"Underpowered" ArcKnight? [Archive] - Wizards Community

"Underpowered" ArcKnight? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ethicalsean
02-27-04, 02:29 AM Alright, in a recent campaign I'm playing in, one of the players in the group threw out his homebrew PrC the "ArcKnight." Being familiar with this PrC from his brand of NPC > PC campaigns, I immediately chimed in about whether he honestly thought this behemoth was balanced. I was chastised by his wisdom (much like the wisdom to ac bonus granted to the arcknight) that it infact was quite balanced and that the Bladesinger was far superior to his arcknight...

Now my question is, how overpowered is this prestige class. How many classes is it equivalent to? Or... am I that ignorant (as with the rest of the group) to DnD that I just don't see the inferiorty of this class.

Arch Knight
Requirements:
Alignment: Any
Base Attack Bonus: +5
Feats: Weapon Focus(any sword), Expertise, Still Spell, Combat Reflexes, Combat Casting
Concentration: 6 ranks
Knowledge Arcana: 6 ranks
Spell Craft: 6 ranks
Spells: Ability to cast arcane spells.
Spells Per Day
Level Att Bonus Fort Ref Will Abilites
1 + 1 +2 +2 +2 Weapon Finesse, Weapon of Choice
2 + 2 +3 +3 +3 Mastery of Shaping
3 + 3 +3 +3 +3
4 + 4 +4 +4 +4 Parry
5 + 5 +4 +4 +4 Weapon Specialization 3 1
6 + 6 +5 +5 +5 Lightning Blade
7 + 7 +5 +5 +5
8 + 8 +6 +6 +6 Blade Grasp 4 3 2 1
9 + 9 +6 +6 +6
10 +10 +7 +7 +7 Arcane Might

Spells Per Day
1 2 3 4 5

1
1
2
2 1
3 1
3 2 1
4 2 1
4 3 2 1
5 4 3 1
5 4 4 2 1

Hit Die: d8.
Class Skills: The arch knight's class skills are: Concentration, Craft, Jump, Knowledge (arcana), Listen, Profession, Spell Craft, Spot, Swim, Balance, and Tumble.
Skill Points at each level: 4 + Int modifier
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An arc-kngiht is proficient with all simple, martial; light armor and medium armor, but not shields.
Weapon of Choice: An arc-knight chooses one sword with which he has the weapon focus feat to become his weapon of choice. Once chosen it can never be changed. Arc-knights channel all of their spells through their chosen type of weapon. Without a weapon of their chosen drawn they cannot cast spells.
Weapon Finesse: At 1st level an Arc-Knight may use his dexterity modifier instead of his strength modifier on attack rolls with his weapon of choice.
Mastery of Shaping: An arc-knight is familiar with the close combat and spell casting. It often happens that a spell would damage a friend as well as foes. Because of this arch knights have developed their spells so they may shape their area of affect to harm only those they want within the spells range. In short an Arc-knight can take a full round action to make his spells only damage who they wish them to. Spells with a duration don't affect those an archknight would have wanted not to hurt when the spell is just cast.
Parry: An Arc-Knight wielding his weapon of choice gains +2 deflection bonus to ac against one opponent or a +1
deflection bonus to all opponents.
Weapon Specialization: At 5th level an Arc-knight gains the weapon specialization feat with his weapon of choice.
Lightning Blade: An Arc-Knight of 8th level or higher adds his charisma modifier to iniative checks as well as dexterity modifier.
Blade Grasp: An arc-knight is so familliar with the movements of melee combat that when he has at least one hand empty he can delfect(simple push away slightly) or dodge the attack which is coming at him. The Archknight add his wisdom modifier if possitive to his AC. Once per round if the arc-knight has both hands free he may attempt to grasp and disarm an opponent who just missed the arc-knight. Any weaponed disarmed in this fashion maybe instantly used by the archknight.
Arcane Might: An Arch knight has mastered the ability to use spells quickly in combat. The Arch knight can automaticly quicken a number of spells equal to half his charisma modifier(maximum of 4 per day).
Spells:
Arc-knights know all the spells in their spell list; however, they do not cast spontanously. Arc-Knights perpare their spells each day, but not through the extensive book reading and studing of a wizard. An Arc-knight perpares his spells through Katas and Meditation. This process normally takes 1 hour and a minimum of 8 hours of rest is required before he can reprepare spells again. Since all arc-knight symatic components are through movements of the sword, Arc-knights do not suffer arcane spell failure when wearing light armor.

Level 1:
Sword Missile(ranged touched: 50ft+5ft/level, deals 1d8+level),
Blade Wind(1d4/2 level max 5d4 in 15ft radius around caster reflex for half),
True Strike,
Bless Blade(as paladin's but on opposite alignement instead of just evil),
Lesser Elemental Blade(adds 1d6 elemental damage, duration 1d6+level)
Level 2:
Sword Rain(1d4/level in 25ft radius around caster reflex for half; max 8d4),
Keen Edge,
Blade Beam(30ft+5ft/2 levels by 5ft line, 1d4/level refl for half; max 8d4),
Bladed Ground(All movement is halved, cannot run, tumbling checks are increased by +15, anyone tripped automaticly take 1d10 reflex to negate damnage in a 30ft radius),
Healing Wind(heals 1d6+1/2levels in 15 foot radius)
Level 3:
Crimson Blade(adds wounding blade),
Vampiric Blade(upon each hit 1d6hp is absorbed),
Chi Blade(adds +1 enchantment/4 levels max +4, this stacks with normal enchantments),
Ring of Blades(As fireshield except slashing damage)
Blade Spin(ranged touched: 30ft+5ft/level, 1d6/level; max 10d6)
Level 4:
Blade Cross(as blade beam but d6s and in 4 directions: infront, behind, left and right of you; max 15d6),
Quicken Blade(adds speed enchantment),
Blade Barrier,
Curse Blade,
Healing Rain(heals 1d6/2 levels in 25 foot radius)
Level 5:
Omnislash(+20 to attack on the next full attack action, 1 round duration),
Diamond Cut(increase multiplier by level/5),
Elemental Blade(adds any 3 of the elemental enchantments, or 3d6 of 1 type),
Energy Blade(adds brilliant energy),
BladeBlast(1d8/level in a 35ft radius blast centered on you; refl half;max 15d8)
Maraxus
02-27-04, 01:12 PM 1. Suggestion: Add a blank line between every two abilitys and write the name of the ability underlined or bold.

2. Comment:(You see how much easier it is to read this? ;)) I have seen worse classes than this. I would rate it with about 1.7 CR/Level. So you can tell him, he is allowed to take this class, if he adds the "Hard to master" - feature:

Hart to master:
The Ways of the Arch Knight are far supperior to minor classes. But it takes also more time and effort to lear and to master. Therefore, whenever the character gets a level in this prestige class, he suffers from a 40% experience penalty, untill he get's a level in another class.
This is calculated from the one point that brought him the level. So, if he needs 100 points to level up, gets 1100 points and takes one level in Arch Knight, the rest of 1000 experience points will be reduced by 40% to 600 points.
Deladrion Garthin
02-27-04, 02:26 PM Ooh, I like the Hard to Master idea, hehe

I like that it has it's own spell list, but all of the homebrew spells makes it really difficult to make a judgement on them, since it's impossible to include a good, complete spell description with each of them. On all of the spells that should have a duration that I read, none of them do. However, one thing that I'd suggest is to make each die of damage subject to damage reduction on the spells that damage with blades and such. (ie. Blade Wind, Sword Missle, Blade Beam). This might take the power down a notch. The damage should still penetrate damage reduction of /magic, though.

Also, the affect of the spells as caster level increases is a little weird... Chi Blade(adds +1 enchantment/4 levels max +4, this stacks with normal enchantments),
Here it says +1/4 caster levels, but this a 10 level class. Technically the "max" is +3, not +4. The character's arcane caster level wouldn't stack with his ArcKnight level for determing spell effects, since the ArcKnight has it's own spell list. Make sure your friend knows that.

But I can say that some of the spells are overpowered. Chi Blade, for instance. Enhancement bonuses should never stack.

If you can get your friend to model his spells on those in the PHB, it would help.

Full BAB and all good saves is a bad idea = Too powerful
Blade Grasp is too powerful UNLESS it doesn't stack with armor bonuses

Oh, and what is the primary spell casting attribute of the ArcKnight? (ie. Int, Wis, Cha?)

Honestly, I think your friend should just look into the Spell Sword of the Blade Singer in Complete Warrior. If your friend takes a close look at those two and then his ArcKnight, he might see where he's erred.

Anyway, good luck :D

Maraxus's suggestion is good :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ethicalsean 02-27-04, 02:29 AM	Alright, in a recent campaign I'm playing in, one of the players in the group threw out his homebrew PrC the "ArcKnight." Being familiar with this PrC from his brand of NPC > PC campaigns, I immediately chimed in about whether he honestly thought this behemoth was balanced. I was chastised by his wisdom (much like the wisdom to ac bonus granted to the arcknight) that it infact was quite balanced and that the Bladesinger was far superior to his arcknight... Now my question is, how overpowered is this prestige class. How many classes is it equivalent to? Or... am I that ignorant (as with the rest of the group) to DnD that I just don't see the inferiorty of this class. Arch Knight Requirements: Alignment: Any Base Attack Bonus: +5 Feats: Weapon Focus(any sword), Expertise, Still Spell, Combat Reflexes, Combat Casting Concentration: 6 ranks Knowledge Arcana: 6 ranks Spell Craft: 6 ranks Spells: Ability to cast arcane spells. Spells Per Day Level Att Bonus Fort Ref Will Abilites 1 + 1 +2 +2 +2 Weapon Finesse, Weapon of Choice 2 + 2 +3 +3 +3 Mastery of Shaping 3 + 3 +3 +3 +3 4 + 4 +4 +4 +4 Parry 5 + 5 +4 +4 +4 Weapon Specialization 3 1 6 + 6 +5 +5 +5 Lightning Blade 7 + 7 +5 +5 +5 8 + 8 +6 +6 +6 Blade Grasp 4 3 2 1 9 + 9 +6 +6 +6 10 +10 +7 +7 +7 Arcane Might Spells Per Day 1 2 3 4 5 1 1 2 2 1 3 1 3 2 1 4 2 1 4 3 2 1 5 4 3 1 5 4 4 2 1 Hit Die: d8. Class Skills: The arch knight's class skills are: Concentration, Craft, Jump, Knowledge (arcana), Listen, Profession, Spell Craft, Spot, Swim, Balance, and Tumble. Skill Points at each level: 4 + Int modifier Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An arc-kngiht is proficient with all simple, martial; light armor and medium armor, but not shields. Weapon of Choice: An arc-knight chooses one sword with which he has the weapon focus feat to become his weapon of choice. Once chosen it can never be changed. Arc-knights channel all of their spells through their chosen type of weapon. Without a weapon of their chosen drawn they cannot cast spells. Weapon Finesse: At 1st level an Arc-Knight may use his dexterity modifier instead of his strength modifier on attack rolls with his weapon of choice. Mastery of Shaping: An arc-knight is familiar with the close combat and spell casting. It often happens that a spell would damage a friend as well as foes. Because of this arch knights have developed their spells so they may shape their area of affect to harm only those they want within the spells range. In short an Arc-knight can take a full round action to make his spells only damage who they wish them to. Spells with a duration don't affect those an archknight would have wanted not to hurt when the spell is just cast. Parry: An Arc-Knight wielding his weapon of choice gains +2 deflection bonus to ac against one opponent or a +1 deflection bonus to all opponents. Weapon Specialization: At 5th level an Arc-knight gains the weapon specialization feat with his weapon of choice. Lightning Blade: An Arc-Knight of 8th level or higher adds his charisma modifier to iniative checks as well as dexterity modifier. Blade Grasp: An arc-knight is so familliar with the movements of melee combat that when he has at least one hand empty he can delfect(simple push away slightly) or dodge the attack which is coming at him. The Archknight add his wisdom modifier if possitive to his AC. Once per round if the arc-knight has both hands free he may attempt to grasp and disarm an opponent who just missed the arc-knight. Any weaponed disarmed in this fashion maybe instantly used by the archknight. Arcane Might: An Arch knight has mastered the ability to use spells quickly in combat. The Arch knight can automaticly quicken a number of spells equal to half his charisma modifier(maximum of 4 per day). Spells: Arc-knights know all the spells in their spell list; however, they do not cast spontanously. Arc-Knights perpare their spells each day, but not through the extensive book reading and studing of a wizard. An Arc-knight perpares his spells through Katas and Meditation. This process normally takes 1 hour and a minimum of 8 hours of rest is required before he can reprepare spells again. Since all arc-knight symatic components are through movements of the sword, Arc-knights do not suffer arcane spell failure when wearing light armor. Level 1: Sword Missile(ranged touched: 50ft+5ft/level, deals 1d8+level), Blade Wind(1d4/2 level max 5d4 in 15ft radius around caster reflex for half), True Strike, Bless Blade(as paladin's but on opposite alignement instead of just evil), Lesser Elemental Blade(adds 1d6 elemental damage, duration 1d6+level) Level 2: Sword Rain(1d4/level in 25ft radius around caster reflex for half; max 8d4), Keen Edge, Blade Beam(30ft+5ft/2 levels by 5ft line, 1d4/level refl for half; max 8d4), Bladed Ground(All movement is halved, cannot run, tumbling checks are increased by +15, anyone tripped automaticly take 1d10 reflex to negate damnage in a 30ft radius), Healing Wind(heals 1d6+1/2levels in 15 foot radius) Level 3: Crimson Blade(adds wounding blade), Vampiric Blade(upon each hit 1d6hp is absorbed), Chi Blade(adds +1 enchantment/4 levels max +4, this stacks with normal enchantments), Ring of Blades(As fireshield except slashing damage) Blade Spin(ranged touched: 30ft+5ft/level, 1d6/level; max 10d6) Level 4: Blade Cross(as blade beam but d6s and in 4 directions: infront, behind, left and right of you; max 15d6), Quicken Blade(adds speed enchantment), Blade Barrier, Curse Blade, Healing Rain(heals 1d6/2 levels in 25 foot radius) Level 5: Omnislash(+20 to attack on the next full attack action, 1 round duration), Diamond Cut(increase multiplier by level/5), Elemental Blade(adds any 3 of the elemental enchantments, or 3d6 of 1 type), Energy Blade(adds brilliant energy), BladeBlast(1d8/level in a 35ft radius blast centered on you; refl half;max 15d8)
Maraxus 02-27-04, 01:12 PM	1. Suggestion: Add a blank line between every two abilitys and write the name of the ability underlined or bold. 2. Comment:(You see how much easier it is to read this? ;)) I have seen worse classes than this. I would rate it with about 1.7 CR/Level. So you can tell him, he is allowed to take this class, if he adds the "Hard to master" - feature: Hart to master: The Ways of the Arch Knight are far supperior to minor classes. But it takes also more time and effort to lear and to master. Therefore, whenever the character gets a level in this prestige class, he suffers from a 40% experience penalty, untill he get's a level in another class. This is calculated from the one point that brought him the level. So, if he needs 100 points to level up, gets 1100 points and takes one level in Arch Knight, the rest of 1000 experience points will be reduced by 40% to 600 points.
Deladrion Garthin 02-27-04, 02:26 PM	Ooh, I like the Hard to Master idea, hehe I like that it has it's own spell list, but all of the homebrew spells makes it really difficult to make a judgement on them, since it's impossible to include a good, complete spell description with each of them. On all of the spells that should have a duration that I read, none of them do. However, one thing that I'd suggest is to make each die of damage subject to damage reduction on the spells that damage with blades and such. (ie. Blade Wind, Sword Missle, Blade Beam). This might take the power down a notch. The damage should still penetrate damage reduction of /magic, though. Also, the affect of the spells as caster level increases is a little weird... Chi Blade(adds +1 enchantment/4 levels max +4, this stacks with normal enchantments), Here it says +1/4 caster levels, but this a 10 level class. Technically the "max" is +3, not +4. The character's arcane caster level wouldn't stack with his ArcKnight level for determing spell effects, since the ArcKnight has it's own spell list. Make sure your friend knows that. But I can say that some of the spells are overpowered. Chi Blade, for instance. Enhancement bonuses should never stack. If you can get your friend to model his spells on those in the PHB, it would help. Full BAB and all good saves is a bad idea = Too powerful Blade Grasp is too powerful UNLESS it doesn't stack with armor bonuses Oh, and what is the primary spell casting attribute of the ArcKnight? (ie. Int, Wis, Cha?) Honestly, I think your friend should just look into the Spell Sword of the Blade Singer in Complete Warrior. If your friend takes a close look at those two and then his ArcKnight, he might see where he's erred. Anyway, good luck :D Maraxus's suggestion is good :D