Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Remnant 05-14-04, 11:18 PM	I have, on both these boards and in conversations with other DMs, had them complain to me about archers taking 5' steps and full attacking when faced with melee opponents. Honestly, I completely fail to see the issue. Say: A=archer (goes first), (speed 30ft) M=meleeist (speed 20ft), 5ft reach X=nothing 1) AXXXXXXXXXXM Range 55ft. A= Full attack, 5ft. step back M= Double move, 40ft. Result: M probably takes damage. A is unharmed. 2) AXXXM Range 20ft. A= Full attack, 5ft. step back (Increasing range to 25ft) M= Charge A. Result: M probably takes damage. A likely takes damage from a single attack. Now, this is where the logic is breaking down for me, when other DMs are describing their problem: 3) AX A=5ft. step, full attack M=5ft. step, full attack Result: Archer delivers full attack. Melee delivers full attack. Melee likely does significantly more damage. Now, to me, the logical thing for an archer to do would be to make a move action, and deliver a multi shot, or even a regular attack, depending on the AC of M. If A is afraid of the AoO, do this in round 2, or use a withdraw action and get out of charge range, since it is likely that A has better movement, and keep M at arms length. The way other DMs are describing their problem is that the archer is able to routinely deliver a full attack, and use the 5ft step to deny the meleeist to return in kind. The only thing I can think of is that the DMs in question just have a rather poor grasp of the 5ft step rule, or they're sending monsters against the archer with out the AC or HP to survive the first two rounds. The scenario above even favors the archer- if the meleeist is faster, like a barbarian or monk, or the archer is wearing heavy armor, or the meleeist has reach, the archer will not be able to keep out of range and maintain an effective attack. My question is- am I missing something? Are these other DMs seeing something I am blind to? Because I really don't see a problem here
Thorak 05-15-04, 12:05 AM	What I think other DMs are talking about is that ranged attacks are supposed to provoke AoOs. And by taking a 5' step, the archer can practically be in melee, while not provoking any AoOs while making full attacks. It's not that it denies the melee attacker his full attack, but that it denies the melee attacker the AoOs that bothers them. But a smart Melee fighter just does something like Sundering the bow instead of just attacking. Most bows are pretty fragile. Or tripping the bowman, and abusing trip for all it's worth. Or disarming him. Or readying an action to sunder the bow if he takes a 5' step back. (That'd be neat. Archer takes a 5' step back, and the melee fighter shatters his bow. So he quickdraws his sword (if he doesn't have quickdraw, he's not going to get an attack at all), and steps back in for a single attack (since he's now moved 10 feet and used a move action to do so). Fighter proceeds to whup the living bejeepers out of him. Or strategically take your 5' steps. And push the archer next to a wall or obstacle. I could go on. A ranged fighter's only advantage is range. They can survive in close-combat against stupid opponents, but a smart one will tear them apart.