Post/Author/DateTime	Post
NightOwl 01-16-07, 09:17 PM	On almost every Warlock thread I've seen, everyone says to take Ability Focus from the Monster Manual to add +2 DC to the Eldritch Blast saving throw. Why? Eldritch Blast does not have a saving throw.
Nephlite 01-16-07, 09:21 PM	On almost every Warlock thread I've seen, everyone says to take Ability Focus from the Monster Manual to add +2 DC to the Eldritch Blast saving throw. Why? Eldritch Blast does not have a saving throw. But invocations you add to EB do. So it is assumed. If A has no save but you add to +2 DC to it. Than You add B to A which does have save since A is being used with B you get the +2 DC. If this is the correct process than it works.
Oliver D'Argent 01-16-07, 09:52 PM	To expand on Nephlite's post: Although the basic Eldritch Blast has no saving throw, there are several blast shapes and eldritch essences that do. Since any blast shape and/or eldritch essence that is added to the basic Eldritch Blast becomes part of it, taking Ability Focus (Eldritch Blast) will add to the save DC of any blast that requires a save.
NightOwl 01-16-07, 09:59 PM	That makes sense to me. I guess the thing I'm missing is that any of the Blast Shapes and Eldritch Essense's I'm planning on do not have saves. Anyone have a suggestion to a replacement feat? What I'm planning on so far is... (Strongheart Halfling) L1 Bonus racial feat - Point Blank Shot L1 - Precise Shot L3 - Ability Focus (EB) - leaning more toward Imp Crit or Weapon Focus now L6 - Spell Penetration L9 - Gr. Spell Penetration L12 - Maximize SLA L15 - Craft Staff / Rod / Wondrous Item (haven't decided yet) L18 - Extra Invocation
Oliver D'Argent 01-16-07, 10:20 PM	That makes sense to me. I guess the thing I'm missing is that any of the Blast Shapes and Eldritch Essense's I'm planning on do not have saves. Anyone have a suggestion to a replacement feat? What I'm planning on so far is... (Strongheart Halfling) L1 Bonus racial feat - Point Blank Shot L1 - Precise Shot L3 - Ability Focus (EB) - leaning more toward Imp Crit or Weapon Focus now L6 - Spell Penetration L9 - Gr. Spell Penetration L12 - Maximize SLA L15 - Craft Staff / Rod / Wondrous Item (haven't decided yet) L18 - Extra Invocation Improved Critical won't be available to you at that level - it requires a +8 Base Attack Bonus, which Warlocks don't get until 11th level. Don't forget about other useful feats like Alertness, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Magical Aptitude, and any of the Save-boosting feats.
OutlawJT 01-16-07, 11:24 PM	Improved Critical won't be available to you at that level - it requires a +8 Base Attack Bonus, which Warlocks don't get until 11th level. Don't forget about other useful feats like Alertness, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Magical Aptitude, and any of the Save-boosting feats. Why take Improved Crit for an ability that doesn't offer Crit damage? I can't find anywhere in the book where it mentions the crit range/damage for the Eldritch Blast. I'd think the same rule that applies to spells applies here. Spells don't offer a crit chance so I don't believe the Eldritch Blast does either.
runestar 01-16-07, 11:26 PM	Eldritch blast crits on a natural 20, the same way rays and any other spell which requires an attack roll, such as scorching ray crits on a natural 20. This is to offset the fact that they auto-fail on a natural one.:)
Krusk 01-16-07, 11:43 PM	I believe rays and such critting was an added rule in 3.0, but i don't think it carried over to 3.5
Salla 01-16-07, 11:44 PM	Eldritch blast crits on a natural 20, the same way rays and any other spell which requires an attack roll, such as scorching ray crits on a natural 20. This is to offset the fact that they auto-fail on a natural one.:) What he said. Any spell that inflicts damage and requires a to-hit roll can deal critical damage (20/x2).
enlightened 01-17-07, 03:18 AM	I believe rays and such critting was an added rule in 3.0, but i don't think it carried over to 3.5 Look at the last paragraph on page 140 of the PHB 3.5
mittenninja 01-17-07, 03:20 AM	what he said.
Krusk 01-17-07, 03:45 AM	Must be something we houserules out then.
Nezkrul 01-17-07, 09:39 AM	if you take vitriolic blast as one of your greaters, you wont need spell pen. and greater spell pen. weapon focus is pretty much garbage for a ranged touch attack. improved crit (ranged spell) is pretty good for Eldritch Blast. Precise Shot is really good. If you can buy yourself a greater chausable of fel power, then I suggest taking (if you must) craft staff since you can use/make any spell into a staff. If you can't buy a chausable and must make one yourself to get it, craft wonderous - it's just to valuable a magic item to not get for your warlock. Instead of Maximize Spell Like Ability (blah), I suggest Quicken or Twin (or both) instead.
NightOwl 01-17-07, 08:17 PM	if you take vitriolic blast as one of your greaters, you wont need spell pen. and greater spell pen.Fair enough. I'll have to take a closer look at my invocations to see if any really need those feats. weapon focus is pretty much garbage for a ranged touch attack. improved crit (ranged spell) is pretty good for Eldritch Blast. Precise Shot is really good. If you can buy yourself a greater chausable of fel power, then I suggest taking (if you must) craft staff since you can use/make any spell into a staff. If you can't buy a chausable and must make one yourself to get it, craft wonderous - it's just to valuable a magic item to not get for your warlock. Instead of Maximize Spell Like Ability (blah), I suggest Quicken or Twin (or both) instead.As for quicken SLA, could I potentially be throwing out two eldritch blasts a round 3/day? Imp Init might be useful enough to move out of harms way and get that first shot in.
Pallin Rahl 01-18-07, 12:08 PM	Instead of Maximize Spell Like Ability (blah), I suggest Quicken or Twin (or both) instead. Where can one find Twin SLA?
WinterPsionic 01-18-07, 01:22 PM	Don't know what you hadve access to but I took Luck of Heroes at first level (+1 to all saves and +1 AC is nice) and Imp Init(It sucks getting caught flatfooted, even with the DR). SR and GSR are nice until you can get Vitrolic and even after if you don't eant everything to be acid. Ability Focus(EB) is nice if your considering Utterdark Blast or Eldritch Cone/Doom. For personal flavor I also took some of the Fey Heritage feats though it's more flavor then Power Build(though the increased DR is nice). Where can one find Twin SLA? Doesn't seem to be an official WOTC book so it may be Dragon or another third party publication...not that it helps much...
Nezkrul 01-18-07, 03:08 PM	Twin is homebrew; just ask your DM: hey can I take Twin Spell Like Ability for my eldritch blast? it'll have the same eligibility as quicken does in the MM? if he says yes, you're golden 3/day for twin blasts :D
Cael 01-18-07, 03:11 PM	Don't know what you hadve access to but I took Luck of Heroes at first level (+1 to all saves and +1 AC is nice) and Imp Init(It sucks getting caught flatfooted, even with the DR). SR and GSR are nice until you can get Vitrolic and even after if you don't eant everything to be acid. There is really no drawback to Vitriolic Blast. Any acid immunes just prevent the special effects. They still get plastered by the normal EB damage, which now still bypass SR.
Mr_Teapot 01-18-07, 03:34 PM	If the Book of Vile Darkness is allowed, Mortalbane is an invaluable feat for a blaster warlock. Adds +2d6 damage against living things, 5x/day.
NightOwl 01-18-07, 04:32 PM	If the Book of Vile Darkness is allowed, Mortalbane is an invaluable feat for a blaster warlock. Adds +2d6 damage against living things, 5x/day.That would be nice but my DM houseruled that BoVD cannot be used if your PC is good aligned (and vice versa for BoED). My Warlock is CG going for a single level dip into The Enlightened Spirit then continuing as Warlock.
Oliver D'Argent 01-18-07, 07:13 PM	There is really no drawback to Vitriolic Blast. Any acid immunes just prevent the special effects. They still get plastered by the normal EB damage, which now still bypass SR. That is not correct. Vitriolic Blast changes all the damage to acid damage, making it useless against acid-immune creatures.
WinterPsionic 01-18-07, 07:24 PM	That is not correct. Vitriolic Blast changes all the damage to acid damage, making it useless against acid-immune creatures. Hmmm that's what I thought, went back to re-read the essences section to make sure I didn't miss anything. While Acid is nice I prefer some variety and in those cases I need to bypass SR...is the a metamagic feat for SLA similiar to energy substitution? or does it work with SLA's.... *Jumps into his pile of books*
Cael 01-18-07, 07:27 PM	That is not correct. Vitriolic Blast changes all the damage to acid damage, making it useless against acid-immune creatures. Read the Warlock's Essence thing again. It specifically says that the Eldritch Blast does its normal damage *in addition* to the stuff detailed in the Essence entry. It is one of the few things that NWN2 got right with the Warlock (and half its other features/feats implementation).
WinterPsionic 01-18-07, 07:47 PM	Read the Warlock's Essence thing again. It specifically says that the Eldritch Blast does its normal damage *in addition* to the stuff detailed in the Essence entry. It is one of the few things that NWN2 got right with the Warlock (and half its other features/feats implementation). Maybe you should read the Vitrolic Blast description agian...it SPECIFICALLY states it changes EB in VB and that VB does Acid Damage, for things like Frightful, Sickening, Beshadowed, etc you'd be right, the damage ones work under a different precedent however
Cael 01-18-07, 07:53 PM	Maybe you should read the Vitrolic Blast description agian...it SPECIFICALLY states it changes EB in VB and that VB does Acid Damage, for things like Frightful, Sickening, Beshadowed, etc you'd be right, the damage ones work under a different precedent however Allow me to quote the Complete Arcane, page 8: "... If a warlock targets a creature with an eldritch blast that has immunity to the invocation's effect, it will still take damage from the blast normally (provided it isn't also immune the the eldritch blast)." An acid immune creature still takes EB damage, unless it is also immune to spell-like abilities (e.g., in a AMS effect).
NightOwl 01-18-07, 07:59 PM	Nice, I totally missed that. Another question I have and I've seen it hashed and re-hashed on here but no conclusion. What is the duration for Entropic Warding? My DM houseruled 24 hours but I'm wondering if anyone has seen a ruling from either Rich Baker or WotC?
Cael 01-18-07, 08:08 PM	Nice, I totally missed that. Another question I have and I've seen it hashed and re-hashed on here but no conclusion. What is the duration for Entropic Warding? My DM houseruled 24 hours but I'm wondering if anyone has seen a ruling from either Rich Baker or WotC? No idea on that one. Not that it really matters. Because of the way Invocations work, you can just tell the DM, "Unless I say otherwise, I spend a round every so often bringing the shield up." It is more a slight annoyance factor than anything else to have durations on an unlimited casting effect. That said, NWN2 set it at 1 minute/level.
WinterPsionic 01-19-07, 01:37 PM	Allow me to quote the Complete Arcane, page 8: "... If a warlock targets a creature with an eldritch blast that has immunity to the invocation's effect, it will still take damage from the blast normally (provided it isn't also immune the the eldritch blast)." An acid immune creature still takes EB damage, unless it is also immune to spell-like abilities (e.g., in a AMS effect). Hmmm well I don't want to keep arguing this but I will say nice snip job... Some of a warlock's invocations, such as frightful blast, modify the damage or other effects of the warlock's eldritch blast. There are called eldritch essense invocations. Unless noted otherwise, eldritch blasts modified by eldritch essence invocations deal damage normally on addition to imparting the effects described in the invocation description. Then for Vitrolic Blast This eldritch essence invocation allows you to change your eldritch blast into avitrolic blast. A vitrolic blast deals acid damage, and it is formed from conjured acid, making it different from other eldritch essences because it ignores spell resistance. Creatures struck by...(the rest doesn't matter for this issue) So a target hit by Vitrolic Blast that is immune to acid would take NO damage from the blast.
Witch 01-19-07, 01:41 PM	Allow me to quote the Complete Arcane, page 8: "... If a warlock targets a creature with an eldritch blast that has immunity to the invocation's effect, it will still take damage from the blast normally (provided it isn't also immune the the eldritch blast)." An acid immune creature still takes EB damage, unless it is also immune to spell-like abilities (e.g., in a AMS effect). Nice try of misinterpreting. You know just as well as anyone that by "effect" they mean effects such as "frightened" and similar. There's no need to abuse the rules.
ruff0126 01-19-07, 01:49 PM	If your dm will let you try to get supernatural transformation it will allow you to ignore sr and I think not provoke aoo's. The warlock thread from rich baker says no but most dm's say yes.
nighttree 01-19-07, 09:22 PM	HHmmmmm......Spellfire Warlock........:plotting:
Oliver D'Argent 01-19-07, 10:38 PM	Allow me to quote the Complete Arcane, page 8: "... If a warlock targets a creature with an eldritch blast that has immunity to the invocation's effect, it will still take damage from the blast normally (provided it isn't also immune the the eldritch blast)." An acid immune creature still takes EB damage, unless it is also immune to spell-like abilities (e.g., in a AMS effect). That passage does not apply to Brimstone Blast, Hellrime Blast and Vitriolic Blast. Those three invocations change the type of damage that the blast does rather than simply adding a special effect. What is the duration for Entropic Warding? My DM houseruled 24 hours but I'm wondering if anyone has seen a ruling from either Rich Baker or WotC? Since the description of Entropic Warding does not specify a different duration, the proper way to determine the duration for this invocation is to apply the durations of the different effects separately - 1 minute/level for the Entropic Shield effect and 1 hour/level for the Pass Without Trace effect.
Cael 01-21-07, 03:10 PM	Nice try of misinterpreting. You know just as well as anyone that by "effect" they mean effects such as "frightened" and similar. There's no need to abuse the rules. Correct. The Vitrolic Blast does have an effect. It makes people sickened, I think, on a failed save. Thus, that effect is ignored if the guy is immune to acid. The blast *damage* itself, however, is untouched. The only one misinterpreting things is you, I'm afraid.
mittenninja 01-21-07, 03:24 PM	Correct. The Vitrolic Blast does have an effect. It makes people sickened, I think, on a failed save. Thus, that effect is ignored if the guy is immune to acid. The blast *damage* itself, however, is untouched. The only one misinterpreting things is you, I'm afraid. How does being immune to acid make you unable to become sickened?
Erato 01-21-07, 04:57 PM	Correct. The Vitrolic Blast does have an effect. It makes people sickened, I think, on a failed save. Thus, that effect is ignored if the guy is immune to acid. The blast *damage* itself, however, is untouched. The only one misinterpreting things is you, I'm afraid. Vitriolic blast has no other effect than changing the blast to conjured acid (to pass through SR) and deal 2d6 extra damage the following rounds. But even if it did, what on earth (or faerun, whatever) makes you think that creatures immune to acid would be immune to a secondary effect but still take the damage from the (acid) blast :confused: , instead of the other way around?
Oliver D'Argent 01-21-07, 05:26 PM	Correct. The Vitrolic Blast does have an effect. It makes people sickened, I think, on a failed save. Thus, that effect is ignored if the guy is immune to acid. The blast *damage* itself, however, is untouched. The only one misinterpreting things is you, I'm afraid. Vitriolic Blast does not have a save - you are thinking of Sickening Blast. Vitriolic Blast changes all of the damage caused from untyped magical energy damage to Acid damage - creatures that are immune or resistant to Acid damage take either no damage or have the total damage reduced by the amount of their resistance (which could still result in no damage, depending on the amount of resistance and the total damage rolled). Sickening Blast, however, does not change the type of damage caused by the Eldritch Blast - it simply adds a special effect in addition to the damage caused by the blast. If you were to hit a creature with a Sickening Blast that was immune to the Sickening effect (such as Undead or Constructs), it would indeed still take damage from the blast. To sum up; if the eldritch essence you apply changes the type of damage caused by the Eldritch Blast, then the passage you quoted earlier does not apply. If the eldritch essence you apply does not change the type of damage caused by the Eldritch Blast (adding only a special effect), then the passage you quoted earlier does apply.
Cael 01-21-07, 07:31 PM	Vitriolic Blast does not have a save - you are thinking of Sickening Blast. Vitriolic Blast changes all of the damage caused from untyped magical energy damage to Acid damage - creatures that are immune or resistant to Acid damage take either no damage or have the total damage reduced by the amount of their resistance (which could still result in no damage, depending on the amount of resistance and the total damage rolled). Sickening Blast, however, does not change the type of damage caused by the Eldritch Blast - it simply adds a special effect in addition to the damage caused by the blast. If you were to hit a creature with a Sickening Blast that was immune to the Sickening effect (such as Undead or Constructs), it would indeed still take damage from the blast. To sum up; if the eldritch essence you apply changes the type of damage caused by the Eldritch Blast, then the passage you quoted earlier does not apply. If the eldritch essence you apply does not change the type of damage caused by the Eldritch Blast (adding only a special effect), then the passage you quoted earlier does apply. I mixed it up with Acid Orb, actually. That's what you get from doing it off the top of your head. From what I can see, acid immunity would make the guy immune to the extra 2d6 damage, which would be the acid component, and not the rest of the Eldritch Blast, which is the normal component. I have always read the essence to deal *extra* acid damage, not make all the damage from the acid. The rest of the blast is still force or concussion from the impact or whatever. By the way, since we have so many Warlock experts running around, would it be unbalancing to give the Warlock 4 (or even 6) skill points per level, and add Diplomacy to the list of Warlock skills?
WinterPsionic 01-22-07, 12:58 PM	I mixed it up with Acid Orb, actually. That's what you get from doing it off the top of your head. From what I can see, acid immunity would make the guy immune to the extra 2d6 damage, which would be the acid component, and not the rest of the Eldritch Blast, which is the normal component. I have always read the essence to deal *extra* acid damage, not make all the damage from the acid. The rest of the blast is still force or concussion from the impact or whatever. By the way, since we have so many Warlock experts running around, would it be unbalancing to give the Warlock 4 (or even 6) skill points per level, and add Diplomacy to the list of Warlock skills? Skillpoints and Dip....probably not..... Back to Vitrolic Blast... This eldritch essence invocation allows you to change your eldritch blast into a vitrolic blast. A vitrolic blast deals acid damage, and it is formed from conjured acid, making it different from other eldritch essences because it ignores spell resistance. Creatures struck by...(the rest doesn't matter for this issue) Is there something unclear about that passage.... Eldritch Blasts TURNS INTO Vitrolic Blast(Eldritch Blast is NO MORE) Vitrolic Blasts deals ACID DAMAGE....as it says it is formed out of conjured ACID.
Oliver D'Argent 01-22-07, 09:01 PM	From what I can see, acid immunity would make the guy immune to the extra 2d6 damage, which would be the acid component, and not the rest of the Eldritch Blast, which is the normal component. I have always read the essence to deal *extra* acid damage, not make all the damage from the acid. The rest of the blast is still force or concussion from the impact or whatever. You are reading it wrong. Eldritch Blasts TURNS INTO Vitrolic Blast(Eldritch Blast is NO MORE) Vitrolic Blasts deals ACID DAMAGE....as it says it is formed out of conjured ACID. Personally, I wouldn't say that it is no longer an Eldritch Blast, but rather that the Vitriolic Blast essence fundamentally changes the nature of the damage. (To Cael again) Similarly, the descriptions of Brimstone Blast, Hellrime Blast and Utterdark Blast read respectively: "A Brimstone Blast deals fire damage." "A Hellrime Blast deals cold damage." and "An Utterdark Blast deals negative energy damage." As I (and others) have already stated, ALL of the damage is changed to the listed type, so any immunities or resistances apply to ALL of the damage.
WinterPsionic 01-22-07, 09:33 PM	Personally, I wouldn't say that it is no longer an Eldritch Blast, but rather that the Vitriolic Blast essence fundamentally changes the nature of the damage. Similarly, the descriptions of Brimstone Blast, Hellrime Blast and Utterdark Blast read respectively: "A Brimstone Blast deals fire damage." "A Hellrime Blast deals cold damage." and "An Utterdark Blast deals negative energy damage." As I (and others) have already stated, ALL of the damage is changed to the listed type, so any immunities or resistances apply to ALL of the damage. Ok well I was just saying that for purposes of the arguement, and while it retains fewer similarities then it looses I would for all intensive purposes no longer refer to it as an Eldritch Blast. Either way hopefully th points been made by at least 1 of us.
Oliver D'Argent 01-22-07, 09:54 PM	(Check my last edit, WinterPsionic - most of that last part was intended for Cael.) To add another voice to the discussion: Page 17 of the 12/20/06 FAQ What kind of damage does the Warlock’s Eldritch Blast deal? Does damage reduction or resistance or immunity to energy protect against the blast? In its basic form, the Eldritch Blast’s damage has no type. Since it is a spell-like ability, damage reduction does not protect against the Eldritch Blast. Since it does not deal energy damage, resistance or immunity to energy has no effect on the Eldritch Blast’s damage. Certain eldritch essence invocations change the type of damage dealt by the Eldritch Blast. For example, Brimstone Blast makes the Eldritch Blast deal fire damage, which means that resistance or immunity to fire would apply against this Eldritch Blast’s damage (as would vulnerability to fire, such as that possessed by a frost giant).
Anguish2 01-22-07, 10:03 PM	Why take Improved Crit for an ability that doesn't offer Crit damage? I can't find anywhere in the book where it mentions the crit range/damage for the Eldritch Blast. I'd think the same rule that applies to spells applies here. Spells don't offer a crit chance so I don't believe the Eldritch Blast does either. As per the SRD on the topic of critical hits... Spells and Critical Hits: A spell that requires an attack roll can score a critical hit. A spell attack that requires no attack roll cannot score a critical hit. Given that the Eldritch Blast is a (Sp) I'd treat it exactly like a ray. Ranged touch is required, therefore the EB can crit for double damage.
Cael 01-23-07, 09:42 PM	(Check my last edit, WinterPsionic - most of that last part was intended for Cael.) To add another voice to the discussion: Page 17 of the 12/20/06 FAQ What kind of damage does the Warlock’s Eldritch Blast deal? Does damage reduction or resistance or immunity to energy protect against the blast? In its basic form, the Eldritch Blast’s damage has no type. Since it is a spell-like ability, damage reduction does not protect against the Eldritch Blast. Since it does not deal energy damage, resistance or immunity to energy has no effect on the Eldritch Blast’s damage. Certain eldritch essence invocations change the type of damage dealt by the Eldritch Blast. For example, Brimstone Blast makes the Eldritch Blast deal fire damage, which means that resistance or immunity to fire would apply against this Eldritch Blast’s damage (as would vulnerability to fire, such as that possessed by a frost giant). Thanks for the FAQ quote. That is what I have been looking for.
StarFire13 01-23-07, 11:58 PM	I found this link concerning a Halfling Rogue using the sniping ability under the hide skill... http://www.cayzle.com/screeds/book036.html I was wondering if anyone has thought of adapting a similar tactic to a Warlock build...and if so what would you make it look like?
Oliver D'Argent 01-24-07, 07:45 AM	Thanks for the FAQ quote. That is what I have been looking for. Happy to be of assistance.