Advice on Scorceror build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Advice on Scorceror build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Krevon
10-05-06, 11:54 PM There is a game going to start that takes pcs from 1st to 21st level. I was looking at playing a Sorceror with the celstial heritage feats.

Never played a Sorceror before, always played a wizard so I thought I'd give it a try. Let me know what you think.
Osedox
10-06-06, 12:28 AM Sounds like a good choice, just be vaery careful about your spell selection, in other words think about other things than direct damage. I would reccomend dropping your familiar, and grabbing up the alternate feature Metamagic Specialist from the Players Handbook 2, if that book is available. By the way what other characters are in your group?
Archangel62
10-06-06, 12:43 AM Well, pick a tactical theme. I'm a fan of focusing on debuffs but that's me. Sorcerers can be great with metamagic and Arcane Thesis.
Iarmeister
10-06-06, 01:50 AM I agree with the previous posts: pick a theme and play it to the hilt. I, too, am playing a sorcerer (7th level + 2 levels in a home-brewed spellfire channeler prc) that has the Celestial Heritage feat(s, more coming...). I'm tying in his spellfire ability (he's actually plane/world jumped to Eberron) with his celestial heritage, and am making most of his offensive spells electrical in nature. For example, I took Scintillating Sphere - which is exactly as fireball except with electricity damage instead of fire damage - as a 3rd level damaging spell, instead of fireball.

Also roleplaying little details, such as his sweat smells slightly of ozone, his eyes flash akin to lightning when angered or suprised (different than when he's charging spellfire attacks), etc...etc...

Since the sorcerer is definitely a more narrowly focused class (read: less versatile) than a wizard, it's really going to come down to how you want to role-play first, and then organizing your feats and spells around that idea, second.

IMO, of course, but I always choose a sorcerer over a wizard because I like the 'fluff' and the inherited/genetic mystery flavor better.

:)
Archangel62
10-06-06, 02:08 AM Electrical spells are a good focus, also the feats can give you some decent area debuffs. I'd also reccomend looking for feats that focus you further on this line.
Iarmeister
10-06-06, 03:14 AM Electrical spells are a good focus, also the feats can give you some decent area debuffs. I'd also reccomend looking for feats that focus you further on this line.

Thanks. I actually decided to focus on electricy becuase part of the Celestial Sorcerer Heritage schtick is receiving a bonus +1 against spells with the petrification and/or electricity descriptor (and receiving those +1's for each celestial sorcerer heritage feat I take. Plus, the whole celestial thing strikes me as constantly being in the air/heavens = clouds/lightning...

...well, now that you can see some of my thinking it should come as no suprise to you that I only have a couple years of college under my belt.

:D
natural_selection
10-06-06, 05:14 AM I think "versatile spellcaster" is a must feat.
Puca
10-06-06, 11:19 AM The heritage feat that lets you convert spells into a cone (I think) of positive energy is a must-have. The damage is pretty darn good at low levels, and with it you free up your spell-selection, having little need to learn a direct-damage area-spell of any level.

Id be wary of getting too boxed in by a theme. It is good flavor, but if you want to be a good caster with this class, you have to focus on the sorcerer-style of versatility, and that means avoid knowing two spells that are too similar.
Iarmeister
10-06-06, 11:38 AM The heritage feat that lets you convert spells into a cone (I think) of positive energy is a must-have. The damage is pretty darn good at low levels, and with it you free up your spell-selection, having little need to learn a direct-damage area-spell of any level.

The heritage feat i think you are referring to is called Celestial Sorcerer Lance. It's actually a 60' line effect that only works against evil-aligned creatures. Damage is good, but it may lack the versatility of which you speak.
LordKudzu
10-06-06, 03:13 PM You might want to take a quick look over in the Future Releases forum at the thread Complete Mage Answers. There looks to be a goldmine of exceptional material for sorcerers and casters of every stripe. Especially Rapid Metamagic which just received confirmation from the author that it does indeed allow for sorcerers to use Quicken Spell.
Tony Vargas
10-06-06, 03:31 PM Never played a Sorceror before, always played a wizard so I thought I'd give it a try. Let me know what you think.Y'know, it arguably takes a more experienced player to make a wizard work than it does to play a sorcerer well, but, if you've played wizards heavily in the past, you might actually have trouble with the sorcerer or find it frustrating (you might instead find it liberating).

It depends on how much you've internalized good wizard strategies - because they're not also good sorcerer strategies.

A good wizard is careful about using up any of his spells. The sorcerer is only careful about using up his highest level slots.

A good wizard tries to avoid going into any situation without gathering as much information as possible, and peparing accordingly. A good sorcerer thinks fast on his feat and reacts well in tactical situations.

A good wizard covets spells and scrollbooks and crafts items as much as is practical in the time and wealth constraints available. The good sorcerer uses whatever items he finds, and buys a few scrolls when they're available.

A good wizard ignores most metamagic - if he needs a spell without a given component, or with a specific elemental damage or area effect or durration, he just picks whichever known spell comes closest, and, if nothing fits the bill, and it's important, researches a new spell. The good sorcerer takes little but metamagic, knowning that it exapands his tactical options with every known spell to which he can aply it.

A good wizard is nearly as apreciated by his party for his array of helpful knowledge skills as he is for his casting. A good sorcerer is as apreciated for his roll as party 'face' or fast-talker, as he is for his spells.

A good wizard's party knows they can come to him with a problem that needs to be solved in a few days, and expect a spell-based solution, even if it has to be totally new. A good sorcerer's party knows that they can count on him to cast spells he's cast on thier behalf before, anytime they really need them.

So if you're good with wizards, and you aply the same strategies to a sorcerer, you won't do so well. You'll be frustrated at your inability to swap out known spells (not to mention waiting an extra level for new spells), waste the few feats you have, overplan in the long term, be unable to react effectively in the short term, and generally let your party down.

OTOH, if you leverage your knowledge /of/ spells, gained from playing a wizard, to pick a good list of known spells for your sorcerer (spell you will likely use often - either every day, or multiple times in a single day when called for, even if not called for that often), and collect a useful array of suplementary scrolls (of spells you might need on rare occassions, and only once on each such occassion), you'll do very well.

The key with a sorcerer is his spells known and feats. Picking these creates the character. It's not enough to pick the class, you have to mold the class to your character concept, and/or to your role in the party (which can likely be slightly narrower than that of a wizard).
Krevon
10-06-06, 11:22 PM What about spells....I have access to the spell compendium, just not until game day. I thought about one of my first level spells be Kelgores Firbolt.
TrajanCavalous
10-08-06, 11:54 AM Tony Vargas, nice post!

For spells the list of Sorceror spells in the back of the PHBII is pretty good.

I'd add from the spell compendium Electric Vengeance (fits your character idea very well), Greater Mage Armor, Voice of the Dragon if you want to socialize or negotiate a lot, Elemental Body also fits your given style and if it is allowed Fleshshiver is mad powerful.

For lower level Wall of Smoke is terrific. A great battlefield control spell for lower level players. Animals and low Int creatures should be loathe to even try going through it.

Arrow Mind is also pretty good, especially in a smaller party. Imho low level casters, including sorcerors, are usually firing a missile weapon much more than slinging spells because in a given day they just have so few spells available.
TB
10-08-06, 02:09 PM Spells like Sleep are really good low level spells, but become mostly worthless above 5th level. I am currently running a sorc. for the first time. And I am having a blast. Using scrolls is a must for me, so take as many ranks as possible on use magic device. For lower level stuff I found that Mage Armor, Stinking Cloud, Glitterdust, Fireball, Haste, Identify, Magic Missle, and Web are the spells I use most often.

My DM likes to throw a lot of invisible things at us, so the Glitterdust is a big help.

Having run a Wiz before, I'm sure you know what spells to pick, just remember that you wont know as many so make choices carefully. AND if you notice one scroll is a bit cheaper than another of the same level. but doesn't cost any gp materials or xp to cast... take the one that is more expensive and buy a couple scrolls of the cheaper.
Krevon
10-08-06, 03:44 PM I am going to pick at least Kelgores Firebolt from PH2 and I plan taking arcane thesis....I also bought complete mage so I'm sure there is something there that will help.
Puca
10-08-06, 04:04 PM The key is planning.
Some spells, like Sleep, can be effective now, but youll dump them later. At every even level after and including 4th, you get to drop a spell-known and replace it with another. (Really, you wont likely start doing this until 6th or so.)

But know which spells you are going to drop. Know it when you pick them. You will probably only swap-out one spell per spell-level.

Mage Armor is another good example. It rocks early on, but later, youll either want to upgrade to Greater Mage Armor, or have a better set of bracers.

Identify is an example of a spell that I wouldnt learn. At 100 gp per casting, Im not going to cast it that often. Unless you really think youre going to cast it so often that the additional 25 gp is going to break you, get a couple of scrolls. They only cost 25% more than if you cast it yourself.

Do you really want to select a spell that maxes out at 5d6 as your Arcane Theses?
Krevon
10-08-06, 04:28 PM No....sorry bout that....I will most likely use it on fireball with bistering spell
ninjarabbit
10-08-06, 04:50 PM Try to avoid spells that overlap in their functions. For example an empowered fireball is as good as a cone of cold and fly might not be a wise choice when you have spells like alter self (averial: winged elf) or polymorph
Grey_Mage
10-08-06, 05:11 PM Spells like Sleep are really good low level spells, but become mostly worthless above 5th level. I am currently running a sorc. for the first time. And I am having a blast. Using scrolls is a must for me, so take as many ranks as possible on use magic device.

*blinks* Apparently so.

Remember... you dont need to use the skill to use a scroll or a wand on your class list- not your spells known, but your class list.
Puca
10-08-06, 05:30 PM *blinks* Apparently so.

Remember... you dont need to use the skill to use a scroll or a wand on your class list- not your spells known, but your class list.
Thats true. If your party has a bard, rogue, cleric, druid, ranger, or paladin, or warlock, or any of a hundred other classes that can fill in a a healer, using their own power or wands, then UMD is really not something a sorcerer should bother with.
solbergb
10-09-06, 12:57 PM It doesn't hurt to get a rank or two of UMD though, just don't go nuts on it.

A UMD of about +5 (you can get that with 1 rank, even at low levels) is enough to activate a wand out of combat most of the time (it only "jams" for a day on a nat 1, and failures don't burn charges).

This means you can help with out of combat healing via CLW wands if the cleric is elsewhere, or do things like "resurgence" on the cleric who rolled a nat 1 on flesh to stone. Assuming non-arcane wands are floating around the party.

As others said....your power is your spells, and the metamagic you have to apply to your spells. Until you have your theme and spell mix, don't even think about anything else about your character. Only when you have the basics nailed down should you think, for example, about PRC qualifications or skill ranks or non-metamagic feats.
Iarmeister
10-09-06, 01:10 PM Also, fear not the useage of magic wands! They're awesome!

For example, a new fully charged wand of magic missle (9th level version), only costs 6,000+ gps. That's 50 shots of 5d4+5 damage that doesn't require an attack roll, and doesn't allow for a SV.

Also, remember, you don't have to purchase a fully loaded wand. You can buy 'used' wands for a great deal less than standard market value of a new one.

I'd highly recommend it, as it will afford you a chance to save some spell slots for when you really need them.
solbergb
10-09-06, 01:48 PM saving spell slots is "wizard thinking".

Sorcerers want wands of stuff that doesn't have caster level or save DC dependencies, because such a wand is essentially a free "spell known".

So a wand of enlarge person or shield might make sense. A wand of charm person doesn't make sense (low save dc = worthless). Something like magic missile is better "in your head" because it's level dependent. A sorc will only run out of magic missiles if he has fired off every other noncantrip slot, which is very, very rare. Most of the time 2.5*level/2 max 17.5 damage isn't enough to be worth a standard action, unless that level of damage will remove an enemy from the battlefield, or unless the fight is more or less won and you're just mopping up.
Iarmeister
10-09-06, 05:53 PM saving spell slots is "wizard thinking".

Sorcerers want wands of stuff that doesn't have caster level or save DC dependencies, because such a wand is essentially a free "spell known".

So a wand of enlarge person or shield might make sense. A wand of charm person doesn't make sense (low save dc = worthless). Something like magic missile is better "in your head" because it's level dependent. A sorc will only run out of magic missiles if he has fired off every other noncantrip slot, which is very, very rare. Most of the time 2.5*level/2 max 17.5 damage isn't enough to be worth a standard action, unless that level of damage will remove an enemy from the battlefield, or unless the fight is more or less won and you're just mopping up.

That is true! Leave it to me to get advice on what to buy from a wizard! :)
psionichamster
10-09-06, 07:47 PM one spell that's DEFINITELY worth getting a wand of is Battering Ram, from the Spell Compendium.

personally, i wouldn't learn it unless going for Argent Savant (a nasty class with a sorcerer), but it's got no save, no real level dependence (excepting range, but read on), and does small damage...but it bullrushes at +10, as a std action, AT RANGE.

it's your "get out of danger" card...for 4500, no sorcerer over like 6-8th lvl should be without it!

namaste'
the hamster
solbergb
10-10-06, 01:26 PM Ok....again....+10 bull rush isn't that much and it isn't likely worth an action for a sorcerer to cast.

If a sorc is in trouble, his best defense is to MOVE. (swift fly perhaps?) His next best defense is to raise a barrier that both protects him and helps the party somehow. Next on the list is some kind of self defense spell that will protect him in multiple rounds....he isn't contributing now, but at least he'll be able to next round.

That's assuming he can't just blast whatever he's threatened by into atoms with high probability of success.

If you want to move an enemy at range, baleful transposition, or the slide spells tend to work better and also work usefully on allies, and in higher levels telekenesis can do it on small targets with a will save or bull rush, whatever you think is most likely to work, at range long. Going higher still, bigby's grasping hand is a useful multipurpose spell that includes bull rush.

for 750gp, a wand of benign transposition might do a better job than any of the above as a "get out of jail free" card with the added bonus of moving the party tank into position to blenderize the opposition.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Krevon 10-05-06, 11:54 PM	There is a game going to start that takes pcs from 1st to 21st level. I was looking at playing a Sorceror with the celstial heritage feats. Never played a Sorceror before, always played a wizard so I thought I'd give it a try. Let me know what you think.
Osedox 10-06-06, 12:28 AM	Sounds like a good choice, just be vaery careful about your spell selection, in other words think about other things than direct damage. I would reccomend dropping your familiar, and grabbing up the alternate feature Metamagic Specialist from the Players Handbook 2, if that book is available. By the way what other characters are in your group?
Archangel62 10-06-06, 12:43 AM	Well, pick a tactical theme. I'm a fan of focusing on debuffs but that's me. Sorcerers can be great with metamagic and Arcane Thesis.
Iarmeister 10-06-06, 01:50 AM	I agree with the previous posts: pick a theme and play it to the hilt. I, too, am playing a sorcerer (7th level + 2 levels in a home-brewed spellfire channeler prc) that has the Celestial Heritage feat(s, more coming...). I'm tying in his spellfire ability (he's actually plane/world jumped to Eberron) with his celestial heritage, and am making most of his offensive spells electrical in nature. For example, I took Scintillating Sphere - which is exactly as fireball except with electricity damage instead of fire damage - as a 3rd level damaging spell, instead of fireball. Also roleplaying little details, such as his sweat smells slightly of ozone, his eyes flash akin to lightning when angered or suprised (different than when he's charging spellfire attacks), etc...etc... Since the sorcerer is definitely a more narrowly focused class (read: less versatile) than a wizard, it's really going to come down to how you want to role-play first, and then organizing your feats and spells around that idea, second. IMO, of course, but I always choose a sorcerer over a wizard because I like the 'fluff' and the inherited/genetic mystery flavor better. :)
Archangel62 10-06-06, 02:08 AM	Electrical spells are a good focus, also the feats can give you some decent area debuffs. I'd also reccomend looking for feats that focus you further on this line.
Iarmeister 10-06-06, 03:14 AM	Electrical spells are a good focus, also the feats can give you some decent area debuffs. I'd also reccomend looking for feats that focus you further on this line. Thanks. I actually decided to focus on electricy becuase part of the Celestial Sorcerer Heritage schtick is receiving a bonus +1 against spells with the petrification and/or electricity descriptor (and receiving those +1's for each celestial sorcerer heritage feat I take. Plus, the whole celestial thing strikes me as constantly being in the air/heavens = clouds/lightning... ...well, now that you can see some of my thinking it should come as no suprise to you that I only have a couple years of college under my belt. :D
natural_selection 10-06-06, 05:14 AM	I think "versatile spellcaster" is a must feat.
Puca 10-06-06, 11:19 AM	The heritage feat that lets you convert spells into a cone (I think) of positive energy is a must-have. The damage is pretty darn good at low levels, and with it you free up your spell-selection, having little need to learn a direct-damage area-spell of any level. Id be wary of getting too boxed in by a theme. It is good flavor, but if you want to be a good caster with this class, you have to focus on the sorcerer-style of versatility, and that means avoid knowing two spells that are too similar.
Iarmeister 10-06-06, 11:38 AM	The heritage feat that lets you convert spells into a cone (I think) of positive energy is a must-have. The damage is pretty darn good at low levels, and with it you free up your spell-selection, having little need to learn a direct-damage area-spell of any level. The heritage feat i think you are referring to is called Celestial Sorcerer Lance. It's actually a 60' line effect that only works against evil-aligned creatures. Damage is good, but it may lack the versatility of which you speak.
LordKudzu 10-06-06, 03:13 PM	You might want to take a quick look over in the Future Releases forum at the thread Complete Mage Answers. There looks to be a goldmine of exceptional material for sorcerers and casters of every stripe. Especially Rapid Metamagic which just received confirmation from the author that it does indeed allow for sorcerers to use Quicken Spell.
Tony Vargas 10-06-06, 03:31 PM	Never played a Sorceror before, always played a wizard so I thought I'd give it a try. Let me know what you think.Y'know, it arguably takes a more experienced player to make a wizard work than it does to play a sorcerer well, but, if you've played wizards heavily in the past, you might actually have trouble with the sorcerer or find it frustrating (you might instead find it liberating). It depends on how much you've internalized good wizard strategies - because they're not also good sorcerer strategies. A good wizard is careful about using up any of his spells. The sorcerer is only careful about using up his highest level slots. A good wizard tries to avoid going into any situation without gathering as much information as possible, and peparing accordingly. A good sorcerer thinks fast on his feat and reacts well in tactical situations. A good wizard covets spells and scrollbooks and crafts items as much as is practical in the time and wealth constraints available. The good sorcerer uses whatever items he finds, and buys a few scrolls when they're available. A good wizard ignores most metamagic - if he needs a spell without a given component, or with a specific elemental damage or area effect or durration, he just picks whichever known spell comes closest, and, if nothing fits the bill, and it's important, researches a new spell. The good sorcerer takes little but metamagic, knowning that it exapands his tactical options with every known spell to which he can aply it. A good wizard is nearly as apreciated by his party for his array of helpful knowledge skills as he is for his casting. A good sorcerer is as apreciated for his roll as party 'face' or fast-talker, as he is for his spells. A good wizard's party knows they can come to him with a problem that needs to be solved in a few days, and expect a spell-based solution, even if it has to be totally new. A good sorcerer's party knows that they can count on him to cast spells he's cast on thier behalf before, anytime they really need them. So if you're good with wizards, and you aply the same strategies to a sorcerer, you won't do so well. You'll be frustrated at your inability to swap out known spells (not to mention waiting an extra level for new spells), waste the few feats you have, overplan in the long term, be unable to react effectively in the short term, and generally let your party down. OTOH, if you leverage your knowledge /of/ spells, gained from playing a wizard, to pick a good list of known spells for your sorcerer (spell you will likely use often - either every day, or multiple times in a single day when called for, even if not called for that often), and collect a useful array of suplementary scrolls (of spells you might need on rare occassions, and only once on each such occassion), you'll do very well. The key with a sorcerer is his spells known and feats. Picking these creates the character. It's not enough to pick the class, you have to mold the class to your character concept, and/or to your role in the party (which can likely be slightly narrower than that of a wizard).
Krevon 10-06-06, 11:22 PM	What about spells....I have access to the spell compendium, just not until game day. I thought about one of my first level spells be Kelgores Firbolt.
TrajanCavalous 10-08-06, 11:54 AM	Tony Vargas, nice post! For spells the list of Sorceror spells in the back of the PHBII is pretty good. I'd add from the spell compendium Electric Vengeance (fits your character idea very well), Greater Mage Armor, Voice of the Dragon if you want to socialize or negotiate a lot, Elemental Body also fits your given style and if it is allowed Fleshshiver is mad powerful. For lower level Wall of Smoke is terrific. A great battlefield control spell for lower level players. Animals and low Int creatures should be loathe to even try going through it. Arrow Mind is also pretty good, especially in a smaller party. Imho low level casters, including sorcerors, are usually firing a missile weapon much more than slinging spells because in a given day they just have so few spells available.
TB 10-08-06, 02:09 PM	Spells like Sleep are really good low level spells, but become mostly worthless above 5th level. I am currently running a sorc. for the first time. And I am having a blast. Using scrolls is a must for me, so take as many ranks as possible on use magic device. For lower level stuff I found that Mage Armor, Stinking Cloud, Glitterdust, Fireball, Haste, Identify, Magic Missle, and Web are the spells I use most often. My DM likes to throw a lot of invisible things at us, so the Glitterdust is a big help. Having run a Wiz before, I'm sure you know what spells to pick, just remember that you wont know as many so make choices carefully. AND if you notice one scroll is a bit cheaper than another of the same level. but doesn't cost any gp materials or xp to cast... take the one that is more expensive and buy a couple scrolls of the cheaper.
Krevon 10-08-06, 03:44 PM	I am going to pick at least Kelgores Firebolt from PH2 and I plan taking arcane thesis....I also bought complete mage so I'm sure there is something there that will help.
Puca 10-08-06, 04:04 PM	The key is planning. Some spells, like Sleep, can be effective now, but youll dump them later. At every even level after and including 4th, you get to drop a spell-known and replace it with another. (Really, you wont likely start doing this until 6th or so.) But know which spells you are going to drop. Know it when you pick them. You will probably only swap-out one spell per spell-level. Mage Armor is another good example. It rocks early on, but later, youll either want to upgrade to Greater Mage Armor, or have a better set of bracers. Identify is an example of a spell that I wouldnt learn. At 100 gp per casting, Im not going to cast it that often. Unless you really think youre going to cast it so often that the additional 25 gp is going to break you, get a couple of scrolls. They only cost 25% more than if you cast it yourself. Do you really want to select a spell that maxes out at 5d6 as your Arcane Theses?
Krevon 10-08-06, 04:28 PM	No....sorry bout that....I will most likely use it on fireball with bistering spell
ninjarabbit 10-08-06, 04:50 PM	Try to avoid spells that overlap in their functions. For example an empowered fireball is as good as a cone of cold and fly might not be a wise choice when you have spells like alter self (averial: winged elf) or polymorph
Grey_Mage 10-08-06, 05:11 PM	Spells like Sleep are really good low level spells, but become mostly worthless above 5th level. I am currently running a sorc. for the first time. And I am having a blast. Using scrolls is a must for me, so take as many ranks as possible on use magic device. blinks Apparently so. Remember... you dont need to use the skill to use a scroll or a wand on your class list- not your spells known, but your class list.
Puca 10-08-06, 05:30 PM	blinks Apparently so. Remember... you dont need to use the skill to use a scroll or a wand on your class list- not your spells known, but your class list. Thats true. If your party has a bard, rogue, cleric, druid, ranger, or paladin, or warlock, or any of a hundred other classes that can fill in a a healer, using their own power or wands, then UMD is really not something a sorcerer should bother with.
solbergb 10-09-06, 12:57 PM	It doesn't hurt to get a rank or two of UMD though, just don't go nuts on it. A UMD of about +5 (you can get that with 1 rank, even at low levels) is enough to activate a wand out of combat most of the time (it only "jams" for a day on a nat 1, and failures don't burn charges). This means you can help with out of combat healing via CLW wands if the cleric is elsewhere, or do things like "resurgence" on the cleric who rolled a nat 1 on flesh to stone. Assuming non-arcane wands are floating around the party. As others said....your power is your spells, and the metamagic you have to apply to your spells. Until you have your theme and spell mix, don't even think about anything else about your character. Only when you have the basics nailed down should you think, for example, about PRC qualifications or skill ranks or non-metamagic feats.
Iarmeister 10-09-06, 01:10 PM	Also, fear not the useage of magic wands! They're awesome! For example, a new fully charged wand of magic missle (9th level version), only costs 6,000+ gps. That's 50 shots of 5d4+5 damage that doesn't require an attack roll, and doesn't allow for a SV. Also, remember, you don't have to purchase a fully loaded wand. You can buy 'used' wands for a great deal less than standard market value of a new one. I'd highly recommend it, as it will afford you a chance to save some spell slots for when you really need them.
solbergb 10-09-06, 01:48 PM	saving spell slots is "wizard thinking". Sorcerers want wands of stuff that doesn't have caster level or save DC dependencies, because such a wand is essentially a free "spell known". So a wand of enlarge person or shield might make sense. A wand of charm person doesn't make sense (low save dc = worthless). Something like magic missile is better "in your head" because it's level dependent. A sorc will only run out of magic missiles if he has fired off every other noncantrip slot, which is very, very rare. Most of the time 2.5*level/2 max 17.5 damage isn't enough to be worth a standard action, unless that level of damage will remove an enemy from the battlefield, or unless the fight is more or less won and you're just mopping up.
Iarmeister 10-09-06, 05:53 PM	saving spell slots is "wizard thinking". Sorcerers want wands of stuff that doesn't have caster level or save DC dependencies, because such a wand is essentially a free "spell known". So a wand of enlarge person or shield might make sense. A wand of charm person doesn't make sense (low save dc = worthless). Something like magic missile is better "in your head" because it's level dependent. A sorc will only run out of magic missiles if he has fired off every other noncantrip slot, which is very, very rare. Most of the time 2.5*level/2 max 17.5 damage isn't enough to be worth a standard action, unless that level of damage will remove an enemy from the battlefield, or unless the fight is more or less won and you're just mopping up. That is true! Leave it to me to get advice on what to buy from a wizard! :)
psionichamster 10-09-06, 07:47 PM	one spell that's DEFINITELY worth getting a wand of is Battering Ram, from the Spell Compendium. personally, i wouldn't learn it unless going for Argent Savant (a nasty class with a sorcerer), but it's got no save, no real level dependence (excepting range, but read on), and does small damage...but it bullrushes at +10, as a std action, AT RANGE. it's your "get out of danger" card...for 4500, no sorcerer over like 6-8th lvl should be without it! namaste' the hamster
solbergb 10-10-06, 01:26 PM	Ok....again....+10 bull rush isn't that much and it isn't likely worth an action for a sorcerer to cast. If a sorc is in trouble, his best defense is to MOVE. (swift fly perhaps?) His next best defense is to raise a barrier that both protects him and helps the party somehow. Next on the list is some kind of self defense spell that will protect him in multiple rounds....he isn't contributing now, but at least he'll be able to next round. That's assuming he can't just blast whatever he's threatened by into atoms with high probability of success. If you want to move an enemy at range, baleful transposition, or the slide spells tend to work better and also work usefully on allies, and in higher levels telekenesis can do it on small targets with a will save or bull rush, whatever you think is most likely to work, at range long. Going higher still, bigby's grasping hand is a useful multipurpose spell that includes bull rush. for 750gp, a wand of benign transposition might do a better job than any of the above as a "get out of jail free" card with the added bonus of moving the party tank into position to blenderize the opposition.