Alternative Demonologist [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alternative Demonologist [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Crazy_DM
01-08-06, 09:11 AM Hej folks,

acoording to my last thread I want to create my own Demonologist PrC. As discussd in the last thread I have another feeling what it means to be a Demonologist.

Thus before just writing down some level progression I want to show my ideas.

First of all I like the Demonologist to continue the spell progression from the base class. If this means every level, every odd level or something different might be discussed later.

Second I do not like the original charm, dominate demon class feature. I my opinion the Demonologist sees the Demon as some sort of respected servant or even tutor.
So I would like to give him a bonus on skills depending on the alignment:
- bonus to diplomacy if the character is lawfull
- bluff if the character is chaotic
- half in both if the character is neutral
- in addition to all: bonus for sense motiv

Third I want the Demonologist to summon better demons. As prerequisits I woud like him to have Spell Focus (Conjuration) and Augment Summoning.
Thus as ongoing effect the Demonologist might give his summoned demon some special qualities like:
- increased duration
- DC of the spells or spell like abilities increased
- immun to dismissel
...something like that.

Fourth I would like the Demonologist to have some sort of Demon-Companion.
This Demon might function like a servant or even tutor. In game mechanics one might say that the demon must stand 5ft. near the Demonologist and spend an entire full-round action doing "support" with one of the following effects:
- the Demonologist might cast a spell on higher level
- the DC of a spell is increased
- the highter level for a metmagic feat is decreased
- the duration or range of a spell is increased

Fifth I would like him to have the ability get some sort of pact. I have seen that this is treated in a new book coming up.
On the other hand I think on the system of sacrifices in the BoVD.
The Demonologist creates some sort of Ritual and gains a bonus according to the preparation. Then he gets some supernatural abilites granted from a Demon for a period of time. On the other hand the demon wants something too - this might be reflected with getting a Flaw from the Unearthed Arcana for the same time.

These are my first ideas.
Any ideas, comments...?

Cheers, Crazy DM
xXx_AlchemY_xXx
01-08-06, 09:55 AM Excuse my lack of knowledge pertaining to Dungeons and Dragon jargon. But what the hell is a 'prc'?
Crazy_DM
01-08-06, 11:52 AM But what the hell is a 'prc'?

A Prestige Class ;)

Cheers, Crazy DM
Crazy_DM
01-10-06, 02:50 AM No further comments? :(
CzarGarrett
01-10-06, 09:01 AM So I take it that you don't like the Demonologist PrC out of BoVD?

The main problem I have with your idea is the 'respected tutor' type thing. I just cannot see this. Demons aren't going to be a respected tutor. They might teach you something, if you can force them into doing so.

Which makes Charm and Dominate Demon necessary.

The Demon companion thing- the Demonologist would probably force a weaker demon into servitude. Or take a weaker demon into service to protect it/hide it from a stronger one. A demon will not become a companion for altruistic reasons.

What I do like, however, is the Ritual stuff. I almost see it as summoning and binding a certain demon to you for X time. During such a duration, you gain limited abilities based on what the demon can do. Like if you bind an imp, then you can gain a minor bit of invisibility, but suffer a lessened base speed. Or if you can bind a Balor, you can shroud yourself in flames, but suffer double damage from holy weapons.
Crazy_DM
01-11-06, 11:05 AM So I take it that you don't like the Demonologist PrC out of BoVD?

I do not know if like is the right word - I just have another picture in my mind if I think about a Demonologist. :)

The main problem I have with your idea is the 'respected tutor' type thing. I just cannot see this. Demons aren't going to be a respected tutor. They might teach you something, if you can force them into doing so.

Which makes Charm and Dominate Demon necessary.

Yeah, this might be true, as Demons are realy chaotic beings. But as my Eberron-Campaign grows I try to leave the black-and-white thinking. Demons are beings as any other race and why not work with them somehow together.
I mean how would you feel if you are sitting in a tavern and suddenly you have been summened elswhere and forced by a demon to work for him. Would it not be very kind of him to just ask you ;)

A demon will not become a companion for altruistic reasons.

No, but a powerful spellcaster might prove himself as a powerful ally. :)

What I do like, however, is the Ritual stuff. I almost see it as summoning and binding a certain demon to you for X time. During such a duration, you gain limited abilities based on what the demon can do. Like if you bind an imp, then you can gain a minor bit of invisibility, but suffer a lessened base speed. Or if you can bind a Balor, you can shroud yourself in flames, but suffer double damage from holy weapons.

Thanks - I work on that :)

Cheers, Crazy DM
Puca
01-11-06, 12:42 PM I agree with you about the casting. The class is clearly a casting class, so asking people to jump ship to another to get its benefits is kind of silly to me.

Second I do not like the original charm, dominate demon class feature. I my opinion the Demonologist sees the Demon as some sort of respected servant or even tutor.
So I would like to give him a bonus on skills depending on the alignment:
- bonus to diplomacy if the character is lawfull
- bluff if the character is chaotic
- half in both if the character is neutral
- in addition to all: bonus for sense motivI dont particularly care for class mechanics that do different things for different people that way. Certainly there are other classes/PrCs that give “bundled bonuses” and you could do so here as well. I think that something like the Mindbenders bonus (to Bluff, Intimidate, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive) based on ½ class level would be good.

Third I want the Demonologist to summon better demons. As prerequisits I woud like him to have Spell Focus (Conjuration) and Augment Summoning.
Thus as ongoing effect the Demonologist might give his summoned demon some special qualities like:
- increased duration
- DC of the spells or spell like abilities increased
- immun to dismissel
...something like that.Dont they cast better summoning already? As I recall, they cast Summon Monster spells at one spell-level higher, i.e. casting Summon Monster V let you get a creature off of the list for SM VI.

Also, with their new (shite) spell progression, they were limited to (I think) sixth-level spells or something? If you kept the existing mechanic youd need a whole new list (assuming that this guy ever got level 9 spells.) This class feature was the one I like most about the PrC. Combined with Spell Focus (Conjuration) and Augment Summoning, though not necessarily as prereqs, and it is pretty good.

Something added, like an automatic Extend summonings wouldnt necessarily be out of line, and could easily be made balanced; anything can be made balanced when you take away caster levels.

Fourth I would like the Demonologist to have some sort of Demon-Companion.
This Demon might function like a servant or even tutor. In game mechanics one might say that the demon must stand 5ft. near the Demonologist and spend an entire full-round action doing "support" with one of the following effects:
- the Demonologist might cast a spell on higher level
- the DC of a spell is increased
- the highter level for a metmagic feat is decreased
- the duration or range of a spell is increasedHe already gets an Imp familiar. Thats nice.

The problem I have with a Demon Companion is that he will always have a demon following him around. Thats basically the Leadership feat +, and most demons can summon more demons….

How about the ability to use something like the Commune spell as a spell-like ability? Now hes capable of regular contact with a demon-lord or something? Maybe give the Demon the power to communicate with the Demonologist via Sending or something? The idea is that the caster gets access to powers though his connection to the demon, and the demon gets access to the caster, manipulating him to do the demons dirty work on this plane.

Fifth I would like him to have the ability get some sort of pact. I have seen that this is treated in a new book coming up.
On the other hand I think on the system of sacrifices in the BoVD.
The Demonologist creates some sort of Ritual and gains a bonus according to the preparation. Then he gets some supernatural abilites granted from a Demon for a period of time. On the other hand the demon wants something too - this might be reflected with getting a Flaw from the Unearthed Arcana for the same time.I dont know how the new pact stuff will be, but sacrifices to your bonded demon following the existing rules could be nice and evil, perhaps required every so often.

Heres another thought on summoning:

I cant remember where I read this, but the idea was a variant where every time you cast a Summon Monster X spell, the same creature came. A caster would have a relationship of sorts with the creature, and could even give the creature things that would return with the creature later, such as magic weapons or armor or what have you.

Giving the Demonologist the power to do that could be cool.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Crazy_DM 01-08-06, 09:11 AM	Hej folks, acoording to my last thread I want to create my own Demonologist PrC. As discussd in the last thread I have another feeling what it means to be a Demonologist. Thus before just writing down some level progression I want to show my ideas. First of all I like the Demonologist to continue the spell progression from the base class. If this means every level, every odd level or something different might be discussed later. Second I do not like the original charm, dominate demon class feature. I my opinion the Demonologist sees the Demon as some sort of respected servant or even tutor. So I would like to give him a bonus on skills depending on the alignment: - bonus to diplomacy if the character is lawfull - bluff if the character is chaotic - half in both if the character is neutral - in addition to all: bonus for sense motiv Third I want the Demonologist to summon better demons. As prerequisits I woud like him to have Spell Focus (Conjuration) and Augment Summoning. Thus as ongoing effect the Demonologist might give his summoned demon some special qualities like: - increased duration - DC of the spells or spell like abilities increased - immun to dismissel ...something like that. Fourth I would like the Demonologist to have some sort of Demon-Companion. This Demon might function like a servant or even tutor. In game mechanics one might say that the demon must stand 5ft. near the Demonologist and spend an entire full-round action doing "support" with one of the following effects: - the Demonologist might cast a spell on higher level - the DC of a spell is increased - the highter level for a metmagic feat is decreased - the duration or range of a spell is increased Fifth I would like him to have the ability get some sort of pact. I have seen that this is treated in a new book coming up. On the other hand I think on the system of sacrifices in the BoVD. The Demonologist creates some sort of Ritual and gains a bonus according to the preparation. Then he gets some supernatural abilites granted from a Demon for a period of time. On the other hand the demon wants something too - this might be reflected with getting a Flaw from the Unearthed Arcana for the same time. These are my first ideas. Any ideas, comments...? Cheers, Crazy DM
xXx_AlchemY_xXx 01-08-06, 09:55 AM	Excuse my lack of knowledge pertaining to Dungeons and Dragon jargon. But what the hell is a 'prc'?
Crazy_DM 01-08-06, 11:52 AM	But what the hell is a 'prc'? A Prestige Class ;) Cheers, Crazy DM
Crazy_DM 01-10-06, 02:50 AM	No further comments? :(
CzarGarrett 01-10-06, 09:01 AM	So I take it that you don't like the Demonologist PrC out of BoVD? The main problem I have with your idea is the 'respected tutor' type thing. I just cannot see this. Demons aren't going to be a respected tutor. They might teach you something, if you can force them into doing so. Which makes Charm and Dominate Demon necessary. The Demon companion thing- the Demonologist would probably force a weaker demon into servitude. Or take a weaker demon into service to protect it/hide it from a stronger one. A demon will not become a companion for altruistic reasons. What I do like, however, is the Ritual stuff. I almost see it as summoning and binding a certain demon to you for X time. During such a duration, you gain limited abilities based on what the demon can do. Like if you bind an imp, then you can gain a minor bit of invisibility, but suffer a lessened base speed. Or if you can bind a Balor, you can shroud yourself in flames, but suffer double damage from holy weapons.
Crazy_DM 01-11-06, 11:05 AM	So I take it that you don't like the Demonologist PrC out of BoVD? I do not know if like is the right word - I just have another picture in my mind if I think about a Demonologist. :) The main problem I have with your idea is the 'respected tutor' type thing. I just cannot see this. Demons aren't going to be a respected tutor. They might teach you something, if you can force them into doing so. Which makes Charm and Dominate Demon necessary. Yeah, this might be true, as Demons are realy chaotic beings. But as my Eberron-Campaign grows I try to leave the black-and-white thinking. Demons are beings as any other race and why not work with them somehow together. I mean how would you feel if you are sitting in a tavern and suddenly you have been summened elswhere and forced by a demon to work for him. Would it not be very kind of him to just ask you ;) A demon will not become a companion for altruistic reasons. No, but a powerful spellcaster might prove himself as a powerful ally. :) What I do like, however, is the Ritual stuff. I almost see it as summoning and binding a certain demon to you for X time. During such a duration, you gain limited abilities based on what the demon can do. Like if you bind an imp, then you can gain a minor bit of invisibility, but suffer a lessened base speed. Or if you can bind a Balor, you can shroud yourself in flames, but suffer double damage from holy weapons. Thanks - I work on that :) Cheers, Crazy DM
Puca 01-11-06, 12:42 PM	I agree with you about the casting. The class is clearly a casting class, so asking people to jump ship to another to get its benefits is kind of silly to me. Second I do not like the original charm, dominate demon class feature. I my opinion the Demonologist sees the Demon as some sort of respected servant or even tutor. So I would like to give him a bonus on skills depending on the alignment: - bonus to diplomacy if the character is lawfull - bluff if the character is chaotic - half in both if the character is neutral - in addition to all: bonus for sense motivI dont particularly care for class mechanics that do different things for different people that way. Certainly there are other classes/PrCs that give “bundled bonuses” and you could do so here as well. I think that something like the Mindbenders bonus (to Bluff, Intimidate, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive) based on ½ class level would be good. Third I want the Demonologist to summon better demons. As prerequisits I woud like him to have Spell Focus (Conjuration) and Augment Summoning. Thus as ongoing effect the Demonologist might give his summoned demon some special qualities like: - increased duration - DC of the spells or spell like abilities increased - immun to dismissel ...something like that.Dont they cast better summoning already? As I recall, they cast Summon Monster spells at one spell-level higher, i.e. casting Summon Monster V let you get a creature off of the list for SM VI. Also, with their new (shite) spell progression, they were limited to (I think) sixth-level spells or something? If you kept the existing mechanic youd need a whole new list (assuming that this guy ever got level 9 spells.) This class feature was the one I like most about the PrC. Combined with Spell Focus (Conjuration) and Augment Summoning, though not necessarily as prereqs, and it is pretty good. Something added, like an automatic Extend summonings wouldnt necessarily be out of line, and could easily be made balanced; anything can be made balanced when you take away caster levels. Fourth I would like the Demonologist to have some sort of Demon-Companion. This Demon might function like a servant or even tutor. In game mechanics one might say that the demon must stand 5ft. near the Demonologist and spend an entire full-round action doing "support" with one of the following effects: - the Demonologist might cast a spell on higher level - the DC of a spell is increased - the highter level for a metmagic feat is decreased - the duration or range of a spell is increasedHe already gets an Imp familiar. Thats nice. The problem I have with a Demon Companion is that he will always have a demon following him around. Thats basically the Leadership feat +, and most demons can summon more demons…. How about the ability to use something like the Commune spell as a spell-like ability? Now hes capable of regular contact with a demon-lord or something? Maybe give the Demon the power to communicate with the Demonologist via Sending or something? The idea is that the caster gets access to powers though his connection to the demon, and the demon gets access to the caster, manipulating him to do the demons dirty work on this plane. Fifth I would like him to have the ability get some sort of pact. I have seen that this is treated in a new book coming up. On the other hand I think on the system of sacrifices in the BoVD. The Demonologist creates some sort of Ritual and gains a bonus according to the preparation. Then he gets some supernatural abilites granted from a Demon for a period of time. On the other hand the demon wants something too - this might be reflected with getting a Flaw from the Unearthed Arcana for the same time.I dont know how the new pact stuff will be, but sacrifices to your bonded demon following the existing rules could be nice and evil, perhaps required every so often. Heres another thought on summoning: I cant remember where I read this, but the idea was a variant where every time you cast a Summon Monster X spell, the same creature came. A caster would have a relationship of sorts with the creature, and could even give the creature things that would return with the creature later, such as magic weapons or armor or what have you. Giving the Demonologist the power to do that could be cool.