Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Grizzled Gryphon 10-12-05, 02:19 AM	I was wondering if anyone has any ideas on how to make a base character that is the Aiel? They are one of my favorites from the Wheel of Time series, and I want to incorperate them into my game. I was considering using the Scout, or maybe just an optimized Rogue. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Of course, if it has been done already, please let me know.
strenoth 10-12-05, 02:54 AM	get the wheel of time D20 book. Replace the Defense bonus stuff with a Monk-style AC bonus including wisdom to AC.
Grizzled Gryphon 10-12-05, 03:05 AM	You think the Monk's ac bonus would work? Hmm, I guess it would... But, I don't have the means to get said book, so I am looking for other alternatives. Basically, I was going to use a base class, and alter it. I was thinking the Scout would be perfect, just change the sudden strike ability with the, well, I suppose the Monks AC bonus (I like that idea, thanks!)and change the weapon proficencies to all simple and Martial, just no swords. Although an Axe would be kinda odd for an Aiel. Maybe just all simple?
Grizzled Gryphon 10-12-05, 03:08 AM	However, how do I emulate their hand to hand ability? I don't want it to be as good as the monks, but it is better than your normal characters. Maybe they get Improved unarmed strike as a bonus feat?
Vloorshad 10-12-05, 09:42 AM	You think the Monk's ac bonus would work? Hmm, I guess it would... But, I don't have the means to get said book, so I am looking for other alternatives. Basically, I was going to use a base class, and alter it. I was thinking the Scout would be perfect, just change the sudden strike ability with the, well, I suppose the Monks AC bonus (I like that idea, thanks!)and change the weapon proficencies to all simple and Martial, just no swords. Although an Axe would be kinda odd for an Aiel. Maybe just all simple? Why not just bring the Defense Bonus into the game? Unearthed Arcana has the rules for that. As for weapon proficiencies: short spear, short bow, and some form of knives.
Esponer 10-12-05, 10:14 AM	Give them proficiences with all simple and martial weapons that are spears, knives and bows (not crossbows). Add as a note to DMs that they should not wield any weapon which is very much dedicated to killing people - their weapons should all have hunting purposes. The Aiel character is banned from ever using weapons that don't fall into this category (DM's decision, ultimately). A modified Scout would work well, improving their AC bonus, giving them Improved Unarmed Strike as a feat, and removing Trapfinding. Remove Battle Fortitude, but add something back in to give them even better initiative - or perhaps just Battle Fortitude for Reflex saves and Initiative instead. Remove the bonus feats. One of them was lost as Improved Unarmed Strike. That leaves four more. Replace these bonus feats with relatively minor, flavour-based class abilities, or specific granted feats (or another list of possible feats). Improved Disarm is particularly Aiel-like, as is Deflect Arrows, arguably. Finally, consider allowing the Aiel to choose at 1st level between sneak attack and skirmish.
Grizzled Gryphon 10-12-05, 11:49 AM	Take the scout, remove the bonus feats, all profeciency with armor, and profeciency with all weapons except the spears, knives, and bows, except crossbow. Give them the Monks bonus to AC, and the speed bonus of the Monk. After all, they could outrun horses. Leave them Skirmish, but wothout the AC bonus. Give them a bonus to Init. equel to the Monk AC bonus. As for bonus feats, at 1st level, they gain improved unarmed strike, then at 4th, and every 4 levels after, they can choose form the following; Acrobatic, Agile, Alertness, Athletic, Blind Fight, Combat Expertise, Danger Sense, Dodge, Endurance, Improved Initative, Mobility, Quick Draw, Quick Reconmoiter, Shot on the Run, Spring Attack, and Track. They must meet all of the prerequisits for the feat. I almost want to give them the Camouflage ability at lower level. They lose Trapfinding. Well, that is a jumbled up mess, but I think those changes would work... What do you guys think?
Grizzled Gryphon 10-12-05, 11:51 AM	After writing it up, though, they are still under par... Perhaps a fighters BAB? Or maybe just a 1D10 hit die...No, the Fighter BAB sounds good, but I like the D8 hit die.
Grizzled Gryphon 10-12-05, 01:08 PM	OK, how does this look... Aiel Scout Hit Die D8 Class Skills Balance, Climb, Caft, Escape Artist, Hide , Jump , Knowledge (geography), Knowledge (nature), Listen, Move Silently, Search, Spot, Survival, Tumble, and Use Rope. ( I removed Swim and Ride, for obvious reasons, and Knowledge (Dungioneering, becasude it didn't seem to fit) Skill points at first level: (8 + Int modifier) X 4. Skill Points at Each Level: 8 + Int modifier (I have yet to figure out how to get a table to work, so I will summurize this part) Base attack Bonus: same as fighter Saves: Same as Scout Class Features: Weapon and Armor profiency: Aiel are profecient with dagger, punching dagger, longspear, spear, javalin, kukri, longbow, and shortbow. Aiel are proficient with bucklers. Dance the Spears (ex): An Aiel relies on mobility to deal axtra damage. He deals an extra 1D6 points of damage on all attacks he makes during any round in which he moves at least 10 ft. The extra damage applies only to attacks taken during the Aiels turn. This extra damage increases by 1D6 for every four levels gained above 1st. The extra damage only applies against creatures that have a discernable anatomy. Undead, constructs, oozes, plants, incorporeal creatures, and creatures immune to extra damage from critical hits are not vulnerable to this additional damage. The Aiel must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. Aiel can apply this extra damage to ranged attacks made while skirmishing, but only if the target is within 30 ft. An Aiel looses this ability when wearing any armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load. Fast Movement (Ex): Aiel gain a movement bonus as per the a Monk of the same level. AC bonus (Ex): Aiel are highly trained at dodging blowsand has a sixth sense that lets him avoid even unanticipated attacks. When unencumbered, the Aiel adds his Wis bonus (if any) to his AC. In addition, an Aiel gains a +1 to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five Aiel levels thereafter. These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacksor when the Aiel is flat footed. He loses these bonuses when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor, or when he carries a meduim or heavy load. Bonus Feats: At first level, an Aiel gains Improved Unarmed Strike. At 4th level, and every four levels thereafter, an Aiel can choose a bonus feat from the following list: Acrobatic, Agile, Alertness, Athletic, Blind- Fight, Combat Expertise, Danger Sense, Dodge, Endurance, Hear the Unseen, Improved Initiative, Mobility, Quick Draw, Quick Reconnoiter, Shot on the Run, Spring Attack, and Track. He must meet all the prerequisites for the feat. Camouflage (Ex): An Aiel can use the Hide skill in any sort of natural terrain. See the Ranger class feature. An Aiel loses this ability if he is wearing armor, or is carrying a medium or heavy load. Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, an Aiel cannot be caught flat-footed and reacts to danger before his senses would normally allow him to do so. Same as the Barbarian. Trackless Step (Ex): Beginning at 3rd level, an Aiel cannot be tracked in natural surroundings. See the Druid class feature. Evasion (Ex): at 5th level, an Aiel can avoid damage from certain attacks with a successful reflex save. See the the Monk class feature. Flawless Stride (Ex): Starting at 6th level, an Aiel can move through any sort of terrain that slows movement at his normal speed without taking damage or suffering any impairment. This ability does not let him move more quickly through terrain that requires a Climb or Swim check to navigate, nor can he move quickly through terrain or undergrowth that has been magically maipulated to impede motion. An Aiel loses this benifit when wearing armor, or carrying a medium or heavy load. Blindsense (Ex): At 10th level, an Aiel gains the blindsense ability out to 30 ft. This ability functions as described in the Monster Manual. Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): Beginning at 14th level, an Aiel can use the Hide skill in natural terrain even while being observed. See the ranger class feature. The Aiel loses this ability if he is wearing armor, or is carrying a medium or heavy load. Free Movement (Ex): At 18th level, and higher, an Aiel can slip out of bonds, grapples, and even the effects of confining spells easily. This ability duplicates the effects of a Freedom of Movement spell, but is always active. An Aiel loses this ability if he is wearing armor, or is carrying a medium or heavy load. Blindsight (Ex): A 20th level Aiel gains the blindsight ability out to 30 ft. His senses become so acute that he can maneuver and fight flawlessly even in total darkness. Invisibilty, darkness, and most kinds of concealment are irrevalent, though the Aiel must have line of effect to a creature or object to discern it.
Perun 10-12-05, 01:24 PM	Looking at the WoT d20 algai'd'siswai, I'd suggest the following: Use fighter as the base class. Remove medium and heavy armour, and shield proficiencies. Remove martial weapon proficiencies. Reflex is a good save, Fort and Will are poor. Add monk's AC bonus (including the Wis bonus), but usable with no or light armour only. Add barbarian's fast movement at 1st level. Give them 4 + Int skill points with ranger's skill list. Add Uncanny Dodge an Trapsence (as barbarian) Level 5: Gain Stealthy as a bonus feat. Level 10: Gain improved Initiative as a bonus feat. The d20 algai'd'siswai doesn't get any unarmed attack proficiencies. This is an approximation of the class in d20 WoT, but I feel it gets almost everything the original class gets. As another idea, use variant barbarian rage (frenzy?) from Unearthed Arcana -- it's not the typical rage, it improves mobility. Regards.
Grizzled Gryphon 10-12-05, 01:42 PM	Yes, I have seen the D20 Wheel of Time, and I don't think it reflects the Aiel right. They certainly NEVER wear armor, for one, and they ONLY use the weapons I have in the write up above. I think the only thing about the write up I did that doesn't fit well is the Blindsight and Blindsense abilities. But, they don't go against it, either, so I will leave it unless someone comes up with a better idea. Your ideas would make for an interesting class, though. Even so, I will stick with the one I wrote up. It reflects the class in the books better, I think.
Perun 10-12-05, 02:04 PM	Yes, I have seen the D20 Wheel of Time, and I don't think it reflects the Aiel right. They certainly NEVER wear armor, for one, and they ONLY use the weapons I have in the write up above. I think the only thing about the write up I did that doesn't fit well is the Blindsight and Blindsense abilities. But, they don't go against it, either, so I will leave it unless someone comes up with a better idea. Your ideas would make for an interesting class, though. Even so, I will stick with the one I wrote up. It reflects the class in the books better, I think. WoT d20 algai'd'siswai don't wear armour, it's something I intentionally left in the approximation above. If you're playing standard D&D, which I assume you are, since you haven't said anything to the contrary, the character needs an armour if he wants to be a front-line combatant. WoT deals with this by using defence bonus (algai... heck, I'll just call them ADS from now on :) -- they get a HUGE defence bonus). Even with the monk AC bonus, that's +4 +Wis modifier at 20th level! Not nearly enough. It's very difficult to exactly recreate a fantasy character. WoT is an official rendering of the novel, and if you really, really want to play a "real" aiel, I strongly suggest somehow getting the official version. Your version might be good, but it's doesn't do fierce warrior well (and that's how I remember the aiel, as fierce warriors). Well, to each his own, I guess :) Regards.
Grizzled Gryphon 10-12-05, 02:27 PM	Your right, of course. What is the AC bonus from Unearted Aracana, by the way? I have never seen it. I wish there were some other way for them to have an AC bonus than wearing armor.The Monk ability is too weak. How about a +1 to AC per level? LOL, just kidding. I guess light armor would work, but I want to hear the Unearted Arcana AC bonus thing first.
Grizzled Gryphon 10-12-05, 02:39 PM	The Aiel were very good at unarmed fighting, and that isn't reflected in the WoT class. Didn't they get a +1 to AC every 3 levels, or something? I can't remember. Obviuosly, they weren't as good as a Monk, but they were better than, say, your average fighter. That is why I added the Improved Unarmed Strike. My only other concern with the WoT class, is it is based on a world where having magic items just isn't possible. I thought that would make them over powered for a standard DnD game.
Edymnion 10-12-05, 07:06 PM	Honestly, I'd probably just say they were variant rangers, maybe Ranger/Monk multiclasses. Its just that they were all high level. As in, they were all lvl 5+ Fighters, Rangers, Whatevers, while most of the WoT army troops were at most a lvl 1 or 2 Warrior.
Redding MTG Player 10-12-05, 08:00 PM	the WotC Aiel get a +4 AC at first lvl and 1 AC every 2 levels after that. Poor fort and will medium reflex. full BAB, D10 HD, 4+ int skils, they end up with a +8 init at 20 lvl, they get uncanny dodge, fast movement, stealthy movement, and weapon focus short spear.
Lord Schpungus 10-12-05, 10:40 PM	Scout all the way. There is no substitute.
Dantano 10-13-05, 01:11 AM	I'd just try recreating them using existing classes and manipulating bonus feats/skills properly.
CzarGarrett 10-13-05, 08:57 AM	Honestly, I think Aiel are more of a race issue rather than class. Think about it, the Stone Dogs were known to be the rear guard and less mobile (compared to other Aiel). Red Shields were bodyguards and the 'police' of the Aiel. Maidens were uber scouts and often the forward guards. The generic fighting styles might be similiar, but a good number of the feats and skill sets could be different.
Grizzled Gryphon 10-13-05, 09:05 AM	Varient humans? Hmmm, interesting idea... :thinks:
Grizzled Gryphon 11-21-05, 10:04 PM	:bump:
MystErikEry 11-21-05, 10:28 PM	I would give them one additional Bonus Feat that must be selected from the list of available Fighter Bonus Feats, plus the Bonus Feats Endurance and Die Hard... in exchange, they'd have Ji'e'toh to deal with. :F
Grizzled Gryphon 11-21-05, 10:32 PM	yes, Ji'e'toh. I have been mulling over just how to quantify this in a game sense. Maybe something like the Kensai?
CzarGarrett 11-22-05, 09:11 AM	yes, Ji'e'toh. I have been mulling over just how to quantify this in a game sense. Maybe something like the Kensai? I think it goes far beyond oaths that a Kensai would take. I don't know if it even could be quantified in a gaming sense.
fendrin 11-22-05, 10:01 AM	I personally think that Aiel Warrior/Algai'd'siswai should be a PrC... especially seeing they would occationally take in an 'wetlander'. maybe have relatively low pre-reqs, seeing that even relatively young Aiel would be able to get in (though the Aiel children start training VERY young) Maybe: BAB: +3 Skills: Survival +7 or Move Silently +7 Feats: Endurance, Run Alignment: any Lawful Special: Must be accepted into an Aiel Warrior society With these Reqs a wide variety of characters can get in by 4th level: Barbarians, Bards, some Clerics (travel domain), Druids, Monks, Rangers, and Rogues form the core books, many others as well. Fighters need to multiclass or wait till lvl 14 because of the skill requirements... but that's ok, because the PrC would be aimed primarily at wilderness/stealth types, not your straight up sword & board fighter. I would then have the rest of the PRC be based of of the ideas above. Full BAB, Fort(maybe) & Ref as good saves gain an enhanced speed progression, and a series of bonus feats/bonusses focused around spear fighting. They would of course, gain WP with Shortspear when they join. (all Aiel warriors use shortspears, they don't use longspears at all, IIRC). Skills would be similar to a ranger's. Edit: Oh and at first level they get "Ji'e'toh". This 'ability' basically states that the Aiel Warrior must live by the Aiel ways, or else they may no longer progress as an Aiel Warrior, and will be hunted by all other Aiel Warriors.
Dracspero 11-22-05, 12:17 PM	Ranger/Monk(using the feat in CAdv that allows the two to combine)/Dervish ("Dance" of Death)?
Grizzled Gryphon 11-23-05, 12:08 PM	Not only does Ji'e'toh go far beyond what can be quantified in a game sense, but it is never really explained in any kind of detail that would make it possible. Some of the wet landers eventually understand it, sort of, but it hasn't been explained much at all. As for the longspear, there is no reason they wouldn't use one. In fact, the only weapon the hate is the sword. All other weapons are OK, if you really wanted to use it. Your fellow Aiel would probably look at you funny if you whipped out a, say, Double Axe, and they might find it humorous that you are using that big clunky thing instead of a perfectly good short spear, but that is all. If an Aiel were to brandish a sword, though, the rest might just kill you outright, if not strip you naked and send you off into the waste that way. Maybe the race idea, instead of a class, is the right way to go with this. Heck, I don't know, this may be too tall an order for me to fill. Ah, well, life goes on. Any further comments are appreciated, and all previuos posters have my thanks. I am very close to saying they are a flavor varient of the scout, that can't use swords, and leave it at that.
Dracspero 11-23-05, 12:39 PM	Hmm, good point about the swords. I guess Dervish is out, unless you were to design an alternate Dervish using spears instead of swords.
Shadow Dweller 11-23-05, 01:03 PM	The Aiel are definatly a Race, not a Class. I've thought of how to make them a few times, but I've never managed to get it quite right. But however you do it you have to make swords of any kind, except maybe short, a prohibited weapon for aiel. I'll think about this a bit and try to post something in a few days. Hopefully...
DrMorganes 11-23-05, 01:48 PM	The Aiel are human, nothing more and nothing less. Thier physiology is the same as every other human's. While it *may* make sense to apply the Desert Human (or similar template) from Unearthed Arcana, it's the Aiel culture from which most of their combat prowess springs. Cultural abilities - whether as a nationality or a small guild of highly-trained adventurers - are covered mechanically via Prestige Classes. Rather than trying to wedge the Aiel into a 20-level base class, I suggest you consider a 10-level Prestige Class. This solves many of the issues surrounding the Fighter/Scout/Ranger/Monk derivative discussion; the character advances is a published base class until (s)he meets the prereqs to enter the Aiel Warrior (or whatever) PrC. This also addresses the issue of outsiders learning their ways and tactics. If these were racially based, it would not be possible. Toss 'em into a Prestige Class, however, and anyone who can manage to be accepted by the Aiel can train in their combat techniques. That said, it's been quite literally 10 years since I read any of the Wheel of Time. (Yes, Robert Jordan has been writing the WoT for well over a decade. Scary, idn't it?) I don't recall much about the Aiel beyond their use of long-bladed, short-hafted spears over swords. A few things I do recall: Stealth They ran everywhere Limited weapon proficiencies No armor Largely unmatched in battle To me, this translates into a ranger or scout skill list, some sort of enhanced movement, perhaps tossing in an AC bonus similar to a monk's. Consider the tactical feats in - what? Complete Warrior? - as bonus feats... Class building is not my strong point. Whaddaya think?
LiamDeclan 11-25-05, 01:36 AM	I would make them Ranger/Monk/Barbarian/Scouts of some kind. They lived in a desert waste area and would wear hardly any clothes, that just screams Barbarian. Monk and Barbarian give bonus movement speed. They really should have the Ranger/Scout skill lists. I would give them a d12 for hit points and the Barbarian damage reduction that starts at a lower level. Also give them the Monk movement speeds and Improved Unarmed Strike with a 1st level Monk damage. At 10th level give them a 5th level Monk's damage. They shouldn't get anymore damage than that. Since they can only use Knives,daggers,bows, clubs, and shortspears you should consider those flaws of a sort. With the armor and weapon restriction and their sense of honor give them the Fighter bonus feats and the same BAB progression. I also think they should have a better Fortitude save considering they could outrun horses and lived in a waste area.
Grizzled Gryphon 11-29-05, 04:36 PM	Ah, forget it. I am just going to get the book, and revise it a little. Thanks for all the input, guys.