Alternative Fighter Class? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alternative Fighter Class? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gemstone
12-23-06, 04:52 PM How unbalanced would the game become if we altered the fighter class so that it gained 1 bonus feat every level after 10th instead of 1 bonus feat every 2nd level.

On a second note, how would it also affect the game if you gave the fighter the weapon focus, weapon specailization and the greater variants thereof as soon as they could get them, for free? :)
theotherdraxen
12-23-06, 04:54 PM Still underpowered. Feats are just low-level abilities, and no matter how many you have, you still lack the capacity to compete at high levels. It's like having a million stubby fingers.
Szatany
12-23-06, 04:54 PM How unbalanced would the game become if we altered the fighter class so that it gained 1 bonus feat every level after 10th instead of 1 bonus feat every 2nd level.

On a second note, how would it also affect the game if you gave the fighter the weapon focus, weapon specailization and the greater variants thereof as soon as they could get them, for free? :)

None of those would make fighter too good so if you want to alter fighter in your games no one will suffer because of that (maybe except few monsters :) ).
maxxrox
12-23-06, 05:24 PM You have to realize that almost nobody takes Fighter all the way through. Most people use it to get to BAB +6 and then take a PrC. If you look at it, the Fighter is extremely underpowered compared to the other base classes pretty much as soon as you hit level 8, but that's an argument for another thread.
Gemstone
12-23-06, 06:03 PM You have to realize that almost nobody takes Fighter all the way through. Most people use it to get to BAB +6 and then take a PrC. If you look at it, the Fighter is extremely underpowered compared to the other base classes pretty much as soon as you hit level 8, but that's an argument for another thread.
yes, the very reason to give them an additional +10 bonus feats (and of course, expand their bonus feat list), so that more players choose to go fighter all the way :)

but thanks for the input
Repeekluos
12-23-06, 06:07 PM Giving a fighter more feats, wont really help in terms of power. Feats are in general set at a very specific power level. If you really want to improve the fighter, improve the tools he has to work with. That said, Szatany, myself, and a few other members of the boards have been doing this very thing. You can find a link to the page in my sig. If you like what you see there, leave some feedback. Hell, even if you dont.
Gemstone
12-23-06, 06:19 PM Skill of Legend
Your skill with the weapon of your choice is legendary and beyond that of other warriors. In fact, your strikes are almost magical
Requirements: Fighter level 3rd, Weapon Focus
Benefit: Treat the weapon type of your Weapon Focus feat as if it were a +1 weapon.
Special: You can take this feat more than once. Each time you take it, it applies to another Weapon Focus weapon.

Item Reprieve
While your reflexes may be slow, you can take the damage your weapons would suffer...
Requirements: Fighter level 9th
Benefit: You may use your Fortitude Save against any effect that would target an item which you possess, or the item's save, whichever is higher.

that's just the beginning, but we're working on it :)
Darth Sephiroth
12-23-06, 06:29 PM Personally giving the fighter a few more skills and +2 Skill Points would also be a nice addition
Ariath Ska'Vhor
12-23-06, 06:35 PM Why not just paly a warblade?
Repeekluos
12-23-06, 06:42 PM Why not just paly a warblade?

Cause some people want to play fighters?
maxxrox
12-23-06, 10:02 PM You have to think about what's balanced. Every class hits its stride at a different level. Barbarians and Fighters are amazing at early levels. Rangers, Paladins, Rogues, and Druids outdo them at 8th level. Wizards and Sorcerers don't really hit their high point until the later levels.

Now what if I were to say, "Wizards and Sorcerers should be able to start off with 1st and 2nd level spells and be able to cast more often at 1st level because they're too weak." Would that be fair or balanced?
theotherdraxen
12-23-06, 10:06 PM Why not just paly a warblade?

As much as a warblade feels like a fighter, it doesn't replace it. A fighter has access to a great number of bonus feats, whereas a warblade's feats are quite limited. Maneuvers are cool, but don't quite offer the same effect as feats do.

Playing a warblade also feels different from playing a fighter.
theotherdraxen
12-23-06, 10:07 PM You have to think about what's balanced. Every class hits its stride at a different level. Barbarians and Fighters are amazing at early levels. Rangers, Paladins, Rogues, and Druids outdo them at 8th level. Wizards and Sorcerers don't really hit their high point until the later levels.

Now what if I were to say, "Wizards and Sorcerers should be able to start off with 1st and 2nd level spells and be able to cast more often at 1st level because they're too weak." Would that be fair or balanced?

It would be if it brought them up to snuff with the warrior-types at low levels. I don't think 'hitting your stride' is a good balancing system. I want to play a character that contributes significantly at every level of the game.
Aricomus
12-24-06, 02:02 AM ok...heres something nobody has mentioned yet...what about giving them more loot??? i know its not a perfect solution cuz it might seem infair at first but since fighters primarily (actually entirely) use weapons to fight wouldnt giving them more (or at least better) gear make their one strong point worth while??? here's a fighter15 i created to play as a combatant in a gladitorial tournament-thing for one of my adventures its definately not made to last a long time in adventures but its pretty tough (i used the more gold method mentioned above) I also used EXTREMELY generous stat rolling for him, but i use the same method for all characters in my adventures (even the PCs' characters) so its not out of balance in my adventures:

Pugnax the Powerful (sorry gfor the corny name but i need something gladiator-sounding)
Fighter15 CR15
LN Mediun Humanoid
Initiative +7; senses- darkvision 60ft.
Languages Common, dwarven, human, elven, halfling (yes i gave humans their own language so they dont feel left out:D )
________________________________________ _________________________

AC 31 Touch AC 15 F.F. AC 24
hp-255 (all characters in my adventures get max hp)
resistances- electricity10
Fort- +16; Ref- +10; Will- +8
________________________________________ _________________________

Speed 60ft.
Melee- +5 keen icy burts greatsword; +30/+25/+20/+15; 2d6+21, 13-20/x2
+2 Brilliant energy greatsword; +27/+22/+17/+12; 2d6+18; 13-20/x2
Ranged- +2 dancing mighty composite longbow (+8 Str bonus);
+20/+15/+10/+5; 1d8+10; x3
Base attack- +15; Grapple +23
Attack Options- Combat Focus, Combat Vigor, Combat Strike, Power Attack
Combat Gear- +5 keen icy burst greatsword, +2 brilliant energy greatsword, +2 dancing mighty composite longbow (+8 Str bonus), Scabbard of keen edges
________________________________________ _________________________

Abilities- Str 26; Dex 17; Con 24; Int 17; Wis 17; Cha 13
Feats- Weapon Focus (greatsword), weapon specialization (greatsword), greater weapon focus (greatsword), greater weapon specialization (greatsword), Quick Draw, Power Attack, Dodge, Mobility, Improved Critical (greatsword), Armor specializatoin (full plate), lightning reflexes, combat focus, combat vigor, combat strike
Possessions- +5 keen icy burst greatsword, +2 brilliant energy greatsword, +2 dancing mighty composite longbow (+8 Str bonus), +4 full plate of lightning resistance, Scabbard of keen edges, Belt of giant strength +6, Bracers of health +4, Boots of striding and springing
________________________________________ _________________________

he's pretty tough, but like i sed he's not a character meant to last in an adventure regardless...204 damage w/ no criticals is pretty impressive
itwasntme
12-24-06, 02:12 AM I dount think people Relize how Allsome Feats kick ass ... Well in non Core Games at least

Ive created Fighters that been able to kick ass ... and was basicly a solo build

The HARD thing about fighters is knowing how to play them eveyone beleves that your going to be this Brute force type of guy (In my mind as a DM thats more of a barbian who charges into combat without thinkinging) Not a fighter

My Experince as a DM and a Player with Fighters Can be Kick ass class but VERY Differcult to do so you need to know what your doing and not do random things like chargeing a bunch of orcs as a level 1 wizard ... Dumb and Random but its more known to people that its dumb for the wizard they expect that a Fighter and other Melee or IE Fighter Class would Charge eveything ... False thats not a very smart fighter let me tell you that

I Created a Melee Class maybe i should show people it? o well

If it got a feat and thouse things for FREE? ... allsome i'll ban the fighter in my games now (My Players are Kick ass players the only reason why i can kill the party off at times is becouse they act like idiots like above ...) And they have made fighters (Legitly) That can beat up or Have a good solid chance agest the other class's ...

So if that was in my games with my players i know my players would become Broken with all the things they do GAH i hate / love my players to a point lol

*Crys*

O well ... Nice thing but ive seen other list of how the fighter is improved
nonsi
12-24-06, 11:15 AM It would be if it brought them up to snuff with the warrior-types at low levels. I don't think 'hitting your stride' is a good balancing system. I want to play a character that contributes significantly at every level of the game.

I think this revised fighter would do just that:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=757892

You might also consider taking a glence at my revised monk:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=760252

if you have any questions or remarks, just ask.
Nitan
12-24-06, 11:39 AM Cause some people want to play fighters?

No, I think this topic is clearly indicative that people do not want to play Fighters.
Ghenesh
12-24-06, 11:51 AM On the OP's question, no, it wouldn't be imbalanced to give the fighter those 5 extra Fighter Bonus feats. But what do you want to accomplish here? if you want to make the Fighter a class desirable to level up to 20th level, it's some kind of solution, a bit blunt but a good approach, it will be better balanced against a multiclassed character (taking PrCs is multiclassing).
Spellfire_junkie
12-24-06, 03:21 PM Personally, I think that the Fighter is NOT underpowered, but rather, has the better chance to be underplayed. The only problem with the class is ironically the same as its greatest boon, which is that his worth is measured by how well he is built by the player. A monk isn't that much better, if any; he is just more structured, with less chance to botch his progression. I think that giving the fighter feats that synergize is the best way to maintain the power that the Fighter starts out with. Also, kudos to Repeekluos on doing this with the web of feats in your sig. To answer the question of the OP, while I don't think it would be unbalancing, it would be rather presumptious that the Fighter would be focused on a particular weapon. I would simply give a bonus feat at ALL levels, and let the players do as they wish with them.
nonsi
12-24-06, 06:30 PM I would simply give a bonus feat at ALL levels, and let the players do as they wish with them.

And how would that make them any less underplayed ?
I mean, there's not much further to go beyond 3 good feat-progression trees.
Szatany
12-24-06, 07:47 PM Ok Gemstone, wanna simple and clean way to spice up the fighter? Here it is: Give him one, just one ability at 11th level.

Tactical Genius (Ex): At 11th level, the fighter doubles all bonuses granted by [fighter] feats he has. For every 11 fighter levels beyond those bonuses are doubled again (in essence they are tripled at level 22nd, quadrupled at level 33rd, and so on).

Cleaner and better than free weapon foci and such. Enjoy.
Repeekluos
12-24-06, 09:07 PM No, I think this topic is clearly indicative that people do not want to play Fighters.

If people did not want to play fighters, why are there so many fighter fix threads?
I think is very, very obvious that people indeed do want to play fighters.
Gemstone
12-25-06, 05:14 AM If people did not want to play fighters, why are there so many fighter fix threads?
I think is very, very obvious that people indeed do want to play fighters.
Or it could be that many people [b]want[b] to play a fighter, but can't, because it's so horrible underpowered and thus they try to make it better without actually playing it? ;)

But this thread is degenerating into a "fighter is good/bad" thread. I was simply interested in how you would judge my starting post :)
Ghenesh
12-25-06, 09:38 AM Tactical Genius (Ex): At 11th level, the fighter doubles all bonuses granted by [fighter] feats he has. For every 11 fighter levels beyond those bonuses are doubled again (in essence they are tripled at level 22nd, quadrupled at level 33rd, and so on).
That is so broken (Improved Trip/Bull Rush, Power Attack, Mobility, Improved Combat Expertise, etc). A +1 bonus to all his Fighter Feats bonuses would be somewhat balanced.

What about this:

Inner Strenght (ex): Once per encounter, a 13th level Fighter can add his strenght modifier as a competence bonus to one saving throw.
Szatany
12-25-06, 09:45 AM That is so broken (Improved Trip/Bull Rush, Power Attack, Mobility, Improved Combat Expertise, etc). A +1 bonus to all his Fighter Feats bonuses would be somewhat balanced.Forgot about PA and CE. Easily remedied.

Tactical Genius (Ex): At 11th level, the fighter doubles all fixed (non-variable) bonuses granted by [fighter] feats he has. For every 11 fighter levels beyond those bonuses are doubled again (in essence they are tripled at level 22nd, quadrupled at level 33rd, and so on).

Feats like improved trip granting +8 at 11th level are not broken, just very good. (not as good as disintegrate of course, but nice thing to brag about)

What about this:
Inner Strenght (ex): Once per encounter, a 13th level Fighter can add his strenght modifier as a competence bonus to one saving throw.

This is definitely useful. Not as good as paladin's 2nd level ability of course but not bad either.
Xorial
12-25-06, 10:17 AM No, I think this topic is clearly indicative that people do not want to play Fighters.
No, it is not. It is indicative that SOME people who HAPPEN to participate on these boards don't want to play a fighter. I have had plenty of players, that do not go on message boards, who happen to like playing fighters. I personally like playing fighters. I have never run across the problems that others claim is the hallmark of why the fighter is useless. My only real point of contention with the fighter, is that it front loaded. He gets alot of virtual feats that he has no chance of using early on. What 1st level fighter can afford a tower shield & plate armor?
Repeekluos
12-25-06, 08:16 PM Or it could be that many people [b]want[b] to play a fighter, but can't, because it's so horrible underpowered and thus they try to make it better without actually playing it? ;)

But this thread is degenerating into a "fighter is good/bad" thread. I was simply interested in how you would judge my starting post :)

I apologize for contributing to the ranting. Anyway, as I said earlier, it would not be terribly broken, but it also would not help. Feats are unfortunately not enough to take a class to 20 levels with. That is why Szatany, myself, and a few others have done what we could to make feats better. The fighter as a class, is on a, completely balanced. It just needs a little help in what it gets to use.

As far as the WF, WS, GWF, GWS, for free goes, I don't think that is bad, but it goes along with my earlier statement.
Aricomus
12-26-06, 10:31 PM umm... can any1 give me a little feedbak on that fighter i posted on the 24th??
Repeekluos
12-27-06, 10:39 AM umm... can any1 give me a little feedbak on that fighter i posted on the 24th??

Will save of +8 at 15th level.
There my friend is your feedback.
While he may be tough, and he may be able to hit real, real hard, he will be doing so for the enemy in about one round of combat. If on the other hand he is meant to be the enemy, he will be working for the party in about one round of combat...
Aricomus
12-30-06, 11:37 PM point taken.....any1 else?:confused:
Szatany
12-31-06, 05:26 AM point taken.....any1 else?:confused:

So you solution to make warriors survive is to give everyone max HP? Otherwise he would have what, 2/3 of this number. He can stand a lot because of that house rule that's for sure. I'm not saying it's bad idea, it might be pretty good actually.
I'm guessing he's human, how did he get those ability scores? I can see only Str +6 item.
Aricomus
12-31-06, 10:18 AM he's dwarf...didnt i post that?
Szatany
01-01-07, 05:16 AM he's dwarf...didnt i post that?

Nope, still doesn't explain why all his ability scores except Str are about 6 points too high. Unless of course he has +6 item for each one, but that's not stated.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gemstone 12-23-06, 04:52 PM	How unbalanced would the game become if we altered the fighter class so that it gained 1 bonus feat every level after 10th instead of 1 bonus feat every 2nd level. On a second note, how would it also affect the game if you gave the fighter the weapon focus, weapon specailization and the greater variants thereof as soon as they could get them, for free? :)
theotherdraxen 12-23-06, 04:54 PM	Still underpowered. Feats are just low-level abilities, and no matter how many you have, you still lack the capacity to compete at high levels. It's like having a million stubby fingers.
Szatany 12-23-06, 04:54 PM	How unbalanced would the game become if we altered the fighter class so that it gained 1 bonus feat every level after 10th instead of 1 bonus feat every 2nd level. On a second note, how would it also affect the game if you gave the fighter the weapon focus, weapon specailization and the greater variants thereof as soon as they could get them, for free? :) None of those would make fighter too good so if you want to alter fighter in your games no one will suffer because of that (maybe except few monsters :) ).
maxxrox 12-23-06, 05:24 PM	You have to realize that almost nobody takes Fighter all the way through. Most people use it to get to BAB +6 and then take a PrC. If you look at it, the Fighter is extremely underpowered compared to the other base classes pretty much as soon as you hit level 8, but that's an argument for another thread.
Gemstone 12-23-06, 06:03 PM	You have to realize that almost nobody takes Fighter all the way through. Most people use it to get to BAB +6 and then take a PrC. If you look at it, the Fighter is extremely underpowered compared to the other base classes pretty much as soon as you hit level 8, but that's an argument for another thread. yes, the very reason to give them an additional +10 bonus feats (and of course, expand their bonus feat list), so that more players choose to go fighter all the way :) but thanks for the input
Repeekluos 12-23-06, 06:07 PM	Giving a fighter more feats, wont really help in terms of power. Feats are in general set at a very specific power level. If you really want to improve the fighter, improve the tools he has to work with. That said, Szatany, myself, and a few other members of the boards have been doing this very thing. You can find a link to the page in my sig. If you like what you see there, leave some feedback. Hell, even if you dont.
Gemstone 12-23-06, 06:19 PM	Skill of Legend Your skill with the weapon of your choice is legendary and beyond that of other warriors. In fact, your strikes are almost magical Requirements: Fighter level 3rd, Weapon Focus Benefit: Treat the weapon type of your Weapon Focus feat as if it were a +1 weapon. Special: You can take this feat more than once. Each time you take it, it applies to another Weapon Focus weapon. Item Reprieve While your reflexes may be slow, you can take the damage your weapons would suffer... Requirements: Fighter level 9th Benefit: You may use your Fortitude Save against any effect that would target an item which you possess, or the item's save, whichever is higher. that's just the beginning, but we're working on it :)
Darth Sephiroth 12-23-06, 06:29 PM	Personally giving the fighter a few more skills and +2 Skill Points would also be a nice addition
Ariath Ska'Vhor 12-23-06, 06:35 PM	Why not just paly a warblade?
Repeekluos 12-23-06, 06:42 PM	Why not just paly a warblade? Cause some people want to play fighters?
maxxrox 12-23-06, 10:02 PM	You have to think about what's balanced. Every class hits its stride at a different level. Barbarians and Fighters are amazing at early levels. Rangers, Paladins, Rogues, and Druids outdo them at 8th level. Wizards and Sorcerers don't really hit their high point until the later levels. Now what if I were to say, "Wizards and Sorcerers should be able to start off with 1st and 2nd level spells and be able to cast more often at 1st level because they're too weak." Would that be fair or balanced?
theotherdraxen 12-23-06, 10:06 PM	Why not just paly a warblade? As much as a warblade feels like a fighter, it doesn't replace it. A fighter has access to a great number of bonus feats, whereas a warblade's feats are quite limited. Maneuvers are cool, but don't quite offer the same effect as feats do. Playing a warblade also feels different from playing a fighter.
theotherdraxen 12-23-06, 10:07 PM	You have to think about what's balanced. Every class hits its stride at a different level. Barbarians and Fighters are amazing at early levels. Rangers, Paladins, Rogues, and Druids outdo them at 8th level. Wizards and Sorcerers don't really hit their high point until the later levels. Now what if I were to say, "Wizards and Sorcerers should be able to start off with 1st and 2nd level spells and be able to cast more often at 1st level because they're too weak." Would that be fair or balanced? It would be if it brought them up to snuff with the warrior-types at low levels. I don't think 'hitting your stride' is a good balancing system. I want to play a character that contributes significantly at every level of the game.
Aricomus 12-24-06, 02:02 AM	ok...heres something nobody has mentioned yet...what about giving them more loot??? i know its not a perfect solution cuz it might seem infair at first but since fighters primarily (actually entirely) use weapons to fight wouldnt giving them more (or at least better) gear make their one strong point worth while??? here's a fighter15 i created to play as a combatant in a gladitorial tournament-thing for one of my adventures its definately not made to last a long time in adventures but its pretty tough (i used the more gold method mentioned above) I also used EXTREMELY generous stat rolling for him, but i use the same method for all characters in my adventures (even the PCs' characters) so its not out of balance in my adventures: Pugnax the Powerful (sorry gfor the corny name but i need something gladiator-sounding) Fighter15 CR15 LN Mediun Humanoid Initiative +7; senses- darkvision 60ft. Languages Common, dwarven, human, elven, halfling (yes i gave humans their own language so they dont feel left out:D ) ________________________________________ _________________________ AC 31 Touch AC 15 F.F. AC 24 hp-255 (all characters in my adventures get max hp) resistances- electricity10 Fort- +16; Ref- +10; Will- +8 ________________________________________ _________________________ Speed 60ft. Melee- +5 keen icy burts greatsword; +30/+25/+20/+15; 2d6+21, 13-20/x2 +2 Brilliant energy greatsword; +27/+22/+17/+12; 2d6+18; 13-20/x2 Ranged- +2 dancing mighty composite longbow (+8 Str bonus); +20/+15/+10/+5; 1d8+10; x3 Base attack- +15; Grapple +23 Attack Options- Combat Focus, Combat Vigor, Combat Strike, Power Attack Combat Gear- +5 keen icy burst greatsword, +2 brilliant energy greatsword, +2 dancing mighty composite longbow (+8 Str bonus), Scabbard of keen edges ________________________________________ _________________________ Abilities- Str 26; Dex 17; Con 24; Int 17; Wis 17; Cha 13 Feats- Weapon Focus (greatsword), weapon specialization (greatsword), greater weapon focus (greatsword), greater weapon specialization (greatsword), Quick Draw, Power Attack, Dodge, Mobility, Improved Critical (greatsword), Armor specializatoin (full plate), lightning reflexes, combat focus, combat vigor, combat strike Possessions- +5 keen icy burst greatsword, +2 brilliant energy greatsword, +2 dancing mighty composite longbow (+8 Str bonus), +4 full plate of lightning resistance, Scabbard of keen edges, Belt of giant strength +6, Bracers of health +4, Boots of striding and springing ________________________________________ _________________________ he's pretty tough, but like i sed he's not a character meant to last in an adventure regardless...204 damage w/ no criticals is pretty impressive
itwasntme 12-24-06, 02:12 AM	I dount think people Relize how Allsome Feats kick ass ... Well in non Core Games at least Ive created Fighters that been able to kick ass ... and was basicly a solo build The HARD thing about fighters is knowing how to play them eveyone beleves that your going to be this Brute force type of guy (In my mind as a DM thats more of a barbian who charges into combat without thinkinging) Not a fighter My Experince as a DM and a Player with Fighters Can be Kick ass class but VERY Differcult to do so you need to know what your doing and not do random things like chargeing a bunch of orcs as a level 1 wizard ... Dumb and Random but its more known to people that its dumb for the wizard they expect that a Fighter and other Melee or IE Fighter Class would Charge eveything ... False thats not a very smart fighter let me tell you that I Created a Melee Class maybe i should show people it? o well If it got a feat and thouse things for FREE? ... allsome i'll ban the fighter in my games now (My Players are Kick ass players the only reason why i can kill the party off at times is becouse they act like idiots like above ...) And they have made fighters (Legitly) That can beat up or Have a good solid chance agest the other class's ... So if that was in my games with my players i know my players would become Broken with all the things they do GAH i hate / love my players to a point lol Crys O well ... Nice thing but ive seen other list of how the fighter is improved
nonsi 12-24-06, 11:15 AM	It would be if it brought them up to snuff with the warrior-types at low levels. I don't think 'hitting your stride' is a good balancing system. I want to play a character that contributes significantly at every level of the game. I think this revised fighter would do just that: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=757892 You might also consider taking a glence at my revised monk: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=760252 if you have any questions or remarks, just ask.
Nitan 12-24-06, 11:39 AM	Cause some people want to play fighters? No, I think this topic is clearly indicative that people do not want to play Fighters.
Ghenesh 12-24-06, 11:51 AM	On the OP's question, no, it wouldn't be imbalanced to give the fighter those 5 extra Fighter Bonus feats. But what do you want to accomplish here? if you want to make the Fighter a class desirable to level up to 20th level, it's some kind of solution, a bit blunt but a good approach, it will be better balanced against a multiclassed character (taking PrCs is multiclassing).
Spellfire_junkie 12-24-06, 03:21 PM	Personally, I think that the Fighter is NOT underpowered, but rather, has the better chance to be underplayed. The only problem with the class is ironically the same as its greatest boon, which is that his worth is measured by how well he is built by the player. A monk isn't that much better, if any; he is just more structured, with less chance to botch his progression. I think that giving the fighter feats that synergize is the best way to maintain the power that the Fighter starts out with. Also, kudos to Repeekluos on doing this with the web of feats in your sig. To answer the question of the OP, while I don't think it would be unbalancing, it would be rather presumptious that the Fighter would be focused on a particular weapon. I would simply give a bonus feat at ALL levels, and let the players do as they wish with them.
nonsi 12-24-06, 06:30 PM	I would simply give a bonus feat at ALL levels, and let the players do as they wish with them. And how would that make them any less underplayed ? I mean, there's not much further to go beyond 3 good feat-progression trees.
Szatany 12-24-06, 07:47 PM	Ok Gemstone, wanna simple and clean way to spice up the fighter? Here it is: Give him one, just one ability at 11th level. Tactical Genius (Ex): At 11th level, the fighter doubles all bonuses granted by [fighter] feats he has. For every 11 fighter levels beyond those bonuses are doubled again (in essence they are tripled at level 22nd, quadrupled at level 33rd, and so on). Cleaner and better than free weapon foci and such. Enjoy.
Repeekluos 12-24-06, 09:07 PM	No, I think this topic is clearly indicative that people do not want to play Fighters. If people did not want to play fighters, why are there so many fighter fix threads? I think is very, very obvious that people indeed do want to play fighters.
Gemstone 12-25-06, 05:14 AM	If people did not want to play fighters, why are there so many fighter fix threads? I think is very, very obvious that people indeed do want to play fighters. Or it could be that many people [b]want[b] to play a fighter, but can't, because it's so horrible underpowered and thus they try to make it better without actually playing it? ;) But this thread is degenerating into a "fighter is good/bad" thread. I was simply interested in how you would judge my starting post :)
Ghenesh 12-25-06, 09:38 AM	Tactical Genius (Ex): At 11th level, the fighter doubles all bonuses granted by [fighter] feats he has. For every 11 fighter levels beyond those bonuses are doubled again (in essence they are tripled at level 22nd, quadrupled at level 33rd, and so on). That is so broken (Improved Trip/Bull Rush, Power Attack, Mobility, Improved Combat Expertise, etc). A +1 bonus to all his Fighter Feats bonuses would be somewhat balanced. What about this: Inner Strenght (ex): Once per encounter, a 13th level Fighter can add his strenght modifier as a competence bonus to one saving throw.
Szatany 12-25-06, 09:45 AM	That is so broken (Improved Trip/Bull Rush, Power Attack, Mobility, Improved Combat Expertise, etc). A +1 bonus to all his Fighter Feats bonuses would be somewhat balanced.Forgot about PA and CE. Easily remedied. Tactical Genius (Ex): At 11th level, the fighter doubles all fixed (non-variable) bonuses granted by [fighter] feats he has. For every 11 fighter levels beyond those bonuses are doubled again (in essence they are tripled at level 22nd, quadrupled at level 33rd, and so on). Feats like improved trip granting +8 at 11th level are not broken, just very good. (not as good as disintegrate of course, but nice thing to brag about) What about this: Inner Strenght (ex): Once per encounter, a 13th level Fighter can add his strenght modifier as a competence bonus to one saving throw. This is definitely useful. Not as good as paladin's 2nd level ability of course but not bad either.
Xorial 12-25-06, 10:17 AM	No, I think this topic is clearly indicative that people do not want to play Fighters. No, it is not. It is indicative that SOME people who HAPPEN to participate on these boards don't want to play a fighter. I have had plenty of players, that do not go on message boards, who happen to like playing fighters. I personally like playing fighters. I have never run across the problems that others claim is the hallmark of why the fighter is useless. My only real point of contention with the fighter, is that it front loaded. He gets alot of virtual feats that he has no chance of using early on. What 1st level fighter can afford a tower shield & plate armor?
Repeekluos 12-25-06, 08:16 PM	Or it could be that many people [b]want[b] to play a fighter, but can't, because it's so horrible underpowered and thus they try to make it better without actually playing it? ;) But this thread is degenerating into a "fighter is good/bad" thread. I was simply interested in how you would judge my starting post :) I apologize for contributing to the ranting. Anyway, as I said earlier, it would not be terribly broken, but it also would not help. Feats are unfortunately not enough to take a class to 20 levels with. That is why Szatany, myself, and a few others have done what we could to make feats better. The fighter as a class, is on a, completely balanced. It just needs a little help in what it gets to use. As far as the WF, WS, GWF, GWS, for free goes, I don't think that is bad, but it goes along with my earlier statement.
Aricomus 12-26-06, 10:31 PM	umm... can any1 give me a little feedbak on that fighter i posted on the 24th??
Repeekluos 12-27-06, 10:39 AM	umm... can any1 give me a little feedbak on that fighter i posted on the 24th?? Will save of +8 at 15th level. There my friend is your feedback. While he may be tough, and he may be able to hit real, real hard, he will be doing so for the enemy in about one round of combat. If on the other hand he is meant to be the enemy, he will be working for the party in about one round of combat...
Aricomus 12-30-06, 11:37 PM	point taken.....any1 else?:confused:
Szatany 12-31-06, 05:26 AM	point taken.....any1 else?:confused: So you solution to make warriors survive is to give everyone max HP? Otherwise he would have what, 2/3 of this number. He can stand a lot because of that house rule that's for sure. I'm not saying it's bad idea, it might be pretty good actually. I'm guessing he's human, how did he get those ability scores? I can see only Str +6 item.
Aricomus 12-31-06, 10:18 AM	he's dwarf...didnt i post that?
Szatany 01-01-07, 05:16 AM	he's dwarf...didnt i post that? Nope, still doesn't explain why all his ability scores except Str are about 6 points too high. Unless of course he has +6 item for each one, but that's not stated.