Post/Author/DateTime	Post
I'm not a fanatic 11-24-06, 01:12 AM	I think favored enemy is really limited, and while Rangers really aren't bad anyways... I was thinking maybe something along the lines of limited sneak attack damage. I think this is reasonable considering they already have Hide and move silently. Thoughts?
periscope 11-24-06, 01:21 AM	Might make the ranger and rogue a little to similar. I mean it does step on their toes a little bit. How about if you increased the favored enemy bonuses? In my games we've ruled that all your bonuses automatically gain a +2 to them whenever you gain a new favored enemy (your first one improves to a +4 when you get a second favored enemy, when you gain the third its now +6, +4, +2 etc.).
red_scare87 11-24-06, 02:28 AM	I think that as a ranger goes up in level he gains special abilities against his favored enemies to make it more interesting. Instead of just the bonuses, he should get to choose other special abilities just for those favored enemies. For example, he could gain a limited sneak attack for one of his favored enemies as well as gaining the bonus. Another idea is that he doubles crit threat range against his favored enemy. There's limitless potential, really.
Krevon 11-24-06, 02:31 AM	The bnous listed isn't just attack and damage based. There are several skill that it gives the bonus to. So its really up to you and the dm how to bring that to bear in the game. Dosent' always need to be a rule change....just an addition to how you play your character.
levitation 11-24-06, 02:34 AM	it really depends on how well you know your dm, my dm loves undead armies and enjoys throwing them at us...:P there is a downside if you chose favored enemy (orcs) and you are about to fight hobgoblins, I just go for humans as my favored enemy, hey it makes role playing very interesting!:D
VonRichthofen 11-24-06, 03:44 AM	The bnous listed isn't just attack and damage based. You are aware of the fact that Favored Enemy bonuses do NOT count towards your attack roll, right?
VonRichthofen 11-24-06, 03:49 AM	I think favored enemy is really limited, and while Rangers really aren't bad anyways... I was thinking maybe something along the lines of limited sneak attack damage. I think this is reasonable considering they already have Hide and move silently. Thoughts? I am with WotC in this. They don't advocate passing "core competences/class features" to other classes. If you give a full-BAB class Sneak Attack, that just makes the rogue less desireable. The UA fighter variant can be considered vaguely reasonable, since it is the one and only class feature it gets. I don't think it will break the game - but be prepared to advertise your party's free rogue job a little louder than before. :D
Bopple 11-24-06, 05:57 AM	I like the concept of Favored Enemy. But it's not good enough, I think. Ranger must be the best combatant against the favored enemies, imo. However, his damage is worse than rogue's, even against his primary favored enemy, let alone secondary enemies. There is something wrong with this, imo.
VonRichthofen 11-24-06, 07:53 AM	However, his damage is worse than rogue's, even against his primary favored enemy, let alone secondary enemies. There is something wrong with this, imo. You are sure that a ranger with Favored Enemy: Undead, Elemental, Plant & Construct causes less damage against those than his rogue buddy? I'd wager that's not gonna happen anytime soon. Apart from that, your "best against favored enemies" has been done in 1st Edition AD&D - and it was a big problem, for anything vaguely humanoid, from Xvart to Titan, was cut down like barley by high-level rangers. In a time where 1d10+13 was about as high as PC damage output would get (fighter with Str 18/00, Weapon Specialization & Two-Handed Sword +5), a Ranger that caused +20 damage per hit was an unbalancing factor par excellence. Campaigns tended to drop most humanoid encounters, since the ranger simply killed them off too easily. So I guess the balance issue is about right, a ranger with Improved Favored Enemy can still cause considerable damage to his chosen foe. Rangers simply are no longer the prime front-line bashers. They can take the role, but there are others better suited - and that's allright from my point of view, Favored Enemy or not.
SilvercatMoonpaw 11-24-06, 08:06 AM	I always thought that favored enemy was sort of an odd thing to be only a class feature (however, I should mention I no longer care for the class-level system of D&D, so ignore me as you like). Seems more like a feat anyone sould be able to take. In fact the entire ranger class feels a bit cobbled together, with bits of mostly fighter, and hints of druid and rogue. Several Unearthed Arcana variants, such as the Wilderness Rogue and the barbarian that looses rage for favored enemy and combat style, would fit the archtype much better without the baggage of the animal companion and spells. Heck, take the Scout form Complete Adventuer and just smack the name Ranger on it. UA also has the Favored Environment variant feature, so if you want to make your ranger a master of a certain type of terrain rather than an enemy you can. But none of this may be what you want. I'm having trouble helping you fix Favored Enemy rather than drop it, since all you've said is "it's limited". Could you give some examples of play in which it just wasn't working out? Or are you just looking at it and thinking "This needs to be changed"?
Bopple 11-24-06, 08:14 AM	You are sure that a ranger with Favored Enemy: Undead, Elemental, Plant & Construct causes less damage against those than his rogue buddy? I'd wager that's not gonna happen anytime soon. No. But I'd wager that kind of favored enemy choice is not gonna happen anytime soon. Popular Favored Enemies are; Human, Elf, Evil Outsider, Undead, Monstrous Humanoid and Dragon.
Oswald Krato 11-24-06, 09:28 AM	Human, Undead, Dragon are all good favored enemy choices. Manyshot/Rapid Shot then do bonus damage and get all those nice skill boosts against them. VonRich does have a point about covering some of the non-sneak-attackable enemies, so that the party doesn't miss out on some kind of bonus damage.
Throg 11-24-06, 09:38 AM	A good point a friend of mine playing a Ranger brought up in our current group, is that his main Favored Enemy is Dragons, yet he couldn't afford to spend the skill points on the knowledges pertaining to Dragons (Knowledge: Arcane). I would say they should get something along the lines of adding half their Ranger level to any knowledge checks pertaining to their favored enemy.
Jaxgaret 11-24-06, 01:16 PM	A good point a friend of mine playing a Ranger brought up in our current group, is that his main Favored Enemy is Dragons, yet he couldn't afford to spend the skill points on the knowledges pertaining to Dragons (Knowledge: Arcane). I would say they should get something along the lines of adding half their Ranger level to any knowledge checks pertaining to their favored enemy. Or just add their Favored Enemy bonus to Knowledge checks pertaining to their Favored Enemy. Makes perfect sense to me. Pertaining to Rangers vs. Scouts vs. Wilderness Rogues: as has been said many, many times before - just because a character class is called "Ranger" doesn't mean that the PC has to walk around telling people "I'm a Ranger!" They are free to be whatever they want, Ranger is just a title for a class. A Ranger5 or a Scout5 or a Wilderness Rogue5 can all call themselves a "Scout" or a "Woodsman" or a "Tracker" or a "Ranger" or what have you, and they would all be right. Just as a samurai need not have any levels in a class with the word Samurai in it. (See OotS for reference).
Grey_Mage 11-24-06, 04:14 PM	Actualy the knowledge bonus makes perfect sense... after all youve studied them enough to know how to detect and kill them... but you cant tell me the breath weapon they use? My problem with favored enemy is thus: DM rolls a listen check... I give him my total... I fail. If had used my favored enemy bonus *say +4 in this case* i would have passed. I didnt know what it was though... I had no reason to suspect it was a goblinoid in the area... I didnt know it was anything *My DM has us make random listen checks from time to time* and my DM forgot what my favored enemys where and the exact bonuses that it would grant me. *spreads hands* Much of my class ability is wasted outside of direct combat simply because as a player I dont know everything the DM does, and the DM is already busy trying to keep track of everything else. That should be such an issue.
Kursk 11-24-06, 04:16 PM	limited[/I] sneak attack damage. I think this is reasonable considering they already have Hide and move silently. Thoughts? You are taking away a power that has limited application and replacing with something that is broad. Balance, balance, balance.
OneWinged4ngel 11-24-06, 06:05 PM	Have you considered favored terrains as a variant?
Vaelan 11-24-06, 08:17 PM	Have you considered favored terrains as a variant? Link (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm) It does hurt the Ranger a bit offensively, unfortunately.
aelryinth 11-24-06, 11:04 PM	There's a slew of feats to increase the potency of Favored Enemy, too, don't forget. FE Power Attack. FE Critical Improved FE Elf Ranger sub levels. FE feat applies the bonus to TH rolls. Extra Favored Enemy. And the Foebane enchantment on a weapon adds Bane to the weapon for every FE you have. The Ranger only lags behind the Rogue if he doesn't up his str and doesn't take Power Attack. Between a higher Str, better TH, and FE, with Power Attack, he can out damage a rogue easily. TWF also profits from the additional FE dmg. As for the KNowledge skills, have any Favored Enemy that isn't on his general list just fold into his Survival ranks. His Int bonus won't apply, but that's fine. ==Aelryinth
Bopple 11-25-06, 12:28 AM	Favored Critical and Extra Favored Enemy are 3.0 feats. It is solely dependent upon your DM's decision. And if you take Favored Power Attack, then you would outdamage a rogue against your primary enemy. But the rogue can take Telling Blow and Craven feats to tip the balance again. Moreover, if you take 2H route, then your combat style abilities are wasted.
Demonwolf 11-25-06, 03:00 AM	I think you'd all find this fairly interesting. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=10731536#post10731536
The_Shaman 11-25-06, 08:15 AM	I would like to see a ranger with sneak attack (partial, of course), but that would probably be more of a combat style. Sure, it goes a little into rogue territory, but with high stealth abilities, light armor, and good skills, the concept of a ranger is very close to that of the rogue anyway. Training in dirty fighting (sneak attack) is just as viable as exotic techniques about wielding 2 weapons (TWF). I can understand having favourite enemies, but perhaps they don't need to be mandagory. You could also introduce the option of a favourite terrain, using some of the Horizon Walker abilities, perhaps slightly modified to give more combat advantages as well (i.e. dodge bonus to AC - there's a feat in Races of the Wild that does that, if you think it's too weird).
Demonwolf 11-25-06, 11:36 AM	Another suggestion- multiclass a druid/rogue/fighter and ask your DM if you can RP it as a ranger, call it a ranger, etc. I know it can feel cheap as a solution but it actually does work well, and quite frankly, I like it mechanically more than any variation on the ranger that I've found.
The_Shaman 11-25-06, 02:30 PM	Another suggestion- multiclass a druid/rogue/fighter and ask your DM if you can RP it as a ranger, call it a ranger, etc. I know it can feel cheap as a solution but it actually does work well, and quite frankly, I like it mechanically more than any variation on the ranger that I've found. This can work best if you improve the spellcasting of the Prestige Ranger from Unearthed Arcana. As it is, 7 spellcasting levels over 15 levels is a bit poor for what is definitely a prestige class.
Michigan 11-25-06, 07:27 PM	Favored Critical and Extra Favored Enemy are 3.0 feats. 3.0 feats are still legal in revised 3.5. I wish people would stop saying/implying that they weren't.
Bopple 11-25-06, 08:03 PM	3.0 materials are compatible if they do not go against 3.5 changes, but it does not mean they are accepted as default option. When there were only a couple of 3.5 splatbooks, most 3.0 materials were used. But nowadays, we have abundance of 3.5 materials, and few DM allow 3.0 materials. Finally, it's dubious if Favored Critical and Extra Favored Enemy are compatible or not, because critical stacking rule and favored enemy rule are changed in 3.5.