Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Crimeth 01-12-07, 12:08 AM	My friends and I are just starting our very first D&D campaign. Everyone else has their characters class picked out except for me, and I dont know what to choose. Im looking for a spell caster of some sort, as everyone else in our party is either a melee oriented class or a healer oriented class... so what is a good, well rounded caster class for a new player? we are playing by the 3.5 rules or so i hear. Much <3 in advance.
Blazewyrm 01-12-07, 12:09 AM	I'd just go straight wizard, really.
Krevon 01-12-07, 12:11 AM	If you don't want to logistics of wizard then go with a Sorceror.
Ilion 01-12-07, 12:12 AM	I think sorcerer is a bit easier to run, since you don't have to pick which spells to prepare each day, or keep track of which ones you've cast (though you DO have to pick which ones to know each time you gain a level). But if you want to be a bit more versatile, then I agree straight wizard is your best choice.
LiefKarakse 01-12-07, 12:25 AM	I think sorcerer is a bit easier to run, since you don't have to pick which spells to prepare each day, or keep track of which ones you've cast (though you DO have to pick which ones to know each time you gain a level). But if you want to be a bit more versatile, then I agree straight wizard is your best choice. sorcerer is my pick unless you have complete arcane(which im guessing you don't) or is you want to be a melee healer I'd pick pallidian
Crimeth 01-12-07, 12:35 AM	our DM has actually played a little before, and he's borrowing a ****-ton of books. so he MIGHT have complete arcane... can anyone enlighten me on the differences in spells or play styles between the wizard and sorceror?
Ilion 01-12-07, 12:52 AM	A wizard can have a potentially unlimited number of spells in his spell book, but must prepare a very limited number of them for casting each day. A sorcerer knows far fewer spells, but he doesn't have to prepare them. He can cast any spell he knows as long as he has casting slots of the appropriate level left. They learn spells from the exact same list, so there's no difference in which spells they can choose from overall. Also, sorcerers get access to spells of a given spell level a bit later than wizards. A 5th-level wizard can cast 3rd-level spells, but a sorcerer has to wait until 6th level to get access to 3rd-level spells. And didn't anybody at TSR own a thesaurus*? Just how many ways can one rule set use the word "level" anyway? :) *Joke stolen from Order of the Stick
periscope 01-12-07, 02:00 AM	psion is a good one if the DM borrows the EXPANDED PSIONIC HANDBOOK. IF HE GRABS THE ORIGINAL PSIONIC HANDBOOK OR COMPLETE PSIONIC, RUN AND DONT LOOK BACK! The psion is similar to a video game mage, you have power points (PP instead of mana points, MP) and you can use any power you know anytime you want as long as you can pay the cost. If he gets access to Tome of Battle, Crusader or Warblade could be good (Crusader can heal themselves and their party in battle so really good and they are among the simplest to build).
fatal error 01-12-07, 02:20 AM	Since you're just starting out, I'd just stick with the Player's Handbook classes, and go with Sorcerer. Wizard would be fine too, just a bit more "paperwork."
JagAgemo 01-12-07, 02:22 AM	I would suggest erudit, as it is a wiz/soc thing going on but you get psionics and power points not spells. You can potentiality know every psionic power EVER and you can pick the powers you want for that day as you go (but once you pick it you stick to it) If erudit is not available go with psion if not that then sorc if not that then be amazed at how long it takes you to pick your spells each day as a wizard. EDIT: ho yeah, erudit is almost at the end of "COMPLETE PSIONIC" but for the love of any thing you might care for, do not look at any thing else in that book exept for the erudit. pages 153-156
Jaisin 01-12-07, 02:52 AM	A wizard can have a potentially unlimited number of spells in his spell book, You might actually get away with this if you're just starting out, but in reality any DM that lets his wizards run around adding a million spells to his spellbooks is just asking for trouble. Spell scrolls cost money, and scribing them costs money, and money should be tightly controlled to maintain balance. All in all, Wizards will know a few more spells than a Sorcerer, but if the monetary situation and the downtime situations are both handled appropriately, the difference won't be much (mid levels, +6-7 spells per level with the capability of memorizing 3-4 per day per level). I'd go with Sorcerer. If you have access to the Player's Handbook II, search for spells that have an 'immediate action' casting time - lesser deflect, lesser celerity, hesitate, celerity are a few that will allow you to act on your opponent's turn. Also search for 'swift action' casting times to allow more than one spell in a round withou having to resort to Quicken spell. The Sorcerer Alternative Class Feature from the PHBII, Spontaneous Metamagic, combined with Still Spell, Silent Spell, and polymorph or magic jar make for some great combos. Spell Focus (X) and Metamagic School Focus (X) will reduce those to a +0 LA for your spells, and you can cast in alternate forms that way. With Complete Mage, things get stupid - Stalwart Sorcerer w/Spontaneous Metamagic and the Minor Shapeshift Feat allows for flawless transition into Abjurant Champion for levels 11-15. Add in the above feats and you've got a combat monster as a Sorcerer with a dozen dirty tricks (called 'spells'). By then, Versatile Spellcaster Feat (Races of the Dragon) will let you exchange low level spell slots for higher ones. EDIT: Trollshape in this build while throwing around a telekinesis or two into a twisty pile of Evard's black tentacles and having regeneration. . . Might be all moot points, depending on how long your game is going to last, but that's okay. Have fun! -J
CaoSlayer 01-12-07, 04:35 AM	Sorcerer is good always that you understand perfectly which spell to use since if you take one bad, you will be with it in a looong time. So you must read the spells two or three times and be sure if you are going to use it and if there is not any other better and if is going to be useful for your next levels. By example you have magic missile, that is a great level 1 spell but at once is a bad spell for a level 1 sorcerer because the damage it is too little for doing anything so you can use way better color spray that does wonders as a level 1 spell. And then by level 5 you will find magic missiles doing a very decent damage with 3d4+3 while color spray effects will be reduced to "just" a stun. Take spells that are going to be useful by 3-4 levels and remember that you can swamp them later so you can subtitute color spray for something else by level 6.
Puca 01-12-07, 12:06 PM	I also recommend sorcerer, and for the same reasons. This is some heavy-handed advice, but I believe that you want to learn the basics of play before you start exploring all of your options for the sorcerer. Note: This is not the same advice Id give to a more experienced player. Ability Scores: We dont know how you are going to generate them, but arrange them like so: Highest is Charisma. Then Constitution, Dexterity, Intelligence, Strength, Wisdom. Race: Human Skills: Youll probably start with a minimum of 12 skill points. Put 4 skill-points in Bluff and lie to NPCs; Role play is what makes this better than a videogame. Put four in Concentration; this is what helps you when people hit you in the middle of casting a spell. Put the rest of your skill-points into Spot and Listen. These are cross-class (meaning they cost twice as much and you can only have two ranks at level 1, but people will try to sneak up on you, and at low levels, you will actually have a chance to notice.) Feats: Id advise you to take Toughness. Your Hit Points (the amount of damage you can take before you die) will be very low. If you are a human, you get a bonus feat. Id take Point-Blank Shot. It will give you a bonus to hit and damage at close range. Yes, it applies to spells too. Spells known: You know two first-level spells. I would take Mage Armor and Magic Missile. Cast Mage Armor at the beginning or before any combat encounters. (+4 to your Armor Class, which is the measure of how hard it is for opponents to hit you.) Cast Magic Missile at opponents. It is low damage, but always hits. You know 4 cantrips (level-zero spells.) You MUST have Read Magic (so you can read any magical scrolls you find.) I also advise you to take Detect Magic, Light, and Acid Splash. Use Detect Magic to find the good stuff when there is treasure. Use Light when you cant see :) Use Acid Splash when you run out of Magic Missiles. Equipment: No armor or shields. You need a dagger or other small slashing weapon. I would also get a longspear. (Read up on Attacks of Opportunity.) A ranged weapon like a crossbow is not a bad idea either. Just remember your spells hit more often. Even though you have weapons, it is not your job to use them. They are for last resorts or defense only. Dont be afraid to get your ass out of danger when bad guys close in. It is not your job to fight them in melee. If you can afford them, flasks of acid, holy water, tanglefoot bags, are all good to carry around. Most important, have fun. Dont be scared to die. Learn from your mistakes. Make a new character and play again.
Ventifax 01-12-07, 06:36 PM	Ok, that human sorceror build is good advice. Here's another good alternative for a starting player: Elf Wizard. You get to use bows & longswords due to your race, & you get small racial bonuses to Listen & Spot. You also get Scribe Scroll for free, which means down the line you can spend a little gold & XP to have more backup spells written on one-use scrolls, though you don't want to burn too much XP on that. Your primary stat will be Intelligence, then Dexterity & Constitution (in either order, but make sure your Con is at least 12 before the -2 racial modifier, & preferably after), then whatever you want. I agree that Point Blank Shot is a great 1st-level feat for any ranged attacker. You could take Combat Casting instead, but that's not as generally useful for a starting Wizard. (Never mind, at first level, for a starting character, Dodge makes more sense.) Or you could take Alertness, so you do better at Listen & Spot (nice at low levels, but the bonus will mean less at higher levels).
Ventifax 01-12-07, 06:43 PM	Oh, yeah, starting with any caster as your first character is... really hard. The fighting rules, Attacks of Opportunity, etc, are bad enough without trying figure out save DC's (Difficulty Classes) too. I had a character that I'd spent a lot of time on die pointlessly because I didn't understand that there were Attacks of Opportunity. It'll take you a while to get it all, & you will make mistakes. That's OK. It's only a game.
dawnbringer 01-12-07, 06:54 PM	No, a starting wizards should NOT at any time take the alertness feat. He gets it for free while he has a familiar.
megageek12 01-12-07, 07:04 PM	I also recommend sorcerer, and for the same reasons. This is some heavy-handed advice, but I believe that you want to learn the basics of play before you start exploring all of your options for the sorcerer. Note: This is not the same advice Id give to a more experienced player. Ability Scores: We dont know how you are going to generate them, but arrange them like so: Highest is Charisma. Then Constitution, Dexterity, Intelligence, Strength, Wisdom. Race: Human Skills: Youll probably start with a minimum of 12 skill points. Put 4 skill-points in Bluff and lie to NPCs; Role play is what makes this better than a videogame. Put four in Concentration; this is what helps you when people hit you in the middle of casting a spell. Put the rest of your skill-points into Spot and Listen. These are cross-class (meaning they cost twice as much and you can only have two ranks at level 1, but people will try to sneak up on you, and at low levels, you will actually have a chance to notice.) Feats: Id advise you to take Toughness. Your Hit Points (the amount of damage you can take before you die) will be very low. If you are a human, you get a bonus feat. Id take Point-Blank Shot. It will give you a bonus to hit and damage at close range. Yes, it applies to spells too. Spells known: You know two first-level spells. I would take Mage Armor and Magic Missile. Cast Mage Armor at the beginning or before any combat encounters. (+4 to your Armor Class, which is the measure of how hard it is for opponents to hit you.) Cast Magic Missile at opponents. It is low damage, but always hits. You know 4 cantrips (level-zero spells.) You MUST have Read Magic (so you can read any magical scrolls you find.) I also advise you to take Detect Magic, Light, and Acid Splash. Use Detect Magic to find the good stuff when there is treasure. Use Light when you cant see :) Use Acid Splash when you run out of Magic Missiles. Equipment: No armor or shields. You need a dagger or other small slashing weapon. I would also get a longspear. (Read up on Attacks of Opportunity.) A ranged weapon like a crossbow is not a bad idea either. Just remember your spells hit more often. Even though you have weapons, it is not your job to use them. They are for last resorts or defense only. Dont be afraid to get your ass out of danger when bad guys close in. It is not your job to fight them in melee. If you can afford them, flasks of acid, holy water, tanglefoot bags, are all good to carry around. Most important, have fun. Dont be scared to die. Learn from your mistakes. Make a new character and play again. Wtf? Toughness?
travellersside 01-12-07, 08:21 PM	Spells known: You know two first-level spells. I would take Mage Armor and Magic Missile. Cast Mage Armor at the beginning or before any combat encounters. (+4 to your Armor Class, which is the measure of how hard it is for opponents to hit you.) This is very bad advice. While they're good spells, since you're a 1st level caster, they won't be very effective. You should never be using magic missile unless you're at least 5th level. Why? At first level, it's just like having a shortbow that always hits. A couple of times a day. Again, Mage Armour is a very nice spell, but since you'll only have a duration of 1 hour, unless your combats are very close together, you'll waste a lot of slots recasting it. And that's all you did that day. Also, since your AC is only going to be your Dex and Mage Armour, you'll still have a low AC, which means that you've turned a high chance of hitting you into a good chance of hitting you - inefficient and ineffective. Once you've got a few levels behind you, the spell will last long enough, but it's not a good choice for first level. Take either Colour Spray or Sleep - each of these can potentially take out all your enemies. They probably won't, but you'll usually take out at least one enemy per casting - far more effective. Of the 2, Colur Spray is more useful in the long run, while Sleep is more useful right now. Your call. You could even take both and swap one out later. For your second spell, assuming that you didn't just take both the above, you can get a lot of mileage out of Obscuring Mist, Unseen Servant, Hypnotism or Minor Image. There are plenty of other good spells out there, but you'll have to make a choice between doing something flashy but inefficient, or subtle and effective. The worst spells to take are ones which just deal damage. This is because, unless you deal enough damage to take out an enemy, you haven't reduced their ability to harm you. By hindering the enemy, you've made them less effective, and easier for your friends to take down. Which is better: 3/day doing a guaranteed 1D4+1 damage or 3/day causing several enemies to make a save or be completely unable to do anything? To be honest, the sorcerer isn't a good starter class, since it's extremely unforgiving. Unless your DM is very accomodating, if you make bad spell choices, you're pretty much stuck with them for the rest of your life. If you want a spellcaster who zaps things, take a Warmage - it's very good at zapping things, but can't really do anything else. Sorcerers need spells that are extremely flexible and can be adapted to a variety of situations. As a cantrip, take Prestidigitation. If you've got the imagination, it's the best cantrip in the game. Detect Magic is a very good choice. If you've got a good Spellcraft, you have no need for Read Magic at all, but you won't have many skill points, so choose one or the other. Mage Hand is far more useful than you might think - it's a low grade telekinesis after all. Don't want to risk touching something small? Cast Mage Hand. Whatever you do, don't get too attached to your characters - play around with different classes for a while and see what you end up being happy with. You might be surprised.
periscope 01-12-07, 09:37 PM	If you have access to Complete Arcane, a warlock might be good. It doesnt run out of invocations, which are kind of like spells, though you will want to consult the char opt boards Im sure they can turn it into a nuclear weapon.
Kullak-Kobold Sorcerer 01-12-07, 09:41 PM	This is very bad advice. While they're good spells, since you're a 1st level caster, they won't be very effective. You should never be using magic missile unless you're at least 5th level. Why? At first level, it's just like having a shortbow that always hits. A couple of times a day. Again, Mage Armour is a very nice spell, but since you'll only have a duration of 1 hour, unless your combats are very close together, you'll waste a lot of slots recasting it. And that's all you did that day. Also, since your AC is only going to be your Dex and Mage Armour, you'll still have a low AC, which means that you've turned a high chance of hitting you into a good chance of hitting you - inefficient and ineffective. Once you've got a few levels behind you, the spell will last long enough, but it's not a good choice for first level. Take either Colour Spray or Sleep - each of these can potentially take out all your enemies. They probably won't, but you'll usually take out at least one enemy per casting - far more effective. Of the 2, Colur Spray is more useful in the long run, while Sleep is more useful right now. Your call. You could even take both and swap one out later. For your second spell, assuming that you didn't just take both the above, you can get a lot of mileage out of Obscuring Mist, Unseen Servant, Hypnotism or Minor Image. There are plenty of other good spells out there, but you'll have to make a choice between doing something flashy but inefficient, or subtle and effective. Actually, they are very good spells, but campaign dependant. There are two styles of encounters. Rapid and daily. Rapid encounters usually mean you face 4 or more encounters without much time to rest. These encounters are usually equal or weaker than your party. Daily encounters mean you face only one encounter a day, but it is much stronger than your party. When facing weaker opponents, damage dealing is the way to go. The party will over come them quickly, and if you deal damage, you add to finishing encounters without your allies being wounded. In stronger encounters, spells that save or die are usally better. They usually only have a 50% chance of taking out an opponent. When facing 4 opponents, then you are taking out 2 of them. It is worthwhile in those instances. Mage Armor is a nice defensive spell and at an hour duration, it is great at first level for a dungeon enviroment. Don't be afraid to ask if the campaign will be dungeon or nature oriented. The worst spells to take are ones which just deal damage. This is because, unless you deal enough damage to take out an enemy, you haven't reduced their ability to harm you. By hindering the enemy, you've made them less effective, and easier for your friends to take down. Which is better: 3/day doing a guaranteed 1D4+1 damage or 3/day causing several enemies to make a save or be completely unable to do anything? This is false. IF an opponent makes it's save, you do nothing to the opponent. If you deal damage, you are doing SOMETHING to the opponent. If you have a 4 member party at first level, and a Cleric casting Cause Light Wounds and you cast Missle, you have a good chance of killing that opponent in one round. The Rogue should attack first and kill one opponent, and the Fighter type should kill an opponent if he hits. If you figure both characters have a 50% hit chance as a first level challenge, that means you should kill two opponents a round at first level. This is likely. With a save or die spell, you would have 50% chance of taking out one opponent. You COULD take out two opponents or you could take out none. It is gambling. Sure things such as Magic Missle is not a wasted spell by any means. To be honest, the sorcerer isn't a good starter class, since it's extremely unforgiving. Unless your DM is very accomodating, if you make bad spell choices, you're pretty much stuck with them for the rest of your life. If you want a spellcaster who zaps things, take a Warmage - it's very good at zapping things, but can't really do anything else. Sorcerers need spells that are extremely flexible and can be adapted to a variety of situations. As a cantrip, take Prestidigitation. If you've got the imagination, it's the best cantrip in the game. Detect Magic is a very good choice. If you've got a good Spellcraft, you have no need for Read Magic at all, but you won't have many skill points, so choose one or the other. Mage Hand is far more useful than you might think - it's a low grade telekinesis after all. Don't want to risk touching something small? Cast Mage Hand. Whatever you do, don't get too attached to your characters - play around with different classes for a while and see what you end up being happy with. You might be surprised. While the sorcerer class can be unforgiving if you take bad spell choices, it can be just as bad to take cerrtain actions during combat. I have played a sorcerer before and would recommend the following: Human Sorcerer is a nice choice for the extra feat. Toughness is 3 extra HP, which is almost double your Hit Points. While you could use the feat for something better later on, but you need to survive to get to later on. Scribe Scroll can be useful as a first level feat (for extra spells per day). They are 12 1/2 gp and 2 experience points each. Your first adventure should give you enough money for almost 20 first level spells if you make them (or 10if you buy them). Improved Inititive is also nice because acting first means you can damage your opponents before they damage you (hopefully killing them if your party also chooses Improved Inititiveor has high Dex scores). Don't bother if everyone has low Dex scores. Point Blank Shot is also nice for the +1 to Hit. It also leads into Precise Shot which eliminates the -4 penalty to hit with Ray (ranged) spells. Not alll ranged spells need to roll a to hit die, so just consider that if you take Magic Missle, you don't need Point Blank Shot. If you take Ray spells like Orb of Acid, you may. At 2nd level you can take Scorching Ray (a high damage ray spell), it may be worth the investment. Lastly, Spell Focus if you are going to choose save or die spells. Every point helps. If you are going to gamble, gamble if the advanatge is towards you. As for spells at first level: Magic Missle and Mage Armor for a Dungeon adventure, Burning Hands/Color Spray (depending if you prefer damage or save and die spells) and Obscuring Mist for a nature campaign. At 2nd level take Feather Fall. Also all traps from 1st to 10th level involve pits or things falling on you. This means you will take less damage. By the time you get to flying opponents (5th level) you may end up falling a lot. At first level, 0 level spells Read Magic and Light are essential for a Human Sorcerer. If you have Darkvision, you don't need Light. You usually don't get magic at first level, but what you do is obvious, like Scrolls, so you can wait til 2nd level for Detect Magic. Acid Splash is a good choice so you have another spell to cast as an attack spell. It doesn't do much damage, but it is better than shooting a crossbow because you will hit more often. If you have a stealth Rogue, Message can be very nice. Talk to him 60 feet ahead of you and create an ambush when your rogue runs back to you after he attacks the opponents. Touch of Fatigue is also nice becuase it gives an opponent a -1 to hit, damage, and AC. Two hits with it make the penalty -3. If you are creative, Ghost Sound and Dancing Lights can be very good, but if this is your DMs first game as well, he will probably be very direct with his adventure and go with a dungeon. Icf you decide to take damage spells, Empower and Maximimize spell will be good feats at later levels. If he allows it, Energy Substitution is very nice. At higher levels Acid is your best choice. Although almost everything has resistance to Acid at high levels, almost nothing has Immunity to Acid. As far as skills, Concentration, Spellcraft, and Bluff are your best choices. If you have more than 3 skill points per level, consider additional languages or anything you think you would like. Charisma based skills are good since you have a high Charisma anyways. Skills like Disguise and Diplomacy are useful. (There are spells that allow you to change shape and give a bonus to Disguise rolls, usually +10, so having some points is better than none. Combined with Bluff allow you to be a pretty good spy.)
Puca 01-13-07, 12:00 AM	My advice was shaped by my impression of the needs of the OP. He is new to the game. This is his first character. It also sounds like everyone else he is playing with is just as new. I assumed almost complete ignorance of the basic rules of the game. Toughness is a shite feat. Three bonus hit-points are the least of your worries. I have never taken it. But, I know how to play a caster. I know how to use a five-foot step to get out of trouble, how to use my allies as soft cover, and a myriad of other strategies to drastically reduce my chances of getting hit in the first place. I dont think he does yet. It was my opinion that he would have more fun if he survived the first encounter. I know Magic Missile does crap damage. Personally, I dont take it until Im getting at least two missiles in a casting, and probably even later than that. But hes never played before. We could try to explain to him every possible contingency he could encounter and how to try to deal with all of them with 6 spells-known, but I decided to suggest the one spell that no matter what is going to hit and give him a chance to roll some damage dice. I also suggested Acid Splash. I wanted to contrast the always-hit nature of the Magic Missile with another ranged attack that required an attack-roll. Direct damage is not really the best way to go. But the other ways to go require a lot greater handle on how to be effective, and that in turn required a great deal of knowledge about the game rules, which I assumed he did not have. Grease for example is a standard spell for a sorcerer Id play. But using it to set the rogue up for SA requires the player, the DM, and the rogue to all understand the mechanics of balancing and loss of Dex. Using it to get out of grapples or make an enemy unable to charge are really pointless when the DM hasnt a handle on charging or grappling. I could give a dozen similar examples. Mage Armor does last only an hour. But first-level adventures dont last long, and a sorcerer can recast it. +4 to your AC, with a decent Dex, and youve likely got one of the best ACs on the field. Sleep and Color Spray, incidentally, were not good suggestions. Sleep is a longer casting time and will be useless in a variety of situations. Color Spray may be an effective save-or-die, but with a range of 15 feet and the fact that it affects your allies if they are exactly where they are supposed to be, i.e between you and the guy trying to kill you, it is a save-and-you-die spell. Taking both of them as your only level-one spells-known is a very poor idea since they are ineffective against some of the same exact things. Minor Image is a great first-level spell because it is so open to character creativity, but figments are some of the hardest things to do well, and the hardest things for a new DM to adjudicate. I gave him very simple clear advice that I thought would help him survive his first encounter and enable him to contribute with his spells in pretty much any circumstance. As a final piece of advice, I would warn against pouring through a half dozen splat books trying to find all the neat stuff to make a better caster. No one is ever going to play a great caster until they master the basics, and those are found in the core books. Walk first; then run.
Jaisin 01-13-07, 12:41 AM	I'm beginning to see the logic behind taking another class entirely, and if so, I'd recommend Cleric - you can't go wrong with Cleric - even your feat choices don't matter much. But, I'm enjoying the discussion about the Sorcerer way too much; let's keep it going because everyone's ideas here are great in one respect or another. Scribe scroll = no. This is what your excess funds and party wizard are for, the last thing you need as a Sorcerer are more spells that you already know! With starting money, buy a few 1st level scrolls - mage armor, summon monster I, shield to name a few. Shield is essential as either one of your spell choices, a wand or scrolls on hand to save you from your enemy's magic missiles. Toughness = no. STAY AWAY FROM THE FRONT LINES. With a developed sorcerer build like the one I stated before, utilizing Complete Mage, PHB II, and Complete Arcane, you'd be able to get away with it once in a while, and eventually most of the time, but at early levels? STAY AWAY FROM THE FRONT LINES. The argument that you need to get to higher levels is reasonably valid, however, you should be able to use a light crossbow and a reach weapon to keep enemies at bay if your fighters are not doing their jobs. Point Blank Shot/Precise Shot = no. Great selections for Warlocks and their infinite eldritch blast that also hold invocations; limited use for a Sorcerer. Stay away from spells that need attack rolls, and you won't miss these at all. WotC has done a tremendous job of convincing D&D players that a Sorcerer is a blaster, fire-wielder, or some other such narrow specialist because they have so many spells per day, and they should be able to cause the most damage. This is also why the Bard is one of the most overlook classes in the game due to its power. Sorcerers can become some of the most efficient enchanters, spies, and snipers in the game. However, they truly shine as battlefield controllers - even more so than mages - if their spells are taken wisely. With the options and feats that I mentioned in my previous post, the sorcerer becomes the ultimate artist. His spells are his paints and the battlefield is his canvas. He needs nothing but his own creativity to be one of the most incredible assets to a functioning team of adventurers. Here's a build for your perusal, using most of the resources available out there: Human Sorcerer 1 hp- 6 AC- 11 Spontaneous Metamagic in lieu of Familiar (PHB II) Stalwart Sorcerer (Complete Mage) * gives +2hp per Sorcerer level * Free Martial Weapon Proficiency (take something with a high critical range, or something with a high damage output - one handed, or composite longbow) * Free Weapon Focus with above weapon * Reduces the number of spells known of your highest level by one, giving you one less 1st level spell known Flaws - pick two, I'd recommend Murky-eyed, and Shaky; you must roll twice with attacks against foes with concealment and take the worse roll, and all of your ranged attacks are -2. Obviously, if you chose the composite longbow above, change this. Flaws are in Unearthed Arcana. Feats 1st- Arcane Disciple - War Domain Human- Apprentice - Spellcaster (DMG II): grants one extra spell known to a sorcerer, and allows him to swap a spell known for a different one at every level. Also grants one Knowledge skill (choose Religion) and USE MAGIC DEVICE as class skills for the Sorcerer. All for a minor stipend of 100gp per level. Flaw 1- Versatile Spellcaster - change lower level spell slots for higher level spells (Races of the Dragon) Flaw 2- Precocious Apprentice - arcane turmoil (Complete Mage) a targeted dispel magic that removes a spell from an opponent's memory! Abilities (using the elite array) Str- 8, Dex- 13, Con- 10, Int- 12, Wis- 14, Cha- 15 Skills: Concentration 4 Ranks, Use Magic Device 4 Ranks, KS: Religion 4 Ranks (for Arcane Disciple), Spellcraft 4 Ranks. Spells: 0th (5/day)- read magic, acid splash, detect magic, daze 1st (4/day)- power word - pain (Races of the Dragon) OR color spray, magic weapon (D), benign transposition (Spell Compendium) 2nd (1/day)- arcane turmoil (Complete Mage) Starting Funds (120gp): shield x2, summon monster I, mage armor (100gp) Dagger and weapon of choice from above EDIT: Stalwart Sorcerer gives you an effective +4 CON for hp purposes, you have dispel magic at level 1, a spell that has no save and can cause 17d6 points of damage to an enemy close by (power word pain), +1 1st level spell from Apprentice, +1 spell known per level from Arcane Disciple. By level 9, when you choose Minor Shapeshift as your feat, you can have +36hp, divine power (hence the 14 Wisdom), and perhaps regeneration from a spell like trollshape - making you a frontline fighter in a pinch, especially with benign transposition to swap out fighters to your healbot. UMD allows you to overcome wards, glyphs, etc, as well as letting you use items restricted to other classes like wands of cure X wounds. Versatility baby, versatility - you'll be indespensible to a party.