Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Klytus 11-13-03, 02:17 PM	First of all... I hope this is the right forum for posting this. Secondly, as the title should make plain, I wish to discuss alternatives to the given 3.5 rules for Wizard school specialization. It is my feeling that to utterly surrender two schools of magic (or one if you wish to be a Diviner) is way too harsh a penalty for the minimal gains granted. On the other hand, if the penalties are too light, no one would ever chose to be a "generalist" wizard. I have come up with the following, and would love to get some feedback on what you all think out there. Thanks in advance Wizards and School Specialization A school is one of eight groupings of spells, each defined by a common theme. If desired, a wizard may specialize in one school of magic. Specialization grants a wizard extra spells and proficiency from her chosen school, but she then is forever penalized with spells from any two other schools (players choice). Because it is so basic and fundamental, the school of Divination may not be chosen either as a specialty or as a restricted school. Penalties: - There is a flat -6 to all Spellcraft rolls for any restricted schools - The spells a wizard learns for free when going up a level may never be from a restricted school - A Wizard with Spell Mastery may never chose spells from restricted schools - There is always at least a 50% chance that any attempt to scribe a spell from a restricted school will fail, no matter how high your Spellcraft - A specialist may only learn restricted spells of a spell level one lower than his highest normal spell level - All restricted spells are cast at half of the effective caster level, this includes all elements of the spell: range, duration, damage dice, defeating Spell Resistance and/or resisting Dispel Magic, etc. - Targets receive a +2 bonus to their Saving Throws vs restricted spells. Perks: - One extra spell per level per day which must be from your chosen school - When going up a level, gain a bonus spell from your specalization school - If you have Spell Mastery, you gain mastery of two spells from your chosen school above and beyond what your INT bonus would normally grant - A +2 bonus to all Spellcraft checks for your specialy school - A +1 bonus to your caster level for specialized spells - A +1 DC vs all saves against speciallized spells.
Xorial 11-13-03, 04:03 PM	Check out my Sig for a link to a different way to handle Specialist Mages.
Crashy75 11-13-03, 10:09 PM	I like where your going with this. I don't like the idea of 'restricted' schools myself.
Klytus 11-13-03, 10:14 PM	Originally posted by Crashy75 I like where your going with this. I don't like the idea of 'restricted' schools myself. What do you suggest? Personally, I think "restricted' works far better than "forbidden"...
Klytus 11-17-03, 10:12 AM	This is it? No one has any further comments about this? Even to say "it suxs"?
Shadowfax7 11-17-03, 11:58 AM	Well I don't think your idea sux and I also do not like prohibited schools for being specialized. However, these are my suggestions: 1) No prohibited schools I agree that they should be restricted, not prohibited. 2) Both benefits of specialization as per the 3.5 PHB. Prohibiting schools is too much a hindrance for the benefits, but the specialization benefits as written are fine. 3) All other schools are restricted, which gives a penalty of 2 to Spellcraft checks to learn those spells. This would be one restriction for gaining the benefits of specialization. 4) Both of the 2 spells gained at a new level must be from the Wizard's school of specialization. This is the 2nd restriction for gaining the benefits of specialization. I use this in my campaign because I want specialists to cast mostly their specialist school spells - all other spells are found, bought and/or copied from scrolls/books. ( I am aware that some schools don't have enough spells to warrant the add'l 38 spells <2/level for levels 2-20> which would be gained at new levels, but this makes PCs research new and original spells in their specialty) Again, these are my suggestions and what I use for my campaign. Please keep in mind that I am NOT looking for critique on my houserules. :)
Klytus 11-17-03, 01:20 PM	In response: 3) All other schools are restricted, which gives a penalty of 2 to Spellcraft checks to learn those spells. This would be one restriction for gaining the benefits of specialization. I thought about this, too. The only problem is, once you hit mid level, a -2 to a skill becomes meaningless. But thanks for your feedback.
Shadowfax7 11-17-03, 01:52 PM	NP . . . but the -2 penalty to learn spells from the restricted schools specifically balances out the +2 bonus to learn spells from the specialization school. BTW this is only one specific use of the Spellcraft skill. Thus when one gets weak as levels go up, so does the other. As far as the other restriction, the one regarding spells gained at each new level, this is balanced out by the add'l spells that can be cast at each spell level. However, you might not like that option.:D
Klytus 11-17-03, 11:53 PM	Originally posted by Shadowfax7 NP . . . but the -2 penalty to learn spells from the restricted schools specifically balances out the +2 bonus to learn spells from the specialization school. BTW this is only one specific use of the Spellcraft skill. Thus when one gets weak as levels go up, so does the other. As far as the other restriction, the one regarding spells gained at each new level, this is balanced out by the add'l spells that can be cast at each spell level. However, you might not like that option.:D I guess i am simply of the opinion that a +/-2 to a Skill check is a meaningless bonus/penalty once you get past mid level. A 10th level Wizard with an 18 INT should have a +17 Spellcraft . This means that even WITH the -2 penalty to learn all non-specialty spells, the Wizard has a DC 26 to learn 9th level spells - or a 55% chance. These odds just continue to become even more meanigless as INT and Spellcraft go up every level. I'm sorry, but if this is the only cost for gaining an extra spell slot of your favore dschool of magic, then it becomes foolish *not* to specialize... which means the construct is not balanced.
Dmitri 11-18-03, 02:42 AM	I rather like your system, Klytus. One thing I've been doing is making specialization a feat for Wizards; it adds a bit of a cost to it, but it lets them do it later, as well. Otoh, I'm not sure it should be available later on in a Wizard's career...nobody's been playing specialist Wizards lately, so I haven't gotten to check it. I'm liking the restricted idea, though.
Shadowfax7 11-18-03, 03:41 PM	Klytus. . . again, not pushing you to my suggestions, but I feel you have still misunderstood them. This is the part of the post I feel you misunderstood: "As far as the other restriction, the one regarding spells gained at each new level, this is balanced out by the add'l spells that can be cast at each spell level" IMO, requiring both spells gained through research by Specialist Wizards at each new level to only be from their school of specialization, and not from any other school, balances out the primary benefit of school specialization, which is the add'l spells able to be cast from each spell level. The +2 bonus to Spellcraft on specialist spells vs. the suggested -2 penalty to Spellcraft on all other spells are a minor benefit and hindrance that balance each other out. :)
Xorial 11-18-03, 03:46 PM	I changed specialization into a PrC. It is available when taking 4th level. The main thing I did, was make it where opposition shools only advanced when you took a wizard level, not the PrC. That way a Evoker 10/ Wiz10, cast opposition spells as a 10th level caster, & he only had 5th level spells available.
Klytus 11-18-03, 04:51 PM	Originally posted by Shadowfax7 "As far as the other restriction, the one regarding spells gained at each new level, this is balanced out by the add'l spells that can be cast at each spell level" I fear I do not see that limitation as meanigfull either. If I tried to use that in my game, every Wizard would instantly want to be a Specialist - as would I. To my mind, a deal that is too good to refuse means that it is not balanced.
Shadowfax7 11-18-03, 07:27 PM	I see your point. It has worked in my campaign because the wizards roleplay their hindrance due to specialization, in that they substantially lack spells to cast from any other schools. I also only allow specialist wizards. I guess it depends on which specialist school you choose, since they would never gain any spells at each new level automatically from any other schools. :cool:
Crashy75 11-20-03, 04:15 PM	How about giving substantial penalties to All spells cast that are not of your specialist school. Perhaps at -1 level or at -1 DC....