Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Meep326 09-27-07, 12:06 AM	I started playing a ranger, and now me Animal Companion gains the two bonus HD, if I put the stat bump into Int what happens?
dman11235 09-27-07, 12:09 AM	Don't, it ceases to be an animal. The animal type has the definition of int 1 or 2, but it is possible to up it and technically not change the type. However, it is ill-advised. If you put it there, your AC has one more point of int. It's now an animal that cannot be. Most of the time when animals gain int over 2, they become magical beasts, but that's usually from templates.
runestar 09-27-07, 06:13 AM	To be fair, I am not sure if animal companions get the +1 stat boost from their 4th HD. Regardless, Can an animal increase its Intelligence when it gains an ability score increase at every 4 Hit Dice? If its Int increases beyond 2, does it become a magical beast? The Sage recommends that the DM not allow an animal (or any nonintelligent creature) to increase its Intelligence via HD advancement except as a very special case. Even the biggest 18-HD viper in the jungle shouldn’t be able to have an Intelligence of 4. Regardless, an animal’s type doesn’t change simply due to an Intelligence increase.
j3st3r 09-27-07, 06:53 AM	So an animal companion gets +1 to a chosen stat every 4HD (like PC's) including to the Str/Dex Adj? Didn't know that...
goawayugh 09-27-07, 07:44 AM	So an animal companion gets +1 to a chosen stat every 4HD (like PC's) including to the Str/Dex Adj? Didn't know that... ANY creature gains a stat increase every 4th and a feat every 3rd. EDIT: Any creature, unless it specifically states that it has special alternate advancement rules.
runestar 09-27-07, 08:05 AM	ANY creature gains a stat increase every 4th and a feat every 3rd. I beg to differ. There are a few creatures in the MM who do not get that +1 stat boost every 4th HD. MM3 has the redcap, while MM has the barghest. There might be a few more floating around.:D
goawayugh 09-27-07, 08:16 AM	I beg to differ. There are a few creatures in the MM who do not get that +1 stat boost every 4th HD. MM3 has the redcap, while MM has the barghest. There might be a few more floating around.:D Forgot about the barghest. As far as the redcap goes, I'm pretty sure it has special advancement rules as well, which are specifically stated in its entry. OK, so maybe I shouldn't have said "any" creature. "Any creature, unless it specifically states that it has special alternate advancement rules."
runestar 09-27-07, 10:17 AM	OK, so maybe I shouldn't have said "any" creature. "Any creature, unless it specifically states that it has special alternate advancement rules." And technically speaking, animal companions do have their own special rules for advancement...:P
goawayugh 09-27-07, 11:17 AM	Yes, but they don't say anything about when they gain stat increases. Whereas the examples you cited do. I don't know...maybe I'm wrong, but I've always assumed that animal companions get stat increases (and feats).
Ecalsneerg 09-27-07, 11:21 AM	I've always assumed that too. But why put a point in Int when you can put points into Strength, Dex, con, or even Wisdom for a tracking animal? 2 Int: 1 skill point per Animal HD. -4 Int modifier 3 Int: 1 skill point per Animal HD -4 Int modifier Admittedly, these would change if you did it twice, but the main advantage of Int 3 or higher is the ability to take class levels (arguably), but animal companions can't do that. They only gain Animal HD.
runestar 09-27-07, 01:00 PM	Well, if you ruled that int3 makes the animal a magical beast, that would confer on it the benefit of darkvision and improved HD (d8 increased to d10). That is about the only thing I can think off at the moment.:P
goawayugh 09-27-07, 01:04 PM	Not to mention that it now no longer qualifies as an animal companion.
dman11235 09-27-07, 01:19 PM	Bonus HD Extra eight-sided (d8) Hit Dice, each of which gains a Constitution modifier, as normal. Remember that extra Hit Dice improve the animal companion’s base attack and base save bonuses. An animal companion’s base attack bonus is the same as that of a druid of a level equal to the animal’s HD. An animal companion has good Fortitude and Reflex saves (treat it as a character whose level equals the animal’s HD). An animal companion gains additional skill points and feats for bonus HD as normal for advancing a monster’s Hit Dice. This is the SRD quote on HD for ACs. It doesn't say that they do gain stat increases, but it does say they gain skill points and feats as normal. I think that means that they don't gain stat increases, but I've always played that they do. It could be that they are just reminding you that they do gain the benifits of HD advancement though. @Runestar: int 3 doesn't make an animal a magical beast, but usually when an animal gains int 2< they become a magical beast as per the template you applied, because usually it's a template that gave it that int score.
runestar 09-27-07, 01:25 PM	@Runestar: int 3 doesn't make an animal a magical beast, but usually when an animal gains int 2< they become a magical beast as per the template you applied, because usually it's a template that gave it that int score. Well, it does say that no creature with an int of 3 or more can be an animal, so by definition, they would have to be something else. Though I suppose it does not outright state that no animal may not have an int of 3 or more (is there a difference? :P ).
3lv3s_R_43vr 09-27-07, 01:40 PM	Well, is there really a definate answer for this. If you "bought" (ugh, buying magic items commonly makes my stomache turn) a neck item, possibly a coller for your pet riding dog, maybe say a +6 intellegence item, would the riding dog really become that intellegent. Animals talking or having unanimalistic behavior kinda makes it not so much an animal nemore. I mean it is but it's not. I'm kinda against all this, but on that one episode of futurama, they gave the monkey the magical int hat... Now I'm uber confused...
dman11235 09-27-07, 01:47 PM	Well, it does say that no creature with an int of 3 or more can be an animal, so by definition, they would have to be something else. Though I suppose it does not outright state that no animal may not have an int of 3 or more (is there a difference? :P ). Yes there is. The words are in a different order. Other than that, I don't think so. So you give your AC a boost to int, and it now has no type! It can't be an animal, but it doesn't change type at the same time! I think we just broke the universe. @3lv3s_R_43vr: intelligence doesn't automatically give a creature the ability to speak. Your dog would still bark. It's just that only intelligent creatures can. Your dog would just be extremely good at tactics for a dog. And learns how to roll over is a fraction of the time. Oh, and that's Futurama. Fry packs air into a suitcase and a shell burns underwater. Animal Type An animal is a living, nonhuman creature, usually a vertebrate with no magical abilities and no innate capacity for language or culture. Features An animal has the following features (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry). * 8-sided Hit Dice. * Base attack bonus equal to ¾ total Hit Dice (as cleric). * Good Fortitude and Reflex saves (certain animals have different good saves, for instance dire animals have good Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saves). * Skill points equal to (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die. Traits An animal possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry). * Intelligence score of 1 or 2 (no creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher can be an animal). * Low-light vision. * Alignment: Always neutral. * Treasure: None. * Proficient with its natural weapons only. A noncombative herbivore uses its natural weapons as a secondary attack. Such attacks are made with a -5 penalty on the creature’s attack rolls, and the animal receives only ½ its Strength modifier as a damage adjustment. * Proficient with no armor unless trained for war. * Animals eat, sleep, and breathe.
madbliza 09-27-07, 02:27 PM	I would say, yes you could put a point in INT if you want. The HD advancement of animal companion is the same as advancing a Monsters HD (exceptions noted in previous posts). It is possible to have a smart Animal and it makes sense since the creature can already learn more tricks then a regular animal of its type that it has the capacity for increased intelligence. An increase in INT means you get more skill points per level and it can learn more animal tricks. However, a Ranger's animal companion pales in comparison to a Druid's. So the real question is why would you put a point in INT?
dman11235 09-27-07, 02:58 PM	But then you get the problem of it not having a type anymore. And the FAQ stuff. You can, but you really shouldn't. Even if it was a druid's and you could afford to. Besides, the so-called "smart" animals have int 2, and the dumb ones are int 1. Even the dolphin, considered to be as intelligent as humans, are int 2. Same deal with wolves and monkeys and octopi. And ants have no int score.
madbliza 09-27-07, 04:36 PM	I looked further into this. In this case I would say that your animal would be considered a Magical Beast. In any case in which an animal companion gains a bonus to their INT the animal is considered to be a Magical Beast. In the case of Familiars, they are considered to be Magical Beast due to their INT increase. The same is true if you Awaken an animal. That being said, a magical beast cannot be an animal companion according to the rules. So yes, you can increase the animal's INT but don't be mad if your DM says the animal just wonders off one day.
DM Zoc 09-27-07, 04:58 PM	It's basically the same question, as pointed out above, as giving a monkey a hat a of +6 Int. I would rule that the animal becomes sentient, and leave it at that. There's nothing stopping you from casting Fox's Cunning on a fox to make it a better scout (assuming you can also speak with animals... or teach it common). Personally, I consider upping the animal companion's Int to be the best way to advance it. Once it's sentient, it becomes a much better companion and less of a mere pet. I certainly don't see how making it smarter would spontaneously grant it darkvision. Maybe grant it the (Augmented) subtype instead.
dman11235 09-27-07, 05:02 PM	It wouldn't change anything in the type, other than no longer being an animal.
DM Zoc 09-27-07, 05:47 PM	I would argue that it is still of the Animal type, unless you're arguing that it loses the animal type if you cast Fox's Cunning on it. I was just arguing against those who want to change the type to Magical Beast.
dman11235 09-27-07, 06:15 PM	See, the animal type says that "no creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher can be an animal", so yeah... And you're right, it's type will not change to magical beast. It just usually does as per the template you applied to give it more int. This is just another one of those things that is weird about D&D. There's no way you can do it, except you can.
FrostWolf 09-28-07, 09:08 AM	An int of 3 will allow the pet to learn more tricks. And allow me to propose that history is full of animals that are smarter than the norm, so why not also in a relm of magic?
j3st3r 09-28-07, 01:08 PM	I'd exclude the ability increase/4HD from animal companions, even if it doesn't say so in the text. IMHO animal companion only gains those benefits from increased HD that are mentioned in the text. And if I'd want my animal companion to learn more tricks, I'd give them Extra Tricks feat (CAdv).
Meep326 09-29-07, 06:25 PM	Sorry I havn't come back earlier, but me internets a bit wonky. As to why I want to raise Int rather than the other stats, I was just wondering what would happen. The type shouldn't change, as no template is being applied, reasoning behind this is that Animal Companions are above and beyond the normal for their type. Thanks for the responses.
Sexy_ferret 09-30-07, 03:32 AM	Umm guys. Just to let you all know. An animal companion is already treated as a magical beast once it becomes an animal companion. The first paragraph on page 36 under The druids animal companion 3.5. Same with the palladians mount. I also looked in the SRD they seem to leave some of the important stuff like this out. So increasing its int would do really nothing. Other then making the spell ray of stupidity possably not work on the AC. Since no where under handle animal does it mention a creatures tricks are based of int. Other then an animal with an int of 2 can learn 6 tricks. So increasing its Int will do nothing.
j3st3r 09-30-07, 06:19 AM	Umm guys. Just to let you all know. An animal companion is already treated as a magical beast once it becomes an animal companion. The first paragraph on page 36 under The druids animal companion 3.5. Same with the palladians mount. I also looked in the SRD they seem to leave some of the important stuff like this out. So increasing its int would do really nothing. Other then making the spell ray of stupidity possably not work on the AC. Since no where under handle animal does it mention a creatures tricks are based of int. Other then an animal with an int of 2 can learn 6 tricks. So increasing its Int will do nothing. Obviously you haven't read the ERRATA (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/errata) for the Player's Handbook, which specifically states that druids (or rangers for that matter) animal companion doesn't become magical beast.
Ecalsneerg 09-30-07, 06:22 AM	It used to be a magical beast? Dammit, animals do the craziest things.