Aikido Style Monk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Aikido Style Monk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SaberXtreme
05-05-07, 11:56 AM Are there any feats/classes/styles to represent a monk who fights with a Similar style to the Martial Art Aikido?
wolfie-kun
05-05-07, 12:35 PM A swordsage with the Setting Sun discipline focusing on the available counters.
PrinceCurtis
05-05-07, 12:39 PM Gotta love that Setting Sun!
Tempest Stormwind
05-05-07, 12:48 PM Are there any feats/classes/styles to represent a monk who fights with a Similar style to the Martial Art Aikido?

They have tried, and failed, to represent soft martial arts since Sword and Fist and Oriental Adventures. It *always* involved way too many feats for far too little effect, and it *never* relied on anything but your brute strength (so the idea of a halfling monk tossing a clumsy bugbear to the ground was impossible).

And then the Tome of Battle happened, with the swordsage and Setting Sun.

Just focus on Setting Sun (counters, throws, redirect enemy attacks), Diamond Mind (single target defense, saving throws, precision strikes, action before thought), and Stone Dragon (single heavy strikes, defense, raw physical power -- in the "break the stone blocks" sense -- and methods of breaching DR) as your disciplines of choice. MAYBE splash a touch of Tiger Claw in there if you like rapid movement, and the mundande speed-based Desert Wind maneuvers. If you want pressure-point attacks, look to the non-supernatural Shadow Hand moves.

Read up on the maneuvers here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a). Setting Sun first.
SaberXtreme
05-05-07, 09:19 PM Thanks guys! I'll definately check those out. Are there any good feats in the newer splatbooks that give bonuses for fighting defensively?
The_Shaman
05-05-07, 09:25 PM I think CW has a few, but it's usually for fighting defensively with weapons. Aside from the SS maneuvers, I'd say elusive target can be quite useful; I've heard good things about most of its maneuvers, and cause overreach might fit the monk quite well.
Cala, Legend Reborn
05-05-07, 09:29 PM Deadly Defense (Complete Scoundrel, page 76) is good for a light, defensive combatant.
Tempest Stormwind
05-06-07, 03:05 AM Another interesting idea would be the kalashtar tactical feat in Races of Eberron. Basically, you can dance around your opponent defensively for a bit and then dish out a serious final attack on rounds after. It's based off of fighting defensively or using Combat Expertise for a round and then attacking normally. It *does* work with maneuvers, provided you're actually using defensive fighting or combat expertise to do so. It's sort of like a defensive version of Stormguard Warrior (which is easily the strongest, damage-wise, of the tactical feats in that book; Clarion Commander and Shards of Granite can come close but Stormguard Warrior is just so satisfying...).

Elusive Target is perfect against power-attackers in particular, and great if you like to keep your own mobility.

I'd have to look up Setting Sun's tactical feat in the Tome of Battle to see if it's interesting or not.
wolfie-kun
05-06-07, 10:09 AM I'd have to look up Setting Sun's tactical feat in the Tome of Battle to see if it's interesting or not.
Use a stun in conjunction with a Setting Sun strike, +2 to both the save DC of the strike and the save DC of the stunning attack.
Iarmeister
05-06-07, 12:35 PM Use a stun in conjunction with a Setting Sun strike, +2 to both the save DC of the strike and the save DC of the stunning attack.

I thought it was only a +1...
Tempest Stormwind
05-06-07, 01:10 PM Use a stun in conjunction with a Setting Sun strike, +2 to both the save DC of the strike and the save DC of the stunning attack.

I said *tactical* feat. I know what Falling Sun Strike does. (We've got a player who plans on combining that with the Pharaoh's Fist feat from Sandstorm to turn the enemies he throws into tiny stun grenades.)

Distant Horizon is the tac feat, now that I'm home and with my books. It definitely does seem like it'd be a good feat for the aikido monk. (One maneuver gives you bonuses on Strength or Dexterity checks against an opponent you just bull rushed or threw, another lets you quickly charge an opponent who charges you and fails (note: you can counter it, and your charge doesn't need to move 10' minimum nor does it have to be in a straight line), and the last lets you do a special attack while flanking a target to amplify the damage he takes from all attacks for a while.)
RadicalTaoist
05-07-07, 03:59 PM Speaking as an Aikidoka, I have seen what could easily been the entire Setting Sun school in my personal experience (Mighty Throw, Tornado Throw, Counter Charge, Fool's Strike, Shifting Defense, Step of the Wind, Stalking Shadow, Mirrored Pursuit, Shifting Defense, Hydra Slaying Strike, Clever Positioning...).

The Elusive Target feat from Complete Warrior is a good Aikidoka feat, as mentioned. Look at Defensive Throw, Clever Wrestling, and Close-Quarters Fighting from that book as well. One thing, unfortunately, that Tome of Battle doesn't cover that well is the grappling aspects of Aikido. Our pins focus more on total immobilization rather than doing damage or attacking with a weapon in the other hand.
wolfie-kun
05-07-07, 07:43 PM I said *tactical* feat. I know what Falling Sun Strike does. (We've got a player who plans on combining that with the Pharaoh's Fist feat from Sandstorm to turn the enemies he throws into tiny stun grenades.)
That's what I get for not sleeping enough. Can't even catch something that obvious...
ThkkBldstrm
05-08-07, 12:26 AM for the grappling aspect, "crushing weight of the mountain" works well, (3rd level stance), "assassins stance" (also 3rd level)... or if you're looking for a non-martial solution (seems like you're fine with it though), a couple levels in rogue and the PrC Reaping Mauler from CW also could work.
as for feats, I think superior unarmed strike (from ToB) is a must have ( it gives a sort of "lesser" version of the monks unarmed damage)

on a side note, have you thought of making it a dwarf? It would synergize nicely with "counter charge" if they happen to bullrush you while charging.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SaberXtreme 05-05-07, 11:56 AM	Are there any feats/classes/styles to represent a monk who fights with a Similar style to the Martial Art Aikido?
wolfie-kun 05-05-07, 12:35 PM	A swordsage with the Setting Sun discipline focusing on the available counters.
PrinceCurtis 05-05-07, 12:39 PM	Gotta love that Setting Sun!
Tempest Stormwind 05-05-07, 12:48 PM	Are there any feats/classes/styles to represent a monk who fights with a Similar style to the Martial Art Aikido? They have tried, and failed, to represent soft martial arts since Sword and Fist and Oriental Adventures. It always involved way too many feats for far too little effect, and it never relied on anything but your brute strength (so the idea of a halfling monk tossing a clumsy bugbear to the ground was impossible). And then the Tome of Battle happened, with the swordsage and Setting Sun. Just focus on Setting Sun (counters, throws, redirect enemy attacks), Diamond Mind (single target defense, saving throws, precision strikes, action before thought), and Stone Dragon (single heavy strikes, defense, raw physical power -- in the "break the stone blocks" sense -- and methods of breaching DR) as your disciplines of choice. MAYBE splash a touch of Tiger Claw in there if you like rapid movement, and the mundande speed-based Desert Wind maneuvers. If you want pressure-point attacks, look to the non-supernatural Shadow Hand moves. Read up on the maneuvers here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a). Setting Sun first.
SaberXtreme 05-05-07, 09:19 PM	Thanks guys! I'll definately check those out. Are there any good feats in the newer splatbooks that give bonuses for fighting defensively?
The_Shaman 05-05-07, 09:25 PM	I think CW has a few, but it's usually for fighting defensively with weapons. Aside from the SS maneuvers, I'd say elusive target can be quite useful; I've heard good things about most of its maneuvers, and cause overreach might fit the monk quite well.
Cala, Legend Reborn 05-05-07, 09:29 PM	Deadly Defense (Complete Scoundrel, page 76) is good for a light, defensive combatant.
Tempest Stormwind 05-06-07, 03:05 AM	Another interesting idea would be the kalashtar tactical feat in Races of Eberron. Basically, you can dance around your opponent defensively for a bit and then dish out a serious final attack on rounds after. It's based off of fighting defensively or using Combat Expertise for a round and then attacking normally. It does work with maneuvers, provided you're actually using defensive fighting or combat expertise to do so. It's sort of like a defensive version of Stormguard Warrior (which is easily the strongest, damage-wise, of the tactical feats in that book; Clarion Commander and Shards of Granite can come close but Stormguard Warrior is just so satisfying...). Elusive Target is perfect against power-attackers in particular, and great if you like to keep your own mobility. I'd have to look up Setting Sun's tactical feat in the Tome of Battle to see if it's interesting or not.
wolfie-kun 05-06-07, 10:09 AM	I'd have to look up Setting Sun's tactical feat in the Tome of Battle to see if it's interesting or not. Use a stun in conjunction with a Setting Sun strike, +2 to both the save DC of the strike and the save DC of the stunning attack.
Iarmeister 05-06-07, 12:35 PM	Use a stun in conjunction with a Setting Sun strike, +2 to both the save DC of the strike and the save DC of the stunning attack. I thought it was only a +1...
Tempest Stormwind 05-06-07, 01:10 PM	Use a stun in conjunction with a Setting Sun strike, +2 to both the save DC of the strike and the save DC of the stunning attack. I said tactical feat. I know what Falling Sun Strike does. (We've got a player who plans on combining that with the Pharaoh's Fist feat from Sandstorm to turn the enemies he throws into tiny stun grenades.) Distant Horizon is the tac feat, now that I'm home and with my books. It definitely does seem like it'd be a good feat for the aikido monk. (One maneuver gives you bonuses on Strength or Dexterity checks against an opponent you just bull rushed or threw, another lets you quickly charge an opponent who charges you and fails (note: you can counter it, and your charge doesn't need to move 10' minimum nor does it have to be in a straight line), and the last lets you do a special attack while flanking a target to amplify the damage he takes from all attacks for a while.)
RadicalTaoist 05-07-07, 03:59 PM	Speaking as an Aikidoka, I have seen what could easily been the entire Setting Sun school in my personal experience (Mighty Throw, Tornado Throw, Counter Charge, Fool's Strike, Shifting Defense, Step of the Wind, Stalking Shadow, Mirrored Pursuit, Shifting Defense, Hydra Slaying Strike, Clever Positioning...). The Elusive Target feat from Complete Warrior is a good Aikidoka feat, as mentioned. Look at Defensive Throw, Clever Wrestling, and Close-Quarters Fighting from that book as well. One thing, unfortunately, that Tome of Battle doesn't cover that well is the grappling aspects of Aikido. Our pins focus more on total immobilization rather than doing damage or attacking with a weapon in the other hand.
wolfie-kun 05-07-07, 07:43 PM	I said tactical feat. I know what Falling Sun Strike does. (We've got a player who plans on combining that with the Pharaoh's Fist feat from Sandstorm to turn the enemies he throws into tiny stun grenades.) That's what I get for not sleeping enough. Can't even catch something that obvious...
ThkkBldstrm 05-08-07, 12:26 AM	for the grappling aspect, "crushing weight of the mountain" works well, (3rd level stance), "assassins stance" (also 3rd level)... or if you're looking for a non-martial solution (seems like you're fine with it though), a couple levels in rogue and the PrC Reaping Mauler from CW also could work. as for feats, I think superior unarmed strike (from ToB) is a must have ( it gives a sort of "lesser" version of the monks unarmed damage) on a side note, have you thought of making it a dwarf? It would synergize nicely with "counter charge" if they happen to bullrush you while charging.