Post/Author/DateTime	Post
claypigeons 09-19-06, 05:14 AM	It seems some people cant decide what class to play. Sometimes it's due to lack of knowledge of classes. Other times it's due to enjoying a certain class without knowing that another class might add another dimension to their gameplay while doing close to the same thing. Whatever the case, I'd like to help by creating this, the "Pick-a-class" Help Page. *Obviously this is in its preliminary stages. Refining is needed to make this a polished product. Any help with critiquing the material herein is appreciated.* *This is written without access to Miniatures Handbook. Descriptions of the classes in these books would be appreciated.* Without further delay... With my weapons I would... Rogue- A rogue from this catagory would invest heavily in infiltration type skills and feats. Skills like Hide and Move Silently will be maxed. Ninja-Ninjas would be close to the same as a rogue on paper. Their mechanics work a little bit differently, but they have the ability to go invisible after a few levels. Scout-While a scout doesnt have the same available skills as a rogue or ninja, they are (generally) faster. They can make great use of hit and run tactics. Fighter-Fighters are the generalist of heavy armoured melee classes. They run the gamut from lightly armoured cavalry to heavily armoured, nigh impenetrable tanks. Fighters can be tooled to excel in just about every combat situation. Barbarian-A barbarian's rage ability can be a huge boon in combat. Most often seen wielding a huge sword, hammer, or axe, barbarians are the ultimate in the "break faces" catagory. Monk-Monks can deal large amounts of damage with their fists. They make great brawlers, if you choose to use your fists as weapons. Ranger-Rangers of this catagory will take the two-weapon fighting route inherent in the class. Their favored enemy class ability will likely be extremely focused toward the most populous enemy. They will raise their strength and constitution as high as they can. Paladin-Paladins are the physical manisfestation of Law and Goodness. They have the ability to sense who may be evil and the power to strike them down. Samurai-A samurai lives by the code of his master. His life is dedicated to his master's name. They are the masters of Masterwork Bastard swords, and most of their class abilities go toward improving their skill with these weapons. Knight-The upholders of honor. A knight has a stricter code than a paladin, but his penalties are more leniant (loss of a class ability for the day versus losing your class) Monk-Monks work to make their bodies the ultimate weapon. As they progress through levels, they gain supernatural abilities that allow their bodies to do things that only magic can replicate for others. Scout-With their large amount of skill points and their increased movement, scouts serve as perfect..well... scouts for any party. Ranger-Rangers have a large amount skill points available to them, as well as a good skill list from which to choose. While they wont be as fast as a scout, their animal companion can serve as a second set of eyes. Rogue-Rogues that take up this roll basically serve as a slower version of the scout. Swashbuckler-Swashbucklers are a lightly armoured fighter. They use their brains to deal extra damage to vital areas of their enemies. Rogue-With sneak attack and a large number of attacks, usually through the use of feats, rogues can deal very large amounts of damage to most foes. Scout-While the damage potential of scouts isnt as high as rogue, they move faster. Ninja-Ninjas have a very similar (albeit inferior) mechanic to the rogue's sneak attack. Their sudden strike progression is identical to a rogue's sneak attack. Crusader- the crusader gains divine inspiration to battle their foes. Damage drives him to greater feats of strength and his attacks can heal those around him. He is the ultimate tank. Swordsage- master of many disciplines the swordsage is a duelist type class that excells when using maneuvers and stances. He learns more than any other and is a true perfectionist. Warblade- the warblade is master of the sword (or other weapon). He learns how to truly master fighting with the iron heart discipline. Your intelligence works to your advantage giving you bonuses in many combats. My magic would come... Warlock-Warlocks have either fiends or fey in their ancestry. This gives them power to shoot burst of magic to damage foes. It also allows them the ability to use large amounts of magic items. Sorcerer-Sorcerers wield arcane spells. This power can be from one of many sources including, but not limited to, dragons, demons, devils and angels. Ardent-You draw strength from your beliefs and your environment. You learn your powers through domain like lists called mantles. It is your personal philosophy that powers your repetoire and your abilities. You truly have the ability to make your will manifest. Dragonfire adept-You have learned to draw on the power of dragons. You imitate their scales, there toughness, and even their breath. As you progress along your path of draconic perfection you learn certain invocations and gain the ability to modify your breath weapon in new and fantastic ways. (its from dragon magic) Favored Soul-Favored souls are granted direct access to their diety's power. Where a cleric has to pray, a favored soul need only will for spells to be used. Spirit Shaman-Spirit shamans are master of the spirit world. They have access to druid spells and can cast many spells in a given day. While they have access to all spells, they must pick just a few each day. Incarnate-You have learned to channel the souls of everything that is, was, and ever will be into a tangible object. You live as a representation of a single alignment extreme and your talent is in adaption. Totemist-You worship and channel the souls of magical beasts. You channel them into various items that allow you to reproduce some of their most wondrous powers, from the sphinx's claws to the Tarasque's dread carapace. Erudite-Through incredible study you have mastered your mind. You can unlock it's powers as easily as a wizard discovers spells. However, our supply of available powers lessens as you use them. If knowledge of self is power, then you power is unlimited. Artificer-You are the master of crafts. You can use create magical items of both arcane and divine origin. You have also learned to modify existing items temporarily. Your specialization in creation allow you to learn techniques early (bonus item creation feats), create items with less effort (xp cost), and even create a construct of your own flesh. Warmage-A warmage is essentially and armoured cannon. He can deal tremendous damage with spells. Shugenja-Shugenjas can cast a wide range of spells. The spells you can cast are dependant on the order to which you belong. A shugenja can cast both healing and damaging spells. Psion-A psions power lies in his mind. He has a wide range abilities that he can use as much as his power points will allow. He has the freedom to enhance his powers or to leave them at their base strength. Using fully augmented powers each time quickly drains you, making you little more than a very bad fighter. Wilder-Wilders are essentially psions with natural abilities. A wilder can use his powers to improve his combat abilities or can use his powers to support his allies and hinder his foes. Dreadnecromancer-Dreadnecromancers are the masters of death. All of their abilities are to improve their bond with death, and they eventually become the living dead (a lich). Beguiler-Beguilers are the magic equivelent to rogues. They use their magic to mislead their foes. They have a large amount of skill points and an excellent skill list to enhance their misdirection and dungeon delving escapades. Binder-Beyond the reach of all that exists there are beings who cannot die, they are stuck in a senseless void unable to be touched by even the gods. You summon these creatures simply by drawing their seal and calling their name. You then bind them to your very being and gain powers that they once had. Shadowcaster-The only true universal constant is darkness. When there is light there is darkness, but darkness does not rely on light. You have learned to master the mysteries of darkness and can use the shadows to effect those around you. You, like the shadow's you manipulate, are subtle and yet deadly Truenamer-When the multi-verse was created a language was woven into all things. By mastering this language and muttering a word of it you can change the universe to your whims. You have studied long and hard to master the complex syllables of this true language and you have learned to affect the people, objects, and even the land around you. Wizard-Wizards gain their abilities through intense study. They only gain new spells through personal research or if they are fortunate enough to stumble upon a scroll or spellbook. Wizards must spend time each day preparing spells from their spellbook. If their book is lost, they are without their spells until they can retrieve it. Wu Jen-A wu jen is a wizard with a slightly different flavor. They are still required to prepare spells daily. They gain the ability to permanently modify spells with metamagic. Cleric-Clerics gain their power through the worship of a diety. The abilities granted them depends on the diety they serve. Clerics prepare spells daily. Druid-Druids have a close bond to nature. They have an animal companion that gains strength as the druid gains levels. They gain the ability to Wildshape into animals. Archivist-While a cleric knows every spell available to him at any given level, an archivist must search the world for his spells. He scribes them into his prayerbook and must prepare them daily, just like a wizard. Lurk-Whether the shadows you hide in are real or created within your foes mind it matters not. For when you strike you strike true, incapacitating your foe. Like no mere rogue you can inhance yourself and your sneaky attacks with your mind and it's powers. Not even those who cannot be bled will escape your wrath. Divine mind-Your beliefs and convictions manifest around you in an aura. Your steel strikes as surely as you mind. You are a natural leader, lending aid to your allies through the power of your mind. You also have learned to fight in the front lines. Soulborn-You have learned to channel the souls of everything that is, was, and ever will be into a tangible object. You represent an alignment extreme (LG, LE, CG, CE). The items you create from the souls of all around you compliment your formidable fighting capabilities. Bard-Bards have the ability to cast a wide variety of spells. They can cast Cure spells as well as sing songs that can hamper foes or help allies. Bards have large amount of skill points and a good skill set from which to choose. Spellthief-Spellthieves steal spells and abilities from their enemies. They also gain sneak attack, but they gain it at half the rate of rogues. A talented spellthief can turn the tide of even the most one-sided fight. Psychic Warrior-Psychic Warriors blend psionic ability with martial prowess. Their power set is limited, but they can use it to great effect. Powers like Expansion turn you into a very tough opponent. Psychic Warriors gains bonus feats, which can be used on feats labled "Fighter Bonus Feats." Soulknife-Soulknives have the ability to forge weapons using only their mind. They wield their mindblades to great effect and can cripple a foe with Wisdom, Charisma or Intelligence damage. Dragon Shaman-Dragon Shamans use auras to aid themselves and their allies in combat. They can heal their allies, give spell resistance or even increase their damage output. Dragon Shamans can use light and medium armour as well as shields, and have an "average" attack bonus so they can hold their own in combat as well. Duskblade-Duskblades blend magic and steel to the utmost ability. They can channel their spells through their wepaons to deal large amounts of damages, and have a large amount of spells per day with which to do it. Duskblades make poor blaster-type characters, their spells just arent good enough. They can stand up in combat fairly well due to their d8 HD and proficiency with all armours. Player's Handbook:Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, Wizard Player's Handbook II:Beguiler, Dragon Shaman, Duskblade, Knight Complete Divine:Favored Soul, Shugenja, Spirit Shaman Complete Arcane:Warlock, Warmage, Wu Jen Complete Adventurer:Ninja, Scout, Spellthief Complete Warrior:Hexblade, Samurai, Swashbuckler Complete Psionics:Erudite, Ardent, Divine Mind, Lurk Heroe's of Horror:Archivist, Dread Necromancer Expanded Psionics Handbook:Psion, Psychic Warrior, Soulknife, Wilder Tome of Magic:Binder, Shadowcaster, Truenamer Tome of Battle:Crusader, Swordsage, Warblade Magic of Incarnum:Incarnate, Soulborn, Totemist Dragon Magic:Dragonfire Adept Eberron Campaign Setting:Artificer Miniatures Handbook:Marshal, Healer Magic of Eberron: Psionic Artificer Italics indicate that classes from this book are not included at this stage.
benstundze 09-19-06, 02:19 PM	ranger also go's in the "break faces" group and this is only wotc productions right not custom? custom is loved on this form ben
demonic_dante 09-24-06, 02:15 PM	I would add another category in the weapons part for the Tome of battle guys. Theres also the Tome of magic guys. I won't go it to it now (monopoly calls) but this is a great idea.
demonic_dante 09-25-06, 04:26 PM	Under the weapons category: achieve perfection Crusader - the crusader gains divine inspiration to battle their foes. Damage drives him to greater feats of strength and his attacks can heal those around him. He is the ultimate tank. Swordsage - master of many disciplines the swordsage is a duelist type class that excells when using maneuvers and stances. He learns more than any other and is a true perfectionist. Warblade - the warblade is master of the sword (or other weapon). He learns how to truly master fighting with the iron heart discipline. Your intelligence works to your advantage giving you bonuses in many combats.
claypigeons 09-25-06, 06:12 PM	Sorry for the delay. I've havent had a chance to update this. I added Rangers to the "break faces" section. I added demonic_dante's descriptions of the ToB melee classes to the "Weapons" section. Thank you goes to demonic_dante.
Demonicazura 09-25-06, 06:41 PM	you should place which book each class comes from.
demonic_dante 09-26-06, 04:41 PM	Time for tome of magic: In the magic put the following under because I have trained Binder Beyond the reach of all that exists there are beings who cannot die, they are stuck in a senseless void unable to be touched by even the gods. You summon these creatures simply by drawing their seal and calling their name. You then bind them to your very being and gain powers that they once had. Shadowcaster The only true universal constant is darkness. When there is light there is darkness, but darkness does not rely on light. You have learned to master the mysteries of darkness and can use the shadows to effect those around you. You, like the shadow's you manipulate, are subtle and yet deadly Truenamer When the multi-verse was created a language was woven into all things. By mastering this language and muttering a word of it you can change the universe to your whims. You have studied long and hard to master the complex syllables of this true language and you have learned to affect the people, objects, and even the land around you. Also, the ToB classes can be put in other places as well. The crusader would fit in to the break faces category and maybe by my code (they don't actually have a code but they work through divine inspiration and a crusader with a code is not really a stretch). The swordsage would work in strike from shadows, eyes and ears, light on feet, and mix of magic/steel. The warblade would fit in break faces and maybe light on feet. Also, other classes can be in perfection *looking at you monks. Anyways that is all the Tome of classes The ramblings of Demonic_Dante
demonic_dante 09-26-06, 07:18 PM	Guess what kids I have more time... Yeah time. Im not dead yet. anyways lets tackle another book shall we...hmmm... hows abouts Magic of Incarnum. Under magic, subsection higher power Incarnate You have learned to channel the souls of everything that is, was, and ever will be into a tangible object. You live as a representation of a single alignment extreme and your talent is in adaption. Totemist You worship and channel the souls of magical beasts. You channel them into various items that allow you to reproduce some of their most wondrous powers, from the sphinx's claws to the Tarasque's dread carapace. In blend of magic and steel (it has a paladin like advancement) Soulborn You have learned to channel the souls of everything that is, was, and ever will be into a tangible object. You represent an alignment extreme (LG, LE, CG, CE). The items you create from the souls of all around you compliment your formidable fighting capabilities. and magic of incarnum done
Mitchell 09-26-06, 11:01 PM	SRD is here (http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm). It contains the psionic classes from the XPH, so you can check out and include those as well. In a nutshell, psion=wizard, wilder= sorcerer, kind of, soulknife= light fighter, psychic warrior= fighter/mage, with most of the magery focused on improving the fighting. That being said, I wouldn't exactly call the soulknife a blend of steel and spell. Yes, the mindblade is sort of magic in nature, but at the end of the day, they aren't exactly blending steel and spell, they are using "steel". Looks decent so far, though there will always be some stuff that fits somewhere in between a couple of the categories.
demonic_dante 09-28-06, 04:58 PM	Lets see if we can't finish this off. Under magic A higher power Dragonfire adept You have learned to draw on the power of dragons. You imitate their scales, there toughness, and even their breath. As you progress along your path of draconic perfection you learn certain invocations and gain the ability to modify your breath weapon in new and fantastic ways. (its from dragon magic) because I've trained Artificer You are the master of crafts. You can use create magical items of both arcane and divine origin. You have also learned to modify existing items temporarily. Your specialization in creation allow you to learn techniques early (bonus item creation feats), create items with less effort (xp cost), and even create a construct of your own flesh. (it is from eberron) Now I don't have miniatures so I won't do that, but you did forget complete psionic so I guess it is it's turn. because I've trained Erudite Through incredible study you have mastered your mind. You can unlock it's powers as easily as a wizard discovers spells. However, our supply of available powers lessens as you use them. If knowledge of self is power, then you power is unlimited. from a higher power Ardent You draw strength from your beliefs and your environment. You learn your powers through domain like lists called mantles. It is your personal philosophy that powers your repetoire and your abilities. You truly have the ability to make your will manifest. Magic and Steel Divine mind Your beliefs and convictions manifest around you in an aura. Your steel strikes as surely as you mind. You are a natural leader, lending aid to your allies through the power of your mind. You also have learned to fight in the front lines. Lurk Whether the shadows you hide in are real or created within your foes mind it matters not. For when you strike you strike true, incapacitating your foe. Like no mere rogue you can inhance yourself and your sneaky attacks with your mind and it's powers. Not even those who cannot be bled will escape your wrath. O.K. I believe that is every class but the Marshal (and any others in the miniatures handbook).
demonic_dante 09-28-06, 05:08 PM	I believe the classes we don't have are Marshal, Healer (both miniatures handbook), and psionic artificier (magic of eberron). As far as I know the psi artificier is the same as the other one but with psionics.
Wolfvyn 09-28-06, 05:20 PM	You should add the battle-sorc variant to the blend of magic and steel. They make better blasters than duskblades and have a wider spell list to choose from. At lower lvls the duskblade has a significatn edge because of the channel spell ability, but at latter lvls you can access spells above 5th lvl. In my oppinon the access to high lvl spells and faster spell progession make battle-sorcs better, especially for someone who is more used to playing casters than melees.
claypigeons 09-28-06, 05:35 PM	You should add the battle-sorc variant to the blend of magic and steel. They make better blasters than duskblades and have a wider spell list to choose from. At lower lvls the duskblade has a significatn edge because of the channel spell ability, but at latter lvls you can access spells above 5th lvl. In my oppinon the access to high lvl spells and faster spell progession make battle-sorcs better, especially for someone who is more used to playing casters than melees. I dont wish to include the variant classes from UA. There are far to many alternate classes to list them all here (battle sorc, thug, cloistered cleric, 8 specialist wizard classes, the totem barbarians...). None of them is really ~that~ much different from their parent classes. It's a case of just telling your fellow player, "Hey, if you like that, check this book out..."
Fuzzy_Logic 09-28-06, 08:57 PM	You know, how about instead of simply summarizing flavor text, we explained what the classes actually DO? That's where new players tend to have problems, IMHO. Of course, it's likely to be contentious. But still. Any class guide I made for new players would NOT list "monk" under "break faces"--or if it did, would have a ntoe acknowledging that many people feel that monks are significantly subpar combatants. Similarly, everyone GETS that shadowscasters are shadowier than wizards. Maybe if it explained what they cna actually DO with their magic, that would be mroe helpful... Similarly, rather than sorting the paladin types and ToB types out in thier own category, why not put them in the categories of the role they fulfill? tank, facesmasher, flanker, and so on. Similarly, wizard/psion/whatevers could be sorted into nuker, healer, summoner, buffer, and control/utility. Or whatever.
claypigeons 09-29-06, 07:30 AM	You know, how about instead of simply summarizing flavor text, we explained what the classes actually DO? That's where new players tend to have problems, IMHO. Would you like to write up full class lists of everything they do? The amount of HP they get, the spells available to them...? I was under the impression the sourcebooks already did that. This page is meant to give new (or less knowledgeable) players a nudge in the right direction. They can (and should) read about the classes in the books. Also, I would love to see someone write up lists for what every class could do. I can think of about 6 different fighters that are completely different concepts and can do completely different things, both in and out of combat. Similarly, rather than sorting the paladin types and ToB types out in thier own category, why not put them in the categories of the role they fulfill? tank, facesmasher, flanker, and so on. Similarly, wizard/psion/whatevers could be sorted into nuker, healer, summoner, buffer, and control/utility. Or whatever. Not every paladin is the same. The paladin I play might be more of a facesmasher than anything else, while the one you create is more of a tank. Not every wizard is nuker or a summoner. I cant describe a certain class as being just one type of character. The class is what you make of it, you just put the pieces where you want them.
Fuzzy_Logic 09-29-06, 10:09 AM	Would you like to write up full class lists of everything they do? The amount of HP they get, the spells available to them...? I was under the impression the sourcebooks already did that. This page is meant to give new (or less knowledgeable) players a nudge in the right direction. They can (and should) read about the classes in the books. Also, I would love to see someone write up lists for what every class could do. I can think of about 6 different fighters that are completely different concepts and can do completely different things, both in and out of combat. Not every paladin is the same. The paladin I play might be more of a facesmasher than anything else, while the one you create is more of a tank. Not every wizard is nuker or a summoner. I cant describe a certain class as being just one type of character. The class is what you make of it, you just put the pieces where you want them. I actually *do* have such a guide lying around somehwere. I cna try to find it... And, recognizing your point is correct, remember that enw players don't tend ot bend the class concepts--they tend to stay pretty true to their classes stereotypes. I would think at least identifying the best one or two abilities and general combat mode fo a character would be nice. Paladin = heavily armored warrior wiht healing and protection magic Clercs = surprisingly good at fighting, for priests. can heal, buff, and summon. Druids = turn into animals, befriend animals, and nature magic. etc...
HaikenEdge 09-29-06, 11:27 AM	Maybe it's just me, but Ardent's should be under the divine category. They don't necessarily serve a deity or a philosophy; rather, they use their powers to further their philosophy. Through worship or study seems like a better choice for them.
LordPendragon 09-29-06, 12:52 PM	Crusaders definitely fit under the "Live by my own code" section. Even though the ToB classes have unique mechanics, I agree that they should be inserted in sections with the other classes where appropriate.