Advice to create a good Enchanter [Archive] - Wizards Community

Advice to create a good Enchanter [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ioosef
02-04-07, 07:07 PM I want to create a good Enchanter, but I don't usually make arcane spell casters. He's starting at level 17 with average money, and I need advice as to feats, spells (besides stuff like hold/dominate person, suggestion and the likes), may be classes/PrCs, races, items, etc.
I was thinking of doing something along the lines of Gray Elf wizard 7/Master Specialist 10.
Also, you could lease site source if it's not from the core books?
MerlintheTuna
02-04-07, 07:47 PM One of the easy traps that people fall into when making Enchantment-focused characters is to take levels in the Mindbender class from CArcane. Don't. Or rather, take the first level if you can squeeze it in, and don't even think about taking the second regardless of anything else.

Also, if you're not big on arcane casters, you could try starting as a Psion and going into Thrallherd. Info on both classes is available in the SRD.
Tyhm
02-04-07, 08:41 PM Oof...my advice, surrender now. Level 17? Emphasis on Enchantment: Mind-Affecting?
If your DM really, really loves putting you up against abysmally dumb fleshies, you MIGHT have a chance, but I present for your consideration, The Math.
1) Undead, Constructs, Plants, and Oozes are all immune. Right off the bat, 4 of (what I consider to be) The More Interesting Creature Types you can't do a bloody thing with.
2) Your DC: 10+SL+Key Attribute, hopefully +1 Spell Focus (Enchantment). On a 9th level spell, with a Key of 26 (for +8), you get a respectable 27, maybe a 28. Their save: either 2+1/2 HD+Wis, or 1/3 HD+Wis. I invite you to glance through some CR17 monsters. How many have 30-some HD? How many have below-average wisdom?
Now, I am in fact being unnecessarily cruel here: If your DM throws you up against a Level 20 Swashbuckler Human, he'll have maybe a +9 to save against Will and will quite probably fail to even escape Charm Person; but if you hope to be any use at all against the Wyrm Red Dragon, you'll need to diversify.
3) The Many Immunizations. Even if a creature is not by Type immune to enchantment mind-affecting, many are Anyway. None come immediately to mind (some outsiders I've encountered but don't recall the names of), but I've seen them - and that's assuming he doesn't start playing with spells like Protection Against Good, or the Ring from DMG2.
4) SR. Pretty sure every single enchantment spell offers it. You're gonna want both Spell Vulnerability and Assay Spell Resistance, two very nice level 3 spells, both in Spell Compendium.

If you want to be a good enchanter, it isn't enough to know Monstrous Thrall is the one compulsion that doesn't give the victim infinite chances to break free utterly (as a 9th level spell, by Gygax) - you need to think what your backup plan's gonna be when you can't break their SR (or spell immunity, or enchant immunity). You gotta be an enchanter/disjuncter/debuffer/nuker/teleporter/summoner with cohorts, or something.
The_Shaman
02-04-07, 10:30 PM Well, imo you could go for an enchanter-specialized wizard and get some other spells in case you need them, or you could just go beguiler. IMO the beguiler is a very decent enchanter if you want to specialize in this school, but it's poorer than the specialist wizard in having other spells. However, you will probably know more spells and have spontaneous casting, and with a few wisely applied illusions and shadow spells you could be quite effective.

As others posted, at that level you can't do it all. Doesn't mean you can't help the group, though.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ioosef 02-04-07, 07:07 PM	I want to create a good Enchanter, but I don't usually make arcane spell casters. He's starting at level 17 with average money, and I need advice as to feats, spells (besides stuff like hold/dominate person, suggestion and the likes), may be classes/PrCs, races, items, etc. I was thinking of doing something along the lines of Gray Elf wizard 7/Master Specialist 10. Also, you could lease site source if it's not from the core books?
MerlintheTuna 02-04-07, 07:47 PM	One of the easy traps that people fall into when making Enchantment-focused characters is to take levels in the Mindbender class from CArcane. Don't. Or rather, take the first level if you can squeeze it in, and don't even think about taking the second regardless of anything else. Also, if you're not big on arcane casters, you could try starting as a Psion and going into Thrallherd. Info on both classes is available in the SRD.
Tyhm 02-04-07, 08:41 PM	Oof...my advice, surrender now. Level 17? Emphasis on Enchantment: Mind-Affecting? If your DM really, really loves putting you up against abysmally dumb fleshies, you MIGHT have a chance, but I present for your consideration, The Math. 1) Undead, Constructs, Plants, and Oozes are all immune. Right off the bat, 4 of (what I consider to be) The More Interesting Creature Types you can't do a bloody thing with. 2) Your DC: 10+SL+Key Attribute, hopefully +1 Spell Focus (Enchantment). On a 9th level spell, with a Key of 26 (for +8), you get a respectable 27, maybe a 28. Their save: either 2+1/2 HD+Wis, or 1/3 HD+Wis. I invite you to glance through some CR17 monsters. How many have 30-some HD? How many have below-average wisdom? Now, I am in fact being unnecessarily cruel here: If your DM throws you up against a Level 20 Swashbuckler Human, he'll have maybe a +9 to save against Will and will quite probably fail to even escape Charm Person; but if you hope to be any use at all against the Wyrm Red Dragon, you'll need to diversify. 3) The Many Immunizations. Even if a creature is not by Type immune to enchantment mind-affecting, many are Anyway. None come immediately to mind (some outsiders I've encountered but don't recall the names of), but I've seen them - and that's assuming he doesn't start playing with spells like Protection Against Good, or the Ring from DMG2. 4) SR. Pretty sure every single enchantment spell offers it. You're gonna want both Spell Vulnerability and Assay Spell Resistance, two very nice level 3 spells, both in Spell Compendium. If you want to be a good enchanter, it isn't enough to know Monstrous Thrall is the one compulsion that doesn't give the victim infinite chances to break free utterly (as a 9th level spell, by Gygax) - you need to think what your backup plan's gonna be when you can't break their SR (or spell immunity, or enchant immunity). You gotta be an enchanter/disjuncter/debuffer/nuker/teleporter/summoner with cohorts, or something.
The_Shaman 02-04-07, 10:30 PM	Well, imo you could go for an enchanter-specialized wizard and get some other spells in case you need them, or you could just go beguiler. IMO the beguiler is a very decent enchanter if you want to specialize in this school, but it's poorer than the specialist wizard in having other spells. However, you will probably know more spells and have spontaneous casting, and with a few wisely applied illusions and shadow spells you could be quite effective. As others posted, at that level you can't do it all. Doesn't mean you can't help the group, though.