Alternative to bardic music? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alternative to bardic music? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Bluebrush
02-25-06, 02:00 PM I like the concept of a bard character. Bards, after all, were the classic real life adventurers in medieval times.

However there's one sticking point for this class. The Bardic Music ability.

While a rousing song to lift the spirits of one's comerades is not outside the realms of imagination, I think making it something that works in all situations is kind of off-concept. And I can't escape the feeling that it makes being the bard a bit much like being a cheerleader with a sword. (Note to self: Future character concept.)

So I'm looking for ideas. Something that is more consistantly plausible than the music thing, but also effective. Preferably something which keeps with the support character role of the bard.
Another element would be allowing more character archetypes. As is, every bard is a performer. Without bardic music, the bard's skills, swords and spells could make him an excellent journalist, political entity, wandering scholar and all other sorts of ideas. But if you ignore the bardic music element, you lose some measure of power which makes the class unviable.

My ideas, so far.
1: Feats.
Replace each gaining of a bardic music feature with a feat. Selectable from a list of light-armour swashbuckler, magical and skill-based feats. Maybe with one or two exclusives.
PRO: Keeping with the "Wandering dabbler" concept. Allows for a wide variety of concepts.
CON: Loses the support role ability of the bard.

2: Expand on everything else a little.
Bump that hit die up to d8, 8 skill points per level, give the bard more spell slots, castable spells and a wider spell list (With more support spells) and maybe grant him some extra weapon proficiencies.
PRO: Like the current bard, only emphasising his current abilities.
CON: Unexciting list of class features.

Any more suggestions would be appreciated.
kinjojones
02-25-06, 02:11 PM I would allow for the bardic music ability to not just be musical in nature. For instance if your bard is a journalist and has perform:oratory as a class skill I'd allow him to use that instead of playing. Instead of stopping mid battle to pluck out a few verses of song he could give a rousing speech to inspire his comrades or even just a few quick witted jokes to lighten the mood.. Pretty much just every instance of the word "music" in the bard class I'd replace it with whatever perform skill the bard decided to put ranks in. Essentially changing bardic music into bardic performance.
Bluebrush
02-25-06, 02:30 PM I'm fairly sure that's already the case.
You can dance to inspire people for instance.
Or use Perform (Kazoo) for all the rules care.

But I just don't like the feel of the party bard singing or speaking every time there's a halfway difficult battle, if you see what I mean.
Imagine if Lord of the Rings played out with a bard in the party for instance, whipping out his lyre or giving a speech whenever there were orcs to be slain.

I get the concept, but I think the rallying performance is more something that you do on the eve of battle rather than right in the middle of it.
leopardmessiah
02-25-06, 07:04 PM I tend to agree with the OP for small scale battles (for proper warfare, bards with drums and massive horns seem quite natural) but prefer kinjojones selection. Of course it's harder to roleplay, but both less silly and more fun.
Eyeless Blond
02-25-06, 10:09 PM I'd sort of combine 1 and 2, myself. Give the bard one extra slot and spell known of each level, and make the bard songs into buff spells. This is a bit of a downgrade in power, so give bonus feats every five levels or so to compensate. That should do it, I think
Romanus_Mortus
02-26-06, 08:28 AM I had a player with a similar plaint once, and the way we resolved it was to switch up the flavor without altering the actual class. Instead of the bard actually *playing* the music (or singing or chanting or whatever), he was able to draw upon the spirit world (or your favorite equivalent in your own campaign). We still used the perform mechanic for his checks, since the class was a performer anyway in non-combat situations, but when combat erupted, he could choose instead to use his bardic music checks to call upon the spirits of fallen warriors, who would chant otherworldly hymns that could be heard over the din of battle. This ghost hymn functioned in all ways like bardic music does in combat, but instead of Mr Bard whipping out his lyre or humming a few bars, it instead evoked stirring "background music" sung by the spirits of past warriors.

(Imagine a chorus of the Duel of the Fates (or the Hymn of the Fayth from FFX if you prefer) mysteriously rising around you as you pound orc skull, and you've got an idea of the effect we were going for)

Not a mechanical fix, but another option you might consider.
Nephlite
02-26-06, 10:14 PM I'm fairly sure that's already the case.
You can dance to inspire people for instance.
Or use Perform (Kazoo) for all the rules care.

But I just don't like the feel of the party bard singing or speaking every time there's a halfway difficult battle, if you see what I mean.
Imagine if Lord of the Rings played out with a bard in the party for instance, whipping out his lyre or giving a speech whenever there were orcs to be slain.

I get the concept, but I think the rallying performance is more something that you do on the eve of battle rather than right in the middle of it.
Aragorn did give a speak while fighting: Maybe multi-classed into Bard?
"Not this day, this day we fight!"

That was bardic music as well as Pip singing at the castle.

The problem is if you allowed it in the eve: you would have to make it last hours or minutes equal to level.
Something to make it last long enough.

That would make the Bard more powerful. Too powerful? Maybe...you'd have to get rid of the concentrate while singing mechanic obviously.

Bards will like it, and I bet bards will all be a welcome addition to any party even more so.
Heck, make it lasts a minute/level after giving song or speech: lasts whole battle at low levels. (only half lasts more than 10 rounds).

This would be a great boost for the Bard.

Why not just do that instead of elminating it?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bluebrush 02-25-06, 02:00 PM	I like the concept of a bard character. Bards, after all, were the classic real life adventurers in medieval times. However there's one sticking point for this class. The Bardic Music ability. While a rousing song to lift the spirits of one's comerades is not outside the realms of imagination, I think making it something that works in all situations is kind of off-concept. And I can't escape the feeling that it makes being the bard a bit much like being a cheerleader with a sword. (Note to self: Future character concept.) So I'm looking for ideas. Something that is more consistantly plausible than the music thing, but also effective. Preferably something which keeps with the support character role of the bard. Another element would be allowing more character archetypes. As is, every bard is a performer. Without bardic music, the bard's skills, swords and spells could make him an excellent journalist, political entity, wandering scholar and all other sorts of ideas. But if you ignore the bardic music element, you lose some measure of power which makes the class unviable. My ideas, so far. 1: Feats. Replace each gaining of a bardic music feature with a feat. Selectable from a list of light-armour swashbuckler, magical and skill-based feats. Maybe with one or two exclusives. PRO: Keeping with the "Wandering dabbler" concept. Allows for a wide variety of concepts. CON: Loses the support role ability of the bard. 2: Expand on everything else a little. Bump that hit die up to d8, 8 skill points per level, give the bard more spell slots, castable spells and a wider spell list (With more support spells) and maybe grant him some extra weapon proficiencies. PRO: Like the current bard, only emphasising his current abilities. CON: Unexciting list of class features. Any more suggestions would be appreciated.
kinjojones 02-25-06, 02:11 PM	I would allow for the bardic music ability to not just be musical in nature. For instance if your bard is a journalist and has perform:oratory as a class skill I'd allow him to use that instead of playing. Instead of stopping mid battle to pluck out a few verses of song he could give a rousing speech to inspire his comrades or even just a few quick witted jokes to lighten the mood.. Pretty much just every instance of the word "music" in the bard class I'd replace it with whatever perform skill the bard decided to put ranks in. Essentially changing bardic music into bardic performance.
Bluebrush 02-25-06, 02:30 PM	I'm fairly sure that's already the case. You can dance to inspire people for instance. Or use Perform (Kazoo) for all the rules care. But I just don't like the feel of the party bard singing or speaking every time there's a halfway difficult battle, if you see what I mean. Imagine if Lord of the Rings played out with a bard in the party for instance, whipping out his lyre or giving a speech whenever there were orcs to be slain. I get the concept, but I think the rallying performance is more something that you do on the eve of battle rather than right in the middle of it.
leopardmessiah 02-25-06, 07:04 PM	I tend to agree with the OP for small scale battles (for proper warfare, bards with drums and massive horns seem quite natural) but prefer kinjojones selection. Of course it's harder to roleplay, but both less silly and more fun.
Eyeless Blond 02-25-06, 10:09 PM	I'd sort of combine 1 and 2, myself. Give the bard one extra slot and spell known of each level, and make the bard songs into buff spells. This is a bit of a downgrade in power, so give bonus feats every five levels or so to compensate. That should do it, I think
Romanus_Mortus 02-26-06, 08:28 AM	I had a player with a similar plaint once, and the way we resolved it was to switch up the flavor without altering the actual class. Instead of the bard actually playing the music (or singing or chanting or whatever), he was able to draw upon the spirit world (or your favorite equivalent in your own campaign). We still used the perform mechanic for his checks, since the class was a performer anyway in non-combat situations, but when combat erupted, he could choose instead to use his bardic music checks to call upon the spirits of fallen warriors, who would chant otherworldly hymns that could be heard over the din of battle. This ghost hymn functioned in all ways like bardic music does in combat, but instead of Mr Bard whipping out his lyre or humming a few bars, it instead evoked stirring "background music" sung by the spirits of past warriors. (Imagine a chorus of the Duel of the Fates (or the Hymn of the Fayth from FFX if you prefer) mysteriously rising around you as you pound orc skull, and you've got an idea of the effect we were going for) Not a mechanical fix, but another option you might consider.
Nephlite 02-26-06, 10:14 PM	I'm fairly sure that's already the case. You can dance to inspire people for instance. Or use Perform (Kazoo) for all the rules care. But I just don't like the feel of the party bard singing or speaking every time there's a halfway difficult battle, if you see what I mean. Imagine if Lord of the Rings played out with a bard in the party for instance, whipping out his lyre or giving a speech whenever there were orcs to be slain. I get the concept, but I think the rallying performance is more something that you do on the eve of battle rather than right in the middle of it. Aragorn did give a speak while fighting: Maybe multi-classed into Bard? "Not this day, this day we fight!" That was bardic music as well as Pip singing at the castle. The problem is if you allowed it in the eve: you would have to make it last hours or minutes equal to level. Something to make it last long enough. That would make the Bard more powerful. Too powerful? Maybe...you'd have to get rid of the concentrate while singing mechanic obviously. Bards will like it, and I bet bards will all be a welcome addition to any party even more so. Heck, make it lasts a minute/level after giving song or speech: lasts whole battle at low levels. (only half lasts more than 10 rounds). This would be a great boost for the Bard. Why not just do that instead of elminating it?