Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Chumleigh 09-07-06, 10:58 PM	Hey, all. I'm interested in knowing you fine gentlefolk think of the idea of "Gestalting" or mashing two NPC classes together to make a "new" class for a PC. Okay, that last sentence is an awkward mess. Let's see if I can illustrate the concept with a couple examples: 1) Say you want to make a generic arcanist/delver into the unknown without going through the hassle of buying Heroes of Horror and mining the book for the Archivist. Two NPC classes strike me as suitable for dabblers of the arcane: the Expert and the Adept (even though the latter is a divine caster, I think Adept works because of the familiar and the limited number of spells, hence "dabbler"). Just like Gestalt, both classes would be mashed together and the resultant character would gain the best class features: Medium base attack bonus, customizeable skill list, mondo skill points, minor divine spellcasting, a familiar, etc. If we were to slap the name "Arcanist" onto this puppy, do you think it would be suitable for a player-character? 2) Or suppose you want to play a career soldier who uses brains and grit as much as force of arms. Combining the Warrior and Expert NPC classes seems to work for this purpose, and we could name the resultant hybrid something like, "The Professional" or somesuch. Is that playable? I hope I've made myself clear. The idea makes sense to me, but I'd really appreciate outside opnions on the level of balance here. Thanks in advance, --Chumleigh P.S. And let's not forget the Tribal Warrior, which is what happens when a mommy Adept and daddy Warrior love each other very much and nine months later ... P.P.S. Also, any ideas on how/when/if the Aristocrat could be made to fit into this system?
Lotus Crane 09-07-06, 11:04 PM	Hmm, interesting. Well, aside from commoner gestalts (because commoner really doesn't bring any advantages into a gestalt mix, aside from possibly Spot as a class skill), at a rough glance, it does sound like gestalting 2 NPC classes will yield a result that's comparable in power to a single normal PC class.
Fuzzy_Logic 09-07-06, 11:55 PM	No, Not really. The Expert/warrior gestalt might theoretically be the best way to portray certain archetypes, because of the flexible skills. But compare it with Ranger: Ranger has the d8, the full BAB, 6 skill points a level, spellcasting, AND bonus feats. Similarly, comapre the expert//adept with Bard. The bar has everything the expert/adept has, plus better svaes, mroe and better spells, and bardic music. The other combinaitons are pretty much all worse than these, so I'm gonna say no. Now, My DM gives NPC classes bonus feats and high skill points, at which point I might consider it.
Osedox 09-08-06, 12:04 AM	I have considered in the past making all characters gestalt, with the exception that one side has to be an NPC class. It wouldnt make the classes too strong, or at least not as strong as normal gestalt, but at the same time it would give them a neat boost.
Chumleigh 09-08-06, 02:30 PM	So the general consensus is that two Gestalted NPC classes appear to be appropriately balanced for use as PCs, but are in fact underpowered. Sigh. Well, anyone have any ideas on how to fix them? Or at least the "Arcanist" concept; I'm rather enamored of it. Would bonus feats every, say, fifth level work, if those feats were limited to Item Creation, Metamagic, and certain thematically-appropriate General feats (i.e., Spell Penetration, Improved Familiar, and suchlike)?
Fuzzy_Logic 09-08-06, 06:21 PM	First of all, You don't have to buy Heroes of Horror to get the archivist, because it's downloading off the wizards' website as a free preview. Second, rather than messign with NPC classes, why don't you start with Bard, then tweak the class features and skill list until you get what you're looking for?