allowed human dual classes [Archive] - Wizards Community

allowed human dual classes [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
wargrem0n
11-08-05, 07:00 PM ive never played befor and I soon will but I would like to know if it is at all possible to have a human necromancer and then turn him into a palidin and still raise the dead
Zetakya
11-08-05, 07:05 PM No. Raising the dead is an evil action, and the Paladin would instantly fall upon doing so, and cease to be a Paladin.
wargrem0n
11-08-05, 07:22 PM how about palidin to necro and keep the healing abilities?
Sledged
11-08-05, 07:26 PM So long as you remain true to your alignment, you keep all paladin class features you've gained.
Terratek
11-08-05, 07:57 PM The problem is that all the spells that create undead creatures, as well as several other key necromantic spells, have the Evil descriptor, meaning that using those spells is an inherently evil act. A paladin must, in order to keep any class features except attack and save bonuses, skills, hit die, and weapon and armor proficiencies, adhere strictly to the principles of law and good.
Oliver D'Argent
11-08-05, 08:01 PM how about palidin to necro and keep the healing abilities?

Since a Lawful Good Necromancer seems pretty unlikely, probably not.
DarknessEternal
11-09-05, 12:51 AM Using a spell with the [Evil] descriptor is no more makes one evil as using a spell with the [Fire] descriptor makes one into fire.

Incidently, actions in D&D are not evil nor good. Motive is.
rampant
11-09-05, 12:55 AM unfortunately use of a spell or item withan evil descriptor still costs the paladin it abilities its considered a breach of the paladin's code
Bounces
11-09-05, 01:06 AM I agree with Rampant...as a DM that's how I would interpet it.

Now you could do Paladin/Necro/BlackGuard
Jaid
11-09-05, 10:18 AM actually, casting a spell with the [evil] descriptor may not make you evil, but it *is* an evil act. which would cost the paladin their paladin-y-ness :P

however, there are some spells in the necromancy school that are not [evil], and those would be perfectly fine for the paladin to cast. provided, of course, that you don't do something evil with them. (for example, by some odd twist of fate, enervation is not [evil], yet people killed by it turn into wights. as a DM, i would have to rule that the creation of wights is at least as much an act of evil as the creation of skeletons and zombies, personally...)
DarknessEternal
11-09-05, 03:55 PM Where are you finding this rule stating casting an [Evil] spell is an evil act?

Specifically, where are you finding such a rule consider the rules for alignment have nothing to do with actions, only motivation.
caeruleus
11-09-05, 04:18 PM Where are you finding this rule stating casting an [Evil] spell is an evil act?

Specifically, where are you finding such a rule consider the rules for alignment have nothing to do with actions, only motivation.

Unable to locate the rule at the moment, but I've definitely seen it.

And the rules for alignment say nothing about motivation either. Motivation and action, while not identical, are not independant either.
Rulebook
11-09-05, 05:19 PM well i found this...

from SRD
Appearing on the same line as the school and subschool, when applicable, is a descriptor that further categorizes the spell in some way. Some spells have more than one descriptor.
The descriptors are acid, air, chaotic, cold, darkness, death, earth, electricity, evil, fear, fire, force, good, language-dependent, lawful, light, mind-affecting, sonic, and water
Most of these descriptors have no game effect by themselves, but they govern how the spell interacts with other spells, with special abilities, with unusual creatures, with alignment, and so on.

A paladin prepares and casts spells the way a cleric does

A cleric can’t cast spells of an alignment opposed to his own or his deity’s (if he has one). Spells associated with particular alignments are indicated by the chaos, evil, good, and law descriptors in their spell descriptions.
Worguron
11-09-05, 06:31 PM I agree with Rulebook on this one. A Paladin can't cast a spell with the [evil] descriptor because as a divine caster it is against his alignment. Fortunately, a neutral divine caster, or any arcane caster could cast any such spell he/she wanted because this restriction would not matter.

Descriptors don't affect your alignment; your alignment affects how you can cast them.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
wargrem0n 11-08-05, 07:00 PM	ive never played befor and I soon will but I would like to know if it is at all possible to have a human necromancer and then turn him into a palidin and still raise the dead
Zetakya 11-08-05, 07:05 PM	No. Raising the dead is an evil action, and the Paladin would instantly fall upon doing so, and cease to be a Paladin.
wargrem0n 11-08-05, 07:22 PM	how about palidin to necro and keep the healing abilities?
Sledged 11-08-05, 07:26 PM	So long as you remain true to your alignment, you keep all paladin class features you've gained.
Terratek 11-08-05, 07:57 PM	The problem is that all the spells that create undead creatures, as well as several other key necromantic spells, have the Evil descriptor, meaning that using those spells is an inherently evil act. A paladin must, in order to keep any class features except attack and save bonuses, skills, hit die, and weapon and armor proficiencies, adhere strictly to the principles of law and good.
Oliver D'Argent 11-08-05, 08:01 PM	how about palidin to necro and keep the healing abilities? Since a Lawful Good Necromancer seems pretty unlikely, probably not.
DarknessEternal 11-09-05, 12:51 AM	Using a spell with the [Evil] descriptor is no more makes one evil as using a spell with the [Fire] descriptor makes one into fire. Incidently, actions in D&D are not evil nor good. Motive is.
rampant 11-09-05, 12:55 AM	unfortunately use of a spell or item withan evil descriptor still costs the paladin it abilities its considered a breach of the paladin's code
Bounces 11-09-05, 01:06 AM	I agree with Rampant...as a DM that's how I would interpet it. Now you could do Paladin/Necro/BlackGuard
Jaid 11-09-05, 10:18 AM	actually, casting a spell with the [evil] descriptor may not make you evil, but it is an evil act. which would cost the paladin their paladin-y-ness :P however, there are some spells in the necromancy school that are not [evil], and those would be perfectly fine for the paladin to cast. provided, of course, that you don't do something evil with them. (for example, by some odd twist of fate, enervation is not [evil], yet people killed by it turn into wights. as a DM, i would have to rule that the creation of wights is at least as much an act of evil as the creation of skeletons and zombies, personally...)
DarknessEternal 11-09-05, 03:55 PM	Where are you finding this rule stating casting an [Evil] spell is an evil act? Specifically, where are you finding such a rule consider the rules for alignment have nothing to do with actions, only motivation.
caeruleus 11-09-05, 04:18 PM	Where are you finding this rule stating casting an [Evil] spell is an evil act? Specifically, where are you finding such a rule consider the rules for alignment have nothing to do with actions, only motivation. Unable to locate the rule at the moment, but I've definitely seen it. And the rules for alignment say nothing about motivation either. Motivation and action, while not identical, are not independant either.
Rulebook 11-09-05, 05:19 PM	well i found this... from SRD Appearing on the same line as the school and subschool, when applicable, is a descriptor that further categorizes the spell in some way. Some spells have more than one descriptor. The descriptors are acid, air, chaotic, cold, darkness, death, earth, electricity, evil, fear, fire, force, good, language-dependent, lawful, light, mind-affecting, sonic, and water Most of these descriptors have no game effect by themselves, but they govern how the spell interacts with other spells, with special abilities, with unusual creatures, with alignment, and so on. A paladin prepares and casts spells the way a cleric does A cleric can’t cast spells of an alignment opposed to his own or his deity’s (if he has one). Spells associated with particular alignments are indicated by the chaos, evil, good, and law descriptors in their spell descriptions.
Worguron 11-09-05, 06:31 PM	I agree with Rulebook on this one. A Paladin can't cast a spell with the [evil] descriptor because as a divine caster it is against his alignment. Fortunately, a neutral divine caster, or any arcane caster could cast any such spell he/she wanted because this restriction would not matter. Descriptors don't affect your alignment; your alignment affects how you can cast them.