Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Salla 10-13-05, 01:02 PM	In Complete Divine, there's an alternate method of Turning Undead that simply deals damage rather than requiring consulting tables etc. I rather like this idea because it synchs up with the way almost every other character deals with undead and is a lot simpler. However, I have a player interested in the Radiant Servant of Pelor (well, Dol Arrah ... Eberron game and all), and that means he has to have the Sun domain (and the Healing domain if he wants to make best use of it, but that's another issue). Anyway, the Sun domain power lets you perform a greater turning, where any undead, under a normal turning, that would be turned are instead destroyed. How do I make that work with the alternate Turning Method?
wonlee76 10-13-05, 01:38 PM	My suggestion would be that the Greater Turning ability from the Sun Domain would cause a Save or die situation. Make the save, take 1/2 damage as per the CD alternate turning rules. Fail the save, die.
Crimson Innocence 10-13-05, 01:44 PM	first off, talk it over with your DM, if you can agree there, there is no issue... but since I get a sneaky feeling that you tried that route... here are my two suggestions: Normal Turn Undead=damage, Greater Turn Undead= turn check now, This is a decent idea, but it could be a little confusing to work with. you would have to know and understand both rules pretty well (I don't think that should be a big issue) and make it very clear when you are normal turning and not-normal turning. other wise: Normal Turn Undead Hurts, Greater Turn Undead SaveOrDie the normal turn undead works with damage, the greater turn undead simply slaughters them outright, I would say either Will save (DC of cleric level+chr) or if your DM decides it's not to horribly over powered, Fortitude save. Undead have shockingly little resistance to fortitdue saves, so be careful...
Salla 10-13-05, 04:21 PM	first off, talk it over with your DM, if you can agree there, there is no issue... but since I get a sneaky feeling that you tried that route... here are my two suggestions: Normal Turn Undead=damage, Greater Turn Undead= turn check now, This is a decent idea, but it could be a little confusing to work with. you would have to know and understand both rules pretty well (I don't think that should be a big issue) and make it very clear when you are normal turning and not-normal turning. other wise: Normal Turn Undead Hurts, Greater Turn Undead SaveOrDie the normal turn undead works with damage, the greater turn undead simply slaughters them outright, I would say either Will save (DC of cleric level+chr) or if your DM decides it's not to horribly over powered, Fortitude save. Undead have shockingly little resistance to fortitdue saves, so be careful... Actually, I am the DM ... I just have no idea how to make it work. Save or Die (er, Die Again) seems to make a degree of sense, though. Good ideas.
Lord Schpungus 10-13-05, 07:21 PM	My thought was to double dice of damage and save dc, but that's basically an autokill. Save or Die with a substantial bonus to DC should work.
wonlee76 10-14-05, 12:28 AM	Actually, the one danger to the CD rule is the way the DC's on it scales up. It scales up ridiculously fast. I actually modified the save DC to be 10+1/2 turning level+Charisma modifier instead of DC 10+turning level+ charisma. The later formula is a formula that I almost never see for determining any kind of save DC and that was why I reverted to the more "traditional" or "common" 10+1/2 HD formula (or in this case turning level since some cleric prestige classes does not improve your turning ability). If going the save or die route (save for 1/2 damage, failed save = death), I might be more tempted to calculate the save DC to be 10+1/2 HD instead of 10+HD for the greater turning ability. At level 20, a cleric would have a DC of 30+Charisma modifier. Seems kind of cheap that the cleric would have more then a 50% chance of destroying a level 20 lich wizard. Compared to DC 20+charisma modifier, lich has under a 50% chance of being destroyed.