Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dalamb 11-24-06, 07:24 PM	Archivists can only learn divine spells; the automatic 2 at each level-up must be cleric spells, but they can learn any divine spell from a scroll or other spellbook. Does a spell labeled, "Magic 2" or "Knowledge 7" count as a divine spell? Some spells list arcane caster class levels, plus a specific domain level, but artificers don't have access to domains normally. An archivist can qualify for the Divine Oracle PrC by 6th level and "Gain access to the Oracle domain." Does this make any sense for a non-cleric? Archivists and druids don't get "domains". However, the Oracle granted power, +2 CL for divination, would be very nice to have for a sage-like character class, so I'd hope this would be legal. If the answer to 1 is "no, it's not divine", then does the spell's appearance on the Oracle domain list mean that the archivist could treat it as a divine spell once s/he takes one level in Divine Oracle?
Grey_Mage 11-24-06, 07:52 PM	1) They dont have access to domains... but if they can find a DIVINE scroll of that spell, they can learn it. Why? Because its divine... and its that simple lol. 2) Yes, they would gain the domain same as a druid would. 3) Irrelevant, because 1's answer is yes lol.
travellersside 11-24-06, 08:09 PM	They don't even need to find a scroll, just someone who can cast it. Since archivists can already Scribe Scrolls, and since multiple people can collaborate in crafting magic items, all that the archivist needs to do is to persuade a cleric (or druid, paladin, ranger...) to provide a casting of the spell while the archivist provides everything else. Admittedly, persuading some of those characters may be difficult, but it makes for good plot-hooks. Essentially, in exchange for performing some service (or in some cases, just a hefty pouch of gold) the character agrees to teach the archivist a new spell. And yes, Divine Oracle wouldn't be a bad choice for an archivist. (don't lose too many archivist levels though - some of your normal class abilities are pretty good)
dalamb 11-24-06, 09:52 PM	OK, so what Grey_Mage says means that an archivist could learn Identify from a scroll scribed by a cleric with the Magic domain, but not from one scribed by a wizard, right? Actually I think I should have left the "if" off my #3. When an archivist 6+ with the right feat decided to take Divine Oracle 1, s/he "gets access to" the Oracle domain. Why wouldn't that mean that Identify is now on her/his divine spell list? travellersside: interesting about collaborative creation -- I'd never thought of that before. Also, as far as I can see, for an archivist, Divine Oracle would be a 1-level dip, since the +2 divination from Oracle and bonus on scrying are worthwhile, given no loss of spellcasting levels, and might reasonably be considered to balance an archivist ability delay, but the higher levels don't look so worthwhile to me.
travellersside 11-24-06, 10:58 PM	:D No, no, no! Divine Oracle is a 2-level dip. Sometimes 3, if you intend to use a lot of unreliable spells like Divination. Since, when I use them, I want to actually get a good answer, it could be worth stacking the odds in my favour. Why 2-level? Because, not only do you get an extra +1 Ref v traps (not too bad) but you get the rather tasty pseudo-evasion-in-whatever-armor effect. Evasion without loss of a caster level? Very nice. As regards the added domain, yes, the spells are added to your class spell-list. Admittedly, it's not as well-written as I'd like, but you take what you can get. Paraphrasing the relevant entry (Complete Divine p20) If you're a class that uses a spellbook, you still have to somehow find the relevant scroll. However, since wizards can't normally scribe any divine spells, logically, these specific spell scrolls are now legal for them to use normally. ( :rolleyes: We'll leave aside the fact that, RAW, wizards can indeed scribe and thence cast divine spells :rolleyes: ) A wizard can then prepare and cast these domain spells once a day per spell. However, since an archivist has special rules regarding learning spells from scrolls (i.e. any divine spell can already be learned, you just have to find it) this limitation isn't relevant. Consequently, since the spells have been added to your spell list, you could choose to take them as your levelling spells. Identify is a very good choice since, unlike the arcane version, you don't have to waste a perfectly good pearl.
AvaronGansdell 11-25-06, 12:17 AM	ya the archivist in the right campagin is the best caster in the game. with potential access to all cleric spells, all druid spells, all paladin, ranger, and domain spells. and given all the domains out there its rather difficult to find a standard spell arcane or divine that they cant learn. even most of the arcane staple spells like time stop, magic missle and haste are easy to get access to.
dalamb 11-25-06, 12:20 AM	ooh, missed Divination Enhancement. Thing is, each of these d.o. levels loses 1/2rank of many knowledge skills, many of which are pretty much required for the archivist. I do believe the 3rank dip for clerics, though, especially since they have no special abilities after turn undead at 1st level. Although, I suppose Master of Knowledge from HoH would cancel the additional 1r penalty.
Max the Immortal 11-25-06, 02:15 AM	ya the archivist in the right campagin is the best caster in the game. with potential access to all cleric spells, all druid spells, all paladin, ranger, and domain spells. Don't forget Shugenja.
dalamb 11-25-06, 05:47 AM	Gack. Now I've got a lot more spell lists to look at. So many spells, so little time.
AvaronGansdell 11-25-06, 10:47 AM	aww forgot shugenja they have some nice ones on there list.
Max the Immortal 11-26-06, 02:15 AM	Glad to be of help :) .
runestar 11-26-06, 05:57 AM	Don't forget the various initiate of "god" feats, which can add unique divine spells. The initiate of mystra feat is just awesome...:P
dalamb 11-26-06, 07:42 PM	If you're in the right campaign, which this character isn't.