Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kaligrad 06-12-06, 11:10 AM	I believe that my alchemist class is well done and reletively well balanced. Imagine my dismay when I find that very few of you seem to have seen or heard of it. But then it occurs to me as I scroll through the nine pages of my hard drive copy that, perhaps, some of you don't want to read that much in one post. So, I shall re-post it, with only the bare bones explained! Remember, if you don't quite understand a class feature, it is explained in full on the regular post in my signature. Alchemist (Redux) BAB Medium Fort and Will good saves Armor and Weapon Proficiencies: Alchemists are proficient in all simple weapons and light armor. They get a straight +5% to all spell failure chance, but no spell they cast has a verbal component. Spells: Alchemists cast spells like bards in terms of spells per day and spells known. Retrofit (Su):Alchemists can improve weapons and armor, but only if they have the requisite craft skill. Weapons are improved by +1 at first level, +2 at 8th, +3 at 14th, and +4 at 20th. Armor check penalties go down by the same amounts, and arcane spell failure goes down in 5% increments. The bonus is "alchemy," so it stacks. The bonus is temporary, and lasts for one encounter (when it's used) per level. Sabotage (Ex): Alchemists get a +2 damage bonus against objects and constructs, which increases by +2 at every 5th level (5, 10, 15, 20) up to +10 at 20th. Alchemy Vials (Su) Alchemists can throw vials at things. They deal 1d6 damage initially, and go up by 1d6 every 3rd level (4, 7, 10, 13, 16, 19). An alchemist starts with one type of elemental damage (electrical, fire, acid, cold, sonic), and gets an extra one every 5th level. Sonic can only be picked at 10th level and above. Alchemists get a maximum of 2 vials per level, and need an alchemy lab to restock. Alchemists throw vials like they were regular thrown weapons and they had Quick Draw, and can throw other grenade type things the same way. Vials have a range increment of 10ft., but are a ranged touch attack. Trapfinding (Ex): Like a rogue. Item Knowledge (Ex): Alchemists auto identify items worth class level squared x 100 at 2nd level. Kitcrafting (Ex): Alchemists at 3rd level can make a kit that gives a +2 (circumstance) to any skill. Limit one per person, no trading, and it gets used up after a number of uses equal to the alchemist's level. Trapsense (Ex): Also like a rogue. Minor Creation (Sp): One use as the spell per day at 6th level. Construct Retrofit (Su): Retrofit applies to constructs at 9th level, and the alchemist gets Craft Construct for free. It improves AC and atk bonus. Bonuses are permanent on a homunculus. Fabricate (Sp): Also as the spell once per day at 12th level. Minor creation can be used twice now. Combat Retrofit (Su): At 15th level, Weapons get a +4 atk when retrofitted, and armor gets a +4 AC. Extra bonus only lasts 1/3 as long, though. Major Creation (Sp): Once per day as the spell at 18th level. Fabricate goes to twice, and minor goes to 3 times. Philosopher's Stone at 20th level, alchemists make a stone on a ring (doesn't count against limit) that can turn 10 pounds of lead into 500gp, or cast ressurection (once a week either way). Spell List 0th level: Arcane mark, dancing lights, detect magic, light, mage hand, mending, message, open/close, prestidigitation, repair minor damage*, resistance, read magic 1st level: alarm, animate rope, backbiter*, enlarge person, erase, expeditious retreat, featherfall, grease, hold portal, jump, low-light vision, mage armor, magic weapon, protection from chaos, protection from evil, protection from good, protection from law, reduce person, repair light damage*, true strike 2nd level: alter self, arcane lock, bear's endurance, blades of fire*, bull's strength, continual flame, darkvision, eagle's splendor, earthen grasp*, fog cloud, fox's cunning, knock, Melf's acid arrow, owl's wisdom, protection from arrows, pyrotechnics, repair moderate damage*, resist energy, rope trick, shatter, spider climb, swim* 3rd level: bands of steel*, dispel magic, flame arrow, gentle repose, haste, illusory script, keen edge, greater mage armor, magic circle against chaos, magic circle against evil, magic circle against good, magic circle against law, greater magic weapon, minor creation, protection from energy, repair serious damage*, secret page, sepia's snake sigil, shrink item, sign of sealing*, slow, stony grasp*, waterbreathing 4th level: animate dead, contagion, mass darkvision*, mass enlarge person, fabricate, fire shield, mass reduce person, repair critical damage*, permanancy, polymorph, mass resist energy*, stone shape, wall of fire, wall of ice 5th level: break enchantment, mass fireshield*, leomund's secret chest, magic jar, major creation, symbol of pain, symbol of sleep, transmute mud to rock, transmute rock to mud, wall of stone 6th level: analyze dweomer, mass bear's endurance, mass bull's strength, mass cat's grace, mass eagle's splendor, flesh to stone, mass fox's cunning, mass owl's wisdom, greater sign of sealing*, similacrum, stone to flesh, symbol of fear, wall of iron *Spells are from Complete Arcane
Kaligrad 06-12-06, 11:17 AM	New Feats Durable Retrofit Prerequisite: Retrofit class ability Benefit: All Retrofit powers last an additional 3 encounter/days. Basically, your level can be considered 3 higher for the purposes of retrofit duration. This ability applies to Retrofit, Construct Retrofit, and Combat Retrofit. In the case of Combat Retrofit, however, this feat only adds 1 encounter/day. Special: This feat can be taken multiple times. Each time, it adds an additional 3 encounter/days. Extra Vials Put a few new loops in your belt, I'm sure it'll hold more. Prerequisite: Alchemy Vial class ability Benefit: You can prepare an additional 5 vials beyond your level limit. Special: This feat can be taken multiple times. Each time, it adds 5 more vials to your total limit. Explosive Vials Pack in a few expanding gasses, it'll knock them off their feet. Prerequisite: Alchemy Vial class ability Benefit: If an enemy takes damage from any alchemy vial you throw, he must make a Reflex save (DC 10+1/2 character level+Int modifier) or fall prone. Note that any bonus against trip attempts applies to this Reflex save, so a dwarf's Stability special ability applies, as well as the bonus for extra legs, and large and larger creature's bonus. Splashing Vials Water down the potion a little, and it'll fly farther on impact. Prerequisite: Alchemy Vial class ability Benefit: Alchemy Vials now deal splash damage. If an attack with the alchemy vial is successful, then creatures within 5 feet of the target (or one of the target's squares, if it is bigger than 5ftx5ft) take 1d6 points of damage of the applicable element type, regardless of the damage of the alchemy vial itself. Forceful Vials It's a supernatural ability. It doesn't have to make sense. Prerequisite: Alchemy Vial 5d6 Benefit: You gain the ability to deal Force damage with your alchemy vials. Force vials are prepared in the same way as normal, but are considered 2 vials for the purposes of maximum capacity. Aerodynamic Vials Through a little training, plus some new vial shapes, you can now throw the vials farther. Prerequisite: Alchemy Vial special ability Benefit: The throwing range increment of the alchemy vials increases to 20 feet. Normal: The throwing range increment of alchemy vials is 10 feet Spontaneous Recombustion Oh, crap! A troll! Prerequisite: Alchemy Vial special ability; two or more elemental types for alchemy vials. Benefit: The alchemist may take two vials of different elements and combine them to create a third, new element type. This use requires a move action to do, and consumes both vials used. For instance, an alchemist with this feat may combine a vial of fire damage and acid damage to create a vial of cold damage, but only if cold is on his list of available elements. Special: Other alchemists' vials can be used for this feat, so long as the desired element is on the user's element list. The vial created in this manner counts as a vial made by the combiner only for the purpose of penalties. Alchemy Bombs Bad men go boom. Prerequisite: Alchemy Vial 4d6 Benefit: The alchemist is now able to craft bombs using his alchemy vial special ability. Bombs are set with fuses with a length between 1 round to 1 minute. The fuse's length is set at the time of activation, rather than at its creation. Note that bombs do not have to be thrown, and the fuses do not need to be lit as soon as they are set. When the bomb explodes, it deals full damage of its elemental type to anyone within a 10 ft radius, with a reduction of 1d6 for every 10 feet after that. For instance, an acid bomb with 4d6 damage will deal 4d6 damage to anyone in a 10ft radius, 3d6 damage in a 20ft radius, 2d6 damage in a 30ft radius, and 1d6 damage in a 40ft radius. Anyone affected by the bomb may make a Reflex save (DC 10+1/2 character level+Int mod) to take half damage. Bombs are prepared in the same manner as normal, but are considered 4 vials for the purposes of maximum capacity. Special: Force bombs (see above) are considered 5 vials, rather than 6 or 8. For this purpose, bombs are 3 more than normal, and force is 1 more than normal, adding up to 1+1+3.
Kaligrad 06-12-06, 11:19 AM	Alchemy Circle Metamagic Alchemy circles allow spellcasters to sacrifice time for spell levels. While this allows them to use metamagic on spells otherwise too high in level, it requires too much time to be used in combat, and can only be used a certain number of times per day. Additionally, no spell can be augmented by more than one Alchemy Circle Metamagic feat, though it can be affected by other metamagic feats (except Still Spell). Circle Empower Spell (Metamagic) Benefit: This works as Empower Spell, except as follows. Instead of using up a slot two higher than normal, increase the casting time of the spell by 20 minutes. Circle Empower Spell can only be used three times per day, and cannot be used with any other Circle Metamagic feat. Circle Enlarge Spell (Metamagic) Benefit: This works as Enlarge Spell, except as follows. Instead of using a slot one higher, add 10 minutes to the casting time. Circle Enlarge Spell can only be used four times per day, and cannot be used with any other Circle Metamagic feat. Circle Extend Spell (Metamagic) Benefit: This works as Extend Spell, except as follows. Instead of using a slot one higher, add 10 minutes to the casting time. Circle Enlarge Spell can only be used four times per day, and cannot be used with any other Circle Metamagic feat. Circle Maximize Spell (Metamagic) Benefit: This works as Mazimize Spell, except as follows. Instead of using a slot three higher, add 30 minutes to the casting time. Circle Maximize Spell can only be used twice per day, and cannot be used with any other Circle Metamagic feat. Circle Silent Spell (Metamagic) Benefit: This works as Silent Spell, except as follows. Instead of using a slot one higher, add 10 minutes to the casting time. Circle Silent Spell can only be used four times per day, and cannot be used with any other Circle Metamagic feat. Circle Widen Spell (Metamagic) Benefit: This works as Widen Spell, except as follows. Instead of using a slot three higher, add 30 minutes to the casting time. Circle Widen Spell can only be used twice per day, and cannot be used with any other Circle Metamagic feat.
Chaoswarrior 06-12-06, 12:17 PM	Okay first I would drop the +5% spell failure and give them the armored mage ability/feat? (cant remember which it is). And I dont really see the reason that an alchemist would have trapfinding, so I would drop that. The retrofit ability is worded badly. I would drop the /days and make the ability last for however many encounters /level. Or if you felt the need to keep it the way it is you need to clarify it some. I would list in your special abilities the quick draw feat at whatever level the alchemist gets it. And finally, I dont like the so many vials per level. He can make them or he cant. I would allow him to create the basic 1d6 vials and when he throws them at higher levels he has to add an ingredient to them at the last minute that adds the higher damage and the vials become highly volitile, which is why he cant make 100 7d6 vials. Or leave it as is without the level limit and let the pcs carry around a bunch of these vials and fall in a 20' pit and watch the fireworks! (I had a fellow pc that liked to carry a backpack full of greek fire that this happened to)
Kaligrad 06-12-06, 04:44 PM	Okay first I would drop the +5% spell failure and give them the armored mage ability/feat? (cant remember which it is). I happen to think that effectively giving them Silent Spell balances out the spell failure. And I dont really see the reason that an alchemist would have trapfinding, so I would drop that. It is explained in the more detailed thread that alchemists can also improve traps with their retrofit ability. They have trapfinding to represent how often they are on the trapsetting side of things. The retrofit ability is worded badly. I would drop the /days and make the ability last for however many encounters /level. Or if you felt the need to keep it the way it is you need to clarify it some. This is done in the extended thread. I would list in your special abilities the quick draw feat at whatever level the alchemist gets it. I don't want them throwing just anything, only vials. And finally, I dont like the so many vials per level. He can make them or he cant. I would allow him to create the basic 1d6 vials and when he throws them at higher levels he has to add an ingredient to them at the last minute that adds the higher damage and the vials become highly volitile, which is why he cant make 100 7d6 vials. Or leave it as is without the level limit and let the pcs carry around a bunch of these vials and fall in a 20' pit and watch the fireworks! (I had a fellow pc that liked to carry a backpack full of greek fire that this happened to) I like to think of it as the alchemist charging up each chemical reaction with his own magic, and he thus has a limit on how much he can charge at once, governed by his level. Also, I do think the Warlock's little infinite rocket launcher is too much. If you build it right, all you have to do is just stand there during combat and hurl arcane bolts. But you know what? You're right. Screw days/use.
Chaoswarrior 06-12-06, 06:27 PM	I happen to think that effectively giving them Silent Spell balances out the spell failure. Maybe reduce spell failure as alchemist grows more proficient? I hate to think he would be stuck with the 5% failure regardless, even if he wears no armor. It is explained in the more detailed thread that alchemists can also improve traps with their retrofit ability. They have trapfinding to represent how often they are on the trapsetting side of things. I read that, but still doesnt seem to fit with idea of class. Maybe a trapmaking via alchemical means, but trapfinding still doesnt seem to fit. This is done in the extended thread. Read that. OKAY I don't want them throwing just anything, only vials. I wouldnt limit their means of attacking. If you keep the /day vials, then definitely let them throw stones, daggers, something. Gotta stay alive man! :dancin: I like to think of it as the alchemist charging up each chemical reaction with his own magic, and he thus has a limit on how much he can charge at once, governed by his level. Also, I do think the Warlock's little infinite rocket launcher is too much. If you build it right, all you have to do is just stand there during combat and hurl arcane bolts. I know how working on an ideal is, but for overall fairness for someone playing the character, it would have to have more uses than the /day. Especially if you were in a large dungeon setting. You would become useless very quickly after 5-6 encounters. But you know what? You're right. Screw days/use. Glad you see it my way. :cheer: Your fellow alchemist will thank you! :D
Kaligrad 06-12-06, 06:46 PM	It's not per day. If an alchemist has consistant access to an alchemy lab, he can make any number of vials; just up to twice character level at once. Besides, the retrofit ability is what keeps him useful during a long dungeon; the bonuses practically even him out with a full BAB class. But, hmm, you give me an idea. Check the retrofit ability again.
Insane Pixie 06-12-06, 06:48 PM	Being a poster who was around for the original thread (and posted a lot of criticisms and suggestions the first few pages), I still stand adamant by my belief that the metamagic alchemy circles are pointless. The only real use they have is for either a trap, or if your planning on leading a foe onto a pre-prepared one (close enough to a trap). I'd agree that you did a good job improving the alchemist's role in melee with the vials, as it was extremely lacking back when you first wrote it, but it could still use some improvements. I suggest you just repost the entire class, class code and all, and call it the "Alchemist CC, v2.0". This format makes it extremely hard to read and comment in, and more info is needed for most of the abilities to make any criticism. EDIT:IIf an alchemist has consistant access to an alchemy lab, he can make any number of vials; just up to twice character level at once. Teehee. My idea from last year.
Kaligrad 06-12-06, 06:51 PM	The regular alchemist thread is consistently updated, and has actually gone through several overhauls since you posted last. If you want to see it again, it is linked in my signature, and if you want to see it on the board again, simply post on it. ...and thanks to the removal of alchemy circles from the class and into freestanding metamagic feats, it doesn't matter whether you think it's useless or not. You don't have to take the feats, after all. And yes, giving them to a BBEG would actually allow for some pretty neat traps when the PC's are going through his lair.
Chaoswarrior 06-12-06, 08:14 PM	It's not per day. If an alchemist has consistant access to an alchemy lab, he can make any number of vials; just up to twice character level at once. Besides, the retrofit ability is what keeps him useful during a long dungeon; the bonuses practically even him out with a full BAB class. But, hmm, you give me an idea. Check the retrofit ability again. OHH I like that. Useful to other arcane casters and to yourself..GOOD IDEA. It's not per day. If an alchemist has consistant access to an alchemy lab, he can make any number of vials; just up to twice character level at once. Besides, the retrofit ability is what keeps him useful during a long dungeon; the bonuses practically even him out with a full BAB class. But, hmm, you give me an idea. Check the retrofit ability again. How much ingredients? do you have to have to create the vials? Do you have to have access to an alchemy lab (yes I know it says you do in the actual class post) or just alchemy supplies you can carry with you? Because if you have to be in a lab, that is going to hinder any pc. Having to search out another alchemist every time you go into town would stink, especially if you are in a remote area. Maybe part of the ability could be to turn ordinary plants, animal parts, whatever into vials. ...and thanks to the removal of alchemy circles from the class and into freestanding metamagic feats, it doesn't matter whether you think it's useless or not. You don't have to take the feats, after all. And yes, giving them to a BBEG would actually allow for some pretty neat traps when the PC's are going through his lair. Yeah to keep with the flavor of this class, even though a pc isnt likely to take them, the feats would be very good to give to the BBEG alchemist. Would really display the potential of the class as an NPC.
Kaligrad 06-12-06, 09:40 PM	An Alchemist's Lab (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#alchemistsLab) costs 500gp and weighs 40lbs. A starting alchemist will most likely have to rely more on his retrofit ability at first, but after he can afford the first bag of holding (2,500gp) he will be set for life. There is no cost in materials, and each vial only requires one minute per vial in order to be ready for the next combat. It can be done even sooner with the aid of a donkey and some saddlebags, whose additional cost is only 12gp.
FatMonkey13 06-12-06, 10:33 PM	At 20th level you get 40 7d6 Alchemy Vials. You can throw three per round (or 4 if you use haste). That is 28d6 damage with no SR, or save and is done through 15/15/10/5 touch attacks (7d6 damage per attack). The series of 4 attacks can be done 10 times a day. It seems to be a solid combat class with excellent buffing ability. Its trap finding makes it also able to do some of the Rogue’s work as well. I think that it would be more balanced with a low base attack bonus progression (like a Wizard) as it is expected to make touch attacks. Also I think that it would improve balance if it retained the Disable Device part of trapfinding but not the Search part (or Trapsense class feature) but instead had the Find Traps spell on its spell list
Daisuke 06-13-06, 09:08 AM	One little nitpick: Arcane Spell Failure affects the Somatic Component not the Verbal Component.
Chaoswarrior 06-13-06, 05:32 PM	At 20th level you get 40 7d6 Alchemy Vials. You can throw three per round (or 4 if you use haste). That is 28d6 damage with no SR, or save and is done through 15/15/10/5 touch attacks (7d6 damage per attack). The series of 4 attacks can be done 10 times a day. It seems to be a solid combat class with excellent buffing ability. Its trap finding makes it also able to do some of the Rogue’s work as well. I think that it would be more balanced with a low base attack bonus progression (like a Wizard) as it is expected to make touch attacks. Also I think that it would improve balance if it retained the Disable Device part of trapfinding but not the Search part (or Trapsense class feature) but instead had the Find Traps spell on its spell list At a range of 10', I dont think that is overpowered. And that is IF all 4 hit. One little nitpick: Arcane Spell Failure affects the Somatic Component not the Verbal Component. I'd go ahead and use standard spell failure for armor, but go ahead and retrofit your own armor to reduce the penalty. Or go with the armored mage ability like the warmage. I really dont like the 5% failure without cause.
Kaligrad 06-13-06, 05:44 PM	I know that ASF affects somatic spells. What I said about that is that all alchemists treat their spells as though there were no verbal component, period. Any spell on their list that would say verbal only, is now somatic only instead. In essence, all alchemists have the Silent Spell metamagic feat for free, and without a spell level boost. As such, I don't think that it's very much for me to give them a +5% ASF in exchange, especially when they can fix it themselves. Also, that's a 10 ft range increment. They can throw them up to 50 ft, but at a -8 (or up to 100 ft, if they get the feat).
Chaoswarrior 06-13-06, 06:08 PM	How would they reduce the 5%. If he has no armor on, the alchemist still has a 5% spell failure. Can they retrofit something to reduce a "class" penalty and not an armor one? Also, that's a 10 ft range increment. They can throw them up to 50 ft, but at a -8 (or up to 100 ft, if they get the feat). But at 19-20th level taking that kind of penalty is throwing vials in the wind when fighting high CR monsters.
Kaligrad 06-14-06, 05:40 AM	How would they reduce the 5%. If he has no armor on, the alchemist still has a 5% spell failure. Can they retrofit something to reduce a "class" penalty and not an armor one? Ah, I see you misunderstand. The 5% penalty is not an overall failure, but rather an additional percent tacked on to any armor. For instance, the alchemist would get a 10% failure chance when wearing padded armor, as opposed to the usual 5%. A chain shirt would cause a 25% failure, and so on. This failure, however, only applies when the alchemist wears armor; they can cast their spells normally otherwise. I believe that was made clear in the regular thread.