Advice: Accomplished Swashbuckler PrC [Archive] - Wizards Community

Advice: Accomplished Swashbuckler PrC [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
calebhand
08-30-07, 09:02 PM I made up this Prc after reading a bunch of others posts on the Swashbuckler vs Unfettered vs Duelist etc. I thought I'd try my hand at making a PrC by pulling from a bunch of sources. Given that it's my first time making a PrC, I'd like some comments on it. Thanks.

Accomplished Swashbuckler Prestige Class
Hit Die: d8

Requirements
BAB: +8
Skills: Balance 3 ranks, Bluff 5 ranks, Climb 3 ranks, Tumble 5 ranks, Use Rope 2 ranks
Feats: Combat Expertise, Weapon Finesse
Special Abilities: Evasion

Skills
Skill Points: 4 + Int bonus
Class Skills: Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Jump (Str), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Perform (Cha), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex) and Use Rope (Dex).

Level Base Attack Bonus Fortitude Save Reflex Save Will Save AC Bonus Special
1 +1 +2 +2 +0 +1 Razor’s Edge, Parry
2 +2 +3 +3 +0 +1 Bonus feat, Grace +1
3 +3 +3 +3 +1 +2 Swashbuckler’s Guile 1
4 +4 +4 +4 +1 +2 Riposte, Uncanny Dodge
5 +5 +4 +4 +1 +2 Duelist Insight
6 +6/+1 +5 +5 +2 +3 Special Ability, Swashbuckler’s Guile 2
7 +7/+2 +5 +5 +2 +3 Parry ranged attacks
8 +8/+3 +6 +6 +2 +3 Improved Flanking, Luck
9 +9/+4 +6 +6 +3 +4 Thousand Cuts
10 +10/+5 +7 +7 +3 +4 Parry magic

Class Features
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: All simple and martial weapons, and exotic weapons that Weapon Finesse applies to. Light armor and bucklers.
Armor Class Bonus (Ex): When wearing Light armor or no armor and using a buckler or no shield, the Accomplished Swashbuckler gains a special dodge bonus to Armor Class that increases every three levels.
Razor’s Edge (Ex): An Accomplished Swashbuckler may use any piercing weapon that is useable with Weapon Finesse as a slashing weapon if desired.
Parry (Ex): An armed Accomplished Swashbuckler uses his skill and training to judge the timing of an opponent’s incoming strike and how to block it. The Accomplished Swashbuckler adds his Intelligence modifier to his Armor Class against a single opponent in a given round, although this bonus can never exceed the Accomplished Swashbuckler’s class level. This ability only works against melee attacks and only against attacks the Accomplished Swashbuckler is aware of; he cannot parry an invisible opponent. This bonus only applies if the Accomplished Swashbuckler is wearing light or no armor, using a buckler or no shield, and using a weapon with Weapon Finesse.
Bonus Feats: At 2nd level, the Accomplished Swashbuckler gets a bonus feat. This is in addition to the feats characters normally get every third level. The bonus feat must come from the following list or have DM approval:
· PHB: Acrobatic, Agile, Athletic, Blind-Fight, Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Trip, Whirlwind Attack, Combat Reflexes, Deft Hands, Mobility, Spring Attack, Improved Critical, Improved Initiative, Improved Unarmed Strike, Lightning Reflexes, Persuasive, Quick Draw, Two Weapon Fighting, Two Weapon Defense, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization,)
· Complete Warrior: Arterial Strike, Dash, Defensive Strike, Flick of the Wrist, Greater Two Weapon Defense, Hamstring, Improved Buckler Defense, Improved Combat Expertise, Improved Two Weapon Defense, Karmic Strike, Power Critical
· Complete Adventurer: Combat Intuition, Danger Sense, Deft Strike, Dual Strike, Expert Tactician, Goad, Staggering Strike
· PHBII: Acrobatic Strike, Combat Acrobat, Combat Tactician, Robilar’s Gambit, Telling Blow, Tumbling Feint, Combat Cloak Expert, Combat Panache, Einhander
Grace (Ex): At 2nd level, an Accomplished Swashbuckler gains a +1 competence bonus to Reflex saving throws while wearing light or no armor.
Swashbuckler’s Guile (Ex): At 3rd level, an Accomplished Swashbuckler has perfected the ability to make use of his daring actions. After performing certain cinematic maneuvers, the Accomplished Swashbuckler may add a +2 bonus to his next attack OR add 1d6 damage to his next attack. This bonus increases to +4 or 2d6 at 6th level. This bonus only applies if the Accomplished Swashbuckler is wearing light or no armor, using a buckler or no shield, and using a weapon with Weapon Finesse. The following are examples of the required cinematic maneuvers and the DM may approve others:
· A successful tumble check to avoid attack of opportunity
· A successful balance check when standing on a surface that requires one (such as on a pitching deck of a ship or tight rope)
· A successful long jump of at least 10’
· A successful high jump of at least 3’
· A successful climb check to move at least 10’
· A successful bluff check to feint in combat
· A successful intimidate check to cower an opponent
· A successful disarm attempt
· A successful trip attempt
· An intentional drop of more than 10’ before striking opponent
· A successful hit using the Riposte ability (only the damage bonus allowed here since the hit has already been made
Riposte (Ex): At 4th level the Accomplished Swashbuckler learns to take advantage of his opponents’ mistakes. If an opponent misses the Accomplished Swashbuckler in melee combat, the opponent provokes an attack of opportunity from the Accomplished Swashbuckler. This ability only applies if the Accomplished Swashbuckler is wearing light or no armor, using a buckler or no shield, and using a weapon with Weapon Finesse.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 4th level, the Accomplished Swashbuckler gains the Uncanny Dodge ability as a Rogue. If the Accomplished Swashbuckler already has Uncanny Dodge from a different class, the ability is automatically changed to Improved Uncanny Dodge.
Duelist Insight (Ex): At 5th level an Accomplished Swashbuckler may choose to use his Int bonus to add to any attacks OR damage made with a weapon that uses Weapon Finesse. This bonus may not exceed half the Accomplished Swashbuckler’s class level (rounded down). If the Accomplished Swashbuckler chooses to use it for damage, this damage does not affect creatures that are normally immune to sneak attacks and critical hits (such as undead, constructs, etc.). This bonus only applies if the Accomplished Swashbuckler is wearing light or no armor, using a buckler or no shield, and using a weapon with Weapon Finesse.
Special Ability: At 6th level, an Accomplished Swashbuckler may choose from the special abilities a Rogue may choose from at 10th level. This includes the option of gaining a feat instead, although it must be chosen from the feat listed for the 2nd level bonus feat.
Parry Ranged Attacks (Ex): A 7th level Accomplished Swashbuckler can choose to add his Intelligence modifier to his Armor Class against a single foe who is using ranged attacks against him in a given round. It works only against attacks the Accomplished Swashbuckler is aware of—he can’t parry an invisible opponent—and only against physical attacks (not spells or spell-like abilities) that the DM deems the Accomplished Swashbuckler could knock away with his weapon. For example, a human Accomplished Swashbuckler could not parry a boulder rolling down a hill or fired from a catapult. This bonus only applies if the Accomplished Swashbuckler is wearing light or no armor, using a buckler or no shield, and using a weapon with Weapon Finesse.
Improved Flanking (Ex): An 8th level Accomplished Swashbuckler has learned to capitalize when fighting opposite an ally. The Accomplished Swashbuckler gets +4 instead of +2 when flanking.
Luck (Ex): An 8th level Accomplished Swashbuckler has the luck of the action hero and therefore may re-roll any d20 roll once per day. The second roll must be used no matter the result.
Thousand Cuts (Ex): A 9th level Accomplished Swashbuckler can take advantage of the cinematic moves for a flurry of strikes. Any time the Accomplished Swashbuckler meets the requirement for Swashbuckler’s Guile the Accomplished Swashbuckler may double the normal number of attacks that round. The Thousand Cuts ability may only be used twice per encounter and after using it even once the Accomplished Swashbuckler must rest for 10 minutes. This ability only applies if the Accomplished Swashbuckler is wearing light or no armor, using a buckler or no shield, and using a weapon with Weapon Finesse.
Parry Magic (Ex): A 10th level Accomplished Swashbuckler gains the ability to avoid spells in a manner similar to, but not as well as, a mage blade. He must have a magic weapon in hand to parry a spell. Only spells targeting the Accomplished Swashbuckler alone can be parried—not area spells or spells targeted elsewhere. Spells that do not allow a saving throw cannot be parried. The Accomplished Swashbuckler makes an attack roll opposed by the caster’s caster power check. If the Accomplished Swashbuckler’s roll is higher, he gains a +4 competence bonus on the saving throw against the spell. The Accomplished Swashbuckler can parry only spells he is aware of; spells from invisible casters or mental-action only spells cannot be parried and cannot parry more than one spell in a round. This ability only applies if the Accomplished Swashbuckler is wearing light or no armor, using a buckler or no shield, and using a weapon with Weapon Finesse.
bkdubs123
08-30-07, 10:00 PM I WILL comment on this, but I've gotta go for the night, so I'll get back to this tomorrow. (That and write up my Blade Binder, kick off my Tome of Magic expansion project, and start on Racial Substitution Levels for my Swashbuckler!) Tomorrow should be eventful!
bkdubs123
08-31-07, 01:21 AM Whoopses. Okay, time for comments (I know I said I wouldn't get to it until tomorrow, buuuttt.... I lied.

First of all, fix the table. Its crazy right now.

Second. Actual constructive criticism. I like it. I like that many different classes could potentially take this PrC, that helps with variety of character builds. I feel like (and this might sound hypocritical) this class has perhaps too much going on... I think the reason I say that is because the class gets a BUNCH of different abilities tossed together, all of which seem like they should progressively get stronger, when only one does. You have Grace and Uncanny Dodge, 1 Bonus Feat, 1 Special Ability and Luck. It just feels like a bunch of classes brutally cut into pieces and thrown on top of each other (that sounded a lot more abrasive than I meant it to). Conversely the Parry mechanic seems like it doesn't need split into three seperate abilities. I suppose you could argue that they are all seperate skills, but in the DnD world I think its not too much of a stretch to say that if you can parry one attack you can parry them all.

Swashbuckler's Guile is the big original ability here and shows some real promise. The cinematic style here could really be played up, but I can see why it wasn't for the way the class is set up. But its an idea if maybe you want to rehash the class as presented.

Finally, I feel like A Thousand Cuts is out of place here, at least as written. Why do they spontaneously get the ability to make a buttload of attacks because they did something that looks cool? You can either make a bunch of attacks or you can't. One way I could see it working is if they had to use the total defense action before they could Thousand Cuts. Kind of like coiling up a spring and then unleashing it.

I like the general idea here. Make swashbuckling viable for other classes (something the Duelist didn't do a very good job with). But the execution does need some work.

Please though, get some other feedback before you go changing everything. I myself tend to make very clockwork PrCs and just because you didn't follow my sort of forumulae doesn't necessarily make this wrong by any means.
Athaal
08-31-07, 04:55 AM I really like the cinematic ides for bonus damage or attack bonus; it adds some real flavour to the class. But, yes i agree with bkdubs in saying that you have to much going on. I personally would remove either the bonus feat or special ability and expand the Swashbucklers Guile ability. Also if most of the options for the bonus damage revolove around feint, tumbles, balance checks and jumps, put some circumstance bonuses in those abilities. Maybe 'Intuitive Skills'? (deja vu bkdubs)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
calebhand 08-30-07, 09:02 PM	I made up this Prc after reading a bunch of others posts on the Swashbuckler vs Unfettered vs Duelist etc. I thought I'd try my hand at making a PrC by pulling from a bunch of sources. Given that it's my first time making a PrC, I'd like some comments on it. Thanks. Accomplished Swashbuckler Prestige Class Hit Die: d8 Requirements BAB: +8 Skills: Balance 3 ranks, Bluff 5 ranks, Climb 3 ranks, Tumble 5 ranks, Use Rope 2 ranks Feats: Combat Expertise, Weapon Finesse Special Abilities: Evasion Skills Skill Points: 4 + Int bonus Class Skills: Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Jump (Str), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Perform (Cha), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex) and Use Rope (Dex). Level Base Attack Bonus Fortitude Save Reflex Save Will Save AC Bonus Special 1 +1 +2 +2 +0 +1 Razor’s Edge, Parry 2 +2 +3 +3 +0 +1 Bonus feat, Grace +1 3 +3 +3 +3 +1 +2 Swashbuckler’s Guile 1 4 +4 +4 +4 +1 +2 Riposte, Uncanny Dodge 5 +5 +4 +4 +1 +2 Duelist Insight 6 +6/+1 +5 +5 +2 +3 Special Ability, Swashbuckler’s Guile 2 7 +7/+2 +5 +5 +2 +3 Parry ranged attacks 8 +8/+3 +6 +6 +2 +3 Improved Flanking, Luck 9 +9/+4 +6 +6 +3 +4 Thousand Cuts 10 +10/+5 +7 +7 +3 +4 Parry magic Class Features Weapon and Armor Proficiency: All simple and martial weapons, and exotic weapons that Weapon Finesse applies to. Light armor and bucklers. Armor Class Bonus (Ex): When wearing Light armor or no armor and using a buckler or no shield, the Accomplished Swashbuckler gains a special dodge bonus to Armor Class that increases every three levels. Razor’s Edge (Ex): An Accomplished Swashbuckler may use any piercing weapon that is useable with Weapon Finesse as a slashing weapon if desired. Parry (Ex): An armed Accomplished Swashbuckler uses his skill and training to judge the timing of an opponent’s incoming strike and how to block it. The Accomplished Swashbuckler adds his Intelligence modifier to his Armor Class against a single opponent in a given round, although this bonus can never exceed the Accomplished Swashbuckler’s class level. This ability only works against melee attacks and only against attacks the Accomplished Swashbuckler is aware of; he cannot parry an invisible opponent. This bonus only applies if the Accomplished Swashbuckler is wearing light or no armor, using a buckler or no shield, and using a weapon with Weapon Finesse. Bonus Feats: At 2nd level, the Accomplished Swashbuckler gets a bonus feat. This is in addition to the feats characters normally get every third level. The bonus feat must come from the following list or have DM approval: · PHB: Acrobatic, Agile, Athletic, Blind-Fight, Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Trip, Whirlwind Attack, Combat Reflexes, Deft Hands, Mobility, Spring Attack, Improved Critical, Improved Initiative, Improved Unarmed Strike, Lightning Reflexes, Persuasive, Quick Draw, Two Weapon Fighting, Two Weapon Defense, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization,) · Complete Warrior: Arterial Strike, Dash, Defensive Strike, Flick of the Wrist, Greater Two Weapon Defense, Hamstring, Improved Buckler Defense, Improved Combat Expertise, Improved Two Weapon Defense, Karmic Strike, Power Critical · Complete Adventurer: Combat Intuition, Danger Sense, Deft Strike, Dual Strike, Expert Tactician, Goad, Staggering Strike · PHBII: Acrobatic Strike, Combat Acrobat, Combat Tactician, Robilar’s Gambit, Telling Blow, Tumbling Feint, Combat Cloak Expert, Combat Panache, Einhander Grace (Ex): At 2nd level, an Accomplished Swashbuckler gains a +1 competence bonus to Reflex saving throws while wearing light or no armor. Swashbuckler’s Guile (Ex): At 3rd level, an Accomplished Swashbuckler has perfected the ability to make use of his daring actions. After performing certain cinematic maneuvers, the Accomplished Swashbuckler may add a +2 bonus to his next attack OR add 1d6 damage to his next attack. This bonus increases to +4 or 2d6 at 6th level. This bonus only applies if the Accomplished Swashbuckler is wearing light or no armor, using a buckler or no shield, and using a weapon with Weapon Finesse. The following are examples of the required cinematic maneuvers and the DM may approve others: · A successful tumble check to avoid attack of opportunity · A successful balance check when standing on a surface that requires one (such as on a pitching deck of a ship or tight rope) · A successful long jump of at least 10’ · A successful high jump of at least 3’ · A successful climb check to move at least 10’ · A successful bluff check to feint in combat · A successful intimidate check to cower an opponent · A successful disarm attempt · A successful trip attempt · An intentional drop of more than 10’ before striking opponent · A successful hit using the Riposte ability (only the damage bonus allowed here since the hit has already been made Riposte (Ex): At 4th level the Accomplished Swashbuckler learns to take advantage of his opponents’ mistakes. If an opponent misses the Accomplished Swashbuckler in melee combat, the opponent provokes an attack of opportunity from the Accomplished Swashbuckler. This ability only applies if the Accomplished Swashbuckler is wearing light or no armor, using a buckler or no shield, and using a weapon with Weapon Finesse. Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 4th level, the Accomplished Swashbuckler gains the Uncanny Dodge ability as a Rogue. If the Accomplished Swashbuckler already has Uncanny Dodge from a different class, the ability is automatically changed to Improved Uncanny Dodge. Duelist Insight (Ex): At 5th level an Accomplished Swashbuckler may choose to use his Int bonus to add to any attacks OR damage made with a weapon that uses Weapon Finesse. This bonus may not exceed half the Accomplished Swashbuckler’s class level (rounded down). If the Accomplished Swashbuckler chooses to use it for damage, this damage does not affect creatures that are normally immune to sneak attacks and critical hits (such as undead, constructs, etc.). This bonus only applies if the Accomplished Swashbuckler is wearing light or no armor, using a buckler or no shield, and using a weapon with Weapon Finesse. Special Ability: At 6th level, an Accomplished Swashbuckler may choose from the special abilities a Rogue may choose from at 10th level. This includes the option of gaining a feat instead, although it must be chosen from the feat listed for the 2nd level bonus feat. Parry Ranged Attacks (Ex): A 7th level Accomplished Swashbuckler can choose to add his Intelligence modifier to his Armor Class against a single foe who is using ranged attacks against him in a given round. It works only against attacks the Accomplished Swashbuckler is aware of—he can’t parry an invisible opponent—and only against physical attacks (not spells or spell-like abilities) that the DM deems the Accomplished Swashbuckler could knock away with his weapon. For example, a human Accomplished Swashbuckler could not parry a boulder rolling down a hill or fired from a catapult. This bonus only applies if the Accomplished Swashbuckler is wearing light or no armor, using a buckler or no shield, and using a weapon with Weapon Finesse. Improved Flanking (Ex): An 8th level Accomplished Swashbuckler has learned to capitalize when fighting opposite an ally. The Accomplished Swashbuckler gets +4 instead of +2 when flanking. Luck (Ex): An 8th level Accomplished Swashbuckler has the luck of the action hero and therefore may re-roll any d20 roll once per day. The second roll must be used no matter the result. Thousand Cuts (Ex): A 9th level Accomplished Swashbuckler can take advantage of the cinematic moves for a flurry of strikes. Any time the Accomplished Swashbuckler meets the requirement for Swashbuckler’s Guile the Accomplished Swashbuckler may double the normal number of attacks that round. The Thousand Cuts ability may only be used twice per encounter and after using it even once the Accomplished Swashbuckler must rest for 10 minutes. This ability only applies if the Accomplished Swashbuckler is wearing light or no armor, using a buckler or no shield, and using a weapon with Weapon Finesse. Parry Magic (Ex): A 10th level Accomplished Swashbuckler gains the ability to avoid spells in a manner similar to, but not as well as, a mage blade. He must have a magic weapon in hand to parry a spell. Only spells targeting the Accomplished Swashbuckler alone can be parried—not area spells or spells targeted elsewhere. Spells that do not allow a saving throw cannot be parried. The Accomplished Swashbuckler makes an attack roll opposed by the caster’s caster power check. If the Accomplished Swashbuckler’s roll is higher, he gains a +4 competence bonus on the saving throw against the spell. The Accomplished Swashbuckler can parry only spells he is aware of; spells from invisible casters or mental-action only spells cannot be parried and cannot parry more than one spell in a round. This ability only applies if the Accomplished Swashbuckler is wearing light or no armor, using a buckler or no shield, and using a weapon with Weapon Finesse.
bkdubs123 08-30-07, 10:00 PM	I WILL comment on this, but I've gotta go for the night, so I'll get back to this tomorrow. (That and write up my Blade Binder, kick off my Tome of Magic expansion project, and start on Racial Substitution Levels for my Swashbuckler!) Tomorrow should be eventful!
bkdubs123 08-31-07, 01:21 AM	Whoopses. Okay, time for comments (I know I said I wouldn't get to it until tomorrow, buuuttt.... I lied. First of all, fix the table. Its crazy right now. Second. Actual constructive criticism. I like it. I like that many different classes could potentially take this PrC, that helps with variety of character builds. I feel like (and this might sound hypocritical) this class has perhaps too much going on... I think the reason I say that is because the class gets a BUNCH of different abilities tossed together, all of which seem like they should progressively get stronger, when only one does. You have Grace and Uncanny Dodge, 1 Bonus Feat, 1 Special Ability and Luck. It just feels like a bunch of classes brutally cut into pieces and thrown on top of each other (that sounded a lot more abrasive than I meant it to). Conversely the Parry mechanic seems like it doesn't need split into three seperate abilities. I suppose you could argue that they are all seperate skills, but in the DnD world I think its not too much of a stretch to say that if you can parry one attack you can parry them all. Swashbuckler's Guile is the big original ability here and shows some real promise. The cinematic style here could really be played up, but I can see why it wasn't for the way the class is set up. But its an idea if maybe you want to rehash the class as presented. Finally, I feel like A Thousand Cuts is out of place here, at least as written. Why do they spontaneously get the ability to make a buttload of attacks because they did something that looks cool? You can either make a bunch of attacks or you can't. One way I could see it working is if they had to use the total defense action before they could Thousand Cuts. Kind of like coiling up a spring and then unleashing it. I like the general idea here. Make swashbuckling viable for other classes (something the Duelist didn't do a very good job with). But the execution does need some work. Please though, get some other feedback before you go changing everything. I myself tend to make very clockwork PrCs and just because you didn't follow my sort of forumulae doesn't necessarily make this wrong by any means.
Athaal 08-31-07, 04:55 AM	I really like the cinematic ides for bonus damage or attack bonus; it adds some real flavour to the class. But, yes i agree with bkdubs in saying that you have to much going on. I personally would remove either the bonus feat or special ability and expand the Swashbucklers Guile ability. Also if most of the options for the bonus damage revolove around feint, tumbles, balance checks and jumps, put some circumstance bonuses in those abilities. Maybe 'Intuitive Skills'? (deja vu bkdubs)