An Actual Use for True Necromancer [Archive] - Wizards Community

An Actual Use for True Necromancer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Praedoran
09-22-04, 08:37 PM That is, if your DM allows the mixing of 3.0 and 3.5 material.

A True Necromancer says he stacks the total class levels of his Wizard and Cleric Levels for purposes of Necromancy or Death Domain spells, so without further ado, the TRUE Necromancer:

Level 7 Cleric, Level 3 Necromancer (Specialist Wizard), Level 10 True Necromancer:

Feats: Scribe Scroll, Practiced Spellcaster (Wizard), Practiced Spellcaster (Wizard), Practiced Spellcaster (Wizard), Practiced Spellcaster (Wizard), Practiced Spellcaster (Cleric), Arcane Disciple (Death, to Meet the Prereqs), Domain Focus (Necromancy, Ebberron), Domain Focus (Evil)

Thus, we give +9 Caster Levels to the Cleric and +1 Caster Level to the Wizard from the PrC. Total CL for Necromancy and Death Domain Spells = 20 So far.

Then, we add it +20 CL for 5 Practiced Spellcasters, +4 CL for Domain Focus and Domain (This +4 Mainly Applies to Animate Dead, Create Undead, and Create Greater Undead, a [Evil] Necromancy Spell)

Thus, we have a 20th Level Character with a Caster Level of 44 for his Animate Dead spell. Thus allowing him to create 44x4: 176 HD of Undead, as well as Command upto 16 Additional Undead using Clerical Command Undead, and then he simply keeps making more Undead using Animate Dead and since they get no saving throw against Command Undead, he cast simply use a Rod of Extend (Lesser) to control that particular Undead for 88 Days. And using the ones undead his Clerical Command (Using Enervation to Create Wights) can then unleash them on a town and since he controls the ones that control others he's got even more Wights under his control.

And if the DM allows it, with a CL of 44 for Create Greater Undead, there really isn't anything that you can't make when it comes to the Undead.

So definately fear this guy should be ever make it to a Red Dragon Graveyard, were he can control like 9 of those suckers right off the bat and command the rest using only his 2nd Level spells. Otherwise, he's got enough power to turn entire towns in the course of a single night under his control and then just expand from there...

Using the BoVD rules they can start a chant for +10 Turn Resistance to all the creature participating in the chant and he can always use those extra Rebuke attempts to Bolster his own Undead's resistances to turning.

Anybody else got some awesome Necromancer builds? (Cleric or Wizard is Fine)
Praedoran
09-22-04, 08:43 PM If you include FR General of Undeath, then that 440 HD of Undead underneath his control...
Vanigo
09-22-04, 09:06 PM Doesn't work. You can't take Practiced Spellcaster more than once for the same class. You could still pull off CL 32, though.
Praedoran
09-22-04, 09:35 PM I guess that's three feats he gets to play with... If Libris Mortis came out already, I'd have an idea for the 3rd, but I'd say Fleshcrafter and Bolster Resistance and the third is always up for grabs, and if he swaps the level up to wizard with Cleric, he'd be able to cast 9th Level Clerical Spells.

Course, this build is really going for the powerful Horde type Necromancer, one of my favorite builds was a Zass Tam like Red Wizard whose saving throws went off the charts, too bad we never played that campaign until he got Wail of the Banshee :)
Engilbrand
09-22-04, 10:19 PM It doesn't work. Practiced Spellcaster specifically says that it can't bring it beyond your HD. That's what they have all that stuff about the Cleric/Fighter. The feat is meant for a character who has a few caster levels, then does something else. It's good for some extra damage and duration, but it's not going to boost you up to +20, no matter how many times you take it. You could take it for the cleric and for the wizard, at which point you would cast your Cleric spells as a 20th level cleric, and your wizard spells would cast as an 8th level wizard, but all of your Death and Necromancy spells would still be cast at 20. That alone makes for an interesting character, but it's not as god-like as you had intended. You might also want to check out the little Special at the end of the feat.
Praedoran
09-22-04, 10:53 PM That's an interesting interpretation, because I was just using it under the belief the cap was meant simply to keep you from exceeding your level. Whereas the True Necro PrC says you combine your Cleric and Wizard Caster Level, which while the feat doesn't improve your CL normally above 20 either way, it at the same time says you can't improve your CL above your HD. However, it does give the True Necromancer another kick to the face that causes it to again, suck as far as anything Necromancer is concerned, because multiclassed spellcasters can't compete in comparison to single classed because they can't cast the high level spells.

Thanks for your point.
edsonaoki
09-22-04, 11:42 PM There's a prestige class on Player's Guide to Faerun that is almost identical to the True Necromancer, but gets mixed arcane/divine spellcaster levels (not as many as a Mystic Theurge, but better than 5/5). It requires Lolth as patron deity.
Vanigo
09-23-04, 12:01 AM There's a prestige class on Player's Guide to Faerun that is almost identical to the True Necromancer, but gets mixed arcane/divine spellcaster levels (not as many as a Mystic Theurge, but better than 5/5). It requires Lolth as patron deity.
Actually, it requires Kiaransalee as patron diety. And the caster level progression is only 6/6.
Chronic Alcoholic
09-23-04, 04:32 AM How about exchanging the 9 lvls of True Necromancer for Mystic Theurge wich would give caster lvls to both cleric and Necro. Have the wizard the higher lvl oned like this

Wizard (necromancer) - 7
cleric -3
True Necro -1 (to cleric)
Mystic Theurge -9

+ Practiced Spellcasting on both (once each :P) and those domain bonuses so they have caster levels of

Wiz 20
Cleric 13 (17 when using those evil necromancy spells)

so it's caster level 37 on animate dead and that gets you 148 HD of monsters in one spell if you are in a desecrated area (costs 7400gp in black onyx's).

So take 2 lvls in Pale master and one more in TN insted of wizard and you lose one caster lvl for free (no gp cost) animate once per day and a constant zone of desecration.

EDIT: stupid me, drop one more lvl of wizard and have Mystic Theurge at 10 so it's still 37 caster levels.

Just visit the cemetary and raise yourself an army of 148 local citizen or kill 7 HD20 creatures and raise them.
Raging Halfling
09-23-04, 12:11 PM If you were to check the CO board, this is actually a very old exploit. I believe the version they have created has a mix of levels like this: Wizard 5/Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 7/Contemplative 1/True Necro 1/??? 4.

Basically, you need Cosmopolitan and decent Int at first level to make the skill requirements for Ur-Priest. Go wizard until you qualify, take 2 level UP, then move into Mystic Theurge until you have enough ranks in Knowledge(Religion) to go into Contemplative to get the Death domain. Take your well-deserved level of True Necro to start doing some crazy caster-level stacking madness. During this process, take Practiced Spellcaster twice for both Arcane and Divine spells.

This build is further enhanced by the fact the Ur-Priest also adds half your caster level from arcane spellcasting levels. Final caster level using divine necromancy spells (assumes you finish with further arcane advancement): CL 44. It's a legal build that can be further enhanced using items that increase caster level.

Oh, you also get 9th level spells in both Arcane and Divine magic to spice things up even more.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Praedoran 09-22-04, 08:37 PM	That is, if your DM allows the mixing of 3.0 and 3.5 material. A True Necromancer says he stacks the total class levels of his Wizard and Cleric Levels for purposes of Necromancy or Death Domain spells, so without further ado, the TRUE Necromancer: Level 7 Cleric, Level 3 Necromancer (Specialist Wizard), Level 10 True Necromancer: Feats: Scribe Scroll, Practiced Spellcaster (Wizard), Practiced Spellcaster (Wizard), Practiced Spellcaster (Wizard), Practiced Spellcaster (Wizard), Practiced Spellcaster (Cleric), Arcane Disciple (Death, to Meet the Prereqs), Domain Focus (Necromancy, Ebberron), Domain Focus (Evil) Thus, we give +9 Caster Levels to the Cleric and +1 Caster Level to the Wizard from the PrC. Total CL for Necromancy and Death Domain Spells = 20 So far. Then, we add it +20 CL for 5 Practiced Spellcasters, +4 CL for Domain Focus and Domain (This +4 Mainly Applies to Animate Dead, Create Undead, and Create Greater Undead, a [Evil] Necromancy Spell) Thus, we have a 20th Level Character with a Caster Level of 44 for his Animate Dead spell. Thus allowing him to create 44x4: 176 HD of Undead, as well as Command upto 16 Additional Undead using Clerical Command Undead, and then he simply keeps making more Undead using Animate Dead and since they get no saving throw against Command Undead, he cast simply use a Rod of Extend (Lesser) to control that particular Undead for 88 Days. And using the ones undead his Clerical Command (Using Enervation to Create Wights) can then unleash them on a town and since he controls the ones that control others he's got even more Wights under his control. And if the DM allows it, with a CL of 44 for Create Greater Undead, there really isn't anything that you can't make when it comes to the Undead. So definately fear this guy should be ever make it to a Red Dragon Graveyard, were he can control like 9 of those suckers right off the bat and command the rest using only his 2nd Level spells. Otherwise, he's got enough power to turn entire towns in the course of a single night under his control and then just expand from there... Using the BoVD rules they can start a chant for +10 Turn Resistance to all the creature participating in the chant and he can always use those extra Rebuke attempts to Bolster his own Undead's resistances to turning. Anybody else got some awesome Necromancer builds? (Cleric or Wizard is Fine)
Praedoran 09-22-04, 08:43 PM	If you include FR General of Undeath, then that 440 HD of Undead underneath his control...
Vanigo 09-22-04, 09:06 PM	Doesn't work. You can't take Practiced Spellcaster more than once for the same class. You could still pull off CL 32, though.
Praedoran 09-22-04, 09:35 PM	I guess that's three feats he gets to play with... If Libris Mortis came out already, I'd have an idea for the 3rd, but I'd say Fleshcrafter and Bolster Resistance and the third is always up for grabs, and if he swaps the level up to wizard with Cleric, he'd be able to cast 9th Level Clerical Spells. Course, this build is really going for the powerful Horde type Necromancer, one of my favorite builds was a Zass Tam like Red Wizard whose saving throws went off the charts, too bad we never played that campaign until he got Wail of the Banshee :)
Engilbrand 09-22-04, 10:19 PM	It doesn't work. Practiced Spellcaster specifically says that it can't bring it beyond your HD. That's what they have all that stuff about the Cleric/Fighter. The feat is meant for a character who has a few caster levels, then does something else. It's good for some extra damage and duration, but it's not going to boost you up to +20, no matter how many times you take it. You could take it for the cleric and for the wizard, at which point you would cast your Cleric spells as a 20th level cleric, and your wizard spells would cast as an 8th level wizard, but all of your Death and Necromancy spells would still be cast at 20. That alone makes for an interesting character, but it's not as god-like as you had intended. You might also want to check out the little Special at the end of the feat.
Praedoran 09-22-04, 10:53 PM	That's an interesting interpretation, because I was just using it under the belief the cap was meant simply to keep you from exceeding your level. Whereas the True Necro PrC says you combine your Cleric and Wizard Caster Level, which while the feat doesn't improve your CL normally above 20 either way, it at the same time says you can't improve your CL above your HD. However, it does give the True Necromancer another kick to the face that causes it to again, suck as far as anything Necromancer is concerned, because multiclassed spellcasters can't compete in comparison to single classed because they can't cast the high level spells. Thanks for your point.
edsonaoki 09-22-04, 11:42 PM	There's a prestige class on Player's Guide to Faerun that is almost identical to the True Necromancer, but gets mixed arcane/divine spellcaster levels (not as many as a Mystic Theurge, but better than 5/5). It requires Lolth as patron deity.
Vanigo 09-23-04, 12:01 AM	There's a prestige class on Player's Guide to Faerun that is almost identical to the True Necromancer, but gets mixed arcane/divine spellcaster levels (not as many as a Mystic Theurge, but better than 5/5). It requires Lolth as patron deity. Actually, it requires Kiaransalee as patron diety. And the caster level progression is only 6/6.
Chronic Alcoholic 09-23-04, 04:32 AM	How about exchanging the 9 lvls of True Necromancer for Mystic Theurge wich would give caster lvls to both cleric and Necro. Have the wizard the higher lvl oned like this Wizard (necromancer) - 7 cleric -3 True Necro -1 (to cleric) Mystic Theurge -9 + Practiced Spellcasting on both (once each :P) and those domain bonuses so they have caster levels of Wiz 20 Cleric 13 (17 when using those evil necromancy spells) so it's caster level 37 on animate dead and that gets you 148 HD of monsters in one spell if you are in a desecrated area (costs 7400gp in black onyx's). So take 2 lvls in Pale master and one more in TN insted of wizard and you lose one caster lvl for free (no gp cost) animate once per day and a constant zone of desecration. EDIT: stupid me, drop one more lvl of wizard and have Mystic Theurge at 10 so it's still 37 caster levels. Just visit the cemetary and raise yourself an army of 148 local citizen or kill 7 HD20 creatures and raise them.
Raging Halfling 09-23-04, 12:11 PM	If you were to check the CO board, this is actually a very old exploit. I believe the version they have created has a mix of levels like this: Wizard 5/Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 7/Contemplative 1/True Necro 1/??? 4. Basically, you need Cosmopolitan and decent Int at first level to make the skill requirements for Ur-Priest. Go wizard until you qualify, take 2 level UP, then move into Mystic Theurge until you have enough ranks in Knowledge(Religion) to go into Contemplative to get the Death domain. Take your well-deserved level of True Necro to start doing some crazy caster-level stacking madness. During this process, take Practiced Spellcaster twice for both Arcane and Divine spells. This build is further enhanced by the fact the Ur-Priest also adds half your caster level from arcane spellcasting levels. Final caster level using divine necromancy spells (assumes you finish with further arcane advancement): CL 44. It's a legal build that can be further enhanced using items that increase caster level. Oh, you also get 9th level spells in both Arcane and Divine magic to spice things up even more.