Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rakasha#5 11-18-04, 07:27 PM	Well Paladins are a cool class and all but SO FEW ****ing people play them even remotely right Example My friends and I are playing 1ed a campaign called Ravenloft where we were in a vampire filled castle surrounded by a forest full of dire wolves. So first my friend the paladin when he sees the body of a fellow paladin, HE SAYS HE TRIES TO GO OUT AND BURY IT!!!!!!!!! Then later he insisted on following a cry of help in the castle when we knew no one went near the castle, and that ONE OF THE VAMPIRES WAS AN ILLUSIONEST!!!!! Has anyone ever had a similar expierience
TyraaloftheFist 11-18-04, 07:33 PM	No, but I haven't played with any paladins. People see them as uber-good, love-and-peace types with swords...don't ask how that works, please.:confused:
CzarGarrett 11-18-04, 08:35 PM	I see nothing wrong with trying to get the body of a fallen comrade. In fact, that's almost RPing at its finest. Who else besides the Paladin has the heart and courage to save a friend's body from mutilation so that it could be properly laid to rest?
Thorak 11-18-04, 08:41 PM	I agree, burying another Paladin who fell in battle is perfectly in character. The second bit is still perfectly in character, as long as the paladin's a bit of a sucker/idiot. A smarter paladin would suspect a trap.
Wildonion 11-18-04, 08:41 PM	I see no fault, did Strahd Von Zarovic get you? (Strahd was a mean vamp!) :D
Rakasha#5 11-18-04, 09:08 PM	I agree, burying another Paladin who fell in battle is perfectly in character. The second bit is still perfectly in character, as long as the paladin's a bit of a sucker/idiot. A smarter paladin would suspect a trap. I guess I didn't make myself clear he wanted to bury the body BEFORE WE HAD CLEANED OUT THE CASTLE AND THE WOODS WERE CLEAR. And yes he was playing an idiot, but I had warned him multiple times.
Rakasha#5 11-18-04, 09:09 PM	I see no fault, did Strahd Von Zarovic get you? (Strahd was a mean vamp!) :D All I have to say is that i am never facing vamps for a loooooooooooooong time. But in the end we beheaded him. Oh and in another campaign we were facing giants and half giants, and he charged to when he was level 4 and they were obviously stronger :rolleyes: Oh and does anyone else have similar expieriences
Zsasz_Diedne 11-18-04, 09:11 PM	Sounds like he was trying to go bury it in the midst of combat folks, which ain't too bright, if I am mistaken then I have to agree that that isn't out of character for a pally. As for a cry for help, again I don't see the gripe, just because no one in the party may have been in danger does not mean a Paladin ignores a cry for aid (otherwise that Pally might be catching a cold). Whether or not he rushes headlong into potential danger, is a matter of character. It has been a prevalent problem since 1st ed of Paladins beings misinterpreted, by the people playing the, by the people playing with them, and even the the DM. Pally does not equal moron, unless he rolled real low on his Int:)
Admiral Yi Sun Shin 11-18-04, 10:02 PM	I would say that the paladin was played appropriately. You have to remember that he is lawful good and with that comes certain idealogies. Note that there are different variations in lawful good, you can be LAWFUL good or lawful GOOD which is demonstrated by the outer planes of Arcadia and Celestia respectively. But when it comes down to it, its more of an alignment issue than a class issue, the only thing to be held against the class is the fact that he must be lawful good. In a situation pertaining to myself, I am a lawful good dwarf cleric of Clangeddin who was unknowingly adventuring with a neutral evil druid (never metagamed a know alignment spell), anyways in a combat he died so i took him to Mt Clangeddin in Arcadia to be resurrected where I found him to be evil. So I attempted reform by commanding him to not adhere to some of his evil activities but he ignored me as I found him conducting mischief while scrying on him, so I quested him to kill his evil employers. Then when we spoke to some people whom the druid was opposed to, he flamestriked him and my comrades and I engaged the druid. Now as it stands, the party is broken with a giant war about to be started between 150 humans and 800 gnolls. =) You could consider my actions rash to exclude a single PC by questing him and going hostile on him however as a lawful good cleric who already gave him a chance, this is how my character is suppose to react.
angryman 11-18-04, 10:20 PM	I'm playing a laidback paladin- i do whatever i feel is right at the time. (although im NG, not LG, makes a big difference!)
subpneuma 11-18-04, 10:46 PM	Looking through my experience in playing D&D, rarely does anyone play these classes: Barbarian The rage ability is quite good, but becoming fatigued after that is not, unless one has gained 'Tireless Rage' at 17th level. Barbarian makes a fine role-playing class at high levels. Bard Playing this class makes one a jack of all trades BUT master of none. When one is a master of none in a high level campaign, one's life would become quite arduous... and functionless, if there is an unmixed and suave cleric in the game. Druid It is like what a friend of mine said, "... not as offensive as a wizard, not as defensive as a cleric..." I do have another friend, though, who has attained high levels playing a druid. Monk My favorite role-playing class... and no one else's. :( This class just seems like another jack of all trades as well, but master of none. A monk is more like a lone wolf rather than a party player; quite self-sufficient, but not much of an aid. Paladin A fighter who is lacking in bonus feats, and a cleric who is lacking in high level spells and effective 'Turn Undead' ability. The 'Code of Conduct' and being alignment specific is a pain in the neck. Learning from MMORPG, to have a good time in a high level game, I have noticed, one has to be an extremist. It is better to be totally lacking in one aspect and be a master of another. Whatever one is lacking, just rely on the other party members to do what they do best, as they would rely on one to do what one does best. This promotes team spirit. Esprit de corps! :) A jack of all trades, a "half-half", as my friends call it, just does not seem to succeed. These 5 classes, though, do add flavor to a campaign; they are quite conceptually variegated. They have class abilities, which become more proficient at higher levels, which may then deter one from acquiring a prestige class. But... prestige classes add more flavor to a campaign. So how? :rolleyes:
Admiral Yi Sun Shin 11-18-04, 11:18 PM	I'm playing a laidback paladin- i do whatever i feel is right at the time. (although im NG, not LG, makes a big difference!) You do know you have to be lawful good to retain your paladin abilities. So if you are a NG paladin, you actually a NG piece of crap cuz u're a fighter without bonus feats.
Zsasz_Diedne 11-19-04, 12:41 AM	You do know you have to be lawful good to retain your paladin abilities. So if you are a NG paladin, you actually a NG piece of crap cuz u're a fighter without bonus feats. Wow, tactful. And maybe he is playing a Paladin variant a la UA or Dragon, hm? And it's spelled Aggravating.
Ned Fletcher 11-19-04, 12:54 AM	Just the other day I was watching a game at school, they have a lot of stuff wrong with the group... Which is why I only watch and insteed work on my random encounter table, which is another story. Anyways, I observed one of them attempting to play as a paladin (before you think it, they wern't playing as a varient). He randomly walked up to a random guy, started talking to him, then shanked the inocent man for a critical threaten... then critical confermed and killed the dude. For no reason! If I were a DM I don't think that kid would not have kept his paladinship for long.
Plastic Sun 11-19-04, 01:06 AM	I used to hate this class so much, now they are probably one of my favorites, even since I played Baldurs' Gate II and was introduced to the character of Keldorn, that is the correct way to play a paladin...go play th egame...now! My favorite Paladin ever was a character in a forgotten Realms campaign, a Paladin of Ilmater who refused to attack unless he or his allies were attacked first, he actually had an intelligent conversation with a Devil and he was probably the most satisfying character ive even played
subpneuma 11-19-04, 01:18 AM	I used to hate this class so much, now they are probably one of my favorites, even since I played Baldurs' Gate II and was introduced to the character of Keldorn, that is the correct way to play a paladin...go play th egame...now! My favorite Paladin ever was a character in a forgotten Realms campaign, a Paladin of Ilmater who refused to attack unless he or his allies were attacked first, he actually had an intelligent conversation with a Devil and he was probably the most satisfying character ive even played Agreed! A paladin is quite fun in role-playing which involves a lot of conversation between PCs and NPCs, and Diplomacy checks. Agreed! A paladin is almost a necessity in D&D MMORPG to acquire quest(s) and such. Only in D&D MMORPG. :rolleyes:
Kage Wellby 11-19-04, 02:28 AM	Well Paladins are a cool class and all but SO FEW ****ing people play them even remotely right Example My friends and I are playing 1ed a campaign called Ravenloft where we were in a vampire filled castle surrounded by a forest full of dire wolves. So first my friend the paladin when he sees the body of a fellow paladin, HE SAYS HE TRIES TO GO OUT AND BURY IT!!!!!!!!! Then later he insisted on following a cry of help in the castle when we knew no one went near the castle, and that ONE OF THE VAMPIRES WAS AN ILLUSIONEST!!!!! Has anyone ever had a similar expierience He gave a proper burial to the fallen. He wished to aid those in need, even if it meant walking into a trap. Half of being a paladin is not paying attention to the part of you that says to stay alive. Some people call it Lawful Stupid, I call it role playing a hero. Neither of those actions are opposite of what a real paladin would have done. Why you feel otherwise is testament that you don't really know what being a hero is. It's running into a building that's about to fall, knowing full well that you could die, but that people need you. It's fighting a war for someone else, risking your life so that they can hate you. It's running a race when you know you can't win.
angryman 11-19-04, 07:56 AM	You do know you have to be lawful good to retain your paladin abilities. So if you are a NG paladin, you actually a NG piece of crap cuz u're a fighter without bonus feats. Ohh, jeez i didn't realise that. I must be a COMPLETE FRICKEN MORON. Oh, wait a minute. I'm not a moron...how 'bout you get back in your box, eh? (yes I am OBVIOUSLY and BLATANTLY CLEARLY playing an alternative, NG paladin)
Thorak 11-19-04, 10:30 AM	I guess I didn't make myself clear he wanted to bury the body BEFORE WE HAD CLEANED OUT THE CASTLE AND THE WOODS WERE CLEAR. And yes he was playing an idiot, but I had warned him multiple times. And? That's why he wanted to ensure the body got buried; so the wolves and such wouldn't desecrate it by eating it, while you guys were off somewhere else not caring enough to do anything about it. If the castle and woods were "clear", there wouldn't be any need to bury the guy right away. Because they weren't, there was. He's playing a paladin. Stop expecting him to be a moral-less mercenary.
Bartleby_GoC 11-19-04, 11:34 AM	(actual discussion that took place as the paladin was being healed after a particularly nasty fight) Rogue: You know, Marcus, charging in like that is dangerous. Every time you do that, the odds are you're going to die. Sir Marcus: Oh, I agree. The personal tactical risk is significant. Rogue: What? You know? They why do you charge into every battle? Sir Marcus: (as if discussing the need to keep ice cream cold) My friend, if I didn't charge in, the creatures we oppose would likely get behind our lines with greater speed. This would most likely decimate us. Alone, there is little likelyhood that I would be able to complete our quest. Failure will result in the deaths of countless common folk. I fear I must admit my cowardice on the matter. My greatest failure is that I cannot bear the thought of so much innocent blood on my hands. Being a paladin doesn't mean playing Lawful stupid. It means playing a slightly off-kilter view of the world. Paladins know that people use dirty tricks. They know things aren't always what they seem. They recognize that charging lance-first into every battle is exceptionally dangerous. They simply feel they are doing what duty, their god, and honor require be done. They do what they do because they can't abide by the consequences of not doing it. It's not stupidity, it's not naive (though players CAN be). I've seen paladins that cut off a young thiefs hands with a tear in his eye. He then paid for the regeneration and took the boy as his squire. Paladins are complicated. They have to follow the rules AND do the right thing. These are not always (in fact, not commonly) the same thing. One of my favorite paladins in all of literature is David and Leigh Edding's Mandorallen. At one point inthe books, this guy going into every fight laughing his head off. Seems chaotic, right? Nope. For his entire life, he feared nothing. Literally nothing. His skill was such that he was undefeated. He was required to fight some magical beasts that scared him, and he thought he had discovered a fatal flaw that was going to cause his death, soon. He talked with another character who made an off-hand comment that laughing usually drove away fears. So, Mandorallen tried it and it worked. Admittedly, the Baron ov Vo Mandor wasn't the brightest turnip off the cart, but he's a great charater. Point is, playing a paladin properly is like playing an elf properly. Some of the concepts are simply alien because of the extream differences. Paladins don't think the same way normal people do. Almost any character can play LG, but a paladion is LG! Bartleby
CzarGarrett 11-19-04, 12:24 PM	:thumbsup: :thumbsup: for Bartleby. That is one of the best ways I've heard it put.
Koshram 11-19-04, 12:51 PM	I actually had a player who had a tendency to follow a detect evil spell with an immediate battle cry and beheading. So, one day he was payed a visit by several high level clerics and paladins of his religious order and arrested. He then went through a series of trials (the spiritual kind, not the judicial kind) that ultimately taught him the value of compassion and that a Paladin as a representative of a Good God upholds Good just as much, if not more, than the Law. My favorite PC that I play (when someone else actually DM's :D ) is a half-elf Paladin. There are two concepts I try to explore with this character: 1. As a Paladin of a Neutral Good diety (Pelor) he is more concerned with upholding the greater Good than enforcing law and order. To emphasize this he carries a mace as his primary weapon instead of a sword. His lawful nature is expressed in a strict personal code which he understands is necessary to his calling, but isn't to be enforced on or expected of others. 2. A Paladin, a class whose many powers are based on Charisma and Wisdom, should be both diplomatic and wise. A character who has high scores in CHA and WIS and who is also LG would be generally well liked and respected for their honesty and integrity (at least by those who admire honesty and integrity). Paladins are not cops. They are disciplined holy warriors who serve divine powers and the agenda of their particular diety (who is not allways Lawful ;) ). As to the above situation, burial rites aren't covered in my Paladins code so he wouldn't have been too concerned. I agree with Thorak, a Paladin would be concerned about innocents, but a wise Paladin would understand that he is dealing with a cunning enemy and would be more cautious. ;)
Thorak 11-19-04, 12:57 PM	I agree, that was well-written, Bartleby. An addendum, based on my current character; I'm playing a human Paladin. The rest of the party tends more to Neutral than Good; they're not doing nasty stuff to anyone, but they'd much rather get out alive than risk anything to do some good along the way. But, as a group, regardless of the differences, we're tight, which makes for an interesting dynamic. For instance, we're investigating an ancient temple, possible prison for some demonic force, that was opened up under the village we were in. We have no idea what's down here, besides the fact that it's nasty. My Paladin, obviously, wants just get going and investigate, but listens to reason; we killed the guys opening it, it's been there over 50 years without incident, and we're beat to crap. Let's rest up. So later that night, we're awoken by unearthly screams coming from the temple. My Paladin, feeling personally vindicated and more than a little ashamed he didn't push harder, insists we explore it now, in case something nasty's down there. The party, grudgingly, agrees. So we explore a bit, have a few encounters. No biggie. The screams stop, eventually, and we never find what was making them. And we clear the place out, save for one room. In that room, is a mural. A cracked mural. And the crack is slowly crumbling bigger. My Paladin has a baaaaad feeling. He can already see the evil starting to pour through. But just getting close to it to take a closer look physically hurts him. So, he grudgingly agrees they should return to the surface, to talk to villagers (like the town drunk who everyone dismissed because he talks to 'fairies', who turned out to be a high-level wizard who really DID talk to fairies), and figure out what to do. He can't do anything down there anyway. But as we're heading out, he lags behind a bit, keeping an eye on the rear. And he hears something, back the way they came. So he goes to check it out, and sees a shadow moving in that room. And charges off, with a yell over his shoulder to his friends; he knows it's going to be evil, and that it will probably kill everyone in the village unless he stops it. Unfortunately, he loses initiative, and the massive bone-golem looking thing smacks him with it's greataxe, knocking him unconscious instantly (I was level 2 or 3 at this point). The party, following shortly after, sees me being dragged through the hole that is now where the mural lay. Big fight later, we win, and everyone goes home happy. The important part is exactly what Bartleby's describing though; as logically stupid as it is from a personal perspective for my paladin to go charging in against a probably powerful enemy, he has to. Because it's Evil, and therefore a threat to the innocents above. If he sneaks away, it might get out and slaughter everyone aboveground. He can't accept that risk. He may die trying to save them, but better to die in the effort than to live knowing he let them die without trying to save them. That is the Paladin mentality. Your life is meaningless, except as it serves and benefits others. Personal risk is only a concern to a Paladin if nobody else is at risk.
Ned Fletcher 11-19-04, 03:27 PM	Currently I'm playing in a ghostwalk campain. I usually always play as a paladin, right now I'm Sir Richard. Most of the time I'm the only one in my group doing anything. One of my group members is now a bear, he died and got reincarnated. The other a half-elf wizard who is chaotic neutral who acts more like chaotic evil. Now I'm wondering if I could justify killing him by his actions, the actions are as follows: -He randomly killed a random orc who was giving me information about the location of a evil ettin. -Because of that we were attacked by about five orcs, he killed three, I only killed one because I tried to stay out of combat by backing up but got attacked. -He constintly says stuff like "I wanna kill the old lady" or "I stab the guy" half actually wanting to do the action but the DM doesn't let him. -When a black guard attacked, he choose to save his money and try to make a run for it insteed of helping the towns folk to survive the attack. And I belive that a Paladin would find that horrible, could I justify killing him with that? Or what should I do? EDIT: And that was very well writin, I do also agree.
Rakasha#5 11-19-04, 03:46 PM	Now it is not that I was against the whole burial thing but he or helping innoents, but there is nothing noble about rushing to a call of help that one of your party members knows is a vampire trap with no innocent just a ghost sound! And the body was safe where it was in the castle, but he insisted on putting his mission aside (to slay all of the vampires), leaving his party behind and going to bury a body. First I think it was stupid because before he even finished burying it he was attaked by wolves and nearly killed wouldn't it be smarter and more noble to get the mission done first, or is anyone listening to me here and one last thing, thorak PUT THE FLAME THROWER AWAY EXPECTING SOMONE TO HAVE A BRAIN IS NOT EXPECTING SOME ONE TO BE MORALESS!!!! Oh and Bartleby good explaination except I don't think the Paladins' code is stupid but it is very easy to be misinterpreted and played as stupid. I repeat it is not wrong to ignore a fake cry for help or to not bury a body before killing the castle full of evil vampires. And chances are that the wolves will surround him kill him and eat the body. Oh and we ended up burning it and keeping the ashes in some holy earned we arried around until we finished then buried it.
Vaalingrade Ashland 11-19-04, 04:19 PM	Gather 'round children for the tales that led me to ban Paladins and ignore them when building Ere: The Ballad of Mittens the Paladin During one campaign, one of the characters died around level 10 and returned as a Sorc6/Pal4. Almost, immediately, he started abusing detect evil, despite my sorcerer's warnings not to abuse magic like that. As it turned out, he discovered a group of evil people in a tavern -- his solution: Fireball. In a wooden tavern. Needless to say, the city lords were not happy with our continued drawing of breath, but luckily, the bard, rogue and I were able to hash out a deal: We go free if the Paladin has his sorcerous powers blocked somehow -- the solution: a magical pair of mittens that only we (the other party members) could remove, but which would appear on him via a command word. The bard spent much time composing the Ballad of Mittens to the point that the Pally was know far and wide by that name. Scrambled Eggs In a game I ran, the party was charged with the duty of negotiating passage to a dragon's cave from a tribe of goblin, then returning the eggs therein to thier employer. Apperently, parley is not the strong suit for LG morons. The second the goblins come into sight, the Pally drops a DE and proceeds to slaughter the entire village. (13th level pally vs 25 goblin warriors who were expecting to talk and coerce money). After admonishments from the party (seeing as the patron god of these goblins manifested and avatar and swore divine vengence for the slaughter) and a constriction from his phylancapary (sp?) of faithfulness, they move on to the dragon's cave. A harrowing battle ensues and the dragonis slain. But upon inspection of the eggs, the Pally realizes that red dragon nest = red dragon eggs -- and proceeds to scramble the valuable quest items. This combined with all the genocide moved his alignment to LN and he lost his powers. And began screaming at me because he had to pay the price for his dispicable actions. Stab a little girl -- repeatedly On favor of a fellow DM, I reprised my old character Coulmni Agni, a sorceress who was polymorphed to look like a little girl of 12 years and had the thought processes of a child. She was NE and the campaign stemmed from the need to cure her. The player who was playing a pally browbeat the DM into allowing him to play a pally -- And immediately attacked Coulmni. He treed her twice, killed her three times (accounting for half of coulmni's 7 deaths that game), until Coulmni (well me) had had enough -- and dominated him, forcing him to carry her on his shoulders everywhere. And let's not forget Darton (http://www.ledgermaincomics.com/comics/chapter01/Comic035.htm)
Rakasha#5 11-20-04, 10:48 PM	bump
kasthevampire 11-21-04, 01:14 PM	as long as the palidin doesn't steal the dead palidins stuff it is fine
(Psi)SeveredHead 11-21-04, 01:34 PM	as long as the palidin doesn't steal the dead palidins stuff it is fine The dead guy doesn't need his stuff anymore, and when was the last time a permanently dead party member got to keep his stuff? The stuff may be of use to the paladin, and there's nothing in the CoC against grave-robbing anyway. (After all, that's a significant portion of an adventurer's job.)
kasthevampire 11-21-04, 05:24 PM	you could always bury it with the dead palidin. but i mean if you do take some stuff i wouldn't take it all. for the sake of god please keep at least a LOINCLOTH on him :mymy: