Allowing Sorcerors to Specialize in a School [Archive] - Wizards Community

Allowing Sorcerors to Specialize in a School [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lomiir
01-14-05, 11:51 PM I'm in the camp that believes sorcerors are a little underpowered- if you think the class is fine then you don't need to respond saying so...but those of you that do believe so:

Do you think it would be balanced to allow Sorcerors to specialize in a school? Wizards get feats, can specialize, get more skillpoints via their primary casting attribute being INT and get spells faster. Would it throw things out of balance to allow sorcerors to specialize? If either class(flavorwise) should specialize I'd think it to be sorcerors. Wizards read spells from books and memorize them in a much more mechanical manner. Sorcerors I'd think would have more of a "feel" for certain types of spells and thus if they focused on one type they would naturally have an affinity for that type of spells as they are in vibe with it.

Thoughts?
Falkomur
01-15-05, 05:40 AM I was thinking the same thing just lately. I would rule it's ok since it would indeed give the sorcerer some extra feel for some spell-school. Since the sorcerer would be even more limited in his spell selection then he would normally be, I wouldn't think this is overpowered. I say it's ok, just don't see any of my players make use of it, but that's another story. Hope this helped you.
johnboy069
01-15-05, 07:00 AM I agree with you. I think sorcerors should be able to specialize, as magic is more (for lack of a better term) intimate to them.
Nani?
01-15-05, 11:39 AM The Wizard specialist domains in UA look to be a good starting point and easily adapted to sorcerers. They work like cleric domains and rather then being "schools" they have names like "Storm Domain" or "Cold Domain".

All the best,

Nani?
Stuntman
01-15-05, 01:37 PM When I saw the War Mage class, it resembled a specialised Sorcerer. It got me thinking about using a similar mechanic for a specialised Sorcerer. Here's what I came up with as the basis for a specialised Sorcerer:

A specialised sorcerer chooses a single school of magic. He knows every spell from that school. Every few levels (haven't worked it out exactly), the specialised sorcerer can choose to know a new spell from another school. This spell must be at least one level lower than the highest level spell he can cast from his specialised school.

This specialised sorcerer will be very specialised in a single school of magic. He gains some limited flexibility with a few spells outside of his school.

A few things that I need to consider is a specialising in divination. The divination school is considered weaker than the other schools. That is why a divination specialist wizard is only prohibited in one school. To balance this out, perhaps you could allow a divination specialist sorcerer to take a second school as a minor. When he gains spells outside of the divination school every few levels, the spell may be equal to the highest level he can cast if it is from this minor school.

Another thing is the universal magic spells like permanency and wish. I'm not sure if they should be subject to the same restrictions as spells outside of the specialty school. If so, then a sorcerer who specialises can never gain the Wish spell until epic. Perhaps at level 20, the spell he chooses outside of his school of specialty can be level 9.

Comments, suggestions, tweaks and criticism are welcomed.
Orguth the Brawler
01-15-05, 05:12 PM It would seem to me that allowing the Sorcerer to specialize in a school falls under the "Magnify advantages and disadvantages at the same time" no-no for class alteration. The DMG gives as an example making a wizard still better at spellcasting at the expense of still more close combat ability. Seeing as he already is terrible enough at close combat that it's virtually not a cinsideration any longer, he effectively is broken for no penalty. The same logic would apply to the sorcerer being able to specialize. He becomes able to cast even more spells - we're talking 5 1st level spells at lvl 1 if he has a positive Charisma modifier - and better able to deal with and manipulate those given spells, at the expense of a couple schools of magic he wouldn't - and couldn't - have used anyway. Since he has so few spells anyway, chopping a couple more off his options won't matter since he gets to choose so few. It's only a worthwhile penalty for wizards because it invariably seriously cramps their versatility - which is their primary advantage over sorcerers anyhow.

My suggestion for making the sorcerer more powerful - but not broken - is giving them Eschew Materials as a bonus feat at lvl 1, and allowing them to pay Exp costs for materials beyond that. At a 1/2 or 1/4 ratio, maybe. Focii would still be necessary. Additionally, throw in a few more skillpoints, since sorcerers are so much more worldly and don't spend all their time studying.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lomiir 01-14-05, 11:51 PM	I'm in the camp that believes sorcerors are a little underpowered- if you think the class is fine then you don't need to respond saying so...but those of you that do believe so: Do you think it would be balanced to allow Sorcerors to specialize in a school? Wizards get feats, can specialize, get more skillpoints via their primary casting attribute being INT and get spells faster. Would it throw things out of balance to allow sorcerors to specialize? If either class(flavorwise) should specialize I'd think it to be sorcerors. Wizards read spells from books and memorize them in a much more mechanical manner. Sorcerors I'd think would have more of a "feel" for certain types of spells and thus if they focused on one type they would naturally have an affinity for that type of spells as they are in vibe with it. Thoughts?
Falkomur 01-15-05, 05:40 AM	I was thinking the same thing just lately. I would rule it's ok since it would indeed give the sorcerer some extra feel for some spell-school. Since the sorcerer would be even more limited in his spell selection then he would normally be, I wouldn't think this is overpowered. I say it's ok, just don't see any of my players make use of it, but that's another story. Hope this helped you.
johnboy069 01-15-05, 07:00 AM	I agree with you. I think sorcerors should be able to specialize, as magic is more (for lack of a better term) intimate to them.
Nani? 01-15-05, 11:39 AM	The Wizard specialist domains in UA look to be a good starting point and easily adapted to sorcerers. They work like cleric domains and rather then being "schools" they have names like "Storm Domain" or "Cold Domain". All the best, Nani?
Stuntman 01-15-05, 01:37 PM	When I saw the War Mage class, it resembled a specialised Sorcerer. It got me thinking about using a similar mechanic for a specialised Sorcerer. Here's what I came up with as the basis for a specialised Sorcerer: A specialised sorcerer chooses a single school of magic. He knows every spell from that school. Every few levels (haven't worked it out exactly), the specialised sorcerer can choose to know a new spell from another school. This spell must be at least one level lower than the highest level spell he can cast from his specialised school. This specialised sorcerer will be very specialised in a single school of magic. He gains some limited flexibility with a few spells outside of his school. A few things that I need to consider is a specialising in divination. The divination school is considered weaker than the other schools. That is why a divination specialist wizard is only prohibited in one school. To balance this out, perhaps you could allow a divination specialist sorcerer to take a second school as a minor. When he gains spells outside of the divination school every few levels, the spell may be equal to the highest level he can cast if it is from this minor school. Another thing is the universal magic spells like permanency and wish. I'm not sure if they should be subject to the same restrictions as spells outside of the specialty school. If so, then a sorcerer who specialises can never gain the Wish spell until epic. Perhaps at level 20, the spell he chooses outside of his school of specialty can be level 9. Comments, suggestions, tweaks and criticism are welcomed.
Orguth the Brawler 01-15-05, 05:12 PM	It would seem to me that allowing the Sorcerer to specialize in a school falls under the "Magnify advantages and disadvantages at the same time" no-no for class alteration. The DMG gives as an example making a wizard still better at spellcasting at the expense of still more close combat ability. Seeing as he already is terrible enough at close combat that it's virtually not a cinsideration any longer, he effectively is broken for no penalty. The same logic would apply to the sorcerer being able to specialize. He becomes able to cast even more spells - we're talking 5 1st level spells at lvl 1 if he has a positive Charisma modifier - and better able to deal with and manipulate those given spells, at the expense of a couple schools of magic he wouldn't - and couldn't - have used anyway. Since he has so few spells anyway, chopping a couple more off his options won't matter since he gets to choose so few. It's only a worthwhile penalty for wizards because it invariably seriously cramps their versatility - which is their primary advantage over sorcerers anyhow. My suggestion for making the sorcerer more powerful - but not broken - is giving them Eschew Materials as a bonus feat at lvl 1, and allowing them to pay Exp costs for materials beyond that. At a 1/2 or 1/4 ratio, maybe. Focii would still be necessary. Additionally, throw in a few more skillpoints, since sorcerers are so much more worldly and don't spend all their time studying.