| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| Damon_Caskey07-31-06, 11:26 AM | Moved HERE (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=679421) |
| SeptimusMagistos07-31-06, 11:47 AM | Thank you! I'll post my Size Changer class, since I'm pretty sure no one else wants it. It's no a great class, but it is mine. |
| Damon_Caskey07-31-06, 02:07 PM | No takers? Come on guys. Some of you out there are more then ready spend hours in quote wars to talk about how anything homebrew is broke, broke, broke, so why not come and prove it? Cheers, DC |
| Eela607-31-06, 03:18 PM | Hm. I'd like to try Aramek's Blue Mage (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=137596) , as well as K's Assassin (from the Dungeonomicon) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=659653) To try and give some limit to what's going on, I'm mostly going to give him Sor/Wiz spells (because they're more likely to be accessible), and I'm not going to give him his latest level's spells (because he's probably just obtained the level.) I have a question - are PRCs allowed? I've been working up a new fifteen-level version of Seeker of the Song, and I'd like to see how it compares, if any one will take up the mantle. As for the Assassin, well... this'll be interesting. I like that you've outlined Tactics of the creatures - the Hydra, especially, is taking advantage of it's situation. Yes, it's an animal, but animals can be crafty - check out some of those undersea shrimp in real life. In holes, out of holes, punch, retreat... What? I watched an iMax film yesterday. |
| LordPendragon07-31-06, 03:22 PM | Alright, Damon... I'm going to try a level 10 Engetsu Shinobi and see how it fares in this contest. I'll write up the actual "character sheet" soon. Also, you do notice that replenishing all spells and stuff between fights heavily sways the favour towards classes with X/day abilities; basically all of them except the Fighter and Ranger. |
| SeptimusMagistos07-31-06, 03:33 PM | Size Changer Due to the popular demand for stories: Borg Bregski has always been really healthy. He was also relatively strong. However, he was utterly average in all things mental, no smarter than any other peasant. He thought that he would spend his life working on someone else's farm. Until, of course, he was found by a Size Changer, who recognized the potential Borg's excelent health would give him in changing his size. So, he had Borg initiated as a size changer, bathed in special dyes and subjected to the ancient rituals. Now Borg can grow or shrink at his whim, gaining a great advantage in combat. He searches the world, seeking to smash things and kill enemies. 2 more levels and it would be much more powerful. Well, let's see what I can do. Also, I now hate point buy. Str: 14 Con: 18 Dex: 12 Int: 8 Wis: 10 Cha: 8 Human Size Changer 10 Feats: Power Attack, Weapon Finesse, Cleave, Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple Skills: Intimidate(10), Jump(6), Climb(6), Swim(4), Equipment: +1 Shield, Heavy Steel of Spell Resistance (13) +2 Full Plate +1 Amulet of Natural Armor +1 Ring of Protection +2 Belt of Strength Backpack of Holding (for safe drawing of potions) (2500) Flaming Adamantine Waraxe +1 Greatclub Silversheen Dust of Dryness Potions: Magic Weapon, Bless Weapon, Blindness/Deafness, Darkness, Darkvision, Delay Poison, Invisibility, See Invisibility, Energy Resistance Cold 20, Energy Resistance Fire 20, Displacement, Water Breathing, Cure Serious Wounds, 3 potions of Fly HP: 99 Now, let's see. Challenger 01: Collosal Animated Object Shift size to Huge. Attack the enemy head on and hope that the bonuses to Strength and weapon size let me take it down in 7 rounds. If that doesn't work, fly away until fatigue wears off and attack again. Challenger 02: Coatl See Invisiblity potion. Then fly after it and try to demolish it. Probably grow. Overall, it would be hard pressed to take me out even with spells, while I could really hurt it(Or at least make it run away). Drink the potion of Fire Resistance against the Scorching Rays. Challenger 03: Cryohydra (9 heads) Do you have to ask? Potion of energy resistance(Cold), then go after its heads while enlarged. If I keep cutting destroying its heads succesfully and then use my Flaming axe on it, it should go down before me. Challenger 04: Bebilith Try to avoid the web if possible. If it grapples me, change size to Huge and demolish its +29 with my +34 to grapple checks. Overall, I estimate it a 50% chance of victory. Challenger 05: Formian Myrmarch Slow Poison. Possibly shrink. Then avoid it until exhaustion passes. Follow it up with a grapple attack in the enlarged form. If the push comes to shove, run away. Challenger 06: Fire Giant Drink the potion of fire resistance and hope it helps against molten metal. Either go Huge and try to match it blow for blow or go Tiny combined with darkness and try to defeat the giant relying on newfound Dexterity and Weapon Finesse. I'd say the chances are about even between its pure physical force and my own force augmented by my mastery of combat. Challenger 07: Clay Golem - infinite SR, haste, cursed wound, hardness Smash it right back in Huge form. Hope it dies quickly. Possibly use the potion of displacement. I should probably beat it, especially if I use Power Attack. Challenger 08: Gargantuan Monstrous Scorpion Try to outgrapple it if it gets me. Otherwise hit it as much as possible without getting hit(If possible). Fly up between changing size. Hard to say who'll win. Challenger 09: Guardian Naga Use potions of slow poison and see invisibility. Try to rely on the shield to resist spells. Fly right over it, then attack it head on. Challenger 10: Rakshasa Horrendous will save. Likely to die if the spells get through the SR.(That's me). Not too good a warrior. Likely to die if I get anywhere near it.(That's the Rakshasa) Challenger 11: Noble Salamader - DR 15/magic, Large+Reach weapon+natural reach attack, 2HandedPA, fire SLAs, improved grab Um, drink all the potions I can and then attack it? Yeah, that's the best I can come up with. Challenger 12: Three Driders (changed from 8) Try to drink potions, including that of invisibility. Hope that the spells fail vs. SR. In the end, it's the same old song-grow and attack. Their rays of enfeeblement can probably be outwaited(My character is an expert on outwaiting enfeeblement due to the penalty for changing size). Not the most original, I know. But it's worth it. The 28 point buy didn't account for the ability score increases. |
| Damon_Caskey07-31-06, 03:35 PM | Alright, Damon... I'm going to try a level 10 Engetsu Shinobi and see how it fares in this contest. I'll write up the actual "character sheet" soon. Also, you do notice that replenishing all spells and stuff between fights heavily sways the favour towards classes with X/day abilities; basically all of them except the Fighter and Ranger. Yes it does, but I was basically just trying to port a direct copy of the other competition with few changes as possible. Besides, the next round promises to be completely different, so it might just turn around and smack the use per day characters in the face. And to answer the question about PrCs, no they are not allowed, as multiclassing is not allowed. The whole point of the contest is to try out single class builds and see how they fare. Later we can see about a new contest that is more of an anything goes. I can't wait to see the Blue Mage in action, and obviously I'm curious as to how the Engetsu Shinobi will perform. If others get on board, this should prove very interesting. Cheers, Damon Caskey |
| Seerow07-31-06, 03:36 PM | How does a level 10 human have only 13 skill ranks? Unless those are all crossclass somehow? o.0 |
| Verelor07-31-06, 03:36 PM | Awesome work, Damon ;) This should be a great way to playtest my psioshaper (http://boards.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=661618) class. |
| Damon_Caskey07-31-06, 03:43 PM | Hey guys, thanks for the props, but the credit is not mine to take. Malignor wrote up the encounters and rules for the class competition, I just ported them with very minor touch ups for an identical contest involving custom classes after suggestions to try homebrews on that thread got ignored. DC |
| SeptimusMagistos07-31-06, 03:44 PM | How does a level 10 human have only 13 skill ranks? Unless those are all crossclass somehow? o.0 Human, right, right. Sorry. |
| LordPendragon07-31-06, 03:51 PM | Also, I am curious as to how the Size Changer can afford a 54000gp pair of Wings of Flying, when we've got a total budget limit of 49000gp. Edit - If anyone would like to try building a Senshi for this competition, I'd be interested to see how it turns out. The link is in my sig. |
| wolfie-kun07-31-06, 03:57 PM | Why do most of the first ones have to suck for my two classes that are easier to make characters for? I dun wanna make a summoner. :weep: Ah well. |
| Solik07-31-06, 04:08 PM | I'm thinking my Priest is going to suck for this, unless you start digging around for some esoteric spells to use here. It's designed to be a supporting class. Would be interesting to see if anyone could score with it, though. |
| Damon_Caskey07-31-06, 04:29 PM | Also, I am curious as to how the Size Changer can afford a 54000gp pair of Wings of Flying, when we've got a total budget limit of 49000gp. Edit - If anyone would like to try building a Senshi for this competition, I'd be interested to see how it turns out. The link is in my sig. I’m afraid he is right. The Size Changer is effectively disqualified for going over budget. You are welcome to try again. I might also note that you have a fairly min maxed character on your hands, and though I don’t know what round two will entail (it will be copied from the original competition) that setup might prove a bit detrimental. Also, it’s not a requirement per say, but lets try and spice up the entries with at least a tiny bit of story. DC |
| SeptimusMagistos07-31-06, 05:13 PM | I’m afraid he is right. The Size Changer is effectively disqualified for going over budget. You are welcome to try again. I might also note that you have a fairly min maxed character on your hands, and though I don’t know what round two will entail (it will be copied from the original competition) that setup might prove a bit detrimental. Also, it’s not a requirement per say, but lets try and spice up the entries with at least a tiny bit of story. DC Edited. I think now it's legal. Most of the work was stolen. I don't think that the tried and true strategy of going Huge and smashing my opponents is less effective against any opponent than it was against those. Finally, what do you mean by story? |
| malignor07-31-06, 05:14 PM | Hey guys, thanks for the props, but the credit is not mine to take. Malignor wrote up the encounters and rules for the class competition, I just ported them with very minor touch ups for an identical contest involving custom classes after suggestions to try homebrews on that thread got ignored. DCSorry for ignoring your requests for custom classes, but I can only handle one complicated thread at a time and all that. I was actually hoping you'd make a thread like this. But the fact that you used my material is a form of flattery. For that I thank you. Anyway, I will certainly take advantage and make an entry for a variant I'm assembling, the "Mystic Monk" class, as a variant to the original Monk. |
| Damon_Caskey07-31-06, 05:26 PM | Edited. I think now it's legal. Most of the work was stolen. I don't think that the tried and true strategy of going Huge and smashing my opponents is less effective against any opponent than it was against those. Finally, what do you mean by story? By story I mean creating a fully fleshed character. Rather then a “Size Changer”, how about something like Johan the Malable. He obviously isn’t the brightest bulb and has a straight ahead style, but why? Is he an amiable bumpkin or just a stupid brute? How did he know to get and use the things he has? Is he from any particular environment? What are his goals and how did he become a Size Changer? Things like that. DC |
| SeptimusMagistos07-31-06, 06:10 PM | By story I mean creating a fully fleshed character. Rather then a “Size Changer”, how about something like Johan the Malable. He obviously isn’t the brightest bulb and has a straight ahead style, but why? Is he an amiable bumpkin or just a stupid brute? How did he know to get and use the things he has? Is he from any particular environment? What are his goals and how did he become a Size Changer? Things like that. DC I thought that's what you might mean. All right, I'm on it! |
| wolfie-kun07-31-06, 06:49 PM | Before I start, are feats made to go with the class legal? |
| Damon_Caskey07-31-06, 06:51 PM | Yes. And though I should have thought of this before, it is probably a good idea to link to the class being used. DC |
| Seerow07-31-06, 06:52 PM | Hrm, in that case I might go for the new Fighter after we finish working stuff out.... |
| wolfie-kun07-31-06, 06:56 PM | Yes. And though I should have thought of this before, it is probably a good idea to link to the class being used. DC Was that in response to me? |
| Verelor07-31-06, 07:39 PM | Am I allowed to use lesser aasimar as the race and to use whatever official source I can for everything regarding feats and equipment? |
| Damon_Caskey07-31-06, 08:35 PM | I'm iffy on this. I personally would prefer SRD simply because it is difficult for those of us who don't have the referenced source (I am fully SRD dependent), and illegal to post the cited material verbatim. Also, to be honest, the spirit might get a bit lost if this becomes a CO like exercise where the winner is the one with the most obscure material. These are only my personal thoughts. Any other opinions out there? DC |
| Verelor07-31-06, 08:41 PM | I think I'll be fine just using DMGII and the lesser aasimar from Races of Destiny for this. Think that will be sufficient? Perhaps you should make a new rule that allows other content, but only from two non-core books. |
| wolfie-kun07-31-06, 09:06 PM | I'd say that we should stick to the absolute of easily available information. Core and what has been created specifically for the class only. I've determined that making a 10th level summoner is too much effort for this competition (literally almost the equivalent of making four separate characters all of that level), so at some point I'll throw a Speed Grappler (or Entangler, or whatever the hell I end up actually naming it) in. |
| Seerow07-31-06, 09:08 PM | Well in the case of the Fighter, a good number of SRD feats, and some non-core have been remade (and generally improved), I would assume that these would be banned? |
| wolfie-kun07-31-06, 09:23 PM | Well in the case of the Fighter, a good number of SRD feats, and some non-core have been remade (and generally improved), I would assume that these would be banned? I don't think so, as long as the changes made can be explained without CoC violation (I have no clue what feats you're talking about). |
| Damon_Caskey07-31-06, 09:25 PM | I posted as a rule to keep as much SRD as possible, but it's not a hard and fast. No one would fault a few PHB II feats here and there (with at least a rough explination of what they do) but if it takes a trip to the Library of Congress to understand the character, that’s another matter. Common sense should prevail. DC |
| Damon_Caskey07-31-06, 09:28 PM | Was that in response to me? Yes it was, and I am working on a cleaned up version of the rules to help answer questions like this. |
| Seerow07-31-06, 09:44 PM | I don't think so, as long as the changes made can be explained without CoC violation (I have no clue what feats you're talking about). While the Fighter here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=672031&page=13&pp=30) is still uncertain (a fairly different version was posted less than a page later, and we're still deciding what to do with it) which is why I'm not starting a write-up right this second, the feat list there is what I'm talking about. There's well over 100 feats there, a good many of them are unique, but several are things taken from the SRD and altered to be made more worthwhile. I plan on going through the splatbooks eventually and converting others to the similar style of scaling feats. (Prime targets include Shield Specialization, Agile Shield Fighter, Heavy Armor Optimization, Heavy Armor specialization, to bring them more in line with what we have there). The idea behind it is to bring the worth of a feat up, and make melee types in general more competitive with spellcasters. But feel free to give it a look, I might stick to core only feats anyway when I do finally do this though. |
| tiluvias9907-31-06, 11:27 PM | Something about this competition disturbs me... shouldn't a well made class actually lose to many of the monsters? And if a class wins a lot, isn't that a mark of poor design due to imbalance? Then again, if a class loses a lot, that means it is probably imbalanced in the other direction. Which raises a good question- about how many different types of encounters should a well balanced class be able to win and lose? All that being said, I'd like someone to play a Bando Warrior... I'd like to see how well it could work :D |
| LordPendragon07-31-06, 11:37 PM | Well, here's my first attempt at a build for this contest, using Damon_Caskey's Engetsu Shinobi. Name - Archie "Barrelbandit" Merryman. Age - 27 Height - 178 (5'7") Weight - 70 (154) Hair - Dark brown Eyes - Grey Skin - Tan Notable Features - None Description - Archie is an intelligent combatant, relying mostly on quick thinking and quick feet to see him through a battle; he's no pushover however, and can take his fair share of hits. History - Archie started his career in the army, and learned there how to fire a bow and use heavier armour effectively. During a certain mission, Archie learned of the Engetsu clan, and investigated, as was his wont. Upon discovering their secretive secret lair, he had no choice but to join the Engetsu or die where he stood. Since then, the Engetsu training has helped Archie progress far beyond his previous abilities. Even so, he still tends to engage the enemy as a soldier; firepower against firepower, with no hiding or deception involved.Human Engetsu Shinobi Str 10 Dex 14 (18) Con 14 Int 16 Wis 12 Cha 8 HP = 57 BAB = 10 Fort = 3 + 1 + 2 = 6 Ref = 7 + 4 + 2 = 13 Will = 7 + 2 + 1 + 2 = 12 AC = 10 + 4+2 + 4 + 4 + 5 + 2 = 31 Touch = 10 + 4 + 4 + 5 + 2 = 25 Flat = 10 + 4+2 + 4 + 2 = 22 ASF = 10% - 10% = 0% Speed = 30 + 30 + 15 = 75 Longbow attack = 10 + 4 + 1 = 15/10 or 13/13/8 Longbow damage = 1D8 + 1D6 fire + 1D6 electricity + 1 (Avg 12) Longbow LS damage = 1D8 + 1D6 + 1D6 + 3D6 + 1 (Avg 23) Weapon Pool - 4 Medium Armour 1 Longbow 1 Net 2 Feats - 1 Human, 4 levels Point Blank Shot Rapid Shot Armoured Caster (Reduces ASF by 5%) Armoured Caster (Stacks with itself) Iron Will Endurance (Given) Run (Given) Skills - 130 ranks Concentration 13 + 1 = 14 Spot 13 + 2 = 15 Listen 13 + 2 = 15 Hide 13 + 4 = 17 Move Silently 13 + 4 = 17 Search 13 + 3 = 16 Tumble 13 + 4 + 2 = 19 Sense Motive 13 + 2 = 15 Escape Artist 13 + 4 + 2 = 19 Balance 13 + 4 + 2 = 19 Spells - 4/4/3/2 0 - Resistance, Light x3 1 - Alarm, Feather Fall, Grease, Comprehend Languages 2 - Darkvision, Resist Energy, Knock 3 - Fly x2 Features Lunar Savant - All skills are treated as having 1 rank. Lunar Traces - Cannot be tracked outdoors. Lunar Serenity - Immune to mind-affecters. Lunar Strike +3D6 - Like Sneak Attack. Lunar Stride - +15ft base speed. Evasion 18410 +1 Flaming Shocking Composite Longbow 3lb 5100 +2 Mithral Shirt 12lb 4000 Cloak of Resistance +2 1lb 4000 Gloves of Dexterity +2 4000 Ring of Shield of Faith (CL 1) 4000 Boots of Expeditious Retreat (CL 1) 1lb 4000 Medallion of Shield (CL 1) 700 Scroll of Greater Invisibility (7 rounds) 700 Scroll of Dimension Door 600 4 Scrolls of See Invisibility 400 8 Potions of Cure Light Wounds 2000 Handy Haversack 5lb 20 400 Arrows 60lb 60 3 Nets 18lb 47990 In the Haversack... All scrolls, potions, nets, and arrows = 78lb. 19lbs always carried, 28lbs with 2 weapons out. Below light load. Note that the rules for custom wondrous items in the DMG were used. You did say any core SRD was legal.Pregame - None. Tactics - This one's pretty simple. I just use my superior speed or flight to stay out of its reach while pinging away with my bow. Average damage is approximately 4, so I finish it off in about 70 rounds. Postgame - Used up to 4gp of arrows, 100%.Pregame - Couatl tries Charm Monster. I succeed the save (80%). Tactics - Start off with Fly, and take to the air. Start sniping the summons as they spawn; they can only hit me on a 20 anyways. Shoot animals for 7 rounds, killing roughly 1 per round. Next volley, Scorching Rays. Rays need a 12 to hit, so 45% chance to hit. 1 Ray at 45% of avg 14 = 6 dmg. After the first Scorching Ray, I use Resist Energy (Fire), reducing damage from subsequent rays to 1 average. After the Couatl discharges all his rays, I've most likely finished off all the summons, and taken roughly 15 damage (assuming 2 summons hit me). Now it's just me and him. Simple enough, when he's corporeal, I shoot with my bow. He goes ethereal, and I use See Invisibility. I assume he'll try to start his grapple with a bite into improved grab; this misses, as he needs to roll a 20 to hit. I shoot him a couple times with my bow, having a 45% chance to hit his Mage Armor-ed AC using Rapid Shot. .45 x 2 x 12 = 11 damage per round. If he gets smart and starts doing regular touch attacks to start the grapple, I can still slip free 60% of the time using Esacpe Artist; alternatively, one casting of Grease makes me ungrappleable. Postgame - Used 302gp in arrows and scrolls, 75%.Pregame - Get locked in by the stone slab doors. Tactics - Start fight with a full attack after winning initiative (70%). If I lost initiative, I take 9 head attacks to the face, flatfooted, dealing 10 each (.60 x 10 x 9 = 54); after an attack like that, I have no option but to retreat using Dimension Door. If I won initiative, I get attacked by 9 heads (ugh) for 10 each (.15 x 10 x 9 = 14), although my better AC saves me from most of this. In either case, I can't overcome the hydra's fast healing, or sunder its heads. I retreat using Dimension Door. Postgame - Used 700gp, and never really won, 25% for living.Pregame - Bebilith has 50% chance to hear me, I have 40% chance to hear it. Assumed surprise. Suffer a flat-footed attack with its web. Tactics - Lose initiative, Bebilith takes a full attack on my still-surprised face for 18 (90%) and 9 twice (65%). That's a 42% chance to rend my armour for 32, which won't destroy it anyways, since it has 16 hardness and over 30 HP. In any case, I take average 28 damage. I most likely fail the Fort save for 3 Con (15%), losing another 10 HP to Con loss. Average remaining HP is 19. Make 2 Concentration checks at DC 15, and use a Scroll of Dimension Door defensively. I run the hell away and drink a few Potions of Cure Light so I don't die in 9 rounds when I take another 7 Con loss from poison, and subsequently lose 40 HP. Postgame - Used 900gp, 10% for living again.Pregame - Myrmarch notices me and uses his buffs. I am stupid and don't notice. It takes a flat-footed attack against me with its javelins for 7 Dex damage (80%). Tactics - I can try fighting back, but it's futile. The Myrmarch will teleport away if it gets weakened, and I have no way of stopping that. Nor do I have an effective way to stop it from coming back once it regains full health. Even if I try to Dimension Door away, the Myrmarch can just teleport around until it finds me. It would likely be a long and arduous fight, but I really have no chance here. Postgame - Lie down and die, 0%Pregame - Get herded by FREAKIN' GIANTS. wheee. Tactics - I most likely win initiative (80%), but on the off chance that I lose it, the giant has a 35% chance to hit with his charge, doing 35 avg; .2 x .35 x 35 = 3 dmg. After that, I start flying. If I lost initiative, I take an AoO for flying out of his threatened area, dealing 35 at 35% again; .35 x 35 x .2 = 3 dmg. Once in the air, I go shot-for-shot with the giant, dealing 9 damage per shot (50%); so 9 damage per round. The giant deals 24 damage per shot (5%); 1.2 damage per round. If it's stupid enough to get in a fire-fight, I win. After the giant submerges itself, I fly 200ft away and camp. The other giants will disperse to give us fighting room (as per terrain entry), so I take these rounds to gain an aiming bonus. Obviously, I choose the direction with the least lava. When the giant comes back up, I take a prepared action to shoot him in the face, and continue to fight. The giant can stay submerged for roughly 5 minutes, so I assume I lose my flight for the rest of the battle. If he resubmerges, I do the same pattern; if he tries to kill me with rocks, I win; if he tries to chase me, I stay out of his reach with my superior speed or jsut recast Fly. Postgame - Potentially used 10gp in arrows, 90%.Pregame - Take a single shot at the golem. It doesn't react, I have dealt it 7 damage and assume it's harmless. I get surprised by it when I try to move it. Tactics - After taking a surprise attack for 18 (65% = 12), I win initiative (80%) and attack with a net after taking a 5ft step back. It has a 40% chance to get out of the net every round, so I expect it to be held for 2 rounds by each net. If it gets any more attacks on me, it only has 15% chance to hit; effectively 3 damage per attack. Then I use complete full attacks for 7 rounds, dealing 7 per shot (70% + 70% + 45% = 185% = 13 damage per round). I kill it within 10 rounds. Postgame - Used 61gp, 100%Pregame - I notice the scorpion at 130ft, and take a surprise attack against it. Surprise attack is for 23 damage (50% = 11). Tactics - I most likely win initiative (75%) and take a full attack, for 23 damage each again (.40 + .40 + .15 = .95 x .75 = .7 = 16). If I lose initiative, I'm still just barely out of charge reach. After that, it's a simple matter of casting Fly and taking potshots. Postgame - Used up to 3gp in arrows, 100%Pregame - I notice the Naga at 170ft, she is still unaware of me if I was hiding. In fact, I can stay hidden and sneak all the way up into the tower to ambush the naga. I move up to the door and reveal myself to the Naga, since they aren't inherently evil or violent. Tactics - The naga is likely to mention his "test" and immediately begin his round-by-round tactics. I win initiative (60%) and get a full round of Lunar Strikes on it; .9 + .9 + .65 = 2.45 x 23 = 57. Failing that, I will leave the tower as soon as the Naga uses invisibility, and cast See Invisibility on myself. This fight is basically going to be a chain of him casting Greater Invisibility, me trying to get around it by using See Invis or Fly, and him dispelling my spells. Overall, it should progress fairly evenly unless he dispels my Resist Energy (Fire), and rocks me with Scorching Rays. On the other hand, with my superior stealth I could just walk right past this encounter and up to the higher levels of the tower. In the spirit of the competition, however, I decided not to do that. Postgame - Used likely 1900gp, 10%Pregame - I come down the stairs, and fall into the rakshasa's little trap. I make the Will save vs Charm person with little difficulty (95%), and have a 40% chance to see through his lies, even though the disguise will be too good for me. I assume we converse for a few rounds, and I eventually catch on that the thing is lying; combat ensues, with him getting a surprise round. Tactics - He casts Suggestion in the surprise round and I save (85%). Afterwards, it can go either way wth initiative; in either case, he is likely to Acid Arrow me, and I would respond with Resist Energy (Acid), making me immune. His next option is Magic Missile, to which I am immune. After a couple rounds of failing to damage me, he'll likely switch to Invisibility, which I counter with See Invisibility. He can try to run away, but I will follow and gun him down. The energy damage on my bow penetrates DR, so I deal a consistant 7 per attack, average 12 per round. This really is an easy fight for this build. Postgame - used 301gp, 75%.Pregame - Cast Fly on myself before moving anywhere, and then use the smoke as concealment to make a Hide check (27) and exit the tunnel. Salamander has a 35% chance to see me. Tactics - Assuming I make it out without being seen (likely), I reach an altitude of 200ft and start shooting downwards onto it. The first attacks are fully aimed, against the salamander's flat-footed AC of 17 (.85 + .85 + .6 = 2.3 x 19 = 44). He Dispels my Fly on his turn, and I recast it and move down to 100ft. After this initial series, he is left with no more Dispels, and I have a handy-dandy Scroll of Greater Invisibility which will be great for this situation. I proceed to use it and continue to wreak havoc on his flat-footed corpse until he dies. Postgame - Used 701gp, 75%Pregame - No darkvision out to 80ft, so I am surprised by the driders. Their first round I take 3 Lightning Bolts, failing my save on a 1 or 2 (10% = 2 x 3 = 6 avg). Tactics - I use a round to cast Resist Energy on myself, choosing electricity, of course. Their 3 lightning bolts now average 4 damage per round. Second round, I cast Fly, and dodge another 3 bolts; average damage total is 14. I fly up and start bowing them in the faces; Mage Armour-ed AC is 21 (65%), so I deal average 21 x 1.7 = 36 per round. That'll drop 1 in 2 rounds if I can see it, or 4 rounds if I can't see it but I'm aiming at the right square. Either way, my flight gets dispelled, and I fall, taking probably 10 damage. I start taking blind shots, and if I hit, then I hit; if I don't then they still run out of spells before killing me (4 LB's each = 6 + 4 x 3 = 18, MM is ineffective due to Shield). This forces the driders to melee, or to flee, and in either case I win (their attacks need a 20 to hit my AC). Postgame - Used up to 3gp in arrows, 90%. |
| Damon_Caskey07-31-06, 11:39 PM | And so it goes with rule 6. A well built well played class that can handle itself is one thing... a total domination is another and will be indicative of a severly overpowered class. It’s going to take careful judgment. But in the meantime, lets see some actuall, I dunno.. entries? Everyone has talked about making an entry but only one has stepped up so far. DC |
| LordPendragon07-31-06, 11:44 PM | And so it goes with rule 6. A well built well played class that can handle itself is one thing... a total domination is another and will be indicative of a severly overpowered class. It’s going to take careful judgment. But in the meantime, lets see some actuall, I dunno.. entries? Everyone has talked about making an entry but only one has stepped up so far. DCYou mean two :D |
| Damon_Caskey08-01-06, 12:05 AM | Well, here's my first attempt at a build for this contest... Human Engetsu Shinobi Str 10 Dex 14 (18) Con 12 Int 16 Wis 14 Cha 8 BAB = 10 Fort = 3 + 1 + 2 = 6 Ref = 7 + 4 + 2 = 13 Will = 7 + 2 + 2 + 2 = 13 AC = 10 + 4+3 + 4 + 4 + 5 + 2 = 32 Touch = 10 + 4 + 4 + 5 + 2 = 25 Flat = 10 + 4+3 + 4 + 2 = 23 ASF = 10% - 10% = 0% Weapon Pool - 4 Medium Armour 1 Longbow 1 Net 2 Feats - 1 Human, 4 levels Point Blank Shot Rapid Shot Armoured Caster (Reduces ASF by 5%) Armoured Caster (Stacks with itself) Iron Will Skills - 130 ranks Concentration 13 + 1 = 14 Spot 13 + 2 = 15 Listen 13 + 2 = 15 Hide 13 + 4 = 17 Move Silently 13 + 4 = 17 Search 13 + 3 = 16 Tumble 13 + 4 +2 = 19 Sense Motive 13 + 2 = 15 Escape Artist 13 + 4 +2 = 19 Balance 13 + 4 +2= 19 Spells - 4/4/3/2 0 - Resistance, Light x3 1 - Golem Strike, Grave Strike, Grease, Comprehend Languages 2 - Darkvision, Resist Energy, Knock 3 - Fly x2 18410 +1 Flaming Shocking Composite Longbow 3lb 10100 +3 Mithral Shirt 12lb 4000 Cloak of Resistance +2 1lb 4000 Gloves of Dexterity +2 3000 Ring of Shield of Faith (CL 1) 2000 Boots of Expeditious Retreat (CL 1) 1lb 2000 Medallion of Shield (CL 1) 700 Scroll of Greater Invisibility (7 rounds) 700 Scroll of Dimension Door 1500 Scroll of Greater Magic Weapon (CL 20) 300 Scroll of See Invisibility 2000 Handy Haversack 5lb 20 400 Arrows 60lb 60 3 Nets 18lb 48790 In the Haversack... All scrolls, nets, and arrows = 78lb. 19lbs always carried, 28lbs with 2 weapons out. Below light load. Note that the rules for custom wondrous items in the DMG were used. You did say any core SRD was legal. I'll actually run through the encounters another time, and edit them into this post. Don't forget the skill bonuses from Lunar Prevarication (using standard D&D rounding rules, that's +2 at level 10). I put them in bold for you. Also try to link to the stuff you use and flesh it out just a bit. Looking forward to seeing him in action. |
| LordPendragon08-01-06, 12:11 AM | Don't forget the skill bonuses from Lunar Prevarication (using standard D&D rounding rules, that's +2 at level 10). I put them in bold for you. Also try to link to the stuff you use and flesh it out just a bit. Looking forward to seeing him in action.Ah, good catch on those. That was pretty silly... forgetting an ability right after reading the class. I added in short synopses of Golem Strike and Grave Strike, too. So how does this work..... want me to just run the character against all 12 encounters, or would you like to choose some for me to fight. I think this whole thing would be a lot better if done in sets of 2 or 3 consecutive encounters. |
| Damon_Caskey08-01-06, 12:19 AM | It's up to you how many at a time to tackle, but you have to eventually take on 6 and preferably all. For those who don't know the class, it might help to add things like damage and hit points. :P DC |
| LordPendragon08-01-06, 12:24 AM | It's up to you how many at a time to tackle, but you have to eventually take on 6 and preferably all. For those who don't know the class, it might help to add things like damage and hit points. :P DCDurrr... I whipped it up as quick as I could, so I missed a few things apparently :rolleyes: |
| tiluvias9908-01-06, 12:36 AM | But in the meantime, lets see some actuall, I dunno.. entries? Everyone has talked about making an entry but only one has stepped up so far.People don't want to play their own class for the same reasons they don't want to review their own class. It's just so much better when someone else does, when you get peer reviews. |
| LordPendragon08-01-06, 12:40 AM | People don't want to play their own class for the same reasons they don't want to review their own class. It's just so much better when someone else does, when you get peer reviews.Everyone who wants their class run through the gauntlet should first take someone else's class through it, and then post their own request for a test run on their class. That way we can all get a peer review :D |
| Damon_Caskey08-01-06, 12:45 AM | I would love to grab the Bando Warrior or something similar and take it through, but unfortunatly, as much as I like building classes and story characters, I suck at whipping up crunch builds. :raincloud: |
| tiluvias9908-01-06, 01:12 AM | I'd be willing to play someone else's class... could we get a list of the class submissions? ...Do we even have class submissions? Or are we supposed to just grab a homebrew class randomly? |
| Szatany08-01-06, 01:13 AM | I'd be willing to play someone else's class... could we get a list of the class submissions? ...Do we even have class submissions? Or are we supposed to just grab a homebrew class randomly? I encourage you to grab any of my classes :D . I'm especially curious how well would nexus fare. If you're interested, links are in my sig. |
| tiluvias9908-01-06, 01:53 AM | Hm, the ultimate classes... that could be excellent. I think the best class to chose could be the adventurer... but would such a class be allowed, considering it's more of a multi-classig aid class than a class itself (multiclassing being disallowed in this case)? |
| Seerow08-01-06, 02:00 AM | Okay, after reading some of that, I've decided playing the Fighter would be in bad form (even if it -was- mostly Lokathor =P). I'll instead go for the Aeromancer (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=659439) with the single change that Improved Bullrush can apply to Windblast. (because that was one thing I really disagreed with after he changed it, it originally didn't specify, and I felt it should be able to apply since it's pretty much the Aeromancer's main attack form for quite a while). Why? Because from when I first saw the class I decided I wanted to try it at least once. It may be a while before I get to try it in an actual game, so this is close. As you progress down the road, you see a lone halfling in the distance, walking towards you, wearing simple traveling clothes with a pack on his back, and a crossbow at the ready. As you get closer, you notice more odd details - his hair is blowing as though in a wind, despite there being no breeze, and you can see a strange light dancing in his blue eyes. As you pass him, you feel a sudden movement in the air, a strong breeze that cools your face. The strange halfling turns to you and for a brief second you lock eyes, you know he's more than he appears. As soon as he passes you, the breeze dies back down, and you are left with bewildered thoughts. An hour further down the road, you come across a forest... but many of the trees have been uprooted and strewn about, as if an unseasonal storm had passed through. At the center lies a dead Coatl. You stare on in wonderment-could this have been the work of that traveling halfling you met earlier? Name - Soren the Soaring Age - 24 Height - 2'10 Weight - 30 Hair - blone Eyes - blue Skin - A light tan Notable Features- His eyes seem to dance with an inner light, if one would stop to study this you might notice that rather than a light, it's the chaos of a storm glowing from within. Description - Soren is a quickwitted halfling, often forsaking the tedious planning that others use in favor of spontaneously finding solutions to a problem. Halfling Aeromancer Str: 8 -2 (Racial) = 6 Dex: 14 +2 (Racial) +2 (item) = 18 Con: 12 Int: 14 Wis: 10 Cha: 16 +2 (levels) = 18 HP: 47 BAB: +7 Fort = 3 + 1 + 1 +2 = +7 Ref = 7 + 4 + 1 +2 = +14 Will = 7 + 0 + 1 +2 = +10 AC = 28 = 10 + 6(armor) + 4 (dex) + 4 (shield) + 2 (deflection) +1 (natural) + 1 (size) Touch = 17 Flat = 23 Speed = 20 ft Speed (Air) = 30 ft (Average) Feats: 1-Improved Bullrush 3-Skill Focus (UMD) 6-Counter Air 9-Hover 10*-Flyby Attack *=Bonus Feat Skills: 52 Ranks Knowledge(The Planes) 13+2=15 Listen 13+0=13 Spot 13+0=13 Use Magic Device 13+5+3=21 Features: Air Mastery Endure Wind Wind Blast (Huge) [200 lbs objects, Bullrush Mod +17] Dust [Reflex DC19] Slow Fall (unlimited distance) Air Empathy Aura of Wind (10) Divide Wind Trade Winds (20 ft) [Fort DC19] Downdraft [Fort DC19] Updraft [Fort DC20, 50 ft] Flight 30 ft (average) Summon Air Elemental (Medium) Windstorm (Windforce) Conjure Air Items: +2 Glammered Chain Shirt (6700) +2 Light Crossbow (8000) 200 Bolts (20) 50 Adamantine Bolts (305) Wand of Magic Missile CL9 (6750) Wand of Eagle's Splendor (4500) +2 Gloves of Dexterity (4000) +2 Cloak of Resistance (4000) Ring of Shield (4000) Ring of Shield of Faith (4000) +1 Ammulet of Natural Armor (2000) Handy Haversack (2000) 2 Potion of Invisibility (1800) 2 Potion of Wings of Air (600) [wings of air is a 2nd level spell found in SC, increases maneuverability one step] Wand of Grease (750) Wand of Cure Light Wounds (750) Total Spent: 48,975 We start 400 feet apart, while closing I use the Wand of Eagle's Splendor to boost my Charisma up to 22, making my DCs 21. When we're closer close in to 60 feet away and Trade Winds on him, 50% chance to reduce his speed to 10ft. From there it's a matter of either finding appropriately sized objects to Blast of Wind at him for 8d6 damage, or Updrafting him for 6d6 falling damage (oddly it has no cap on size... that's something to bring up with Archana, for now though, I like it =D), while staying out of his range and renewing the trade winds as necessary. This is pretty easy. If he passes a Fort save (45%) to avoid Trade Winds I'm still out of his reach since I'm flying over his head, so I guess it's not really necessary. It'll take a while, thanks to his hardness taking out a good portion of throwing stuff at him (average of 8d6 is 28, 6d6 is 20. He takes 10 damage off the top, so either 18 or 20 damage a pop, depending on what's lying around. Assuming Hardness doesn't apply to falling damage). Alternatively pulling out the Wand of Grease and watching him slip around with his -3 dex penalty and no skills while I plink away at him with Adamantine Bolts could win this too. But I liked actually using the Aeromancer abilities. Success: 100% Start by gulping a potion of invisibility, Coatl reacts as per description by going invisible himself. Next round I use Wand of Eagle's Splendor to bring my Charisma up to 22, Coatl starts summoning beasties, I play the waiting game. They only last 9 rounds each. First round of first set my invisibility is still up, if they can't tell where I am, I fly to an opposite corner, and continue playing keep away until invisibility wears off on its own. Either way, when they can see me, I want to be far away, I can generally maneuver better, if there's only one or two of them (this is uncertain when you have something like 1d3 or 1d4+1 monsters) I can Bullrush them to keep them back. The description says the Coatl stays out of it, and this is testing me, so I should be okay. (If Coatl joins in during this stage, I find it much harder to keep the maneuvering up, as he beats me in fly speed and maneuverability). If needed I pull out the wand for another charisma buff. (basically depending on if he gets bored of watching me fly around after two summons, or goes for 3 or more). If at any point a group of summons comes close enough to harm me, I activate Windstorm, which hopefully brings up the wind speed enough to either check them temporarily, or knock them away. So at this point, the Coatl comes out. He's 20 ft in the air, I use Downdraft to knock him out of the sky (60%), he takes 2d6 falling damage, and can't fly for the next round. Next round he shoots some scorching rays, I probably get hit by at least one for 4d6 damage. I fly by and use Trade Winds, then move on by (65%). He flies again, but is now about as slow as me and I have a head start, he has to use another scorching ray. I use downdraft again, he's checked for the next round (as he's now on the ground and has -20 to move speed, with a base of 20 ft movement). I look for one of the big rocks mentioned in the terrain description, I Gust of Wind them at him for 8d6 damage. He gains flying ability back, I Gust of Wind another one at him for another 8d6 damage. So far I've done 20d6 damage, average 70, he has 58 HP, he should be dead or fleeing. (Actually, if he was going to flee he may have done so after I launched the first rock. 12d6 averages to 42 damage of his 58...) Overall though, I'm uncertain on this one. His Scorching Rays hurt, but I don't think they kill me. But if I fail at Trade Winds or Downdraft, and he manages to hit me with that poison, it hurts. Also, if I'm not as effective at outmaneuvering the summoned monsters as I believe I could be, they hurt. Still, I think I've got a 55% shot at it. Disagree as you will I'm tired, I'll finish, give name backstory etc tomorrow. Also want to know if Pendragon's custom items are really within the rules, or if you'll limit to items normally buyable. (+2 deflection bonus for 2000 GP for example is absurd. As is 2000 GP for +30 speed. It's 5500 for +10 Speed and +5 jump (that +30 speed actually gives a bigger bonus to jump anyway)) Edit: Okay, finished the stats and items I think. Fluff and gauntlet later. Edit2: Fluff up. Gauntlet started. |
| Damon_Caskey08-01-06, 07:23 AM | Nothing in the rules says you can't have custom items. On the other hand, I don't see that as being in the greatest form. It would be possible to spend all one's money on one megachesse custom item that would win the competition alone. As an example, that double whammy bow Lord P. has my Engetsu weilding is a fairly mean peice of hardware that will in itself be a tide turner I think, but then again, I DID say SRD. I'll going to leave this in the judgement of the poster, but please try within all means to leave the "custom" to the classess themselves. It's hard enough to keep a handle on things as is. DC |
| Damon_Caskey08-01-06, 07:31 AM | I'd be willing to play someone else's class... could we get a list of the class submissions? ...Do we even have class submissions? Or are we supposed to just grab a homebrew class randomly? You grab homebrews randomly (and make sure to link your source). Preferably someone elses, but you can do one of your own if you really want. DC |
| Damon_Caskey08-01-06, 09:45 AM | Nothing in the rules says you can't have custom items. On the other hand, I don't see that as being in the greatest form. It would be possible to spend all one's money on one megachesse custom item that would win the competition alone. As an example, that double whammy bow Lord P. has my Engetsu weilding is a fairly mean peice of hardware that will in itself be a tide turner I think, but then again, I DID say SRD. I'll going to leave this in the judgement of the poster, but please try within all means to leave the "custom" to the classess themselves. It's hard enough to keep a handle on things as is. DC I’m going to have to eat crow and take all of this back. I just noticed the core class version of this competition has been using custom SRD items all along. Go wild I suppose, so long as you are within bounds for wealth. DC |
| LordPendragon08-01-06, 09:47 AM | I'm tired, I'll finish, give name backstory etc tomorrow. Also want to know if Pendragon's custom items are really within the rules, or if you'll limit to items normally buyable. (+2 deflection bonus for 2000 GP for example is absurd. As is 2000 GP for +30 speed. It's 5500 for +10 Speed and +5 jump (that +30 speed actually gives a bigger bonus to jump anyway))Actually, if your ead the section on creating items in the DMG, the 2 items are created by the exact same process. Boots of Striding and Springing are made with a continuous Longstrider effect (caster level x spell level x 2000) and a skill boost (bonus^2 x 100). Longstrider = 1 x 1 x 2000 = 2000 Skill boost = 5 x 5 x 100 = 2500 Combine those, multiplying the lower one x1.5, as per standard effect combining on items, and you get a price of 5500. As you can see, it's not that the items I used are structurally any different from the DMG ones; I just used more efficient spells. Besides... if I really wanted to break the game I would have had a 2000gp set of Gauntlets of Golem Strike. Permanent ability to SA constructs?? I'll be taking that, thank you. In any case, I agree that there should be a limit on the amount of gp spent on any one item. I'd say 20000gp is a fair limit, since it still allows Fighters to afford their +3 weapon of choice. Also, if anyone's looking for a class to take through the gauntlet, I'd like to see how the Senshi fares... or any of the others in my sig, really :D |
| SeptimusMagistos08-01-06, 10:50 AM | I'd like to try an unlikely hero (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=668565) . Any suggestions as to items? |
| LordPendragon08-01-06, 11:50 AM | I'd like to try an unlikely hero (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=668565) . Any suggestions as to items?That class has serious MAD issues. You'll want at least 15 Int/Wis, to cast level 5 spells as either a Cleric or Wizard; and you'll want high Con so you don't get killed while trying to go into desperation. Not to mention that you won't have enough spells to handle all your offense, so you'll need a good weapon and a good attacking stat (probably Dex). Other than stat boosters to make sure all your stats are high enough, just get the standard items for an archer, I'd say (preferably no heavy armour, because of ASF). |
| Eela608-01-06, 12:42 PM | Here's the first bit of K's Assassin. I'll finish her later today, but time pressures call. Assassin - Alasse Thuranni The Flavor - well, you'll have to wait a bit. The Crunch F Elf TN Assassin Str: 10 (base) Dex: 16+ 2 (racial) + 2 (leveling) + 2 (item) = 22 Dex Con: 14 - 2 (racial) = 12 +2 (item) Int: 16 (base) +2 (item) Wis: 8 (base) Cha: 8 (base) _ HP: (38+20) = 58 AC: 10+5(dex)+8(breastplate)+4(shield)+1(rin g of deflection)=29 AC BAB: +7/+2 Fort: 7+2(con)+2 (Item) Reflex: 7+6 (dex) +2 (Item) Will: 3-1(wis)+2 (Item) Items: +3 Mithral Breastplate = 13250 +3 Mithral Buckler = 10015 Masterwork Light Crossbow = 335 5 +1 Construct Bane Bolts = (800) 2 +1 Ooze Bane Bolts = (800) 50 Alchemical Silver Bolts = (150) 150 Bolts = 150 Amulet of Health +2 = 4000 Gloves of Dexterity +2 = 4000 Headband of Intellect +2 = 4000 +2 Shirt of Resistance = 4000 Handy Haversack = 2000 Ring of Deflection +1 = 2000 Masterwork Cold Iron Spiked Chain = 350 Scrolls/Consumables: Scrolls (1st Level [25 GP E/A] Hide from Undead (x1) Hide from Animals (x1) Obscuring Mist (x2) True Strike (x1) Shield of Faith (x2) _ Divine Favor [Caster Level 3rd] (x1) (75 GP) Lesser Restoration (150 GP) Shatter (150 GP) Fly (300 GP) = Drow Poison (5 doses): 375 = 2090 GP Spells Per Day/Known= 0: 3/6 1: 3+1/4 2: 3+1/4 3: 2+1/4 4: 0+1/2 Skills: 117 Ranks 13 Ranks in All Skills, except 8 Ranks in Listen and Five Ranks in Spellcraft K - Dungeoneering (+17) K - The Planes (+17) Concentration: (+15) Use Magic Device: (+12 [14 for Scrolls]) Listen: (+9) Spellcraft: (+9 [11 for Scrolls]) Spot: (+14) Tumble: (+19) Hide: (+19) Move Silently: (+19) Spells: 4th Level - Greater Invisibility, Shadow Conjuration 3rd Level - Vampiric Touch, Major Image, Displacement, Tongues 2nd Level - Command Undead, Invisibility, Mirror Image, See Invisibility 1st Level - Disguise Self, Ray of Enfeeblement, True Strike, Silent Image 0th Level - Ghost Sound, Disrupt Undead, Detect Poison, Detect Magic, Read Magic. Feats: Point Blank Shot Rapid Shot Weapon Finesse Rapid Reload - Light Repeating Crossbow Attack Bonus - Crossbow (within 30 feet, Rapid Shot) - +13/+13/+8 Attack Bonus - Spiked Chain (+14/+9) *Note - had to edit due to going over budget. Changes are - changed Ring of Deflection +2 to +1. (I had forgot to account for the price of the amulet of health.) [/sblock] |
| heretic88808-01-06, 12:52 PM | Since I am often the least experienced player in our groups, I'm actually really terrible at these sorts of things. . . However, if one of you more experienced guys wouldn't mind putting my shinobi-no-bushi (http://www.wizards.com/leaving.asp?url=http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=188379&origin=) through the gauntlet, I would greatly appreciate it. Laterz. |
| LordPendragon08-01-06, 12:54 PM | Just as a reminder... the OP did suggest that people shouldn't use their own class, to prevent bias. |
| SeptimusMagistos08-01-06, 01:44 PM | That class has serious MAD issues. You'll want at least 15 Int/Wis, to cast level 5 spells as either a Cleric or Wizard; and you'll want high Con so you don't get killed while trying to go into desperation. Not to mention that you won't have enough spells to handle all your offense, so you'll need a good weapon and a good attacking stat (probably Dex). Other than stat boosters to make sure all your stats are high enough, just get the standard items for an archer, I'd say (preferably no heavy armour, because of ASF). You know what? Never mind. I just realized that with point buy this class would get blown right out of the park. I'll look for something else to do. |
| Damon_Caskey08-01-06, 01:52 PM | Eela6, I can't find the Assasin, please link to it. This goes for any future entries. Please link your source material. |
| Eela608-01-06, 01:57 PM | Alright: Battle 1: Animated Object. Alasse wasn't really expecting an attack while visiting a friend, but she's an Assassin, for chrissakes. Killing things is her JOB. She's quick on her feet and, having sixteen more dexterity than the collossal knight, goes first. She whips out her light crossbow, loaded with two Construct-killin' bolts and three standard ones, and whispers the magic words to make her invisibile - greater invisible, to be precise. The Construct can't do anything about this. It doesn't have it's Dex to AC - it can't see her. From there, she takes her time to recollect what she knows about the magical weakpoints of constructs. It charges heedlessly, but it can't .5reach her for now, so no problem - besides, it's busy killin' townsfolk - it can't detect her by any means (it has no ranks in listen, 1 wisdom. It has 11 AC - she has a +17/+17/+10 attack bonus (due to being invisible + bane). She misses only on a natural one, and her first two hits do 1d8+14d6+2, and her second one does 1d8+13d6 - (56.5-10) + (56.5-10) + (50-10) = 133 damage. She can do this again next round, but no construct-bane bolts left. No real problem - because it cannot hit her, see her, or do anything. Even if her rolls are low and she runs out of greater invisibility, she can do regular invisibility, run out of charge range, study the enemy for a round, pop 'em, and invis again. May I dare say it? (95% win.) Battle 2: - Coautl Alasse isn't evil, she's neutral. So she's going to study for a way to get this Coautl out of the way without kiling it - and her advantage is that just *studying* something isnt' likely to provoke an attack. Since she has permnament Nondetection on, the Coautl can't sense her thoughts through Detect Thoughts - and she's not going to have a weapon out, so it has to rely on it's best judgement. Assuming the Coatl lets her get away with it, she can open up with *one* bolt of Drow Poison goodness to peg it with a +17 attack (against 21 AC) that does 12d6+1d8+2 (49.5 on average). The Coautl then has to make a save against DC 13 - it has a +8 fort save, so it's going to pass out about a quarter of the time. From there, she's going to take a free action to offer it to surrender if it's still awake. (Likely). If it denies, well, if it turns invisible, she'll counter with see invisibilty. If it summons, it's dead - it takes a full round and it has about five hit points. Of course, a Coatl has a +16 sense motive. It might see through it - in fact likely it will. In this case, they're going to be starting on equal footing. When it turns invisibile, Alasse has a counter. But she won't use it just yet - she has a high Knowledge - Planes, and knows that Coautls can't see invisibility. She also has a high move silently. So she's going to cast Greater Invisibility. Ahe's going to get herself within 30 feet and use See Invisible. When it uses obscuring mist, she's got three attacks - though they aren't Death Attack, it's good enough. Even total concealment probably won't negate one hitting, and the concealment works to her aid, too. The Coatl can't use it's detection on her, and it's best bet is a grapple. If it attempts to summon, she's got a round to peg it in the face - or even better, just sit there and look at it, then peg it with three Death Attacks, all of which poisoned with Drow Poison in an attempt just to knock out the defender. Sure, it'll probably make the save, but it's got a 10% or so chance on each to pass out on the spot and make it easier for Alasse. It can fly, but Alasse has ranged. If it gets too far away, she'll use Fly to follow. The Coatl's best bet is a grapple, or pure damage. However, it doesn't *know* that - it's used to being able to detect the enemy's strengths and weaknesses. Scorching ray is a good trick, but Alasse has a high enough touch AC that she can probably negate a trick or two. Ultimately, though, it comes to a battle of who can see who - and Alasse has a high move silently, greater invisibility, see invisibility, and the smarts to pull it off. Coautl's have diverse, powerful, spell-like abilities (including plane shift) - so it can escape, but it cannot *win*. All Alasse has to do is get past it into the temple. Alasse likely wins this one. The next battles may be more difficult - so far, she hasn't had to face a dedicated caster or someone who can deal with her invisibilty trick. (75%) Battle 3: Cryohydra This Hydra's big. It's nasty. If it gets close, it can crush Alasse like a tootsie roll pop. Alasse has two advantages, however. Firstly, she's got Mirror Image and Invisibility. Assuming she goes first (and she likely will - with her high spot check, she at least won't be stuck against a surprise round). Assuming she goes first, she's going to open with regular (not greater) invisibility and run to a corner, trying to draw it out of the pool. While it has blind-fight, it doesn't help it identify where she is - and inside the pool, it has the advantage. So what it's going to do is try and blast her with the breath weapon. Assuming it manages to hit with the breath weapon (I'd give it a 50/50), Alasse is in trouble. It's a DC 19 Reflex save - but since she has a +15 Reflex, she'll probably make the save. If she goes second, it blasts with the Breath first, and it will take it a couple of rounds to recover. See below. From there, she's got to take 47.25 damage (27d6/2 average). If she doesn't make the save, she's toast, pure and simple, but she'll probably live if she does. However, Alasse has a plan. If it misses with the first blast (or even if it hits), she's going to use a scroll of Fly and then cast Mirror Image, flying above it's reach and having the Images arranged in a circle. It doesn't know she has the capability, so if it blasts again it's likely going to blast where she is. She's going to study the creature from an angle and then hit it with three death attack crossbow bolts. Since blind-fight's benefits don't apply against ranged attacks, she's able to attack at +13/+13/+8 (+2 from Invis cancels out with the -2 for it's body being in the water) against an AC of 18. Assuming she hits with two attacks (more than reasonable), she gets to whack it with 22d6+2d8+2 damage. That's 88 damage. It'll live, and it has fast healing. Here's the trick, though. When Alasse finishes her attack, she will reappear - but so will her mirror images, and they'll be arranged (it IS a three-dimensional plane) so that it can only blast or or two, with herself preferably arranged to not take much damage. The Hydra will sink into the water, and Alasse is going to take the opportunity to prepare herself. She's going to cast Invisibility again, as well as Displacement and Shield of Faith, and then she's going to place a Silent Image of blank space in front of herself, so when it comes up, she can study it without it targeting her. This lasts a while. When it comes up, it'll blast her images (it will heal far before any of these spell's duration's end), and she can recast Mirror image. As long as she rolls high enough, she'll kill it. She's not guaranteed to win - fast healing and it's intense strength can just be too much. But she has a good chance. 60%. Battle 4 - Bebilith From the description of the encounter, if Alasse is uneasy, she's going to be invisibile - it lasts 10 minutes a pop at her level, and it's her best protection. However, in the interest of fairness and testing, I'll say that she doesn't have her buffs up. However, she IS looking for out friend the Bebelith - and so she likely catches eye of it at about the distance of fourty feet or so. Since the Bebelith has Improved Initative, it's about a 50/50 on who goes first. If it goes first, it's going to try and crush the poor elf, charging her in the interests of doing as much damage as it possibly can. It's going to hit. While Uncanny Dodge helps the elf somewhat, it's a +21 attack bonus against 29 AC. If it does miss, well, all the better for her. Luckilly, 15 average damage isn't going to hurt her too much. The DC 24 fortitude save, however, will. While she has a +11 fort bonus, if she fails the save, she's in serious trouble. While in no immediate danger, a high roll and she could pass out in the middle of the battle later on. _ (If she goes first or after Bebilith's round) Alasse is going to cast invisibility and then get as far away as she can, either by using a five-foot step (if the bebelith went first) or by moving silently fifteen feet away. If it tries to track her down by scent (which it can by making a five-foot step if it went first), her additional AC and total concealment will help her survive, though it's unlikely. If it makes a grab at her and gets her, she's gone. She doesn't have escape artist, she can't compete. It's dead. If she got away, it can't pinpoint where she is without getting within five feet. So she's going to use a Major Image to create a stronger scent image of her, and then move another fifteen feet away, while having the illusion (which has marginally stronger smell and footsteps) run the other way. From there, she's going to buff up with Displacement, Mirror Image, + Fly, while sneaking as far away from the mosnter as she can. By then, her major image is gone, so it'll start searching for the strongest scent. Alasse is going to fly into the air and use a scroll of Shield of Faith to give herself another boost in AC. Now, it's going to be angry, confused, and angry. It'll be searching for Alasse, but she's above it, and it can't find her. She'll study it for a round, and then hit it with two or three crossbow bolts. Though her invisibility will run out, the only range it's got is it's web, and it has to target it against one of 4-8 mirror images, each of which are displaced and flying above it's reach. A difficult proposition. Alasse can then cast Greater Invisibility, and repeat the study/shoot combo for five rounds. From there, it's either dead or shifted out. Damage reduction 10/good is mighty powerful and all, but it doesn't do much against 12d6+1d8+1 damage. Well, it does, but not enough. Alasse wins if she can confuse and trick the Bebelith. However, if it gets the drop on her, no amount of tricks in the world can save her against a grapple or full attack from this monster. I say 50% - but it depends on the particular Bebelith and on spot rolls. This one's really luck of the draw - a powerful opponent indeed. Battle 5 - Formian Myrmarch I'm going to go out and say it. There's only one way Alasse can beat the Myrmarch, and that's if she kills it in one round. Otherwise, it will Greater Teleport away, return with reinforcements, and grind her into the ground. However, Alasse has the advantage in that the Formian is *too smart* for it's own good. It wants to study her, but it has to find her, first - and her Nondetection just might save the day. So to start the battle. Since she appears within viewing distance of the Myrmarch, neither gets surprise. It's a toss up on who'll win initiative, but it has a higher modifier. Let's see who wins if it wins. There's two possibilities: A: It uses Charm Monster. Alasse fails the save, trusts the strange ant-thing, and follows it home. B: It's going to dissapear suddenly so it can clairvoyance on her - Alasse doesn't like the sound of this, so she uses her ever-present standby - invisibility; she's in a strange world, anyways, and she wants to check it out. Next round, the Formian is going to try and use a Divination. It's going to try, and it's going to fail, because Alasse has permanent nondetection. On that round, Alasse is going to use fly to navigate the strange surface. From there, well, there's two possibilities. A: It will attempt to find and capture her on it's own. B: It will teleport back to base (it IS on it's home plane as the most lawful creature out there), report the existence of a creature that's invisibile and has nondetection through telepathy, and return with the gear to deal with her. While it could ignore her, it's not likely to - she's an extraplanar invader. On the first, it's a stand-off. It can't find her, and she can't effectively find it. Nor, in fact, does she have any reason to attack it. She needs help to get off the plane, in fact. If she does have some reason to attack it (it calling out to her to give herself up for capture), she will use the time-honored Mirror Image/Fly/Study/Full Attack combo. If she hits with all three attacks, the average damage will take it out. Alasse may win this fight. However, in most situations, it's going to be a draw. So I'm going to put the win percentage a little oddly. A: Formian has no reinforcements: 30% (Alasse Win) 50% (Draw, Alasse continues on -) 20% (Formian Win) B: Formian has reinforcements: 10% (Alasse Win), 10% (Alasse Escapes), 80% (Formian Wins). Fighting a battle against the most organized, hive-mind creatures there are, on their home plane, against a creature that can teleport away and bring back reinforcements within two rounds? I don't want to be Alasse. Battle 6 - Fire Giant This one's fun. It sees Alasse a bit before she sees it, but according to the parameters, surprise rounds aren't really something to go with, so that's no problem, really. Since it has a -1 initiative and she has +6, I'd say it's fairly clear who's going first. Alasse is going to cast her standby, Invisibility, and move silently/hide 15 feet away from where she cast it. While it has a +17 spot, she has the ability to take ten on hide for a +49 hide while attempting to hide, and a +29 when attempting to move silently. It's a skill check, not an attack roll or saving throw, it doesn't succeed even on a natural twenty, even if she rolls a one, and she took ten. What's he going to do? He's going to dive under the water to wait it out. Alasse is going to look for somewhere to hide (where she can get cover on concealment) within the range increment of her crossbow where he can't see her, using Silent Image to complete her hiding place if neccessary, and she's going to take 20. Yes, it takes 20 rounds. Yes, the giant can and will stay under that long - or pop up and go back down - he's going to try and wait out her invisibility. Good idea, only when he pops up, she's going to be hiding at +39. In other words, he succeeds on a... nothing. Then, she's going to ready a mirror image for when he starts to pop up. He's going to see a lot of enemies crouching and ready to snipe him. He won't, however, see Alasse herself, who is hidden beyond his ability. In fact, since all of them are hidden , he won't see any of them - unless he starts looking before her readied action goes off, which is difficult, because it's readied for when his head pops out of the water. Then, she's going to study him for a full round (he's denied his Dex because he doesn't know where she is), and snipe him. Then, she's going to attack him at +12/+12/+7. On average, two of these are going to hit. That's 24d6+2d8, or 93 damage. If all three hit, he's out for the count. He's going to know where she is, and he's going to charge her. To be exact, one of her images. Which will poof. Even though she's going to have appeared (sniping takes a -20 penalty and is a move action, after all), he's not looking for her. From there, she's going to cast invisibility *again*. He's not going to go into the water this time, he knows that doesn't work, and he can't hold his breath forever. So he'll cast around, trusting his superior sight to find her. He *does* have a +17 check. It's not bad, and it's enough to know where something invisible is, though he still can't pinpoint it. But not a *lot* of invisible - and the text of mirror image says (emphasis mine): The figments mimic your actions, pretending to cast spells when you cast a spell, drink potions when you drink a potion, [I]levitate when you levitate, and so on. That means that they dissapear when she dissapears. Then, it's study, kill, and clap hands with the fire giant crowd. *Note* - if the Fire Giant goes first, he'll charge her, taking off about two-thirds of her hit points if he hits. From there, she simply disengages and *hides* as part of her move action, taking ten. If he sees her and charges, well, if he hit the first time, she's dead. If not, she can try again, and as soon as he fails once, she can invisibility and use the tricks outlined above. It's powerful and tricky, but she'll likely win. [85% chance for victory.] Battle 7 - Clay Golem Poor, poor Clay Golem. You have infinite SR, great attack bonii, decent hit points, damage reduction, and more, and you're still easy prey. If only you'd gone along with the Scarecrow on his quest for a brain. Before battle, Alasse is going to be skulking around, hiding + move silently, taking ten, and taking a (-5) penalty to move at her full speed. In case you're wondering, this is a result of 24. She's an unwelcome guest in a [supposedly] abandoned tower, if someone comes back she wants to be prepared. She can do it without penalty, so why not? When she sees the Golem, she's going to check it out, seeing if it's possible to move from the door. This will set it off. From this point, it will cast around looking for her. It won't find her. It has no ranks in any skill, and 1 wisdom. It can't find her. Ever. From here, she sits back, casts greater invisibility (so she wastes less spell slots), studies, shoots, studies, shoots, etc. until it dies. Since she'll hit on average twice on a study/shoot cycle, she kills it in two rounds. *On the off chance it goes first, and she can't hide, or if somehow it gets the surprise round, she has uncanny dodge. If it hits, (25% chance/attack [unlikely]) it takes three or more hits to take her down (let's say three). In essence, she can't lose. 99% (Alasse Victory.) Battle 8 - Giant Scorpion Giant Scorpion land. Good thing that, by taking ten on average, Alasse sees it at a hundred and eleven feet. From there, she's going to immediately invisible. Alasse is then going to cast a Silent Image of herself in front of the Scorpion. Since it won't respond to that, she'll assume she can buff up without problem. Which she will. Mirror Image and Displacement are going to pop on, and then she's going to study it and fire. One shot will hit, pushing it down to 104. From there, it's going to unbury itself and double move towards her general direction with unerring accuracy - as it gets closer, it's tremorsense will detect her, and that isn't hindered by invisibility. Big problem. Luckially, Alasse has a solution. She casts fly, disengages far above the creature (moving silent+hiding - not like there's too much to make sound, but even moving at full speed having a 24 check - enough to beat it no matter how high it gets). From there, it can't see her, tremorsense her, or hear her. It's effectively blinded, and therefore it loses it's Dex to AC. Study, shoot, kill. *Assuming the unlikely case that the scorpion gets off a charge, it's only 17 damage (that will likely hit). She simply casts fly [on defensive] and then flies away, taking the AOO but in otherwise good shape. From there, she simply goes quiet and hidden, and murders it. In fact, she doesn't even need death attacks to do so - it's just inordinately slow any other way. Alasse wins - [99%] Battle 9 - The Guardian Naga Alasse approaches the spire at her speed, taking ten on her hide and move silently to do so (and taking the -5 penalty), giving her a result of 24. Fun fact - since it's spot check is 23, it can't see her. I know this seems silly, but it's true. Chalk it up the fact that Alasse is *beyond* humanly graceful and sneaky, and gorram it, she's spent a couple lifetimes learning how to sneak. However, Alasse *does* see the Naga. With a 10 on her spot, she gets a result of 24. However, she's distracted - she's tired, hungry, and isn't expecting a Naga. With a modest result of 19, she sees the Naga from one hundred and ten feet away. With a +17 modifier on Knowledge - Dungeoneering (the skill that focuses on Aberrations). Since she succeeds on a four or better, she knows what it is. From here, Alasse gets paranoid. It's a huge snake-person-thing. She immediately invisibles, displaces, and mirror images, advancing to the Naga. She then readies an action to see invisibility if it attempts to cast. [Because she knows about it's invisibility]. From there, she asks it it to surrender, warning it that an attempt to spit acid or cast a spell will force her to use force. (It's a bit of a stretch for a free action, but there you go.) If it surrenders, well, good. If it responds with it's challenge, she casts the spell and studies it for a death attack, keeping it engaged with semantics for as long as she can. However, it's high sense motive will beat her bluff. When it casts: If it tries to see invisibility, her see invisibility goes on as well, and it sees her - and her mirrored, displaced, spread-out images. From there, she scatters, hiding in plain sight and taking ten. It can't do anything about it. If it uses Greater Invisibility, See Invisibility goes on. She laughs, tells it exactly what it's doing, offers it to surrender, and uses Divine Favor (take 10), waiting for it to use See Invisibility. _ From there - she hides + moves silently (mundanely), using the mist and her images to her advantage, and keeping them as spread-out as possible. From there, she studies for a death attack and fires with a full attack. Since it can't see her if she takes ten, it's effectively flat-footed (not to mention likely 'flanked' by her images, though I won't take that into account). +13/+13/+8 against 16 AC - or +15/+15/+10 if Divine Favor is on. Two of those hit. At least. If divine favor is on, probably all three. It has 93 average HP. Interestingly enough, the average of those two attacks is 93 (95 if Divine Favor). If that doesn't kill it, hide again, rinse, repeat [but subdual this time - she only needs to hit once, so the -4 penalty isn't much of a big deal], or just run up and hit it with a Vampiric Touch [if she's feeling brutal.] Lightning Bolt, an Area Attack, will help it, but not if it can't find her. Not to mention that she has to target one of the images, and, well, Alasse has a quite ridiculous Reflex Save. A naga has a lot of things at it's disposal, but it doesn't have Fireball (more useful in this case), True Seeing, or all that high of a spot or listen check. *If it *does* manage to see her, she uses Obscuring mist, hides again (hopefully behind cover or concealment), and recasts Displacement and Mirror Image (using third-level slots if neccessary) if they seem to be running out. Alasse wins. More of an 80% here - if it gets good rolls, and Alasse botches a couple attack rolls it's powerful spells might be able to turn the tide, or at least outlast Alasse's. However, Alasse is just *too* sneaky for the guardian. Alasse's real advantage here is that she can take 10 on her bread and butter. Shiny, ain't it? |
| Eela608-01-06, 02:00 PM | I did link to it, back on the first page. It's K's, by the way, not mine. By 'mine', I meant "my character - my stat block", etc. Here we go (again) - Assassin (Dungeonomicon) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=659653) Scroll down a bit. |
| Damon_Caskey08-01-06, 02:06 PM | Well, here's my first attempt at a build for this contest, using Damon_Caskey's Engetsu Shinobi. Human Engetsu Shinobi Str 10 Dex 14 (18) Con 14 Int 16 Wis 12 Cha 8 HP = 57 BAB = 10 Fort = 3 + 1 + 2 = 6 Ref = 7 + 4 + 2 = 13 Will = 7 + 2 + 1 + 2 = 12 AC = 10 + 4+3 + 4 + 4 + 5 + 2 = 32 Touch = 10 + 4 + 4 + 5 + 2 = 25 Flat = 10 + 4+3 + 4 + 2 = 23 ASF = 10% - 10% = 0% Speed = 30 + 30 + 15 = 75 Longbow attack = 10 + 4 + 1 = 15/10 or 13/13/8 Longbow damage = 1D8 + 1D6 fire + 1D6 electricity + 1 (Avg 12) Longbow LS damage = 1D8 + 1D6 + 1D6 + 3D6 + 1 (Avg 23) Weapon Pool - 4 Medium Armour 1 Longbow 1 Net 2 Feats - 1 Human, 4 levels Point Blank Shot Rapid Shot Armoured Caster (Reduces ASF by 5%) Armoured Caster (Stacks with itself) Iron Will Endurance (Given) Run (Given) Skills - 130 ranks Concentration 13 + 1 = 14 Spot 13 + 2 = 15 Listen 13 + 2 = 15 Hide 13 + 4 = 17 Move Silently 13 + 4 = 17 Search 13 + 3 = 16 Tumble 13 + 4 + 2 = 19 Sense Motive 13 + 2 = 15 Escape Artist 13 + 4 + 2 = 19 Balance 13 + 4 + 2 = 19 Spells - 4/4/3/2 0 - Resistance, Light x3 1 - Golem Strike, Grave Strike, Grease, Comprehend Languages 2 - Darkvision, Resist Energy, Knock 3 - Fly x2 Golem Strike and Grave Strike allows criticals and other precision damages to apply to constructs and undead, respectively. This would include Lunar Strike. Features Lunar Savant - All skills are treated as having 1 rank. Lunar Traces - Cannot be tracked outdoors. Lunar Serenity - Immune to mind-affecters. Lunar Strike +3D6 - Like Sneak Attack. Lunar Stride - +15ft base speed. Evasion 18410 +1 Flaming Shocking Composite Longbow 3lb 10100 +3 Mithral Shirt 12lb 4000 Cloak of Resistance +2 1lb 4000 Gloves of Dexterity +2 3000 Ring of Shield of Faith (CL 1) 2000 Boots of Expeditious Retreat (CL 1) 1lb 2000 Medallion of Shield (CL 1) 700 Scroll of Greater Invisibility (7 rounds) 700 Scroll of Dimension Door 1500 Scroll of Greater Magic Weapon (CL 20) 300 Scroll of See Invisibility 2000 Handy Haversack 5lb 20 400 Arrows 60lb 60 3 Nets 18lb 48790 In the Haversack... All scrolls, nets, and arrows = 78lb. 19lbs always carried, 28lbs with 2 weapons out. Below light load. Note that the rules for custom wondrous items in the DMG were used. You did say any core SRD was legal. Pregame - None. Tactics - This one's pretty simple. I just use my superior speed to stay out of its reach while pinging away with my bow. Average damage is approximately 4, so I finish it off in about 70 rounds. Postgame - Used up to 4gp of arrows, 100%.Pregame - Couatl tries Charm Monster. I am immune. Tactics - Start off with Fly, and take to the air. Start sniping the summons as they spawn; they can only hit me on a 20 anyways. Shoot animals for 7 rounds, killing roughly 1 per round. Next volley, Scorching Rays. Rays need a 13 to hit, so 40% chance to hit. 1 Ray at 40% of avg 14 = 6 dmg. After the first Scorching Ray, I use Resist Energy (Fire), reducing damage from subsequent rays to 1 average. After the Couatl discharges all his rays, I've most likely finished off all the summons, and taken roughly 15 damage (assuming 2 summons hit me). Now it's just me and him. Simple enough, when he's corporeal, I shoot with my bow. He goes ethereal, and I use See Invisibility. I assume he'll try to start his grapple with a bite into improved grab; this misses, as he needs to roll a 20 to hit. I shoot him a couple times with my bow, having a 45% chance to hit his Mage Armor-ed AC using Rapid Shot. .45 x 2 x 12 = 11 damage per round. If he gets smart and starts doing regular touch attacks to start the grapple, I can still slip free 60% of the time using Esacpe Artist; alternatively, one casting of Grease makes me ungrappleable. Postgame - Used 302gp in arrows and scrolls, 75%.Pregame - Get herded by FREAKIN' GIANTS. wheee. Tactics - I most likely win initiative (80%), but on the off chance that I lose it, the giant has a 30% chance to hit with his charge, doing 35 avg; .2 x .3 x 35 = 2 dmg. After that, I start flying. If I lost initiative, I take an AoO for flying out of his threatened area, dealing 35 at 30% again; .3 x 35 x .2 = 2 dmg. Once in the air, I go shot-for-shot with the giant, dealing 9 damage per shot (50%); so 9 damage per round. The giant deals 24 damage per shot (5%); 1.2 damage per round. If it's stupid enough to get in a fire-fight, I win. After the giant submerges itself, I fly 200ft away and camp. The other giants will disperse to give us fighting room (as per terrain entry), so I take these rounds to gain an aiming bonus. Obviously, I choose the direction with the least lava. When the giant comes back up, I take a prepared action to shoot him in the face, and continue to fight. The giant can stay submerged for roughly 5 minutes, so I assume I lose my flight for the rest of the battle. If he resubmerges, I do the same pattern; if he tries to kill me with rocks, I win; if he tries to chase me, I stay out of his reach with my superior speed. Postgame - Potentially used 10gp in arrows, 75%.Pregame - Take a single shot at the golem. It doesn't react, I have dealt it 7 damage and assume it's harmless. I get surprised by it when I try to move it. Tactics - After taking a surprise attack for 18 (50% = 9), I win initiative (80%) and use Greater Invisibility. If it gets any more attacks on me, for some unkown reason, then it subsequently only has 5% chance to hit; effectively 1 damage per attack. Then I use complete full attacks for 7 rounds, dealing 7 per shot (70% + 70% + 45% = 185% = 13 damage per round). I kill it within 1 round of becoming visible. Postgame - Used 701gp, 100%Pregame - I notice the scorpion at 130ft, and take a surprise attack against it. Surprise attack is for 23 damage (50% = 11). Tactics - I most likely win initiative (75%) and take a full attack, for 23 damage each again (.40 + .40 + .15 = .95 x .75 = .7 = 16). If I lose initiative, I'm still just barely out of charge reach. After that, it's a simple matter of casting Fly and taking potshots. Postgame - Used up to 3gp in arrows, 100% Well, there's a few done... gonna post more later today. This was starting to get me really worried, until I realized a Ranger can do the same thing. There is one catch though, you misread Lunar Serenity. You are immune to direct emotional changes like Anger and Fear, not mind effects in general. I might take this as a need to reword the feature, but then, that is one of the benifits of this exercise. I'm still waiting for someone to take the Blue mage in, that is really a nice peice of work and I can't wait to see what he can do. DC |
| SeptimusMagistos08-01-06, 02:14 PM | I've updated the things deemed "unclear" by the esteemed judge(s). |
| Eela608-01-06, 02:19 PM | I intend to take in the Blue Mage when I'm done with the Assassin. Should be a lot of fun - might be able to give some surprises to the caster-type enemies. On a side note, how exactly do you form Spoiler Boxes? Note that the Asssassin's Death Strike works against any creature, not just creatures with a discernable anatomy. |
| shadow mage08-01-06, 03:23 PM | Something about this competition disturbs me... shouldn't a well made class actually lose to many of the monsters? And if a class wins a lot, isn't that a mark of poor design due to imbalance? Then again, if a class loses a lot, that means it is probably imbalanced in the other direction. Which raises a good question- about how many different types of encounters should a well balanced class be able to win and lose? This does concern me, because I don't think K's theoretics regarding a PC of a certain ECL and a monster of a matching CR are equivalent. At all. Too many "what if's". While this is probably more appropriate for the C.O. forums, I'll give it a shot anyway, using Heretic888's Shinobi-No-Bushi (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=188379). It will take a while, however. -Shadow Mage |
| MaverickWolf08-01-06, 03:58 PM | If someone would bring my Spellfire Warrior and Feral Warrior through one of these, it would be wonderfully appreciated. I'd enter one myself, but I just don't think I'm quite good enough as making the best of what I've got to do it. I might anyway later, but we'll see. ((NOTE: I know both of them see use in current campaigns by various board members, but I'd just like to see the numbers.)) |
| LordPendragon08-01-06, 04:17 PM | I have one problem with the battle of Assassin vs Animated Object... after using the 2 construct bane bolts, you have no means of damaging the enemy at all. Sneak Attacks don't affect it, after all. Also... Bolts of Outsider Bane need to have a type of outsider picked. Are we to assume that out of your 5 bolts, one of them is against good outsiders?? Remember that there are 8 types of outsider bane that can be picked. Damon... With regards to the comment about Lunar Serenity, how do you determine what is an "emotion based" effect?? EDIT - I retract my statement about Death Attack not working, after rereading the Assassin class. That's kinda hacked, though. |
| Damon_Caskey08-01-06, 05:55 PM | Damon... With regards to the comment about Lunar Serenity, how do you determine what is an "emotion based" effect?? I have given that some thought, and the answer is, you don’t. It’s too subjective. I’m going to edit the wording to include specific effects as soon as I finish this post. It will be simply an immunity to Fear, Anger, Sadness and any affect that would otherwise change your morale; good or bad. In a nutshell, it means you are too hardcore to be swayed by fear, anger or depression, but on the other side of the coin, Bard songs, Aid spells, and imagining yourself in a little happy place have no affect either. Granted you are very tough against most mind effects, but that is taken care of by good will save. It’s nothing supernatural, and doesn’t protect you from other mind effects like charms, illusions, compulsions, and the like. DC Edit: Lunar Serenity is fixed. A simple omission in the feature description should take care of the problem. |
| wolfie-kun08-01-06, 08:39 PM | It'll take a little while to get a build together, but I'll use MoonSprite's Overdrive Knight. |
| Eela608-01-06, 09:45 PM | I have one problem with the battle of Assassin vs Animated Object... after using the 2 construct bane bolts, you have no means of damaging the enemy at all. Sneak Attacks don't affect it, after all. Also... Bolts of Outsider Bane need to have a type of outsider picked. Are we to assume that out of your 5 bolts, one of them is against good outsiders?? Remember that there are 8 types of outsider bane that can be picked. Note that the only requirement for Death attack is that you study them for a round and they be denied their Dex to AC. It works on any creature - it functions on both real and mystical anatomy; I.E, constructs, aberrations, oozes and the like can all be targeted by Death Attack. The Assassin is both a caster and an attacker, and as such is not limited by the restrictions of Mortal sneak attacks. Of course, the fact that when sneak attack works, it's insanely better is a plus for it. (You need to wait until level seven to even full attack with Death attack, they can't just be flanked, and you need to waste an entire full-round action.) On the Outsider bit, you're completely right. I'll just edit the battle and turn all the bolts into Construct bane (constructs can be a pain in the ass.) It doesn't change much. |
| shadow mage08-01-06, 11:29 PM | Hm, the more I look at these challenges, the more I wish I were a Cleric, Druid, Rogue, Sorcerer, or Wizard. These are very difficult challenges, and I'm very curious to see if any character of any of the presented custom classes can fare even 50/50 down the list. A few are inherently simple to beat, but the demon and hydra will be the show-stoppers, I think, for noncasting classes. Edit: And as a question, is material from Forgotten Realms permitted? I've managed to stay Core rules only thus far (as much as I can with the class I am using, which is inherently part Oriental Adventures as well), but I've found a couple things that are quite... useful to me, particularly in Magic of Faerun. -Shadow Mage |
| LordPendragon08-02-06, 01:36 AM | Ran 3 more battles... Finished the driders, salamander, and hydra. Check page 2 for the details, in my original post. They're getting harder now... I did the easy ones first :rolleyes: |
| Eela608-02-06, 02:11 AM | Updated with the Bebelith battle + Formain battle. Assuming just what's given here, Alasse wins. But the Greater Teleport+Hive Mind is just ridiculous, honestly. In any situation on Mechanus itself, I have to say she loses (the 10% win is only because she has a chance of killing it in two rounds outright.) |
| SeptimusMagistos08-02-06, 09:21 AM | Hm, the more I look at these challenges, the more I wish I were a Cleric, Druid, Rogue, Sorcerer, or Wizard. You know, there is a competition like that. |
| Damon_Caskey08-02-06, 09:56 AM | Alright, just updated the score card. Let me know if you updated or added a challenger and I missed you. DC |
| shadow mage08-02-06, 10:39 AM | You know, there is a competition like that. This is true, but there's no fun in going the easy route. Besides, playing C.O. with a custom class is becoming fun. Also, any word on my question regarding Forgotten Realms material? I figure with the inclusion of PHBII and similar material, which is more recent than anything I have (my newest book is CW), I figure a weapon material taken from Magic of Faerun wouldn't be too much. -Shadow Mage |
| Eela608-02-06, 10:54 AM | Er, I seem to have dissapeared from the scorecard entirely. |
| Damon_Caskey08-02-06, 10:59 AM | Fixing scorecard, and as for material, look to the common sense clause again. Bring it in if you like, but cite what it is/does/came from for those of us who lack the material. DC |
| LordPendragon08-02-06, 02:19 PM | Well, I finished all the fights for the Engetsu Shinobi, and wrote a short backstory for it. Here's the finished version, and I updated my earlier post also... Name - Archie "Barrelbandit" Merryman. Age - 27 Height - 178 (5'7") Weight - 70 (154) Hair - Dark brown Eyes - Grey Skin - Tan Notable Features - None Description - Archie is an intelligent combatant, relying mostly on quick thinking and quick feet to see him through a battle; he's no pushover however, and can take his fair share of hits. History - Archie started his career in the army, and learned there how to fire a bow and use heavier armour effectively. During a certain mission, Archie learned of the Engetsu clan, and investigated, as was his wont. Upon discovering their secretive secret lair, he had no choice but to join the Engetsu or die where he stood. Since then, the Engetsu training has helped Archie progress far beyond his previous abilities. Even so, he still tends to engage the enemy as a soldier; firepower against firepower, with no hiding or deception involved.Human Engetsu Shinobi Str 10 Dex 14 (18) Con 14 Int 16 Wis 12 Cha 8 HP = 57 BAB = 10 Fort = 3 + 1 + 2 = 6 Ref = 7 + 4 + 2 = 13 Will = 7 + 2 + 1 + 2 = 12 AC = 10 + 4+3 + 4 + 4 + 5 + 1 = 31 Touch = 10 + 4 + 4 + 5 + 1 = 24 Flat = 10 + 4+3 + 4 + 1 = 22 ASF = 10% - 10% = 0% Speed = 30 + 30 + 15 = 55 Longbow attack = 10 + 4 + 1 = 15/10 or 13/13/8 Longbow damage = 1D8 + 1D6 fire + 1D6 electricity + 1 (Avg 12) Longbow LS damage = 1D8 + 1D6 + 1D6 + 3D6 + 1 (Avg 23) Weapon Pool - 4 Medium Armour 1 Longbow 1 Net 2 Feats - 1 Human, 4 levels Point Blank Shot Rapid Shot Armoured Caster (Reduces ASF by 5%) Armoured Caster (Stacks with itself) Iron Will Endurance (Given) Run (Given) Skills - 130 ranks Concentration 13 + 1 = 14 Spot 13 + 2 = 15 Listen 13 + 2 = 15 Hide 13 + 4 = 17 Move Silently 13 + 4 = 17 Search 13 + 3 = 16 Tumble 13 + 4 + 2 = 19 Sense Motive 13 + 2 = 15 Escape Artist 13 + 4 + 2 = 19 Balance 13 + 4 + 2 = 19 Spells - 4/4/3/2 0 - Resistance, Light x3 1 - Golem Strike, Grave Strike, Grease, Comprehend Languages 2 - Darkvision, Resist Energy, Knock 3 - Fly x2 Golem Strike and Grave Strike allows criticals and other precision damages to apply to constructs and undead, respectively. This would include Lunar Strike. Features Lunar Savant - All skills are treated as having 1 rank. Lunar Traces - Cannot be tracked outdoors. Lunar Serenity - Immune to mind-affecters. Lunar Strike +3D6 - Like Sneak Attack. Lunar Stride - +15ft base speed. Evasion 18410 +1 Flaming Shocking Composite Longbow 3lb 10100 +3 Mithral Shirt 12lb 4000 Cloak of Resistance +2 1lb 4000 Gloves of Dexterity +2 2000 Ring of Protection +1 2000 Boots of Longstrider (CL 1) 1lb 4000 Medallion of Shield (CL 1) 700 Scroll of Greater Invisibility (7 rounds) 700 Scroll of Dimension Door 600 4 Scrolls of See Invisibility 400 8 Potions of Cure Light Wounds 2000 Handy Haversack 5lb 20 400 Arrows 60lb 60 3 Nets 18lb 48990 In the Haversack... All scrolls, potions, nets, and arrows = 78lb. 19lbs always carried, 28lbs with 2 weapons out. Below light load. Note that the rules for custom wondrous items in the DMG were used. You did say any core SRD was legal.Pregame - None. Tactics - This one's pretty simple. I just use my superior speed or flight to stay out of its reach while pinging away with my bow. Average damage is approximately 4, so I finish it off in about 70 rounds. Postgame - Used up to 4gp of arrows, 100%.Pregame - Couatl tries Charm Monster. I succeed the save (80%). Tactics - Start off with Fly, and take to the air. Start sniping the summons as they spawn; they can only hit me on a 20 anyways. Shoot animals for 7 rounds, killing roughly 1 per round. Next volley, Scorching Rays. Rays need a 12 to hit, so 45% chance to hit. 1 Ray at 45% of avg 14 = 6 dmg. After the first Scorching Ray, I use Resist Energy (Fire), reducing damage from subsequent rays to 1 average. After the Couatl discharges all his rays, I've most likely finished off all the summons, and taken roughly 15 damage (assuming 2 summons hit me). Now it's just me and him. Simple enough, when he's corporeal, I shoot with my bow. He goes ethereal, and I use See Invisibility. I assume he'll try to start his grapple with a bite into improved grab; this misses, as he needs to roll a 20 to hit. I shoot him a couple times with my bow, having a 45% chance to hit his Mage Armor-ed AC using Rapid Shot. .45 x 2 x 12 = 11 damage per round. If he gets smart and starts doing regular touch attacks to start the grapple, I can still slip free 60% of the time using Esacpe Artist; alternatively, one casting of Grease makes me ungrappleable. Postgame - Used 302gp in arrows and scrolls, 75%.Pregame - Get locked in by the stone slab doors. Tactics - Start fight with a full attack after winning initiative (70%). If I lost initiative, I take 9 head attacks to the face, flatfooted, dealing 10 each (.60 x 10 x 9 = 54); after an attack like that, I have no option but to retreat using Dimension Door. If I won initiative, I get attacked by 9 heads (ugh) for 10 each (.15 x 10 x 9 = 14), although my better AC saves me from most of this. In either case, I can't overcome the hydra's fast healing, or sunder its heads. I retreat using Dimension Door. Postgame - Used 700gp, and never really won, 25% for living.Pregame - Bebilith has 50% chance to hear me, I have 40% chance to hear it. Assumed surprise. Suffer a flat-footed attack with its web. Tactics - Lose initiative, Bebilith takes a full attack on my still-surprised face for 18 (90%) and 9 twice (65%). That's a 42% chance to rend my armour for 32, which won't destroy it anyways, since it has 16 hardness and over 30 HP. In any case, I take average 28 damage. I most likely fail the Fort save for 3 Con (15%), losing another 10 HP to Con loss. Average remaining HP is 19. Make 2 Concentration checks at DC 15, and use a Scroll of Dimension Door defensively. I run the hell away and drink a few Potions of Cure Light so I don't die in 9 rounds when I take another 7 Con loss from poison, and subsequently lose 40 HP. Postgame - Used 700gp, 25% for living again.Pregame - Myrmarch notices me and uses his buffs. I am stupid and don't notice. It takes a flat-footed attack against me with its javelins for 7 Dex damage (80%). Tactics - I can try fighting back, but it's futile. The Myrmarch will teleport away if it gets weakened, and I have no way of stopping that. Nor do I have an effective way to stop it from coming back once it regains full health. Even if I try to Dimension Door away, the Myrmarch can just teleport around until it finds me. It would likely be a long and arduous fight, but I really have no chance here. Postgame - Lie down and die, 0%Pregame - Get herded by FREAKIN' GIANTS. wheee. Tactics - I most likely win initiative (80%), but on the off chance that I lose it, the giant has a 35% chance to hit with his charge, doing 35 avg; .2 x .35 x 35 = 3 dmg. After that, I start flying. If I lost initiative, I take an AoO for flying out of his threatened area, dealing 35 at 35% again; .35 x 35 x .2 = 3 dmg. Once in the air, I go shot-for-shot with the giant, dealing 9 damage per shot (50%); so 9 damage per round. The giant deals 24 damage per shot (5%); 1.2 damage per round. If it's stupid enough to get in a fire-fight, I win. After the giant submerges itself, I fly 200ft away and camp. The other giants will disperse to give us fighting room (as per terrain entry), so I take these rounds to gain an aiming bonus. Obviously, I choose the direction with the least lava. When the giant comes back up, I take a prepared action to shoot him in the face, and continue to fight. The giant can stay submerged for roughly 5 minutes, so I assume I lose my flight for the rest of the battle. If he resubmerges, I do the same pattern; if he tries to kill me with rocks, I win; if he tries to chase me, I stay out of his reach with my superior speed or jsut recast Fly. Postgame - Potentially used 10gp in arrows, 75%.Pregame - Take a single shot at the golem. It doesn't react, I have dealt it 7 damage and assume it's harmless. I get surprised by it when I try to move it. Tactics - After taking a surprise attack for 18 (65% = 12), I win initiative (80%) and attack with a net after taking a 5ft step back. It has a 40% chance to get out of the net every round, so I expect it to be held for 2 rounds by each net. If it gets any more attacks on me, it only has 15% chance to hit; effectively 3 damage per attack. Then I use complete full attacks for 7 rounds, dealing 7 per shot (70% + 70% + 45% = 185% = 13 damage per round). I kill it within 10 rounds. Postgame - Used 61gp, 100%Pregame - I notice the scorpion at 130ft, and take a surprise attack against it. Surprise attack is for 23 damage (50% = 11). Tactics - I most likely win initiative (75%) and take a full attack, for 23 damage each again (.40 + .40 + .15 = .95 x .75 = .7 = 16). If I lose initiative, I'm still just barely out of charge reach. After that, it's a simple matter of casting Fly and taking potshots. Postgame - Used up to 3gp in arrows, 100%Pregame - I notice the Naga at 170ft, she is still unaware of me if I was hiding. In fact, I can stay hidden and sneak all the way up into the tower to ambush the naga. I move up to the door and reveal myself to the Naga, since they aren't inherently evil or violent. Tactics - The naga is likely to mention his "test" and immediately begin his round-by-round tactics. I win initiative (60%) and get a full round of Lunar Strikes on it; .9 + .9 + .65 = 2.45 x 23 = 57. Failing that, I will leave the tower as soon as the Naga uses invisibility, and cast See Invisibility on myself. This fight is basically going to be a chain of him casting Greater Invisibility, me trying to get around it by using See Invis or Fly, and him dispelling my spells. Overall, it should progress fairly evenly unless he dispels my Resist Energy (Fire), and rocks me with Scorching Rays. On the other hand, with my superior stealth I could just walk right past this encounter and up to the higher levels of the tower. In the spirit of the competition, however, I decided not to do that. Postgame - Used likely 1900gp, 25%Pregame - I come down the stairs, and fall into the rakshasa's little trap. I make the Will save vs Charm person with little difficulty (95%), and have a 40% chance to see through his lies, even though the disguise will be too good for me. I assume we converse for a few rounds, and I eventually catch on that the thing is lying; combat ensues, with him getting a surprise round. Tactics - He casts Suggestion in the surprise round and I save (85%). Afterwards, it can go either way wth initiative; in either case, he is likely to Acid Arrow me, and I would respond with Resist Energy (Acid), making me immune. His next option is Magic Missile, to which I am immune. After a couple rounds of failing to damage me, he'll likely switch to Invisibility, which I counter with See Invisibility. He can try to run away, but I will follow and gun him down. The energy damage on my bow penetrates DR, so I deal a consistant 7 per attack, average 12 per round. This really is an easy fight for this build. Postgame - used 301gp, 75%.Pregame - Cast Fly on myself before moving anywhere, and then use the smoke as concealment to make a Hide check (27) and exit the tunnel. Salamander has a 35% chance to see me. Tactics - Assuming I make it out without being seen (likely), I reach an altitude of 200ft and start shooting downwards onto it. The first attacks are fully aimed, against the salamander's flat-footed AC of 17 (.85 + .85 + .6 = 2.3 x 19 = 44). He Dispels my Fly on his turn, and I recast it and move down to 100ft. After this initial series, he is left with no more Dispels, and I have a handy-dandy Scroll of Greater Invisibility which will be great for this situation. I proceed to use it and continue to wreak havoc on his flat-footed corpse until he dies. Postgame - Used 701gp, 75%Pregame - No darkvision out to 80ft, so I am surprised by the driders. Their first round I take 3 Lightning Bolts, failing my save on a 1 or 2 (10% = 2 x 3 = 6 avg). Tactics - I use a round to cast Resist Energy on myself, choosing electricity, of course. Their 3 lightning bolts now average 4 damage per round. Second round, I cast Fly, and dodge another 3 bolts; average damage total is 14. I fly up and start bowing them in the faces; Mage Armour-ed AC is 21 (65%), so I deal average 21 x 1.7 = 36 per round. That'll drop 1 in 2 rounds if I can see it, or 4 rounds if I can't see it but I'm aiming at the right square. Either way, my flight gets dispelled, and I fall, taking probably 10 damage. I start taking blind shots, and if I hit, then I hit; if I don't then they still run out of spells before killing me (4 LB's each = 6 + 4 x 3 = 18, MM is ineffective due to Shield). This forces the driders to melee, or to flee, and in either case I win (their attacks need a 20 to hit my AC). Postgame - Used up to 3gp in arrows, 75%. Phew... too much work :rolleyes: EDIT - Found a small-print in the section on creating magic items. There's actually a multiplier based on the duration of the spell. Changed my items to be compliant, and re-evaluated all statistics in my entry. Overall success rate was unaffected. |
| LordPendragon08-02-06, 02:55 PM | Accidental double-post, due to crappy connection. Please ignore. |
| SeptimusMagistos08-02-06, 02:56 PM | Alright, just updated the score card. Let me know if you updated or added a challenger and I missed you. DC I have changed certain parts to make the outcome slightly more clear. |
| Seerow08-02-06, 03:50 PM | Edited my earlier post with the Aeromancer's fluff. I'll start working on challenges shortly. (Psst I'm saddened I didn't make it onto the scorecard thing. I mean, all my mechanical stuff was there, and you put the assassin up before he had a name or anything... D=) |
| Damon_Caskey08-02-06, 04:03 PM | Edited my earlier post with the Aeromancer's fluff. I'll start working on challenges shortly. (Psst I'm saddened I didn't make it onto the scorecard thing. I mean, all my mechanical stuff was there, and you put the assassin up before he had a name or anything... D=) Sorry Seerow, I didn’t see your class post. I’ll get you on the card. DC |
| LordPendragon08-02-06, 04:09 PM | Seerow, about your Aeromancer build... I miscalculated the costs of some items earlier, most notably the Ring of Shield and Ring of Shield of Faith... they should both cost 4000gp. |
| Seerow08-02-06, 04:14 PM | Seerow, about your Aeromancer build... I miscalculated the costs of some items earlier, most notably the Ring of Shield and Ring of Shield of Faith... they should both cost 4000gp. How so? The formula is CL x SL x 2000 for a continuous use item, isn't it? 1 x 1 x 2000 = 2000. Even so, I think I had some money to spare left over, I think I can still afford them by dropping a potion or two. |
| LordPendragon08-02-06, 04:46 PM | How so? The formula is CL x SL x 2000 for a continuous use item, isn't it? 1 x 1 x 2000 = 2000. Even so, I think I had some money to spare left over, I think I can still afford them by dropping a potion or two.That is so... however, there is a multiplier based on the duration of the spell. For spells with a duration of 1 minute/level, the price is multiplied by 2. It was in the small print :embarrass: |
| Seerow08-02-06, 05:18 PM | Updated with first two matches. Feel free to pick holes in my strategies as you like. |
| tiluvias9908-02-06, 05:45 PM | I think I'll play Szatany's Adventurer Class, using the Ultimate Druid and the Ultimate Sorcerer for his Imitations. I'll post a character soon. |
| benstundze08-02-06, 06:05 PM | ok so ill volunteer my dagger mouth class any 1 care to try it? (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=658783) |
| Eela608-03-06, 12:25 AM | Yet another battle. So far, I haven't had to take advantage of Alasse's insanely high hide + move silently, but here it comes to her advantage. All the same, the Fire Giant's a ***** - I mean this in a good way. Took a lot of thought to get through that battle. Meh. If I had redone Alasse's equipment at this stage, I would give her a couple extra scrolls of fly with her spare cash - not to mention something to boost her 2nd level spells/day. I have a feeling round two will involve multiple encounters in a row. *Note* - I've finished up the Clay Golem, Scorpion, and Guardian Naga now. Flavor Forthcoming. |
| Damon_Caskey08-03-06, 11:55 AM | Moved HERE (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=679421) New thread has updated scorecard and such. Should be a lot cleaner. |
| Clawhound08-03-06, 01:04 PM | I'll try my Lorechaser class. You can find it here: Lorechaser (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Lorechaser_%28DnD_Class%29) Furball the Lorechaser. Mostly done. Could use tweaking. Lorechaser 10 Catkin (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Catkin_%28DnD_Race%29) Str 8 (-1), Dex 16 (+3), Con 14 (+2), Int 12 (+1), Wi 8 (-1), Ch 17 (+4) Hit Points: 58, BAB +7/+2. Short Sword +1 (+11/+6, 1d6 + [+5 or -0]), Bow (+10/+5, 1d4) Fortitude +7, Reflex +12, Will +6 AC: 17 Feats: Improved Initiative, Skill Focus (diplomacy), Iron Will, Point Blank Shot Skills: Balance (5 ranks) + 12, Bluff (0 ranks) +6, Climb (5 ranks) +6, Diplomacy (10 ranks) +17, Disable Device (5 ranks) +6, Escape Artist (10 ranks) +15, Hide (10 ranks) +17, Knowledge (local) (5 ranks) +6, Listen (10 ranks) +9, Move Silently (10 ranks) +13, Open Lock (7 ranks) +10, Search (10 ranks) +11, Spot (10 ranks) +9, Tumble (10 ranks) +13, Use Magic Device (10 ranks) +17. Spells are pre-defined by the class. Two Bag of Tricks type 3 (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Bag_of_Tricks_%28SRD_Wondrous_Item%29) Rod of Wonder (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Rod_of_Wonder_%28SRD_Magic_Rod%29) Broom of Flying (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Broom_of_Flying_%28SRD_Wondrous_Item%29) +1 short sword, +1 short bow, 20 arrows Lockpicks Stock potions everyone oughta have: Potion of Energy Resistance cold 20, Potion of Energy Resistance fire 20, Potion of Cure Critical Wounds, Potion of Slow Poison, Oil of Fog Cloud Rules to note: The lorechaser can use his luck points to get lucky. This means that he can determine the contents of each bag of tricks 1/day, and the effect of the Rod of Wonder 1/day. (I just added that rule. Without it, the Rod of Wonder was an astoundingly powerful exploitable item of the class. Thus, the limit.) 1. Colossal Animated Object. Hop on his broom of flying. Use knowledge (local) to find a cliff nearby. There's one an hour away. He flies there. It's a 40' drop, average damage 14 per drop (4 hp after DR). The animated object charges him and drops off the cliff. The lorechaser then leads it back around. So, assuming one drop every five minutes doing four hit points of damage with every fall after DR, it will take 63 runs, or 315 minutes, or about five hours. (This is well within the flight time of the broom) If there is no drop, he flies towads the nearest, largest fortification. The colossal statue then becomes "somebody else's problem" TM. (Cost 0 gp) 2. Coatl. This is all diplomacy. The coatl gets the drop, goes invisible, and reads the lorechaser's mind. He sees that the lorechaser is good. He knows that he can defeat the lorechaser. He also knows that the lorechaser won't go away. He is good, so he can't abuse the lorechaser. It then becomes a waiting game. In the end, the lorechaser's diplomacy should win it over. Otherwise, the lorechaser waits until the next contestant shows up, then slips away while the coatl is busy. (Cost 0 gp) 3. Hyrda. Fly to ceiling. Potion of energy resistance (300 gp). Summon Rhinos with the bag to distract the hydra, attacking the body. (Charge does not trigger AoO). Summon an Elephant with Rod of Wonder. Have elephant grapple hydra and pull it out of the water. Summoned critters should finish off the body. (300 gp) 4. Babelith. Summon all the biggest critters that you can. Drink a potion of slow poison (300 gp). Have them charge through, riding the elephant. The elephant and three rhinos should give the Babelith pause of thought, even with its DR 10/good. The lorechasers high touch AC should protect him. The elephant has a base grapple of +32 vs the babelith's +29 and a strength check of +11 (which should free the elephant from the web in only two rounds.) Likewise, the rhinos can easily destroy the webbing. (Cost = 0gp) 5. Formian Myrmarch. Tactic: don't get caught. Potion of invisibility (300 gp). Fly in a zig-zag pattern across the patchwork. If it locates me, become 1/12 size via Rod of Wonder (I am now tiny with a big AC bonus and +8 to hide). Hope to get lucky. (Cost = 300gp) 6. Fire Giant: On approach, summon elephant and two rhinos. (I am well warned.) On fighting, win initiative (use luck if I must) and turn invisible. The elephant grapples while the rhinos charge. Draw reinforcements from the bag as necessary. (Cost = 300gp) 7. Clay Golem. Use the Rod of Wonder to turn it ethereal. (It's non living and 600 lbs). 8. Monstrous Scorpion. Fly over it. There was a scorpion??? Just for fun, toss out rhinos and the elephant. When those run out, keep tossing out other critters. That should kill it. (Cost = 0gp) 9. Naga. The flying lorechaser gets surprised. Ouch. He faerie fires the naga. Naga responds with a lightning bolt, which he dodges. Draws a rhino. Naga goes ouch. Naga casts spell back. Lorechaser goes Ouch. And draws another rhino. The naga gets a double-ouch and it switches to divine power to handle the rhinos. At this point, it is behind. It can't do damage faster than critters gets summoned. It parleys and lets the lorechaser through. 10. Rakshasa. Lorechaser detects thoughts on the little girl. Rakshasa casts haste. Lorechaser rides broom into air. Rakshasa casts charm person (DC 14). Lorechaser has a so-so will save (+6) with a reroll attempt, but should succeed 2/3 of the time. Given his built-in reroll attempts, he succeeds 5/6 of the time. He saves 50/50 vs. the suggestion, 75% of the time with a reroll. At that point, the lorechaser will faerie fire from the Rod, then draw his pokeman. 11. Salamander. Invisible. He casts dispel magic. Lose invisiblity. Dang. Elephant. He summons and elemental. Rhino, rhino. Its yet another poke-fight. 12. Driders. Once again, rhinos. I don't have to win, I just have to get through. Keep the rod in reserve in case I miss any reflex saves and I need that elephant to protect me, or a faerie fire to outline the driders. Going into this, I said, "This guy is going to die over and over again." I was pleasantly wrong, but that's only because I made this corner-case setup for him. Yes, it's cheezy. He's overpowered with three bags of tricks and a rod of wonder, but that's half his wealth. How many characters actually WANT those crazy little items? Darned useful for a lorchaser, though, especially the elephant with his crazy-high grapple. The lorechaser routinely uses his most expensive items (the broom, his bags of summoning, and the rod) the most of any item, so he gets his value out of his magic items. You will notice that I spent nothing on his armor as his critters ARE his defense. |
| shadow mage08-03-06, 01:05 PM | Oops, didn't see the thread got moved. Moving the post accordingly. -Shadow Mage |
| RadicalTaoist08-03-06, 03:55 PM | A question: how is this supposed to measure the effectiveness of focused support classes? Take the Society Mind, for example. It won't stand a chance in hell against most of those encounters alone. Does that necessarily make it a weak and useless class? |
| SeptimusMagistos08-03-06, 04:32 PM | A question: how is this supposed to measure the effectiveness of focused support classes? Take the Society Mind, for example. It won't stand a chance in hell against most of those encounters alone. Does that necessarily make it a weak and useless class? Nah. It just means that it's a support class. This isn't as much "Measuring Effectiveness" as "Measuring ability to survive a life-or-death situation all alone." |
| Damon_Caskey08-03-06, 04:34 PM | The contest is multi-tiered and will include other problems to deal with other then battle encounters. The gauntlet style battle royal is only the first round. Effectiveness comes in many forms besides from fighting. Aside from this, no one says you can’t bypass the issues or deal with them using alternate means. In the core class version of this contest, a paladin bypassed a good 1/3 of the encounters using diplomacy alone. If nothing else, you could hire a cohort and use your support abilities on him. I could go on, but there is no reason to. The contest has been moved anyway so this thread is effectively dead. Ultimately, if you really don’t like it that much then I would suggest you move on. No one is holding a gun to your head making you participate. DC |