Alternate weapon samurai part two: Respond. Please. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alternate weapon samurai part two: Respond. Please. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TyraaloftheFist
01-09-05, 12:26 AM I'm starting a new thread to hold these because I want opinions, and I kept unintentionally going against the CoC. Irritating.

Alternate Samurai types: Zanbato wielding and daikatana wielding.

Note that the Zanbato may or not be balanced. I have seen several varieties, but they usually used 2d12 or 2d10 as the damage amount. I based this zanbato on a fullblade, and thus it deals 2d8 points of damage and requires extra feats to use most effectively, and I know that a first-level fighter could be running around with one of these, and so I give attack and AC penalties. As an optional thing, you could also add that you get one less attack per round, losing your lowest BAB attack if more than one attack is available. The zanbato costs more to deter powergamers who just want 2d8 damage against everything within 10 feet of the character. Should the price be lowered? Daikatanas cost as much as they do because they are, basically, fullblades with multiple settings for different situations. Should it cost more?

Zanbato: 2d8, 20/x2, Reach and can be used on adjacent opponents(see below), requires Monkey Grip AND Exotic Weapon Proficiency(Zanbato) to use effectively.

If you only have EWP(Zanbato), then you take -2 on all attack rolls due to the weapon actually being mounted on a haft and with a blade long enough to be bigger than most humans, and may only attack foes 10 feet away.
If you have both Monkey Grip and EWP(Zanbato), then you may attack foes closer than 10 feet away and take no attack penalty.
However, no matter whether you have both EWP(Zanbato) and Monkey Grip, or only EWP(Zanbato), you take a -1 on attack rolls due to the massive size of the weapon, and take a -1 penalty to AC because it is really hard to recover from swinging this really big, sharpened popsicle.

Weight: 20 lbs, Cost: 125 gp.

Zanbato Samurai: As Samurai from Complete Warrior, except as follows

At 1st level, instead of Daisho Proficiency, the Zanbato Samurai gains EWP(Zanbato) and still has to take Monkey Grip to use it properly.

At 2nd level, instead of Two Swords As One, the Zanbato Samurai gains Cleave(And maybe Power Attack if you think it would be balanced).

At 11th level, instead of Improved Two Swords As One, the Zanbato Samurai gains Great Cleave(And maybe Sweeping Strike, see below)

At 16th level, instead of Greater Two Swords As One, the Zanbato Samurai gains Supreme Cleave{You may take a 5 foot step between cleave attempts. You may only make two 5-foot steps per round when using this feat, and one of them is only usable between cleaves.}(And nothing else. Unless you want to add something.)

Daikatana: EITHER 2d6,18-20/x2 OR 2d8,19-20/x2 OR 2d8,20/x3. The variations reflect different ways of wielding. Respectively, the wielding styles are the Maximum Skill technique, Skillful Slashing technique, and Devastator technique. The technique may be changed as a swift action once per round that does not provoke an attack of opportunity.

I do not mean to imply that the Devastator style requires less skill to use than Maximum Skill, it just means that you focus on pulling the daikatana through the wound, using the curve of the blade to cut deeper when used properly, while the Devastator style is more of a brutal, chop-and-hack style that uses the curve of the blade to simply plant as much sword as possible as far as possible through the opponent. Skillful Slashing is characterized by using the curve to combine the damage of the Devastator style with the cutting technique of the Maximum Skill Style.

Weight: 13 lbs, Cost: 100 gp.

Daikatana Samurai: As Samurai from Complete Warrior, except as follows: (Does anybody have any ability ideas? Anybody?)

At 1st level, the Daikatana Samurai gains EWP(Daikatana) instead of Daisho Proficiency.

At 2nd level, instead of Two Swords As One, the Daikatana Samurai gains...

At 11th level, instead of Improved Two Swords As One, the Daikatana Samurai gains...

At 16th level, instead of Greater Two Swords As One, the Daikatana Samurai gains...
Willie the Duck
01-09-05, 03:50 AM I'm starting a new thread to hold these because I want opinions, and I kept unintentionally going against the CoC. Irritating.

Yeah, don't you hate it when the moderators enforce the rules you've proclaimed by registering to have read and understood? That just sucks.

The zanbato costs more to deter powergamers who just want 2d8 damage against everything within 10 feet of the character. Should the price be lowered? Daikatanas cost as much as they do because they are, basically, fullblades with multiple settings for different situations. Should it cost more?

Cost is a poor mechanism for controlling weapon power. at upper levels, the cost of a weapon is going to be a drop in the bucket versus enchantments and exotic material expenditures.

Zanbato: 2d8, 20/x2, Reach and can be used on adjacent opponents(see below), requires Monkey Grip AND Exotic Weapon Proficiency(Zanbato) to use effectively.

The spiked chain requires one feat to weild properly, and only does 2d4. Adding Monkey grip should shift it to 2d6. This weapon doesn't get the trip and disarm benifits, of course, but are those comperable to an additional avg. 2 damage per round? Not in most builds that would use this weapon.

End result analysis: you're making a tremendously complicated system that opens itself up to all sorts of bizaare interpretations when existing examples of "It's a greatsword, only more deadly and requires an EWP" already exist. If you want to make a samurai around that, do so, and replace the appropriate PrC abilites, but don't drag your players through this rule nightmare.
TyraaloftheFist
01-09-05, 11:19 AM Well, actually, I didn't mean that it was irritating that they enforced the rules, its just irritating that they closed the thread.

The high price of the zanbato is supposed to keep LOW-LEVEL (level 1 before they start running around and earning money) characters away from it, and it's basically a longer-bladed fullblade on a stick. I know that it might be complicated, but it just popped into my head and I wanted to see what everybody else thought. And I don't have any players, I have a character concept for a game that one of my friends was supposed to be starting. If you think that was a rules nightmare, you should see what I was trying to say.

Suggestions would be kind of useful instead of mostly criticism. I know there is at least one large greatsword, but I like really big two-handed weapons.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TyraaloftheFist 01-09-05, 12:26 AM	I'm starting a new thread to hold these because I want opinions, and I kept unintentionally going against the CoC. Irritating. Alternate Samurai types: Zanbato wielding and daikatana wielding. Note that the Zanbato may or not be balanced. I have seen several varieties, but they usually used 2d12 or 2d10 as the damage amount. I based this zanbato on a fullblade, and thus it deals 2d8 points of damage and requires extra feats to use most effectively, and I know that a first-level fighter could be running around with one of these, and so I give attack and AC penalties. As an optional thing, you could also add that you get one less attack per round, losing your lowest BAB attack if more than one attack is available. The zanbato costs more to deter powergamers who just want 2d8 damage against everything within 10 feet of the character. Should the price be lowered? Daikatanas cost as much as they do because they are, basically, fullblades with multiple settings for different situations. Should it cost more? Zanbato: 2d8, 20/x2, Reach and can be used on adjacent opponents(see below), requires Monkey Grip AND Exotic Weapon Proficiency(Zanbato) to use effectively. If you only have EWP(Zanbato), then you take -2 on all attack rolls due to the weapon actually being mounted on a haft and with a blade long enough to be bigger than most humans, and may only attack foes 10 feet away. If you have both Monkey Grip and EWP(Zanbato), then you may attack foes closer than 10 feet away and take no attack penalty. However, no matter whether you have both EWP(Zanbato) and Monkey Grip, or only EWP(Zanbato), you take a -1 on attack rolls due to the massive size of the weapon, and take a -1 penalty to AC because it is really hard to recover from swinging this really big, sharpened popsicle. Weight: 20 lbs, Cost: 125 gp. Zanbato Samurai: As Samurai from Complete Warrior, except as follows At 1st level, instead of Daisho Proficiency, the Zanbato Samurai gains EWP(Zanbato) and still has to take Monkey Grip to use it properly. At 2nd level, instead of Two Swords As One, the Zanbato Samurai gains Cleave(And maybe Power Attack if you think it would be balanced). At 11th level, instead of Improved Two Swords As One, the Zanbato Samurai gains Great Cleave(And maybe Sweeping Strike, see below) At 16th level, instead of Greater Two Swords As One, the Zanbato Samurai gains Supreme Cleave{You may take a 5 foot step between cleave attempts. You may only make two 5-foot steps per round when using this feat, and one of them is only usable between cleaves.}(And nothing else. Unless you want to add something.) Daikatana: EITHER 2d6,18-20/x2 OR 2d8,19-20/x2 OR 2d8,20/x3. The variations reflect different ways of wielding. Respectively, the wielding styles are the Maximum Skill technique, Skillful Slashing technique, and Devastator technique. The technique may be changed as a swift action once per round that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. I do not mean to imply that the Devastator style requires less skill to use than Maximum Skill, it just means that you focus on pulling the daikatana through the wound, using the curve of the blade to cut deeper when used properly, while the Devastator style is more of a brutal, chop-and-hack style that uses the curve of the blade to simply plant as much sword as possible as far as possible through the opponent. Skillful Slashing is characterized by using the curve to combine the damage of the Devastator style with the cutting technique of the Maximum Skill Style. Weight: 13 lbs, Cost: 100 gp. Daikatana Samurai: As Samurai from Complete Warrior, except as follows: (Does anybody have any ability ideas? Anybody?) At 1st level, the Daikatana Samurai gains EWP(Daikatana) instead of Daisho Proficiency. At 2nd level, instead of Two Swords As One, the Daikatana Samurai gains... At 11th level, instead of Improved Two Swords As One, the Daikatana Samurai gains... At 16th level, instead of Greater Two Swords As One, the Daikatana Samurai gains...
Willie the Duck 01-09-05, 03:50 AM	I'm starting a new thread to hold these because I want opinions, and I kept unintentionally going against the CoC. Irritating. Yeah, don't you hate it when the moderators enforce the rules you've proclaimed by registering to have read and understood? That just sucks. The zanbato costs more to deter powergamers who just want 2d8 damage against everything within 10 feet of the character. Should the price be lowered? Daikatanas cost as much as they do because they are, basically, fullblades with multiple settings for different situations. Should it cost more? Cost is a poor mechanism for controlling weapon power. at upper levels, the cost of a weapon is going to be a drop in the bucket versus enchantments and exotic material expenditures. Zanbato: 2d8, 20/x2, Reach and can be used on adjacent opponents(see below), requires Monkey Grip AND Exotic Weapon Proficiency(Zanbato) to use effectively. The spiked chain requires one feat to weild properly, and only does 2d4. Adding Monkey grip should shift it to 2d6. This weapon doesn't get the trip and disarm benifits, of course, but are those comperable to an additional avg. 2 damage per round? Not in most builds that would use this weapon. End result analysis: you're making a tremendously complicated system that opens itself up to all sorts of bizaare interpretations when existing examples of "It's a greatsword, only more deadly and requires an EWP" already exist. If you want to make a samurai around that, do so, and replace the appropriate PrC abilites, but don't drag your players through this rule nightmare.
TyraaloftheFist 01-09-05, 11:19 AM	Well, actually, I didn't mean that it was irritating that they enforced the rules, its just irritating that they closed the thread. The high price of the zanbato is supposed to keep LOW-LEVEL (level 1 before they start running around and earning money) characters away from it, and it's basically a longer-bladed fullblade on a stick. I know that it might be complicated, but it just popped into my head and I wanted to see what everybody else thought. And I don't have any players, I have a character concept for a game that one of my friends was supposed to be starting. If you think that was a rules nightmare, you should see what I was trying to say. Suggestions would be kind of useful instead of mostly criticism. I know there is at least one large greatsword, but I like really big two-handed weapons.