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TrueExodite 02-25-04, 08:07 PM

After reading about UA's level check turning option I started thinking about what I like, and don't like, about the current turning system. Can't say that I remember the 2e rules but the turning rules feel archaic and mesh badly with the general 3e rules. On top of that I feel that turning is extremely weak. Not that there is much wrong with the design, save being unneccessary complex, but undead monsters are usually designed with either far too many HD for their CR or an excessive Turn Resistance or both. Intentional or not this means that to even be an even remotly useful turn machine a Cleric, or Paladin, have to boost their Charisma as high as humanly possible as well as take Improved Turning and purchase/create both a Phylactery of Undead Turning and a suit of Sacred armor. Or at least that's what it feels like. For example you'd have to be an 8th level Cleric to destroy a CR 1 zombie... The level check turning variant in UA works out rougly the same in effect, or so I gather, but the mechanic seems far better. My thought is to further improve upon this system by making turning a regular resisted Will save by the undead in queastion. My thought is this: Will save DC 10 + 1/2 class levels that add to turning + Charisma modifier + misc. The undead creature in question adds their Turn Resistence as a bonus to the save roll. This seems to work out roughly the same in power, going by some quick glances in the MM and equally quick calculations, but feels more integrated into the general d20 mechanics. Some changes have to be made to accomodate for the change though: Turning Damage This is completely removed, undead within the normal 60ft range as well as your line of effect all roll their saves. This means that you could potentially affect more undead with a single turning. Glory domain power This changes to a flat bonus to the DC of your turn attempts, probably +1 to allow Ability Focus (Turn Undead) to be stronger though I'm in no way set in stone about that. Destroying Undead Undead with half, or less, than the turning Cleric's number of turning levels are destroyed on a failed save. I might consider making this a static number of levels lower, I haven't decided if or how many yet though. Input appreciated. Dispel Turning This requires no check, I'm torn between either making it an automatic success or requiring the dispelling Cleric to be of either equal or higher turning level. Input appreciated. Bolster Turning This should add a static bonus to saves vs. turning, probably +2. Might consider making it based on the turning level of the bolstering Cleric but it seems needlessly complicated to do so. Consecrate/Desecrate, Hallow/Unhallow These spells would add either a bonus or penalty to the turning save for affected undead, depending on the circumstances. Improved Turning This feat will probably be stricken and simply replaced with Ability Focus (Turn Undead). Or will it? Under this system these two feats would work differently, Improved Turning would slightly add to your turn DC but allow you to destroy greater undead as well while Ability Focus (Turn Undead) simply adds 2 to your DC. I might change the feat to a more Spell Penetration-like effect, "add 2 to your effective turning level when deciding how powerful undead you can destroy with a turn attempt". Perhaps I'd add a Greater Turning feat that adds another 2 alog the same line. Once again input is appreciated. Since the number have been cut back somewhat I suppose the Phylactery of Undead Turning and Sacred armor could be cut back on the bonus, perhaps to +2 and +1 respectivly. This number would then be added to the turn DC and not the effective turning level of the character. Any thoughts? I'm not looking for criticism of the general idea as I'm quite enthusiastic about that, I'm looking for help balancing the system and finding holes I might have overlooked. This system will make you able to turn more undead as the HD cap is removed, that's intentional. As it is turning is quie suboptimal, even when extremely specialized, compared to just sling off a Searing Light spell, and I intend to change that. Any help appreciated!