Post/Author/DateTime	Post
KoreKore 11-06-06, 02:59 PM	Ok in the adaptations section of the swordsage in ToB it suggests two varients: one which removes light armor and gives unarmed dmg bonus of a monk and another that grants the ability to take arcane spells in place of manuvers of the same level in return for the loss of light armor and a d6 HD. This is all well and good except that I was curious as to what happens if you presteig into the jade phonix mage presteige class as you can technically just be a swordsage withought multiclassing and meet the prereqs for the class. So if you are leveling in that prc what do you do when you gain a spellcasting level as it is you swordsage class that is you casting class technically and you are also gaining manuvers. Is this right or have I gotten something wrong here becasue it seems wrong to be getting more manuvers twice from the same prc. -yes I know I spelled phonix wrong but I don't know how to spell it please answer the question anyway.
KoreKore 11-07-06, 12:39 PM	bump
KoreKore 11-09-06, 03:14 PM	yet another bump. Please someone.
starfire311 11-09-06, 03:24 PM	Are you talking about using the variant that removes light armor and changes D6 to D4 for swordsage and grants arcane spells instead of manevers... I am not familiar with this variant... I would just handle it as normal, when he gets into jade phoenix mage he would get everything that JPM grants, IE advancing a previous spell casting class, in this case swordsage, and granting maneuvers and stances, and all the nifty abilities that go along with it. Seems to me that it wouldn't be too powerful.
Batshido 11-09-06, 03:27 PM	In this case, you wouldn't gain much from Phoenix Mage. Your caster levels for the spell(s) you already know would go up every time you were given a caster level increase. That's pretty much it. Swordsage doesn't actually grant you spellcasting, it just gives you the ability to use spells on occasion. Additional levels of spellcasting from Swordsage amount to zilch. You wouldn't even gain any new maneuvers, since those aren't covered by by the +1 caster level increase. Think of it this way: a bard manages to become an Eldritch Knight. His caster level increases, and he learns new spells but he doesn't gain any new bardic abilities. The Swordsage is the same way. Unfortunately, though, it doesn't actually have any caster levels to increase. This PrC just stunts your growth. You'd be much better off staying Swordsage. Sorry. :(
starfire311 11-09-06, 03:29 PM	In this case, you wouldn't gain much from Phoenix Mage. Your caster levels for the spell(s) you already know would go up every time you were given a caster level increase. That's pretty much it. Swordsage doesn't actually grant you spellcasting, it just gives you the ability to use spells on occasion. Additional levels of spellcasting from Swordsage amount to zilch. You wouldn't even gain any new maneuvers, since those aren't covered by by the +1 caster level increase. Think of it this way: a bard manages to become an Eldritch Knight. His caster level increases, and he learns new spells but he doesn't gain any new bardic abilities. The Swordsage is the same way. Unfortunately, though, it doesn't actually have any caster levels to increase. This PrC just stunts your growth. You'd be much better off staying Swordsage. Sorry. :( looks like I will definatly have to look at this variant, and figure out what you are talking about lol.
Drachasor 11-09-06, 03:31 PM	Are you talking about using the variant that removes light armor and changes D6 to D4 for swordsage and grants arcane spells instead of manevers... I am not familiar with this variant... I would just handle it as normal, when he gets into jade phoenix mage he would get everything that JPM grants, IE advancing a previous spell casting class, in this case swordsage, and granting maneuvers and stances, and all the nifty abilities that go along with it. Seems to me that it wouldn't be too powerful. In the book, ToB, under Adaptions for the Swordsage, it proposes a arcane caster varient. Maneuvers can be Wizard/Sorc spells or standard maneuvers. The Hit Die is changed to a D6 (from D8), and armor proficiency is removed. It is easy to overlook (I imagine a lot of people don't read the "adaptions" section, and certainly this is the most interesting "adaption" section I've ever read). As for the JPM, that's tricky. Technically the +1 Spellcaster class might not apply. I suppose you could make it so it advances Swordsage Maneuvers readied and Maneuvers Known however. So you'd get a crap-load of maneuvers/spells with the JPM. Remember though, the Maneuvers the JPM provides can't be spells. That's the easiest way to handle it that I see. Wether it should advance Stances known is unclear to me. I can see it going either way. Clearly, each level of JPM would then advance Caster Level and Initiater Level, since I believe for the varient Swordsage his Caster Level is the same as his Initiater level -- don't double count JPM levels with the +1 Caster Level, in other words. That's at least how I'd do it.* Of course, that might be pretty powerful. Afterall that's 9th level spells and 9th level (for a character that only advances the varient Swordsage and JPM, worst case he gets 9th level spells at 18th level, best case he gets them at 17th) Maneuvers, though your Spells/Maneuvers known is much smaller than an ordinary caster's or even an typical JPM. That might balance it out...might. -Drachasor *I don't think it would be bad. Worst case you don't have the JPM levels without +1 Caster Level grant improved Caster Level.