Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MADGator 04-29-07, 12:40 AM	Let me start off by saying that in no way do I believe Paladins to be "broken." They are a well rounded and fairly well balanced class in my opinion. I tend to play paladins in D&D and any other RPG they show up in. I'm definitely a fan, especially of the flavor that surrounds such an interesting and heroic class. That being said, I don't think the mechanical aspects of the Paladin as currently written live up to what the Paladin is MEANT to be. The Paladin is described as an elite holy warrior carrying out the will of the gods. As such they have the strictest alignment and role-playing restrictions in the game. Why then, is a class whose very description screams "power," always ranked towards the bottom end of players polls ranking most powerful class? Even columnists here have suggested adding powers to compensate for the Paladin's dead levles (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a). Ironically the Cleric, arguably the closest class to the Paladin, ranks at or near the top of these polls. So, can the Paladin class fulfill its potential without a major overhaul? I think so! To this end, I've created a new progression for Paladin abilities, while leaving their BAB, saves, spells, and most other class features alone. A lot of RPG games that have feautred Paladins lately have their abilities based around auras. Hmm, I wonder where that idea could have come from? :rolleyes: I didn't want to mimic those other Paladins either, nor steal auras from the Marshall class described in the Miniatures handbook. Instead I've tweaked a few standard Paladin abilities and created some new aura-based ones. None of these are meant to be a major powers in and of themselves, but instead to provide minor buffs to the Paladin and his party. Since this is going to be long, I'll continue it in another post below.
MADGator 04-29-07, 02:20 AM	-|-Paladin Special Abilities by Level-|- Note: Any special abilities not described in detail here are meant to be used as written in the Player's Handbook (PHB). Names of abilities may be subject to change. Level 1) Aura of alignment, detect evil/chaos, smite evil/chaos 1/day. Level 2) Devine grace, lay on hands. Level 3) Immunity to Fear, divine health, minor aura: 1st. Level 4) Turn undead, minor aura: 2nd. Level 5) Smite evil/chaos 2/day, special mount. Level 6) Remove disease 1/week, minor aura: 3rd. Level 7) Minor aura: 4th. Level 8) Minor aura: all. Level 9) Remove disease 2/week. Level 10) Smite evil/chaos 3/day. Level 11) Major aura: 1st. Level 12)Remove disease 3/week. Level 13) Major aura: 2nd. Level 14) Divine acumen. Level 15) Remove disease 4/week., smite evil/chaos 4/day. Level 16) Major aura: 3rd. Level 17) Major aura: 4th. Level 18) Major aura: all. Level 19) Unending martyrdom. Level 20) Smite evil/chaos 5/day. Aura of Alignment (Ex): As Aura of Good in PHB, except that the Paladin also projects an aura of Law. Detect Evil/Chaos (Sp): At will, a Paladin can use detect evil or detect chaos, as the spell. Only one may be active at a time. Switching between them is a free action. Smite Evil/Chaos (Su): As Smite Evil as written in PHB, except that this attack also affects Chaotic creatures. If the target creature is both Evil and Chaotic, the bonuses to damage do not stack, nor can the Paladin expend more than one use of this ability in a single turn in an attempt to do more damage. Minor Aura (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, a Paladin may choose to project an aura that provides a small benefit to the Paladin and all allies within 10 feet. Projecting an aura, or changing between auras, is a swift action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Only one minor aura may be active at any time, and this ability only functions if the Paladin is alive and concious. A Paladin begins knowing one aura of their choice at 3rd level and learns aditional auras at 4th, 6th, and 7th levels until all available auras are known beginning at 8th level. If more than on Paladin projects the same minor aura in a given area, the effects do not stack. Available auras are listed below. Major Aura (Su): Beginning at 11th level, a Paladin may choose to project an aura that provides a greater benefit to the Paladin and all allies within 20 feet. Projecting an aura, or changing between auras, is a swift action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Only one major aura may be active at any time, though a Paladin may project both a major and a minor aura simultaneously. This ability only functions if the Paladin is alive and concious. A Paladin begins knowing one aura of their choice at 11th level and learns aditional auras at 13th, 16th, and 17th levels until all available auras are known at 18th level. If more than on Paladin projects the same major aura in a given area, the effects do not stack.Available auras are listed below. Divine Acumen (Su): Beginning at 12th level, a Paladin may add their Charisma bonus to all Sense Motive checks. Unending Martydom (Ex); Beginnining at 19th level, any spell cast to return a Paladin that died while acting within her code of conduct from the dead may be cast without any material components other than a sprinkle of holy water. All other restrictions and penalties apply. -|-Minor Auras-|- Aura of Courage: All allies within this aura gain a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear. Aura of Smiting: All allies in this aura, including the Paladin, gain a +1 morale bonus to damage vs. evil or chaotic creatures. This bonus does not stack against creatures that are both evil and chaotic, nor does it stack with any other Paladin ability. Aura of Judgement: All allies in this aura, including the Paladin, gain a +1 morale bonus to hit vs. evil or chaotic creatures. This bonus does not stack against creatures that are both evil and chaotic, nor does it stack with any other Paladin ability. Aura of Determination: All allies in this aura, including the Paladin, gain a +1 Morale bonus to their AC as long as they do not move more than 5 feet in this round of combat. Aura of Sanctity: All allies in this aura, including the Paladin, gain a +1 morale bonus to hit and to damage vs. undead. This bonus does not stack with any other Paladin ability. -|-Major Auras-|- Aura of the Cavalier: All allies in this aura, including the Paladin, gain a Morale bonus on their ride checks equal to the Paladin's Charisma bonus. Aura of the Adamant: All allies in this aura, including the Paladin, gain damage resistance 1/-. Aura of the Cure: All allies in this aura, including the Paladin, gain bonus hit points equal to the Paladin's Charisma bonus whenever they are the subject of a Cure spell. This may not increase their hit point total above their normal maximum. Aura of the Savior: All allies in this aura gain a +1 Morale bonus on all saving throws. This does not stack with any other Paladin abilities. Aura of the Sacred: All undead in this aura take damage each round equal to the Paladin's Charisma bonus. To be affected, the Paladin must be aware of the undead creatures. This ability does not affect etheral creatures. The damage does not stack with any other damage dealt by Paladin abilities this round from the Paladin projecting the aura. Ok well there ya have it folks! This is still very much a work in progress, especially the various auras. I haven't had a chance to play test this, though, so please feel free to test it out and let me know how it works.
OneWinged4ngel 04-29-07, 04:34 AM	-|-Major Auras-|- Aura of the Cavalier: All allies in this aura, including the Paladin, gain a Morale bonus on their ride checks equal to the Paladin's Charisma bonus. Not bad. Obviously more useful than the next one, if the game involves a good deal of horsemanship... Aura of the Adamant: All allies in this aura, including the Paladin, gain damage resistance 1/-. Almost useless one here... Aura of the Cure: All allies in this aura, including the Paladin, gain bonus hit points equal to the Paladin's Charisma bonus whenever they are the subject of a Cure spell. This may not increase their hit point total above their normal maximum. This is strange. You basically are going to be doling out an extra 4-10 hp with every cure, but you're not actually curing, and it doesn't work at all like normal temporary hit points in that it can't increase over your maximum. The lack of a duration is questionable. Aura of the Savior: All allies in this aura gain a +1 Morale bonus on all saving throws. This does not stack with any other Paladin abilities. Probably the best "general" major aura, though calling these things "major is a bit questionable in itself, since they really aren't a compelling reason to take levels in the class past the usual limit, but oh well. Aura of the Sacred: All undead in this aura take damage each round equal to the Paladin's Charisma bonus. To be affected, the Paladin must be aware of the undead creatures. This ability does not affect etheral creatures. The damage does not stack with any other damage dealt by Paladin abilities this round from the Paladin projecting the aura. For being "major" auras, these really don't do much. 3-10 damage every round to certain types of undead? Why even bother? The paladin can just go nova on undead already, and wipe them out without investing in the aura. So far, these things look pretty much like... well, filler, rather than anything that actually adds much to the class. -|-Minor Auras-|- Aura of Courage: All allies within this aura gain a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear. Aura of Smiting: All allies in this aura, including the Paladin, gain a +1 morale bonus to damage vs. evil or chaotic creatures. This bonus does not stack against creatures that are both evil and chaotic, nor does it stack with any other Paladin ability. Aura of Judgement: All allies in this aura, including the Paladin, gain a +1 morale bonus to hit vs. evil or chaotic creatures. This bonus does not stack against creatures that are both evil and chaotic, nor does it stack with any other Paladin ability. Aura of Determination: All allies in this aura, including the Paladin, gain a +1 Morale bonus to their AC as long as they do not move more than 5 feet in this round of combat. Aura of Sanctity: All allies in this aura, including the Paladin, gain a +1 morale bonus to hit and to damage vs. undead. This bonus does not stack with any other Paladin ability. These things are about as good as the major auras... or better. +1 to hit and damage against undead is obviously stronger than 3-10 damage per round against them. +1 to AC for not moving isn't worth it at all. Aura of Courage is handy. +1 to hit for the group is handy. The whole "minor/major" thing is a bit misleading if the minor abilities are actually better half the time ;)
leomunds_assistant 04-29-07, 09:14 AM	I think that you need to get rid of the smite chaos, because it kind of counteracts with their alignment restrictions and code of conduct. If you smite chaos a chaotic good character, you must atone for commiting a bad deed. I just see it as un-needed.
porcelina 04-30-07, 08:03 PM	leomunds_assistant, I would think it unlikely that a paladin would choose to fight, and thus smite, someone who is CG, and vice-versa. If, for some reason, a CG character had to be restrained or "corrected", so to speak, one would assume that the paladin would make a decision based on sound judgment after assessing the situation. That's just part of being a paladin, as opposed to "kill anything that defies me, no questions asked". Although, admittedly, that leaves only CN for smite/chaos which, may be useful at times but, probably, not often enough to make it worthwhile.
Stormbrand 05-01-07, 12:46 PM	-|-Paladin Special Abilities by Level-|- Note: Any special abilities not described in detail here are meant to be used as written in the Player's Handbook (PHB). Names of abilities may be subject to change. Level 1) Aura of alignment, detect evil/chaos, smite evil/chaos 1/day. Level 2) Devine grace, lay on hands. Level 3) Immunity to Fear, divine health, minor aura: 1st. Level 4) Turn undead, minor aura: 2nd. Level 5) Smite evil/chaos 2/day, special mount. Level 6) Remove disease 1/week, minor aura: 3rd. Level 7) Minor aura: 4th. Level 8) Minor aura: all. Level 9) Remove disease 2/week. Level 10) Smite evil/chaos 3/day. Level 11) Major aura: 1st. Level 12)Remove disease 3/week. Level 13) Major aura: 2nd. Level 14) Divine acumen. Level 15) Remove disease 4/week., smite evil/chaos 4/day. Level 16) Major aura: 3rd. Level 17) Major aura: 4th. Level 18) Major aura: all. Level 19) Unending martyrdom. Level 20) Smite evil/chaos 5/day. Aura of Alignment (Ex): As Aura of Good in PHB, except that the Paladin also projects an aura of Law. Detect Evil/Chaos (Sp): At will, a Paladin can use detect evil or detect chaos, as the spell. Only one may be active at a time. Switching between them is a free action. Smite Evil/Chaos (Su): As Smite Evil as written in PHB, except that this attack also affects Chaotic creatures. If the target creature is both Evil and Chaotic, the bonuses to damage do not stack, nor can the Paladin expend more than one use of this ability in a single turn in an attempt to do more damage. Minor Aura (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, a Paladin may choose to project an aura that provides a small benefit to the Paladin and all allies within 10 feet. Projecting an aura, or changing between auras, is a swift action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Only one minor aura may be active at any time, and this ability only functions if the Paladin is alive and concious. A Paladin begins knowing one aura of their choice at 3rd level and learns aditional auras at 4th, 6th, and 7th levels until all available auras are known beginning at 8th level. If more than on Paladin projects the same minor aura in a given area, the effects do not stack. Available auras are listed below. Major Aura (Su): Beginning at 11th level, a Paladin may choose to project an aura that provides a greater benefit to the Paladin and all allies within 20 feet. Projecting an aura, or changing between auras, is a swift action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Only one major aura may be active at any time, though a Paladin may project both a major and a minor aura simultaneously. This ability only functions if the Paladin is alive and concious. A Paladin begins knowing one aura of their choice at 11th level and learns aditional auras at 13th, 16th, and 17th levels until all available auras are known at 18th level. If more than on Paladin projects the same major aura in a given area, the effects do not stack.Available auras are listed below. Divine Acumen (Su): Beginning at 12th level, a Paladin may add their Charisma bonus to all Sense Motive checks. Unending Martydom (Ex); Beginnining at 19th level, any spell cast to return a Paladin that died while acting within her code of conduct from the dead may be cast without any material components other than a sprinkle of holy water. All other restrictions and penalties apply. -|-Minor Auras-|- Aura of Courage: All allies within this aura gain a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear. Aura of Smiting: All allies in this aura, including the Paladin, gain a +1 morale bonus to damage vs. evil or chaotic creatures. This bonus does not stack against creatures that are both evil and chaotic, nor does it stack with any other Paladin ability. Aura of Judgement: All allies in this aura, including the Paladin, gain a +1 morale bonus to hit vs. evil or chaotic creatures. This bonus does not stack against creatures that are both evil and chaotic, nor does it stack with any other Paladin ability. Aura of Determination: All allies in this aura, including the Paladin, gain a +1 Morale bonus to their AC as long as they do not move more than 5 feet in this round of combat. Aura of Sanctity: All allies in this aura, including the Paladin, gain a +1 morale bonus to hit and to damage vs. undead. This bonus does not stack with any other Paladin ability. -|-Major Auras-|- Aura of the Cavalier: All allies in this aura, including the Paladin, gain a Morale bonus on their ride checks equal to the Paladin's Charisma bonus. Aura of the Adamant: All allies in this aura, including the Paladin, gain damage resistance 1/-. Aura of the Cure: All allies in this aura, including the Paladin, gain bonus hit points equal to the Paladin's Charisma bonus whenever they are the subject of a Cure spell. This may not increase their hit point total above their normal maximum. Aura of the Savior: All allies in this aura gain a +1 Morale bonus on all saving throws. This does not stack with any other Paladin abilities. Aura of the Sacred: All undead in this aura take damage each round equal to the Paladin's Charisma bonus. To be affected, the Paladin must be aware of the undead creatures. This ability does not affect etheral creatures. The damage does not stack with any other damage dealt by Paladin abilities this round from the Paladin projecting the aura. Ok well there ya have it folks! This is still very much a work in progress, especially the various auras. I haven't had a chance to play test this, though, so please feel free to test it out and let me know how it works. My first quibble is that the aura acquisition follows no numeric pattern, simply thrown in place of 'dead' levels almost arbitrarily. Simply an aura every 2 levels seems more appropriate, in part because the established numerical pattern allows for Epic Progression. Second point is that the auras need strengthening, perhaps scaling based on level. Major auras seem extremely weak and limited. Minor auras seem more about what they do not do than what they actually achieve - 'does not stack with any other paladin ability' needs removing desperately, since that seems to defeat the point of having them. 'Dead' levels can be used for a new 'Aura Strength' value. So +1 Aura strength every x (3 or 4) levels to make the aura stronger with more powerful paladins. Another feature to work with is extending these auras, so that the auras can feasibly serve paladins leading armies or defending a city from an unholy horde. Another thing, don't try to 'fill' every level. LoH progression, Smite Evil and Spell Progression are still small reliable boosts, and at key levels the mount improves as well. For some key examples: Aura of Smiting: All allies in this aura, including the Paladin, gain a +1 morale bonus to damage vs. evil or chaotic creatures. This bonus does not stack against creatures that are both evil and chaotic, nor does it stack with any other Paladin ability. Aura of Judgement: All allies in this aura, including the Paladin, gain a +1 morale bonus to hit vs. evil or chaotic creatures. This bonus does not stack against creatures that are both evil and chaotic, nor does it stack with any other Paladin ability. Why only one or the other? Why two auras? Why not one aura to both hit and damage? Aura of Sanctity: All allies in this aura, including the Paladin, gain a +1 morale bonus to hit and to damage vs. undead. This bonus does not stack with any other Paladin ability. Aside from the suggestion of Aura Strength, it may be worth subtracting Turn Resistance as well. Do we have something different for outsiders/fiends? One notion is 'upgraded auras' - for example, Aura of Sanctity could somehow lead into Aura of the Sacred. So the 'greater' form is simply an improvement on the lesser form rather than an alternative.
UAMDB 05-01-07, 05:27 PM	This is strange. You basically are going to be doling out an extra 4-10 hp with every cure, but you're not actually curing, and it doesn't work at all like normal temporary hit points in that it can't increase over your maximum. The lack of a duration is questionable. I think the problem in the wording. If I understand the intent, it means that any Cure spell cast in the aura heals an additional X where X equals to the Pally's Chr mod. So a cure light would heal 1d8+Level(max 5)+Pally Chr mod. At least thats what I think it means.
OneWinged4ngel 05-01-07, 05:54 PM	I think the problem in the wording. If I understand the intent, it means that any Cure spell cast in the aura heals an additional X where X equals to the Pally's Chr mod. So a cure light would heal 1d8+Level(max 5)+Pally Chr mod. At least thats what I think it means. Yeah, this whole thing's just pretty badly written. Clarity counts, heh.