Alternate Wizard Class Feature [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alternate Wizard Class Feature [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Vandeus
03-04-08, 12:29 AM My friend and I were having a debate as to what was the best alternate class feature for Wizards. I said Immediate Magic - Abrupt Jaunt and he said (and I forget the name) some feature that lets you get rid of the worthless scribe scroll feat for Improved Initiative. I still like abrupt jaunt better but I had never heard of this alternate class feature.

So, I have a two part question.

1. Does anyone know the name and book the sub scribe scroll feature is in?

2. What do you think is the best alternate class feature for wizard?
Shadowhowler
03-04-08, 12:58 AM I've never heard of the one for replacing Scribe Scroll with the I.I. Feat.

However, I wouldn't like that feature. I have found the ability to make scrolls VERY usefull for most of my wizards.

I am a BIG fan of the Abrupt Jaunt Feature. It is only for Conjurers tho... not generalist wizards... but it is quite awesome and I have found VERY usefull.
Sinfire Titan
03-04-08, 01:01 AM Wizard

Some wizards trade their knowledge of magic and craft to improve their combat prowess.
Gain

Bonus feat list (as fighter; bonus feats gained at 1st level and every five levels as wizard).
Lose

Scribe Scroll, wizard bonus feat list.

That is the Wizard variant you are thinking of. And it isn't just Imp Init, it is any feat from the Fighter's list.
Vandeus
03-04-08, 01:16 AM That is the Wizard variant you are thinking of. And it isn't just Imp Init, it is any feat from the Fighter's list.

OK, I didn't think it was a alternated class feature. Where is Wizard Variant? Unearthed Arcana? Thanks
Shadowhowler
03-04-08, 01:30 AM Uh... yuk.

I'd much rather have free metamagic and item creation feats as a Wizard then Fighter Feats. I'd guess this alternate class feature is only useful to Wizards who intend to become Gish's.
Viktor_Von_Doom
03-04-08, 01:58 AM What book is Abrut Jaunt in?
Fabius Maximus
03-04-08, 07:00 AM What book is Abrut Jaunt in?
PHB II
Sinfire Titan
03-04-08, 09:00 AM Uh... yuk.

I'd much rather have free metamagic and item creation feats as a Wizard then Fighter Feats. I'd guess this alternate class feature is only useful to Wizards who intend to become Gish's.

What? People use that to get Improved Init and such over Scribe Scroll, then take Spontaneous Divinations or Domain Granted Power from Complete Champion or use another Unearthed Arcana variant to swap out the 5th level bonus feat. It is a good variant.
Mr_Teapot
03-04-08, 02:30 PM Uh... yuk.

I'd much rather have free metamagic and item creation feats as a Wizard then Fighter Feats. I'd guess this alternate class feature is only useful to Wizards who intend to become Gish's.

In most good wizard builds, you're trying to minimize your actual wizard levels and instead get a bunch of full caster progression PrCs. So you're not ever eaching wizard 5, much less wiz 10 or 15. You are instead a wizard 3 / Master Specialist 2 or 3 / some 10 level PrC / Archmage or something. So swapping one feat that you'll never get for another that you'll never get has no real impact.

Of course, I'm not convinced that swapping Scribe Scroll for Improved Initiative is a great idea. Scribe Scroll gives you every spell in your spell book castable spontaneously, and you never need to run out of spells for the day? And make your party Rogue's score in UMD actually useful? And you just spend a tiny amount of XP, which you quickly get back by being behind a level for one or two sessions? That's a good deal. You can pick up Improved Init. with a standard level feat or a flaw or your human feat or something.
Sinfire Titan
03-04-08, 02:50 PM In most good wizard builds, you're trying to minimize your actual wizard levels and instead get a bunch of full caster progression PrCs. So you're not ever eaching wizard 5, much less wiz 10 or 15. You are instead a wizard 3 / Master Specialist 2 or 3 / some 10 level PrC / Archmage or something. So swapping one feat that you'll never get for another that you'll never get has no real impact.

Of course, I'm not convinced that swapping Scribe Scroll for Improved Initiative is a great idea. Scribe Scroll gives you every spell in your spell book castable spontaneously, and you never need to run out of spells for the day? And make your party Rogue's score in UMD actually useful? And you just spend a tiny amount of XP, which you quickly get back by being behind a level for one or two sessions? That's a good deal. You can pick up Improved Init. with a standard level feat or a flaw or your human feat or something.

The XP and GP add up a lot faster than people think it does. Trust me, you are better off with Uncanny Forethought/Spontaneous Divinations+Versatile Spellcaster than using scrolls. Scrolls are a good way to make up for what you lack, but never rely on them. They aren't cost effective. Wands and Staves and Runestaves are usually more pricey, but more effective in the long run.

And if you ask me for proof, I play an Artificer. 90% of the time, Wands>>>Scrolls. Why? Because a single use item is way more expensive than you realize in the long run.
LSMFT
03-04-08, 03:45 PM In most good wizard builds, you're trying to minimize your actual wizard levels and instead get a bunch of full caster progression PrCs. So you're not ever eaching wizard 5, much less wiz 10 or 15. You are instead a wizard 3 / Master Specialist 2 or 3 / some 10 level PrC / Archmage or something. So swapping one feat that you'll never get for another that you'll never get has no real impact. Master Specialist is sort of exceptional in your ability to enter it prior to level 6. And, if you aren't going to get at least some Minor Esoterica out of it, not worth it very often. That bonus feat at level 5 is pretty nice.

Of course, I'm not convinced that swapping Scribe Scroll for Improved Initiative is a great idea. Neither am I. They are both great feats, and you don't actually need to choose between them, but, I think wizards really need their scrolls.

Scrolls are a good way to make up for what you lack, but never rely on them. They aren't cost effective. Wands and Staves and Runestaves are usually more pricey, but more effective in the long run.

And if you ask me for proof, I play an Artificer. 90% of the time, Wands>>>Scrolls. Why? Because a single use item is way more expensive than you realize in the long run.I think Artificers and wizards use items like scrolls/wands very diferently. For a wizard, scrolls are like a back up. You have all these spells in your book, but you can only have ready a fraction of them. Scrolls let you have those hand spells that you might really really need, but not often enough to prepare.

Wands are certainly more cost effective than scrolls, but only if I plan on casting the spell rather often. (In which case, why did I not just prepare it?)

Also: I can use scribe scroll at level one. I will be using scribe scroll for spells over 4th level.
Sinfire Titan
03-04-08, 03:51 PM I think Artificers and wizards use items like scrolls/wands very diferently. For a wizard, scrolls are like a back up. You have all these spells in your book, but you can only have ready a fraction of them. Scrolls let you have those hand spells that you might really really need, but not often enough to prepare.

Wands are certainly more cost effective than scrolls, but only if I plan on casting the spell rather often. (In which case, why did I not just prepare it?)

Also: I can use scribe scroll at level one. I will be using scribe scroll for spells over 4th level.

Pssh! High level spells are for wimps who don't know how to blow up a planet with Magic Missile.
LSMFT
03-04-08, 03:55 PM I guess I would fall into that category. :)
LoneFlame
03-04-08, 11:35 PM The Specialist Wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm) variants are a good way for a Specialist Wizard to lose Scribe Scroll

As mentioned before, the Fighter Feat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard)varia nt also works.

Outside of those, I can't think of anything(though, I can think of a few good familiar sub-out variants)
Sinfire Titan
03-04-08, 11:53 PM The Specialist Wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm) variants are a good way for a Specialist Wizard to lose Scribe Scroll

As mentioned before, the Fighter Feat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard)varia nt also works.

Outside of those, I can't think of anything(though, I can think of a few good familiar sub-out variants)

Focused Specialist (CM) is very good. If you are a Conjurer/Transmuter and ban the right schools.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Vandeus 03-04-08, 12:29 AM	My friend and I were having a debate as to what was the best alternate class feature for Wizards. I said Immediate Magic - Abrupt Jaunt and he said (and I forget the name) some feature that lets you get rid of the worthless scribe scroll feat for Improved Initiative. I still like abrupt jaunt better but I had never heard of this alternate class feature. So, I have a two part question. 1. Does anyone know the name and book the sub scribe scroll feature is in? 2. What do you think is the best alternate class feature for wizard?
Shadowhowler 03-04-08, 12:58 AM	I've never heard of the one for replacing Scribe Scroll with the I.I. Feat. However, I wouldn't like that feature. I have found the ability to make scrolls VERY usefull for most of my wizards. I am a BIG fan of the Abrupt Jaunt Feature. It is only for Conjurers tho... not generalist wizards... but it is quite awesome and I have found VERY usefull.
Sinfire Titan 03-04-08, 01:01 AM	Wizard Some wizards trade their knowledge of magic and craft to improve their combat prowess. Gain Bonus feat list (as fighter; bonus feats gained at 1st level and every five levels as wizard). Lose Scribe Scroll, wizard bonus feat list. That is the Wizard variant you are thinking of. And it isn't just Imp Init, it is any feat from the Fighter's list.
Vandeus 03-04-08, 01:16 AM	That is the Wizard variant you are thinking of. And it isn't just Imp Init, it is any feat from the Fighter's list. OK, I didn't think it was a alternated class feature. Where is Wizard Variant? Unearthed Arcana? Thanks
Shadowhowler 03-04-08, 01:30 AM	Uh... yuk. I'd much rather have free metamagic and item creation feats as a Wizard then Fighter Feats. I'd guess this alternate class feature is only useful to Wizards who intend to become Gish's.
Viktor_Von_Doom 03-04-08, 01:58 AM	What book is Abrut Jaunt in?
Fabius Maximus 03-04-08, 07:00 AM	What book is Abrut Jaunt in? PHB II
Sinfire Titan 03-04-08, 09:00 AM	Uh... yuk. I'd much rather have free metamagic and item creation feats as a Wizard then Fighter Feats. I'd guess this alternate class feature is only useful to Wizards who intend to become Gish's. What? People use that to get Improved Init and such over Scribe Scroll, then take Spontaneous Divinations or Domain Granted Power from Complete Champion or use another Unearthed Arcana variant to swap out the 5th level bonus feat. It is a good variant.
Mr_Teapot 03-04-08, 02:30 PM	Uh... yuk. I'd much rather have free metamagic and item creation feats as a Wizard then Fighter Feats. I'd guess this alternate class feature is only useful to Wizards who intend to become Gish's. In most good wizard builds, you're trying to minimize your actual wizard levels and instead get a bunch of full caster progression PrCs. So you're not ever eaching wizard 5, much less wiz 10 or 15. You are instead a wizard 3 / Master Specialist 2 or 3 / some 10 level PrC / Archmage or something. So swapping one feat that you'll never get for another that you'll never get has no real impact. Of course, I'm not convinced that swapping Scribe Scroll for Improved Initiative is a great idea. Scribe Scroll gives you every spell in your spell book castable spontaneously, and you never need to run out of spells for the day? And make your party Rogue's score in UMD actually useful? And you just spend a tiny amount of XP, which you quickly get back by being behind a level for one or two sessions? That's a good deal. You can pick up Improved Init. with a standard level feat or a flaw or your human feat or something.
Sinfire Titan 03-04-08, 02:50 PM	In most good wizard builds, you're trying to minimize your actual wizard levels and instead get a bunch of full caster progression PrCs. So you're not ever eaching wizard 5, much less wiz 10 or 15. You are instead a wizard 3 / Master Specialist 2 or 3 / some 10 level PrC / Archmage or something. So swapping one feat that you'll never get for another that you'll never get has no real impact. Of course, I'm not convinced that swapping Scribe Scroll for Improved Initiative is a great idea. Scribe Scroll gives you every spell in your spell book castable spontaneously, and you never need to run out of spells for the day? And make your party Rogue's score in UMD actually useful? And you just spend a tiny amount of XP, which you quickly get back by being behind a level for one or two sessions? That's a good deal. You can pick up Improved Init. with a standard level feat or a flaw or your human feat or something. The XP and GP add up a lot faster than people think it does. Trust me, you are better off with Uncanny Forethought/Spontaneous Divinations+Versatile Spellcaster than using scrolls. Scrolls are a good way to make up for what you lack, but never rely on them. They aren't cost effective. Wands and Staves and Runestaves are usually more pricey, but more effective in the long run. And if you ask me for proof, I play an Artificer. 90% of the time, Wands>>>Scrolls. Why? Because a single use item is way more expensive than you realize in the long run.
LSMFT 03-04-08, 03:45 PM	In most good wizard builds, you're trying to minimize your actual wizard levels and instead get a bunch of full caster progression PrCs. So you're not ever eaching wizard 5, much less wiz 10 or 15. You are instead a wizard 3 / Master Specialist 2 or 3 / some 10 level PrC / Archmage or something. So swapping one feat that you'll never get for another that you'll never get has no real impact. Master Specialist is sort of exceptional in your ability to enter it prior to level 6. And, if you aren't going to get at least some Minor Esoterica out of it, not worth it very often. That bonus feat at level 5 is pretty nice. Of course, I'm not convinced that swapping Scribe Scroll for Improved Initiative is a great idea. Neither am I. They are both great feats, and you don't actually need to choose between them, but, I think wizards really need their scrolls. Scrolls are a good way to make up for what you lack, but never rely on them. They aren't cost effective. Wands and Staves and Runestaves are usually more pricey, but more effective in the long run. And if you ask me for proof, I play an Artificer. 90% of the time, Wands>>>Scrolls. Why? Because a single use item is way more expensive than you realize in the long run.I think Artificers and wizards use items like scrolls/wands very diferently. For a wizard, scrolls are like a back up. You have all these spells in your book, but you can only have ready a fraction of them. Scrolls let you have those hand spells that you might really really need, but not often enough to prepare. Wands are certainly more cost effective than scrolls, but only if I plan on casting the spell rather often. (In which case, why did I not just prepare it?) Also: I can use scribe scroll at level one. I will be using scribe scroll for spells over 4th level.
Sinfire Titan 03-04-08, 03:51 PM	I think Artificers and wizards use items like scrolls/wands very diferently. For a wizard, scrolls are like a back up. You have all these spells in your book, but you can only have ready a fraction of them. Scrolls let you have those hand spells that you might really really need, but not often enough to prepare. Wands are certainly more cost effective than scrolls, but only if I plan on casting the spell rather often. (In which case, why did I not just prepare it?) Also: I can use scribe scroll at level one. I will be using scribe scroll for spells over 4th level. Pssh! High level spells are for wimps who don't know how to blow up a planet with Magic Missile.
LSMFT 03-04-08, 03:55 PM	I guess I would fall into that category. :)
LoneFlame 03-04-08, 11:35 PM	The Specialist Wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm) variants are a good way for a Specialist Wizard to lose Scribe Scroll As mentioned before, the Fighter Feat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard)varia nt also works. Outside of those, I can't think of anything(though, I can think of a few good familiar sub-out variants)
Sinfire Titan 03-04-08, 11:53 PM	The Specialist Wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm) variants are a good way for a Specialist Wizard to lose Scribe Scroll As mentioned before, the Fighter Feat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard)varia nt also works. Outside of those, I can't think of anything(though, I can think of a few good familiar sub-out variants) Focused Specialist (CM) is very good. If you are a Conjurer/Transmuter and ban the right schools.