Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cirein Amakiir 04-06-05, 10:01 PM	I have recently started a new campaign and have a character that is abit...hard to kill. Through nonmagical means anyway. swashbuckler-3 warmage-3 Bladesinger-1(working on it) 10str 20dex 10con 10wis 18int 17cha (we play 84 pt chars) Currently...im using an elven thinblade as the rapier for my bladesinger...legal I think...it is supposed to be treated as one. Point being...my ac using weapon expertise/my defending thinblade+3/dodge/my dex-my chain shirt that allows +5 dex/bladesinger abilities/total defense ends up around 32 all counted...he still hits me on 20's, but I'm not sure if im being a pansy sitting around getting attacks back with defensive strike and casting spells. Im trying to roleplay the guy as a character from a novel im writing...and he kinda fits the theme, but (although he's supposed to be alot more powerful) kinda outsteps the other characters in survivability and the ability to soak up everything. And yes, there are plenty of instances in which I will lose whem I'm alone...such as mages. I can cast well, but darn it my hp isn't that great. (52) And enough spells will send me away quickly. (despite being a warmage i have trouble holding my own against other mages if i cant get into melee range)
DM Denubis 04-06-05, 10:49 PM	.... 84 points? Wow. Are we talking standard point buy here? Looking at your stats, I don't see how that's possible. I don't know why people make their own point buy systems... It's in the DMG for a reason... Anyhow, given the fact that you have a DM that says yes to 84 points, I don't think there's much he'd say no to. So no, this isn't really terrible. It's a lightweight gish, and a well-built one at that. But is it absolutely game-breaking? Not really, unless your DM is inexperienced, or your players aren't good at making efficient characters.
Candide 04-06-05, 10:52 PM	I didn't think you could use Combat Expertise and use the Total Defense Option. maybe I'm wrong. but something seems amiss among all the things you're adding in
psionichamster 04-06-05, 10:56 PM	meh...84 pts...from adding up the total scores? i assume the 17 is from your lvl 4 increase (as that would make you at 85 "pts") so you've got 2nd lvl warmage spells (lesser orbs i assume?) and a +5 (defending a +2 ability? or +3) at lvl 6 hmmm seems a bit overblown to me, but i generally stay a bit closer to the "low-power" label than otherwise are the others in the group similarly equipped? if so, then you are well within "norm" for that particular game if not, it's most likely the weapon that's really upping your defensive abilities...although a +3 shield and a +2 weapon would achieve the same effect (+5 ac), but sacrifice 1 pt of atk bonus and 1 pt of dmg... it doesn't sound cheesier than most characters ive seen on here...this one seems actually playable, too (long story short, check your $$$...is it out of line with the rest of the group? are your class abilities more than the rest of your party? if so, tone it down a bit, and i think you'll be set.) then again, if it aint broke, dont fix it namaste, the hamster [edit] You can’t combine total defense with fighting defensively or with the benefit of the Combat Expertise feat (since both of those require you to declare an attack or full attack).<snip> that puts you at about ac 28...assuming your other math is correct not incredible, even for a 6th lvl dex-gish h
Thorak 04-06-05, 11:03 PM	.... 84 points? Wow. Are we talking standard point buy here? Looking at your stats, I don't see how that's possible. I don't know why people make their own point buy systems... It's in the DMG for a reason.... I believe it's 84 points split between all the stats, not 84-point buy. If you add his abilities up, it adds to 85, and he's level 7, meaning he's gotten one +1 to an ability. If it were point-buy, he could make the same character (assuming a +2 dex race) with a 40-point buy. Still really high, but not absolutely ridiculous. With 84-point buy, you could make a character with 2 18s and 4 17s. I don't think your character's over the top; my current character has an AC of 27, and he's level 8, and doesn't really have enough gear for his level. And he's got an attack bonus of +15, which should be 1 point higher, because he's a Kensai and hasn't used his latest level's enhancement yet (no time in the campaign to do so). He's only a level higher, and he'd be able to hit you with a 17+, that's 20% of the time. And he ain't optimised for to-hit; the barbarian hits a whole lot easier than I do.
Willie the Duck 04-06-05, 11:14 PM	Remember that a character that uses expertise and defending weapons gains AC at the expense of never hitting when they counter-attack. AC only protects against attacks, so unless your saves are great, you still can be taken down. Also note that highly defensive character loses out because merely surviving isn't enough to effectively contribute to the party.
mermin_8403 04-07-05, 12:10 AM	That AC isn't so crazy, my lvl 6 druid could beat that pretty easy, and he was a 30 point buy (Druids rock in point buy). Of course I'm using the broken Vow of Poverty. But I could fairly easily achieve 29 AC with all enemies who attack me in melee taking a -4 penalty, and my full attack is Claw/Claw/Bite/Tail. And, if I charge, a rake as well. And I have an animal companion doing nearly the same thing. with buffs, he's got an AC of 30, with the penalty to his attackers. This AC isn't crazy yet. you need to get an amulet of natural armor and a ring of protection before it becomes crazy.
Elthbert 04-07-05, 01:24 AM	.... 84 points? Wow. Are we talking standard point buy here? Looking at your stats, I don't see how that's possible. I don't know why people make their own point buy systems... It's in the DMG for a reason... Anyhow, given the fact that you have a DM that says yes to 84 points, I don't think there's much he'd say no to. So no, this isn't really terrible. It's a lightweight gish, and a well-built one at that. But is it absolutely game-breaking? Not really, unless your DM is inexperienced, or your players aren't good at making efficient characters. Okay I am going to make a shocking statment here maybe, just maybe he rolled his stats on dice. Now, now guys lets not be to shocked there are still people out there who roll dice during character creation. Seriously, am I the last Dm who makes his players roll their stats-- I am so sick of hearing about point buys it just makes me sick, If you want a perfectly balanced system go play white wolf, D&D still has some of the randomness of real life in it, why is everyone so desperate to get rid of it.
scout989 04-07-05, 02:18 AM	Uh, Elth- look again, it says in his post he uses an 84 point system. BTW I agree- I still prefer rolling dice to create a character.
Philip 04-07-05, 03:18 AM	If someone successfully feints you, or if you are caught flat footed, or attacked my an invisible creature you lose alot of that defense. I think it is a one sided character made just to take advantage of several synergies among character and prestege characters, which may lead to some tricky situations where some challenges to the rest of the party are nothing to you, and some situations where your character is viturally powerless.
Razoreface 04-07-05, 03:48 AM	If someone successfully feints you, or if you are caught flat footed, or attacked my an invisible creature you lose alot of that defense. And with that prodigious lack of constitution for a melee fighter.. killing you is not hard.
Elthbert 04-07-05, 09:58 AM	Uh, Elth- look again, it says in his post he uses an 84 point system. BTW I agree- I still prefer rolling dice to create a character. Alright I missed that, don't I look foolish-- I will go retreat to the corner and sulk at the death of rolling up characters. Those of you who still do I salute you.
Lusiphur 04-07-05, 12:03 PM	Thanks for the salute, elthbert, i too prefer the rolling of stats... Anywho, i dont think your character is overpowered at all. he's got a high AC versus fighters... thats his niche in the party. there are still a LOT of other ways to kill him, in combat alone (without getting into underhanded sneaky ways like while you are sleeping :P) I DMed a game with a somewhat similar problem, while the rest of my players were busy buying their way to +5s and the like, there was one character who spent most of his money on wings of flying, those crazy magic pigments, a portable hole, etc. Large amounts of stuff that really CAN be well-nigh on the level of gamebreaking IF you are a creative person. I loved watching him come up with answers to a large percentage of things i threw before them, with options i hadnt even thought of. Keeps a DM on his toes and i like that. Meanwhile the rest sit back with their +5 Flaming Keen whatevers and go "we are so inferior..." Well they werent inferior, they just werent quite as smart with their money. The point being, i dont think your character is cheese, you've just found what youre character is good at and you do it well. Keep it up!
Sinon 04-07-05, 01:03 PM	I love rolling stats. There are two kinds of cheesy. Cheesy compared to some objective, universal standard that establishes the proper way to play. (Easy answer: There is no objective, universal standard, no matter what anyone tries to say. Don’t buy into the myth!) Then there is cheesy within your group. One guy trying to power-play can really make the whole experience trying for the rest of the guys if they aren’t. Only you can know the answer to that question, but it doesn’t look that way to me. I am sure your DM can challenge you without wasting the entire rest of the party. In addition, when you put everything you have into defense, you can’t be so effective in combat that you leave everyone else with nothing to do. I think it is a nice character build with a cool style.
RadicalTaoist 04-07-05, 02:13 PM	This is far from cheesy. I'd have no qualms with it whatsoever in my games. It's hard to make a cheesy gish at the low to mid levels.
Cirein Amakiir 04-07-05, 08:44 PM	Alright, thanks guys. And its a +3 defending thinblade, not 5. Aside from that andmy armor i don't have any other real equipment...what im worried about is when I do. And im not soooo bad offensively. 1d8+3 +4 for int(swashbuckler) its only +7, but it stacks with warmage edge and nets +4 to my spell damage as well. I also have a tendancy to stick myself in a position where the opponents can't really ignore me...taunting, persuading, etc. My way into the leader's area and make him fight me. Sometimes 1v1...hopefully, most of the time not. But its rare im completely ignored.