Alienist Re-Vamp [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alienist Re-Vamp [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ClockworkRevenge
03-30-08, 07:26 PM IMO, the Alienist is a great concept, that isn’t so well executed, so I have sense put myself to the task of making it a more RPable class. What I mean by that is that its benefits are far outweighed by its cons: By the end of the class you basically can’t engage anyone in society you’re so gimped. Below are my first few ideas about what the class should get, however the costs of the classes benefits haven’t been nailed down, I’m pretty sure I want costs/drawbacks/cons on the order of: permanent penalties to wisdom, minuses to some social skills (Not to the extent that the original Alienist PrC prescribes), and an increased vulnerability to fear/confusion/insanity spells or effects. Please critique. Also, this is a very informal version, still just playing around with ideas. Thanks

Alien Summons: Obviously the alienist should be able to summon psudonatural creatures, or creatures with the "half far-spawn template" (in game though such creatures would be assumed to be whole far spawn, as opposed to half), also I think the summons list should be limited to your aberrations (With the psudonatural/half far spawn template) and twisted elementals: your grues, your "blood elementals".

Secrets of the Far Realm: The PC chooses from a list of three benefits:
A Metamagic Feat
+1 CL for a given school of magic
-1 cost to use metamagic for a given school of magic
(Here’s where I would imagine the heaviest draw backs would come from, additional choice suggestions welcomed.)

Unnerved Certainty, Mad Certainty, Insane Certainty:
The original Alienist has a pathetic entry for this (+3 HP?!?), so I'm looking for brand new psychological suggestions for a theme ability or resource.

Alien Famillair:
The characters familiar, if any, would gain the psudonatural or far spawn template, if they don’t have a familiar they get no benefit, however, if the PC used one of the UA variants that allows them to lose a familiar and gain an ability, levels of Alienist stack for the purposes of determining those abilities- still no familiar though

Alien Transcendence: the original version of this seemed fine, suggests still appreciated though, I am considering wraping it together with timeless body.

The class would also receive full spell casting progression, d4 HD, +2 skill points per level, and have the same class skills as a wizard, plus spot, listen, and gather information.

Thanks for your suggestions in advance!
Awesome_Dude
03-30-08, 07:31 PM I changed it a couple of years ago and based it off the taint mechanic in Heroes of Horror (specifically, depravity). I'll see if I can find it.
ClockworkRevenge
03-30-08, 08:29 PM :bump:
ClockworkRevenge
03-31-08, 12:54 AM :bump:
Awesome_Dude
03-31-08, 01:10 AM You're not allowed to bump a thread more than once every 48 hours.
ClockworkRevenge
03-31-08, 09:59 AM >.> Sue me?

Im impatient?
Awesome_Dude
03-31-08, 11:27 AM >.> Sue me?
More like ban you, but I'm sure they're willing to give you a chance seeing as you're new.

(I didn't report you BTW)
ClockworkRevenge
03-31-08, 02:43 PM I pray people arnt so uptight here -.-; Lawful taken to the extreme in the real world? i think so.
Sinfire Titan
03-31-08, 03:19 PM The consensus from the CO boards about the Alienist isn't that it is a bad PrC, it is that there are better options for summoners. It gives full casting progression, which is all it needs to do, but the abilities it has are outshined by Incanatrix, Shadowcraft Mage, Master Specialist, and other 10/10 and even 4/5 class like War Weaver.

Honestly, Summoning is best left to Planar Binding, Planar Ally, or a Druid. Summon Monster only has two good levels, the SM 3 and SM 7 are considered the best of the 9. Mass summon spells like Pride of the Beastlands, Abyssal Army, and others have large casting times that need shenanigans to pull off mid-combat if you didn't expect the enemy. This is the flaw with the Alienist, it is just a tad too focused to be considered worthwhile.
ClockworkRevenge
03-31-08, 05:04 PM Honestly, Summoning is best left to Planar Binding, Planar Ally, or a Druid. Summon Monster only has two good levels, the SM 3 and SM 7 are considered the best of the 9. Mass summon spells like Pride of the Beastlands, Abyssal Army, and others have large casting times that need shenanigans to pull off mid-combat if you didn't expect the enemy. This is the flaw with the Alienist, it is just a tad too focused to be considered worthwhile.

Abyssal Army and those other mass summons are garbage anyway, unless you want a ton of worthless little creatures. At anyrate, my point is that i intend to make the Alienist a good summoning class, shortly ill bring my full concept here to be PEACHED. Also, according to my calculations, the Summon Monster CR count goes like this: 1/2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, respectivly. So i dont see why summon monster 3 and 7 should be the best when there is an ordered progression, especially if the DM allows the PC to take any creature they want as long as its within the CR parameters.

So essentially, i realize that there are better choices for a summoner than the Alienist, but i happen to like the idea of the Alienist, so im going to make a PrC for it that is on par with the others you mentioned.
Sinfire Titan
03-31-08, 05:09 PM Abyssal Army and those other mass summons are garbage anyway, unless you want a ton of worthless little creatures. At anyrate, my point is that i intend to make the Alienist a good summoning class, shortly ill bring my full concept here to be PEACHED. Also, according to my calculations, the Summon Monster CR count goes like this: 1/2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, respectivly. So i dont see why summon monster 3 and 7 should be the best when there is an ordered progression, especially if the DM allows the PC to take any creature they want as long as its within the CR parameters.

So essentially, i realize that there are better choices for a summoner than the Alienist, but i happen to like the idea of the Alienist, so im going to make a PrC for it that is on par with the others you mentioned.

3 and 7 both have good summons outside of Core.
ClockworkRevenge
03-31-08, 05:13 PM 3 and 7 both have good summons outside of Core. Dont suppose you know them specificly or their CR so i can update my table? Besides, summoning aside, the -10 to most social skills the alienist eventually takes makes them essentially impossible to RP, how can this be considered a good class??
Sinfire Titan
03-31-08, 05:22 PM Dont suppose you know them specificly or their CR so i can update my table? Besides, summoning aside, the -10 to most social skills the alienist eventually takes makes them essentially impossible to RP, how can this be considered a good class??

MM3, FF, and MM4/MM5 have good summons for all of them. And Elemental Summons are always a good way to own the day.

And whoever said the Alienist was supposed to be the party's face? -10 Diplomacy? Meet Charm/Dominate Person.
ClockworkRevenge
03-31-08, 05:33 PM im still making a varient :tantrum:
Zachariah
04-01-08, 12:05 AM The concept of the alianist is really cool. And you are correct, the given one just doesnt cut it. So, its also on my list for remaking, as the Far Realm is a key element in my CP setting. I wish you good luck with your attempt. Make something nice out of it, ill be looking forward to it.
ClockworkRevenge
04-01-08, 12:18 AM The concept of the alianist is really cool. And you are correct, the given one just doesnt cut it. So, its also on my list for remaking, as the Far Realm is a key element in my CP setting. I wish you good luck with your attempt. Make something nice out of it, ill be looking forward to it.

FINIALLY some encouragment lol, thank you, ill make sure to send you a message when its ready to get PEACHed

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ClockworkRevenge 03-30-08, 07:26 PM	IMO, the Alienist is a great concept, that isn’t so well executed, so I have sense put myself to the task of making it a more RPable class. What I mean by that is that its benefits are far outweighed by its cons: By the end of the class you basically can’t engage anyone in society you’re so gimped. Below are my first few ideas about what the class should get, however the costs of the classes benefits haven’t been nailed down, I’m pretty sure I want costs/drawbacks/cons on the order of: permanent penalties to wisdom, minuses to some social skills (Not to the extent that the original Alienist PrC prescribes), and an increased vulnerability to fear/confusion/insanity spells or effects. Please critique. Also, this is a very informal version, still just playing around with ideas. Thanks Alien Summons: Obviously the alienist should be able to summon psudonatural creatures, or creatures with the "half far-spawn template" (in game though such creatures would be assumed to be whole far spawn, as opposed to half), also I think the summons list should be limited to your aberrations (With the psudonatural/half far spawn template) and twisted elementals: your grues, your "blood elementals". Secrets of the Far Realm: The PC chooses from a list of three benefits: A Metamagic Feat +1 CL for a given school of magic -1 cost to use metamagic for a given school of magic (Here’s where I would imagine the heaviest draw backs would come from, additional choice suggestions welcomed.) Unnerved Certainty, Mad Certainty, Insane Certainty: The original Alienist has a pathetic entry for this (+3 HP?!?), so I'm looking for brand new psychological suggestions for a theme ability or resource. Alien Famillair: The characters familiar, if any, would gain the psudonatural or far spawn template, if they don’t have a familiar they get no benefit, however, if the PC used one of the UA variants that allows them to lose a familiar and gain an ability, levels of Alienist stack for the purposes of determining those abilities- still no familiar though Alien Transcendence: the original version of this seemed fine, suggests still appreciated though, I am considering wraping it together with timeless body. The class would also receive full spell casting progression, d4 HD, +2 skill points per level, and have the same class skills as a wizard, plus spot, listen, and gather information. Thanks for your suggestions in advance!
Awesome_Dude 03-30-08, 07:31 PM	I changed it a couple of years ago and based it off the taint mechanic in Heroes of Horror (specifically, depravity). I'll see if I can find it.
ClockworkRevenge 03-30-08, 08:29 PM	:bump:
ClockworkRevenge 03-31-08, 12:54 AM	:bump:
Awesome_Dude 03-31-08, 01:10 AM	You're not allowed to bump a thread more than once every 48 hours.
ClockworkRevenge 03-31-08, 09:59 AM	>.> Sue me? Im impatient?
Awesome_Dude 03-31-08, 11:27 AM	>.> Sue me? More like ban you, but I'm sure they're willing to give you a chance seeing as you're new. (I didn't report you BTW)
ClockworkRevenge 03-31-08, 02:43 PM	I pray people arnt so uptight here -.-; Lawful taken to the extreme in the real world? i think so.
Sinfire Titan 03-31-08, 03:19 PM	The consensus from the CO boards about the Alienist isn't that it is a bad PrC, it is that there are better options for summoners. It gives full casting progression, which is all it needs to do, but the abilities it has are outshined by Incanatrix, Shadowcraft Mage, Master Specialist, and other 10/10 and even 4/5 class like War Weaver. Honestly, Summoning is best left to Planar Binding, Planar Ally, or a Druid. Summon Monster only has two good levels, the SM 3 and SM 7 are considered the best of the 9. Mass summon spells like Pride of the Beastlands, Abyssal Army, and others have large casting times that need shenanigans to pull off mid-combat if you didn't expect the enemy. This is the flaw with the Alienist, it is just a tad too focused to be considered worthwhile.
ClockworkRevenge 03-31-08, 05:04 PM	Honestly, Summoning is best left to Planar Binding, Planar Ally, or a Druid. Summon Monster only has two good levels, the SM 3 and SM 7 are considered the best of the 9. Mass summon spells like Pride of the Beastlands, Abyssal Army, and others have large casting times that need shenanigans to pull off mid-combat if you didn't expect the enemy. This is the flaw with the Alienist, it is just a tad too focused to be considered worthwhile. Abyssal Army and those other mass summons are garbage anyway, unless you want a ton of worthless little creatures. At anyrate, my point is that i intend to make the Alienist a good summoning class, shortly ill bring my full concept here to be PEACHED. Also, according to my calculations, the Summon Monster CR count goes like this: 1/2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, respectivly. So i dont see why summon monster 3 and 7 should be the best when there is an ordered progression, especially if the DM allows the PC to take any creature they want as long as its within the CR parameters. So essentially, i realize that there are better choices for a summoner than the Alienist, but i happen to like the idea of the Alienist, so im going to make a PrC for it that is on par with the others you mentioned.
Sinfire Titan 03-31-08, 05:09 PM	Abyssal Army and those other mass summons are garbage anyway, unless you want a ton of worthless little creatures. At anyrate, my point is that i intend to make the Alienist a good summoning class, shortly ill bring my full concept here to be PEACHED. Also, according to my calculations, the Summon Monster CR count goes like this: 1/2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, respectivly. So i dont see why summon monster 3 and 7 should be the best when there is an ordered progression, especially if the DM allows the PC to take any creature they want as long as its within the CR parameters. So essentially, i realize that there are better choices for a summoner than the Alienist, but i happen to like the idea of the Alienist, so im going to make a PrC for it that is on par with the others you mentioned. 3 and 7 both have good summons outside of Core.
ClockworkRevenge 03-31-08, 05:13 PM	3 and 7 both have good summons outside of Core. Dont suppose you know them specificly or their CR so i can update my table? Besides, summoning aside, the -10 to most social skills the alienist eventually takes makes them essentially impossible to RP, how can this be considered a good class??
Sinfire Titan 03-31-08, 05:22 PM	Dont suppose you know them specificly or their CR so i can update my table? Besides, summoning aside, the -10 to most social skills the alienist eventually takes makes them essentially impossible to RP, how can this be considered a good class?? MM3, FF, and MM4/MM5 have good summons for all of them. And Elemental Summons are always a good way to own the day. And whoever said the Alienist was supposed to be the party's face? -10 Diplomacy? Meet Charm/Dominate Person.
ClockworkRevenge 03-31-08, 05:33 PM	im still making a varient :tantrum:
Zachariah 04-01-08, 12:05 AM	The concept of the alianist is really cool. And you are correct, the given one just doesnt cut it. So, its also on my list for remaking, as the Far Realm is a key element in my CP setting. I wish you good luck with your attempt. Make something nice out of it, ill be looking forward to it.
ClockworkRevenge 04-01-08, 12:18 AM	The concept of the alianist is really cool. And you are correct, the given one just doesnt cut it. So, its also on my list for remaking, as the Far Realm is a key element in my CP setting. I wish you good luck with your attempt. Make something nice out of it, ill be looking forward to it. FINIALLY some encouragment lol, thank you, ill make sure to send you a message when its ready to get PEACHed