Post/Author/DateTime	Post
bigevill 09-01-07, 10:14 AM	is there a sanctioned alternate class feature that allows this? If you could just tell me the book it is in.....
Einvaldurinn_mikli 09-01-07, 10:33 AM	There are two feats. Kung fu Genius(some issue of Dragon) and Carmendine Monk(Champions of Valor).
bigevill 09-01-07, 10:38 AM	thanks.
bigevill 09-01-07, 10:43 AM	is there a ruling on wether taking those feats allows you to get your INT from your monk levels and still get your WIS from sword sage levels? where would the offical ruling be.....
Zavia 09-01-07, 10:48 AM	i remember reading somewhere u cant. both of them gain un-named bonus to ac via wisdom. not int.
bigevill 09-01-07, 10:49 AM	but if you took the feat then one would be a bonus from INT not wis.....
Einvaldurinn_mikli 09-01-07, 10:52 AM	but if you took the feat then one would be a bonus from INT not wis..... Nope. One works when unarmored, the other when wearing light armor. Won't work.
bigevill 09-01-07, 10:53 AM	ok, that makes no sense at all. The sword sage one works with light or no armor, and that makes no difference to wether they work together or not. Obviously if I am wondering if they work together I know that I cant wear armor and get the monk one.;)
Einvaldurinn_mikli 09-01-07, 11:01 AM	ok, that makes no sense at all. The sword sage one works with light or no armor, and that makes no difference to wether they work together or not. Obviously if I am wondering if they work together I know that I cant wear armor and get the monk one.;) No, the Swordsage one only works in Light armor. Read the ability.
bigevill 09-01-07, 11:06 AM	that is about the dumbest thing I have ever read in a D&D book. My DM says to disregard it, becuase it is so stupid.
Einvaldurinn_mikli 09-01-07, 11:08 AM	that is about the dumbest thing I have ever read in a D&D book. My DM says to disregard it, becuase it is so stupid. Well, then he's houseruling.
bigevill 09-01-07, 11:09 AM	tell me how that ruling makes sense?
Einvaldurinn_mikli 09-01-07, 11:14 AM	tell me how that ruling makes sense? How what ruling makes sense? The fact that it only works in Light armor? Ok, you tell me how it makes sense that you can take the same training and apply it twice to your AC. (Monk bonus to AC and Swordsage bonus to AC. Same name, same ability)
bigevill 09-01-07, 11:18 AM	I am not saying that the same training should apply twice. I never ever asked to get my wisdom bonus twice. I asked to get my INT bonus as a result of taking a feat that states you can use yoru INT instead of wisdom, obviously reflecting in the feat that monks with that feat rely more on thier knowledge of combat and less on intuitive feelings to help them dodge blows.
dman11235 09-01-07, 01:08 PM	They fixed that wording on the swordsage in the FAQ. It works in light OR no armor. But you still can't get both, as they are still the same ability. If you take Kung Fu Genius, then it is the ability "AC bonus" based on int. The swordsage is "AC bonus" based on wisdom. Thus, they would not stack and you would choose one. I wouldn't have too much trouble letting you get both, however, as you would then need to keep up every stat except maybe cha., and the MAD would kill you. I might also, however, rule that you get int to AC from both of them with that one feat, thus making them both based on int instead of wis. This would be done as most of the time, you don't do things by both percieving and being logical. And dexterous, strong, etc. It's usually one or the other.
bigevill 09-01-07, 01:13 PM	I beleive the feat says it is for monks only. Also this is a high powered game. started at level 6 and we are now level 21 after several years. I am half celestial and all of my stats are now 20+ except CHA which is 18....
dman11235 09-01-07, 01:52 PM	Yeah, you should be good enough already You don't need that boost. Just become a saint. That DOES stack with the monk AC. BTW, why are you monk/swordsage? They don't mix too well.
bigevill 09-01-07, 01:55 PM	couple of reasons: took the sword sage to get into Jade Pheonix mage as it goes pretty well with my first 15 levels which were all duskblade. Took the monk to get some added defensive powers like deflect arows, improved grapple, better saves and evasion. Two level dip in each of the classes.
bigevill 09-01-07, 01:59 PM	sorry for the double post: as far as being good enough I just got waxed by a guy who power attacked for 20 and did 100 points of damage on each hit. I need to get my AC up.
kdyal 09-01-07, 07:24 PM	If you take Kung Fu Genius, then it is the ability "AC bonus" based on int. The swordsage is "AC bonus" based on wisdom. Thus, they would not stack and you would choose one. Actually, "AC bonus" in both cases is untyped - why on earth would they not stack? RAW does not allow bonuses of the same TYPE (untyped is not a type, it has no type) to stack (with few exceptions), but it does allow multiple bonuses to an attribute.
dman11235 09-02-07, 12:01 AM	Also RAW states that the same effect does not stack, and the AC bonuses are the same thing, even though they use a different stat. They are the same ability, with a different bonus. Two bards using inspire courage at +2 and +4 do not stack for two reasons. One, they are both moral, and two (the overlooked one) they are the same thing. The same ability, effect, everything, except amount of bonus. I do not think that RAW is the way to go here, though. I know that I would allow them to stack. If you want to punish your character with even more MAD, go right ahead. Oh my gosh. What are your stats?!?! You need every single stat for that build! Duskblades are cha based, right?
GawainBS 09-02-07, 09:05 AM	Duskblades are INT based.
bigevill 09-02-07, 09:59 AM	OK, with my race, magic items, heroic path from midnight, half celestial template, and something similar to favored of mystra my stats look like this: STR 28, INT 24, WIS 20, DEX 21, CON 36, CHA 18
dman11235 09-02-07, 01:37 PM	Okay, you don't need cha. But that's it. My advice would be just the duskblade, actually. You don't really need monk with that build, and you really don't need swordsage. Considering that the duskblade levels will far outshine those swordsage ones. You might take one level for the stance (pick a good one!) and the shadow hand feat that lets you add dex as well as str to damage. If you do take monk levels, take the kung fu genius for the int. I say it's up to your DM on the int and wisdom thing. I would allow it, but your DM might not (try to become a saint with that build, and take VoP. At epic levels that feat becomes insane!)
bigevill 09-02-07, 05:16 PM	The character is made and playing already for years. I cannot go back on what I did already. His levels look like this: duskblade 15, monk 2, sword sage 2, warblade 1, and JadePhoenix mage 1. I took practiced spell caster so my caster level is still 19. I am not missing much from not taking the last 5 levels of duskblade. I have taken manuvers that focus on defense and mobility since I didnt have any feats or spells that do much there. It has made me very vesitile.
risner 09-03-07, 03:32 PM	is there a ruling on wether taking those feats allows you to get your INT from your monk levels and still get your WIS from sword sage levels? where would the offical ruling be..... They are both called "Armour Bonus" and absolutely would not stack in any way. So you would have INT to AC from Monk and WIS to AC from Swordsage, pick the highest total bonus from each and add that to your AC. Actually, "AC bonus" in both cases is untyped - why on earth would they not stack? RAW does not allow bonuses of the same TYPE (untyped is not a type, it has no type) to stack (with few exceptions), but it does allow multiple bonuses to an attribute. How long have you played D&D to have made it this long without learning basic stacking rules of D&D? Things don't stack that come from the same source. Monk and Swordsage Armour Bonus ability is the same source.