Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jeanette 06-14-06, 07:55 PM	I'm relativley new to D&D, creating a character for my second campaign and all that but my biggest problem is that my DM is as new as I am almost and can't help me much with what I need, I basically just want advice on playing a human Bard, weapons and armor and such. All I've got right now is a friend sugested a spiked chain and I'm not too usre how efficent that would be.
Jeanette 06-14-06, 08:21 PM	...I love how helpful you all are
frasmage 06-14-06, 08:27 PM	well, I would suggest you go with vocal performances, it allows you to attack, etc. while inspiring your companions. Go for studded leather at first level and then go chainshirt (mithril works well once you can afford it) I like using a rapier with my bards, but any will do. I would not suggest spike chain on a bard. It requires many feats to be effective and is more built for fighters As for feats, extra song is ESSENTIAL at low levels. There are also many cool performance feat in the eberron campaign setting book, if you have access to that
metamind 06-14-06, 08:31 PM	...I love how helpful you all are Thanks! That's always SO nice to hear! :D A spicked chain you say? Yes, that is a perfect coice for a weapon, although, you must also get the exotic weapon proficientcy (spicked chain) feat to use it without penalty. Also, it can be used with wepon finesse, so if you have high dex low strength, its a great weapon. Or, you can take two weapon fighting and weild double longswords. And have as many daggers as possable, using sleight of hand to hide them, pull them out, and on a succesful feint, BAM! Oh, and are you also looking for an instrument? Here's (http://essentialvermeer.20m.com/music/musicfiles.htm) a great website for mideval instruments. Metamind recommends the archlute. -Lord Metamind
J_Riley 06-14-06, 08:32 PM	http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67002
eRaz0r 06-14-06, 08:36 PM	I'd hate to waste a feat on Extra Song. Since you get one song per day per class level, and they last as long as you keep singing + 5 rounds afterwards, as soon as you hit 4th level you're going to have the ability to get Inspire Courage for as many combats as you're likely to need it, and the other songs are not really worth a feat slot to get more of. I'd suggest that Song of the Heart from the Eberron campaign is almost a must for any Bard. I'd also suggest one of the very first 1st level spells you get hold of is Inspirational Boost (from the Spell Compendium). At 3rd level, my Bard gives his whole party a +3 morale bonus to hit and damage and saves vs fear, 3 times a day, for as long as he can keep singing.
fuzzypants 06-14-06, 08:37 PM	You might get more replies on the "What's a Player to do?" forum.
Morrowner 06-14-06, 09:39 PM	Standard Bard for me is human with all the relevant archer feats and spending the bonus on EWP:Greatbow, Leadership, or Song of the Heart. Human Bard 6 Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, EWP:Greatbow. Use a masterwork horn and the spell Harmony to get a +3 to attacks and damage. Have cat's grace up and go to town. A stranger bard could be this: In the DMG under variant half elves you can make the favored class wizard in exchange for some nice weapon proficiencies. In Unearthed Arcana you get some changes to your spell list which would give you Bull's strength. At 10th level have at least a 16 in Strength and Constitution and a 14 in Charisma(16 with and item boost). Then Bull's Strength yourself and dual wield a +1 Keen Elven Courtblade. 1d10+8 damage plus and bonuses from inspire courage, song of the heart, masterwork horn, and harmony for another 5 damage. 1d10+13 damage criticals at 15-20 for 2d10+26 damage. Have a haste up, too and go to town. I reccomend getting a Mithral interlocking scale male(+6 AC, -3 AC penalty, light so no spell failure, +5 dexterity modifier for later on when you can afford dex boosts and it only weighs 15 pounds) and maybe a floating Extreme shield. Have Alter Self into a troglodyte up, too. You should have a nice armor class and Greater Invisibilty and Displacement give nice miss chances. You could also be a scaled back Aasimar(search WOTC for it), magic blooded, spellcasting prodigy Bard. Try to roll a 17 for your charisma and boost it pronto. Then get a Cloak of Charisma +4. That is a 26 Charisma, 28 for the purposes of bonus spells. Feat Choices as follows: Spellcasting Prodigy, Song of the Heart, Words of Creation, and a feat of your choice . Take offensive spells that hone in on all 3 saves. The buffing from your Inspire Courage will be +7 to attacks and damage. Then when you are done with that use your spells like Glitterdust, Confustion, Ray of Dizziness, and Hold Person/Hold Monster to debuff your foes. Get a Cistern of Mac-Fuindeh(spelling) for a +4 boost on fascinate and suggestion DC, Song of the Heart and your high Charisma make it a DC 27 for your bardic abilities at level 10. All 3 of these poor, weak excuses of builds have worked for me.
CaoSlayer 06-15-06, 03:17 AM	http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67002 umm, ignore that, it is CO, Character Optimization and it is oriented to make the most powerful being posible by raw ignoring roleplaying. Check the link in my sig. it is more oriented to people who wants advice about everything on bard and isnt focused in just the best. Also it is 100% core.
MerlintheTuna 06-15-06, 03:47 AM	umm, ignore that, it is CO, Character Optimization and it is oriented to make the most powerful being posible by raw ignoring roleplaying. Check the link in my sig. it is more oriented to people who wants advice about everything on bard and isnt focused in just the best. Also it is 100% core. Disagreed. From my experience, the CO boards have the most complete knowledge of the rules (thus granting the power to manipulate them to their evil ends), but they know what they're doing. CaoSlayer's guide is a general, bare-bones, sometimes-not-even-correct guide to playing a bard. The Character Optimization link, on the other hand, has a lot of things you can glean from it. Maybe you don't have access to/interest in the Prestige Classes from this-that-and-the-other splatbook; still, it lays out the basic roles of a bard; pick one and stick with it. Generally, the more focused your character is, the more powerful he will turn out. When you choose your feats, think about your character concept as a whole. If you enjoy singing, look at feats with the approach of "How will this make my bardic music more effective or versatile?" If you want to cast a lot of magic, look at things and try to figure out which spells they'd work well with, and whether you'd legitimately USE the ability it grants you. I'm not saying that CaoSlayer's guide is worthless (though I'd look at Ranthanas' first post the most closely -- I'd say he's a lot more accurate in his assertions than Cao, at least regarding the importance of bard stats), but the CO board is a great tool for the occasional tip. My personal advice is twofold. 1.) Don't try to overlap with someone else in the party. Some abilities synergize well; two people with ranks in move silently are bettter than one. On the other hand, some things don't; if you have a rogue with high ranks in Open Lock, don't put ranks into Open Lock. This (and Disable Device) are obvious examples, but look a little deeper if possible. Does your party already have a Barbarian, melee-style rogue, and a monk? Focus on spellcasting instead of on busting out the longsword. As a bard, your job is to cover odds and ends, not to be an understudy. 2.) Use what you have available. Part of this is round-by-round combat -- do something useful each round; sing, cast a spell, fire an arrow, pull out a scroll you may need to use next round... be an active force. Don't hesitate to use your bardic music -- you'll have more than enough uses of it per day after a few levels. On a less-round-by-round basis, use what the class gives you. Example: Bards have whip proficiency. Rest assured that no one else in your group is going to spend a feat to become proficient in the whip. It's a weapon with 15 ft reach that you can use to disarm people. Combined with Weapon Finesse (which you should take if you decide to do much melee combat), the Bard's medium BAB, and the +2 to disarm from the whip, you have a very effective option in battle that other people in your party aren't likely to have. Just as Humans aren't as good as they probably could be if they don't dip in a class (Favored Class: Any), classes aren't living up to their potential if they're not using their class abilities and proficiencies. ***** So basically, what you use for weapons and armor depends on how you want to play your bard. As I said, look at the CO link posted previously and use it to pick your archetype. If you're a ranged attacker, use a (composite) shortbow. If you want to be useful in melee, grab a longsword (and a whip!), if you want to cast a lot of spells, dump your strength a bit harder and use a crossbow when everything fails you. Just think of what you're trying to do with your character before you start making big decisions like which weapons to utilize.
Thurbane 06-15-06, 03:51 AM	...I love how helpful you all are You seriously waited less than half an hour before that response? Welcome to the internet... :rolleyes:
CaoSlayer 06-15-06, 04:56 AM	Disagreed. From my experience, the CO boards have the most complete knowledge of the rules (thus granting the power to manipulate them to their evil ends), but they know what they're doing. CaoSlayer's guide is a general, bare-bones, sometimes-not-even-correct guide to playing a bard. The Character Optimization link, on the other hand, has a lot of things you can glean from it. Maybe you don't have access to/interest in the Prestige Classes from this-that-and-the-other splatbook; still, it lays out the basic roles of a bard; pick one and stick with it. Generally, the more focused your character is, the more powerful he will turn out. When you choose your feats, think about your character concept as a whole. If you enjoy singing, look at feats with the approach of "How will this make my bardic music more effective or versatile?" If you want to cast a lot of magic, look at things and try to figure out which spells they'd work well with, and whether you'd legitimately USE the ability it grants you. I'm not saying that CaoSlayer's guide is worthless (though I'd look at Ranthanas' first post the most closely -- I'd say he's a lot more accurate in his assertions than Cao, at least regarding the importance of bard stats), but the CO board is a great tool for the occasional tip. My personal advice is twofold. 1.) Don't try to overlap with someone else in the party. Some abilities synergize well; two people with ranks in move silently are bettter than one. On the other hand, some things don't; if you have a rogue with high ranks in Open Lock, don't put ranks into Open Lock. This (and Disable Device) are obvious examples, but look a little deeper if possible. Does your party already have a Barbarian, melee-style rogue, and a monk? Focus on spellcasting instead of on busting out the longsword. As a bard, your job is to cover odds and ends, not to be an understudy. 2.) Use what you have available. Part of this is round-by-round combat -- do something useful each round; sing, cast a spell, fire an arrow, pull out a scroll you may need to use next round... be an active force. Don't hesitate to use your bardic music -- you'll have more than enough uses of it per day after a few levels. On a less-round-by-round basis, use what the class gives you. Example: Bards have whip proficiency. Rest assured that no one else in your group is going to spend a feat to become proficient in the whip. It's a weapon with 15 ft reach that you can use to disarm people. Combined with Weapon Finesse (which you should take if you decide to do much melee combat), the Bard's medium BAB, and the +2 to disarm from the whip, you have a very effective option in battle that other people in your party aren't likely to have. Just as Humans aren't as good as they probably could be if they don't dip in a class (Favored Class: Any), classes aren't living up to their potential if they're not using their class abilities and proficiencies. ***** So basically, what you use for weapons and armor depends on how you want to play your bard. As I said, look at the CO link posted previously and use it to pick your archetype. If you're a ranged attacker, use a (composite) shortbow. If you want to be useful in melee, grab a longsword (and a whip!), if you want to cast a lot of spells, dump your strength a bit harder and use a crossbow when everything fails you. Just think of what you're trying to do with your character before you start making big decisions like which weapons to utilize. Funny thing the optimal handbook ever have some non-optimal builds that will result a weaker character than a pure bard, like the ones using eldritch knight a prc that makes a bard weaker (yes, you gain full bab but you lose, skills, spells and songs). Yes, My guide it is 100% intended to be bare boned and simple because it is kinda an iniciation guide, I wrote it when 3.5 came as a guide of how the bard have changed... of course it is greatly outdated and never I agree 100% with the guide since I have learned some new tricks like how to use a whip. Character optimization isnt recomended because as I said it is anything goes and giving new players the idea "the harder you hit, the bigger your ***** is" isnt good, gives you the idea that bard 20 isnt a good build when it is one of the best balanced and powerful ones. Also makes players overhelmed by the huge amount of splatbooks cheese such as the ur-priest sublime chord builds that are based on design plot-holes. As a DM I never would want a new player to see character optimization.