Alternative Necromancer from "Unearthed Arcana" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alternative Necromancer from "Unearthed Arcana" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Threefists
09-07-07, 08:34 AM Now there is a Class Ability Substitution in Unearthed Arcana for the Necromancer Specialist, on page 63, middle-right of the page, that replaces the Familiar with a Skeletal Minion (FTW!) Now, I have a question about this 'Skeletal Minion'.

Can it:
A) Be equiped with armor? The way I read the Human Warrior Skeleton entry in the MM1 is that it retains the ability to use simple and martial weapons, light and medium armor and light and heavy shields. It still has a BAB equal to the Necromancer, but with the bonuses of 'Skeletal Minion' it gains 1 HD per Necromancer level, 1/2 the Necromancer's Class Level in Natural Armor and 1/3rd the Necromancer's Class Level in Strength and Dexterity scores.

B) Have the Spell-Stitched Template stacked onto it? I'd personally say no to this, but in contrast to a Druid or Ranger's animal companion, a Human Warrior Skeleton isn't going to suddenly out-pwn the Fighter or the Rogue.

For the sake of argument, I'll put the ideas above into play.

Here we have Cain of Twistspire, a level 12 Necromancer with the Skeletal Minion Class Ability.

(We'll skip his abilities ect ect for the sake of expidency and go strait for the skeleton!)

Skeletal Minion, 'Sticks'
HD: 12D12
Initiative: +9
Speed: 20 ft (4 squares) Unarmored 30 ft (6 squares)
AC: 29 (+3 Dex, +8 Natural, +6 +1 Adamantium Hammerblock Breastplate, +2 Heavy Steel Shield), Touch 13, Flat Footed 26.
BAB/Grapple: +6/+11
Attack: +1 Battle Axe +12 (1D8+4 x3) or Claw +11 (1D4+3 x2)
Full Attack: +1 Battle Axe +12/+7 (1D8+4 x3) or 2 Claws +11 (1D4+2 x2)
Space/Reach: 5 ft/5 ft.
Saves: Fort +0, Ref +7, Will +8
Special Attacks: Nil
Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 5/Bludgeoning, Damage Reduction 5/Piercing or Slashing, Damage Reduction 2/-, Darkvision 60 ft, Immunity to Cold, Undead Traits.
Abilities: Str 17, Dex 17, Con -, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 1.
Feats: Improved Initiative.
Alignment: As Master.
Equipment: +1 Adamantium Hammerblock Breastplate, +1 Battle Axe, Masterwork Heavy Steel Shield.

Now, as that stands, the Necromancer has a fine bodyguard, with a High AC granted by Natural Armour and good, relatively cheap gear, remembering that this 'Skeletal Minion' belongs to a PC, not a NPC, meaning the 12th level Necromancer has 88,000 gold to spend, the above equipment costing 9000+10000+150+200, total of 19350 for the Breastplate, 300+10+2000, total of 2310 for the Battle Axe and 150+20, total of 170 for the Masterwork Heavy Steel Shield, to a grand total of 21830 out of 88000...not a bad investment for a loyal bodyguard that will never betray the Necromancer, never complain or tire, and best of all, not ***** about getting caught in the middle of a Maximised 'Lord of the Uttercold' Cold-Substitued Fireball.
Plus the 7 Damage Reduction against just about anything that the DM can throw at you, except of course Morningstars, is a nice bonus for the Necromancer who's sick to F-ing death of being left to fend for himself why the rest of the party charges in like feckless idiots. Wanna melee the squishie? Deal with the Undead Tank first!
BloodDragon
09-07-07, 01:37 PM BAB of 6 at level 12? and only a +12 to hit at level 12. He's not going to be hitting much at all.

Speicalizing is generally a bad idea to begin with as it limits your versatile, which is the wizard’s strong point.

However if you’re that hung up on having a Skeleton buddy I suggest you build him for AC and use him as a wall/shield between you and the bad guys, or a flanking buddy for your rogue. Unless you plan on packing a lot of nasty spells that add +to hit for an undead, but again I’d call that a waste when you should be casting Acid Fog.
natzero
09-07-07, 02:09 PM it doesnt say anywhere that the skeleton doesnt gain bonus as it gains HD anywhere i can see. as far as i can tell that 12 HD skeleton should have 3 more feats, as undead gain one every 4 HD. (weapon focus, perhaps stench of the dead{ua p. 94})
for the other 2 feats pull some strings. since this variant is in the unearthed arcana use the warrior generic class for feats. the generic feats :) may take some sweet talking the dm, but id say go with evasion and sneak attack :0 hehe

all is fair in love and char optimization

thatd be a crazy fun char to play, even if that dumb necromancer has to follow you around all over the place.
imakuni67
09-07-07, 04:29 PM Maybe you can make a feat that lets your minion take fighter levels instead of warrior?
RobbyPants
09-07-07, 04:34 PM Speicalizing is generally a bad idea to begin with as it limits your versatile, which is the wizard’s strong point.
I agree with the overall sentiment (espescially when specializing in necromancy), but with all the splat books coming out, specializing is becoming more and more attractive. I'm not sure which two schools I'd want to choose to give up if I specialized in Necromancy, but then again, I'd probably be specializing in Conjuration anyway. A conjurer that gives up Enchantment and Evocation loses next to nothing and gains quite a bit.

Back on track...

I've always taken the skeletal minion to be more of a flavor thing than anything else. It seems a bit too weak to let it go tanking like an animal companion.

I have to read the variant itself, but as far as I know, it wouldn't gain feats for extra hit dice. Maybe I'm just remembering wrong, but I think that's how it works for animal companions as well.
Threefists
09-07-07, 08:11 PM Doesn't mention anything about feats in the description, and since it's technically a 'familiar', I'd think it wouldn't gain Feats, although I could and am often wrong on the subject.

@BloodDragon: I think that was the idea of "Unearthed Arcana". Necromancer's aren't generally the most popular people in a ordinary campaign. Good-Aligned Clerics hate you, Druids of all stripes hate you, Commoners and Experts hate you, Paladin's hate you simply for being spooky, let alone the 'raising the dead' schtick, PELOR hates you simply for being concieved...having someone, or something to watch your back is a must.

Besides, considering that the descripton also says that you lose no XP for the loss of the Skeletal Minion, it makes a lot more sense than taking the Improved Familiar feat to make a bodyguard out of your familiar, and keeps with the archetype of the Necromancer (Trust me, Celestial Familiar and a Coure Eladrin just ruins the whole 'quiet-and-somber shepherd of the dead' cliche! You try to be serious and it makes fart jokes. Or maybe the DM just doesn't like Eladrins :doh: )
Mojo_Rat
09-07-07, 10:05 PM Important thing is, It isnt a familiar. It is just something you get in place of one. It also does not get any feats as it is unintelligent. (Although Id probly give it the improved initiative skeletons get)
DonThelonious
09-08-07, 12:07 AM A friend of mine played one of these and he actually had a lot of fun with it. As to the unintelligent thing I have one spell for you: Awaken Undead.
Its from the Savage Species splat book and was 3.0, but its not overpowered. He got that spell cast on his little skeleton then had it start following the fighter progression. You want to talk about a gnarley little warmonger.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Threefists 09-07-07, 08:34 AM	Now there is a Class Ability Substitution in Unearthed Arcana for the Necromancer Specialist, on page 63, middle-right of the page, that replaces the Familiar with a Skeletal Minion (FTW!) Now, I have a question about this 'Skeletal Minion'. Can it: A) Be equiped with armor? The way I read the Human Warrior Skeleton entry in the MM1 is that it retains the ability to use simple and martial weapons, light and medium armor and light and heavy shields. It still has a BAB equal to the Necromancer, but with the bonuses of 'Skeletal Minion' it gains 1 HD per Necromancer level, 1/2 the Necromancer's Class Level in Natural Armor and 1/3rd the Necromancer's Class Level in Strength and Dexterity scores. B) Have the Spell-Stitched Template stacked onto it? I'd personally say no to this, but in contrast to a Druid or Ranger's animal companion, a Human Warrior Skeleton isn't going to suddenly out-pwn the Fighter or the Rogue. For the sake of argument, I'll put the ideas above into play. Here we have Cain of Twistspire, a level 12 Necromancer with the Skeletal Minion Class Ability. (We'll skip his abilities ect ect for the sake of expidency and go strait for the skeleton!) Skeletal Minion, 'Sticks' HD: 12D12 Initiative: +9 Speed: 20 ft (4 squares) Unarmored 30 ft (6 squares) AC: 29 (+3 Dex, +8 Natural, +6 +1 Adamantium Hammerblock Breastplate, +2 Heavy Steel Shield), Touch 13, Flat Footed 26. BAB/Grapple: +6/+11 Attack: +1 Battle Axe +12 (1D8+4 x3) or Claw +11 (1D4+3 x2) Full Attack: +1 Battle Axe +12/+7 (1D8+4 x3) or 2 Claws +11 (1D4+2 x2) Space/Reach: 5 ft/5 ft. Saves: Fort +0, Ref +7, Will +8 Special Attacks: Nil Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 5/Bludgeoning, Damage Reduction 5/Piercing or Slashing, Damage Reduction 2/-, Darkvision 60 ft, Immunity to Cold, Undead Traits. Abilities: Str 17, Dex 17, Con -, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 1. Feats: Improved Initiative. Alignment: As Master. Equipment: +1 Adamantium Hammerblock Breastplate, +1 Battle Axe, Masterwork Heavy Steel Shield. Now, as that stands, the Necromancer has a fine bodyguard, with a High AC granted by Natural Armour and good, relatively cheap gear, remembering that this 'Skeletal Minion' belongs to a PC, not a NPC, meaning the 12th level Necromancer has 88,000 gold to spend, the above equipment costing 9000+10000+150+200, total of 19350 for the Breastplate, 300+10+2000, total of 2310 for the Battle Axe and 150+20, total of 170 for the Masterwork Heavy Steel Shield, to a grand total of 21830 out of 88000...not a bad investment for a loyal bodyguard that will never betray the Necromancer, never complain or tire, and best of all, not ***** about getting caught in the middle of a Maximised 'Lord of the Uttercold' Cold-Substitued Fireball. Plus the 7 Damage Reduction against just about anything that the DM can throw at you, except of course Morningstars, is a nice bonus for the Necromancer who's sick to F-ing death of being left to fend for himself why the rest of the party charges in like feckless idiots. Wanna melee the squishie? Deal with the Undead Tank first!
BloodDragon 09-07-07, 01:37 PM	BAB of 6 at level 12? and only a +12 to hit at level 12. He's not going to be hitting much at all. Speicalizing is generally a bad idea to begin with as it limits your versatile, which is the wizard’s strong point. However if you’re that hung up on having a Skeleton buddy I suggest you build him for AC and use him as a wall/shield between you and the bad guys, or a flanking buddy for your rogue. Unless you plan on packing a lot of nasty spells that add +to hit for an undead, but again I’d call that a waste when you should be casting Acid Fog.
natzero 09-07-07, 02:09 PM	it doesnt say anywhere that the skeleton doesnt gain bonus as it gains HD anywhere i can see. as far as i can tell that 12 HD skeleton should have 3 more feats, as undead gain one every 4 HD. (weapon focus, perhaps stench of the dead{ua p. 94}) for the other 2 feats pull some strings. since this variant is in the unearthed arcana use the warrior generic class for feats. the generic feats :) may take some sweet talking the dm, but id say go with evasion and sneak attack :0 hehe all is fair in love and char optimization thatd be a crazy fun char to play, even if that dumb necromancer has to follow you around all over the place.
imakuni67 09-07-07, 04:29 PM	Maybe you can make a feat that lets your minion take fighter levels instead of warrior?
RobbyPants 09-07-07, 04:34 PM	Speicalizing is generally a bad idea to begin with as it limits your versatile, which is the wizard’s strong point. I agree with the overall sentiment (espescially when specializing in necromancy), but with all the splat books coming out, specializing is becoming more and more attractive. I'm not sure which two schools I'd want to choose to give up if I specialized in Necromancy, but then again, I'd probably be specializing in Conjuration anyway. A conjurer that gives up Enchantment and Evocation loses next to nothing and gains quite a bit. Back on track... I've always taken the skeletal minion to be more of a flavor thing than anything else. It seems a bit too weak to let it go tanking like an animal companion. I have to read the variant itself, but as far as I know, it wouldn't gain feats for extra hit dice. Maybe I'm just remembering wrong, but I think that's how it works for animal companions as well.
Threefists 09-07-07, 08:11 PM	Doesn't mention anything about feats in the description, and since it's technically a 'familiar', I'd think it wouldn't gain Feats, although I could and am often wrong on the subject. @BloodDragon: I think that was the idea of "Unearthed Arcana". Necromancer's aren't generally the most popular people in a ordinary campaign. Good-Aligned Clerics hate you, Druids of all stripes hate you, Commoners and Experts hate you, Paladin's hate you simply for being spooky, let alone the 'raising the dead' schtick, PELOR hates you simply for being concieved...having someone, or something to watch your back is a must. Besides, considering that the descripton also says that you lose no XP for the loss of the Skeletal Minion, it makes a lot more sense than taking the Improved Familiar feat to make a bodyguard out of your familiar, and keeps with the archetype of the Necromancer (Trust me, Celestial Familiar and a Coure Eladrin just ruins the whole 'quiet-and-somber shepherd of the dead' cliche! You try to be serious and it makes fart jokes. Or maybe the DM just doesn't like Eladrins :doh: )
Mojo_Rat 09-07-07, 10:05 PM	Important thing is, It isnt a familiar. It is just something you get in place of one. It also does not get any feats as it is unintelligent. (Although Id probly give it the improved initiative skeletons get)
DonThelonious 09-08-07, 12:07 AM	A friend of mine played one of these and he actually had a lot of fun with it. As to the unintelligent thing I have one spell for you: Awaken Undead. Its from the Savage Species splat book and was 3.0, but its not overpowered. He got that spell cast on his little skeleton then had it start following the fighter progression. You want to talk about a gnarley little warmonger.