Animal Companion progression [Archive] - Wizards Community

Animal Companion progression [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
polsemager
02-23-04, 07:22 AM I just created a druid for the first time and elected a wolf as an animal companion.

When the druid goes from 3rd to 4th level the wolf "improves", but is it really as much as I think?

The wolf Gains:

+1str
+1 dex
+2 Natural armor
+1 extra skill

AND

2 HD...meaning it has 4 now

A wolf of 4 HD is LARGE giving it additionally:

+8 str
-2 dex
+4 con
+2 Natural armor
Reach
-1 attack and -1 AC
1d8 instead of 1d6 as base damage
+1 stat (con)
+1 feat (not sure which)

This actually means my wolfie at my 4th level has

Str 22, Dex 14, Con 20
38ish HP
attack +9
Improved trip with +17 to the check
Nice grapple too

Pretty wild...is it really so?
Thermanshs
02-23-04, 07:27 AM If it's on the PHB then it's correct(for me it is)
FunkyTrip
02-23-04, 07:41 AM I recall the wolf is still considered medium, so it would not gain all the size increase bonuses.
Sir Ferdinand
02-23-04, 08:08 AM Those extra HDs don't increase the size of the creature. PHB lists all things that those HDs increase, and size isn't included.
polsemager
02-23-04, 08:33 AM Actually it says in PHB (or at least in the SRD):

Use the base statistics for a creature of the companion’s kind, but make the following changes.

And then nothing about size.......
TaisharMalkier
02-23-04, 01:38 PM Zug Zug.

In the PHB is specifically states the animal does not change size. Shrug.

Animal companions are simple to figure out which ones you want:

The first ones end up with the highest AC. Whup de freaking do.

The higher you go, the more hits they have and damage they do.

I'd either end up with a Dire Wolf (for trip) or a Dire Tiger (for damage).

Cheers
polsemager
02-26-04, 12:20 PM Although I agre that it's probably not meant to increase I don't see anywhere stated that animal companions' Size doesn't increase.
Verity
03-14-04, 12:58 AM Just last week I posted pretty much the same question you did. In the downloadable official FAQ it states the size does not change.

I wish I knew how to find it or show a link, but trust me, it's official. No size change even though HD goes up. I was a little disappointed, but it makes the upgrade a lot easier to figure out.
polsemager
03-14-04, 02:01 AM To be honest it would probably be quite unbalanced if it did too.
BW0222
03-14-04, 11:53 AM The official 3.5 FAQ is at: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a

Animal companions do not gain extra hit dice -- they gain bonus hit dice. A wolf animal companion is not a 4hd wolf -- it is a 2hd wolf with 2 bonus hit dice. It gains the BAB, skill points, feats, bonus feats, stat increases, tricks, etc. listed in the PHB under the animal companion rules.

These bonus hit dice (and what they grant) go away when you dismiss the animal companion, when the druid loses a level (depending upon the level), if the druid becomes a prohibited alignment, if the animal was polymorphed into some other creature type, etc.

Thanks,

Brett
Verity
03-14-04, 04:59 PM Just to really beat this into the ground... in case you didn't check yet, it's on page 4 when using the FQ link. I copied it here for anyone else who might need it:

<<When you add Hit Dice to a druid’s (or ranger’s)
animal companion as the master’s level goes up, does the
animal get any bigger? For instance, when a druid has a
wolf companion, the wolf starts out with the standard 2 Hit
Dice and is size Medium. By the time the druid is 3rd level,
the wolf has 2 bonus Hit Dice. According to the wolf entry
in the Monster Manual, an “advanced” wolf with 4 Hit Dice
would be Large. Is the example companion wolf also
Large?
An animal companion doesn’t get bigger when it adds extra
Hit Dice for the master’s levels. The advancement entries for
creatures, and the rules for advancing monsters, refer to
unusually powerful specimens that are simply tougher (and
perhaps bigger) than normal for their kinds.>>
Full Quiver
03-24-04, 01:52 PM Does any know if the bonus hd grant the inherent stat bonus given at 4th lvl to animal companion?
BlackFiend
03-24-04, 10:17 PM Yes. He gains feats and skill points as he "levels" if you will.
phb
03-26-04, 07:06 AM Originally posted by Full Quiver
Does any know if the bonus hd grant the inherent stat bonus given at 4th lvl to animal companion?

No. These are defined in the Monster Manual in the same advancement section as size. If you don't get size, you don't get these.
polsemager
03-26-04, 10:06 AM OK...so the question is two things:

1) Does it get the stat

2) Does it get the feats and skills?
Disturbed1
03-26-04, 11:24 AM as the animal companion progresses wiht you he gets bonus hd. so if you awaken him or dismiss or anything, then he goes back to bein his crappy 2hd self.

when he gains the bonus hd for your lvl, he DOES gain stat points every 4th lvl, a feat every 3rd lvl and skl points according to his int mod(always at least 1 pt gained)

if he is awakened or dismissed or anything, then he loses all those too

he also DOES NOT increase in size for these bonus hd.

hope that clears things up

dis1
dedric
03-26-04, 03:55 PM From the SRD:
Animal Companion Basics: Use the base statistics for a creature of the companion’s kind, but make the following changes.

AND

Bonus HD: Extra eight-sided (d8) Hit Dice, each of which gains a Constitution modifier, as normal. Remember that extra Hit Dice improve the animal companion’s base attack and base save bonuses. An animal companion’s base attack bonus is the same as that of a druid of a level equal to the animal’s HD. An animal companion has good Fortitude and Reflex saves (treat it as a character whose level equals the animal’s HD). An animal companion gains additional skill points and feats for bonus HD as normal for advancing a monster’s Hit Dice.

The section on animal companion lists everything that a companion gets from these bonus HD, and then it goes on to say that "An animal companion gains additional skill points and feats for bonus HD as normal for advancing a monster’s Hit Dice. Notice there is nothing about any increase in abilities that would normally be part of advancing a monster's HD. The only ability increases a creature should get are those that are listed on the chart for animal companions. So unless someone can provide some other evidence in the rules, then I would say no, the animal companion does not get a +1 bonus to add to an ability every fourth level.

All of this is only my opinion and I could be wrong but I can find nothing in the section dealing with animal companions that would cause me to believe what I posted above is not correct.

Dedric
MaverickWolf
03-26-04, 04:24 PM *is now disappointed*

And I wanted a wolf big enough to use as a mount....I still don't see why not though....They're always showing pics of druids with companions much much bigger than them, and even dire animals don't outclass them in size that much.....((Epic level handbook w/ that over-sized tiger anyone...))

Then again, being the DM....*smirks* Ok, so my co-DM happens to agree with me.

Here's an idea I just came up with. Allow characters to get pre-advanced animals for companions. For every extra hit die the animal has, subtract 1 from the druid's level to determine extra abilities granted for being an animal companion. If they have enough to increase their size, then subtract an extra 1 from the druid's level to determine bonuses. Example: 3-HD advanced wolf would subtract 1 from the druid's level for bonus purposes, while a 4-HD (now Large size) would subtract 3.
Verity
03-29-04, 01:19 AM Good grief already...

this companion upgrade business is almost more trouble than it's worth (almost.... not quite). I'm ready for 4.0 so they can clear up all the technicalities.

I still have a half finished wolf companion character sheet..

blah!

(and hahaha... that tiger.. very inspiring.)
Disturbed1
03-29-04, 05:55 PM in the MM1 under advancing a monster, it shows on a chart that at every 4th hd the animal gets an exrtra stat point, and every 3rd hd he gets a feat, and every hd gets skl pts according to his int(you always get at least 1 pt per hd).

i might be wrong on this, havent looked at it in awhile, but i was lookin at 3.5, ill check again when i go ho for the evening.

dis1
Auldrek
03-30-04, 11:42 PM Good lord can this be anymore complicated?

Ok so I get all the benefits of advancing the HDs EXCEPT an increase in size? and that also means I do not get the attribute adjustments such as +8 to str and -2 to dex? I only get the stat changes listed in the Players Handbook right?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
polsemager 02-23-04, 07:22 AM	I just created a druid for the first time and elected a wolf as an animal companion. When the druid goes from 3rd to 4th level the wolf "improves", but is it really as much as I think? The wolf Gains: +1str +1 dex +2 Natural armor +1 extra skill AND 2 HD...meaning it has 4 now A wolf of 4 HD is LARGE giving it additionally: +8 str -2 dex +4 con +2 Natural armor Reach -1 attack and -1 AC 1d8 instead of 1d6 as base damage +1 stat (con) +1 feat (not sure which) This actually means my wolfie at my 4th level has Str 22, Dex 14, Con 20 38ish HP attack +9 Improved trip with +17 to the check Nice grapple too Pretty wild...is it really so?
Thermanshs 02-23-04, 07:27 AM	If it's on the PHB then it's correct(for me it is)
FunkyTrip 02-23-04, 07:41 AM	I recall the wolf is still considered medium, so it would not gain all the size increase bonuses.
Sir Ferdinand 02-23-04, 08:08 AM	Those extra HDs don't increase the size of the creature. PHB lists all things that those HDs increase, and size isn't included.
polsemager 02-23-04, 08:33 AM	Actually it says in PHB (or at least in the SRD): Use the base statistics for a creature of the companion’s kind, but make the following changes. And then nothing about size.......
TaisharMalkier 02-23-04, 01:38 PM	Zug Zug. In the PHB is specifically states the animal does not change size. Shrug. Animal companions are simple to figure out which ones you want: The first ones end up with the highest AC. Whup de freaking do. The higher you go, the more hits they have and damage they do. I'd either end up with a Dire Wolf (for trip) or a Dire Tiger (for damage). Cheers
polsemager 02-26-04, 12:20 PM	Although I agre that it's probably not meant to increase I don't see anywhere stated that animal companions' Size doesn't increase.
Verity 03-14-04, 12:58 AM	Just last week I posted pretty much the same question you did. In the downloadable official FAQ it states the size does not change. I wish I knew how to find it or show a link, but trust me, it's official. No size change even though HD goes up. I was a little disappointed, but it makes the upgrade a lot easier to figure out.
polsemager 03-14-04, 02:01 AM	To be honest it would probably be quite unbalanced if it did too.
BW0222 03-14-04, 11:53 AM	The official 3.5 FAQ is at: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a Animal companions do not gain extra hit dice -- they gain bonus hit dice. A wolf animal companion is not a 4hd wolf -- it is a 2hd wolf with 2 bonus hit dice. It gains the BAB, skill points, feats, bonus feats, stat increases, tricks, etc. listed in the PHB under the animal companion rules. These bonus hit dice (and what they grant) go away when you dismiss the animal companion, when the druid loses a level (depending upon the level), if the druid becomes a prohibited alignment, if the animal was polymorphed into some other creature type, etc. Thanks, Brett
Verity 03-14-04, 04:59 PM	Just to really beat this into the ground... in case you didn't check yet, it's on page 4 when using the FQ link. I copied it here for anyone else who might need it: <<When you add Hit Dice to a druid’s (or ranger’s) animal companion as the master’s level goes up, does the animal get any bigger? For instance, when a druid has a wolf companion, the wolf starts out with the standard 2 Hit Dice and is size Medium. By the time the druid is 3rd level, the wolf has 2 bonus Hit Dice. According to the wolf entry in the Monster Manual, an “advanced” wolf with 4 Hit Dice would be Large. Is the example companion wolf also Large? An animal companion doesn’t get bigger when it adds extra Hit Dice for the master’s levels. The advancement entries for creatures, and the rules for advancing monsters, refer to unusually powerful specimens that are simply tougher (and perhaps bigger) than normal for their kinds.>>
Full Quiver 03-24-04, 01:52 PM	Does any know if the bonus hd grant the inherent stat bonus given at 4th lvl to animal companion?
BlackFiend 03-24-04, 10:17 PM	Yes. He gains feats and skill points as he "levels" if you will.
phb 03-26-04, 07:06 AM	Originally posted by Full Quiver Does any know if the bonus hd grant the inherent stat bonus given at 4th lvl to animal companion? No. These are defined in the Monster Manual in the same advancement section as size. If you don't get size, you don't get these.
polsemager 03-26-04, 10:06 AM	OK...so the question is two things: 1) Does it get the stat 2) Does it get the feats and skills?
Disturbed1 03-26-04, 11:24 AM	as the animal companion progresses wiht you he gets bonus hd. so if you awaken him or dismiss or anything, then he goes back to bein his crappy 2hd self. when he gains the bonus hd for your lvl, he DOES gain stat points every 4th lvl, a feat every 3rd lvl and skl points according to his int mod(always at least 1 pt gained) if he is awakened or dismissed or anything, then he loses all those too he also DOES NOT increase in size for these bonus hd. hope that clears things up dis1
dedric 03-26-04, 03:55 PM	From the SRD: Animal Companion Basics: Use the base statistics for a creature of the companion’s kind, but make the following changes. AND Bonus HD: Extra eight-sided (d8) Hit Dice, each of which gains a Constitution modifier, as normal. Remember that extra Hit Dice improve the animal companion’s base attack and base save bonuses. An animal companion’s base attack bonus is the same as that of a druid of a level equal to the animal’s HD. An animal companion has good Fortitude and Reflex saves (treat it as a character whose level equals the animal’s HD). An animal companion gains additional skill points and feats for bonus HD as normal for advancing a monster’s Hit Dice. The section on animal companion lists everything that a companion gets from these bonus HD, and then it goes on to say that "An animal companion gains additional skill points and feats for bonus HD as normal for advancing a monster’s Hit Dice. Notice there is nothing about any increase in abilities that would normally be part of advancing a monster's HD. The only ability increases a creature should get are those that are listed on the chart for animal companions. So unless someone can provide some other evidence in the rules, then I would say no, the animal companion does not get a +1 bonus to add to an ability every fourth level. All of this is only my opinion and I could be wrong but I can find nothing in the section dealing with animal companions that would cause me to believe what I posted above is not correct. Dedric
MaverickWolf 03-26-04, 04:24 PM	is now disappointed And I wanted a wolf big enough to use as a mount....I still don't see why not though....They're always showing pics of druids with companions much much bigger than them, and even dire animals don't outclass them in size that much.....((Epic level handbook w/ that over-sized tiger anyone...)) Then again, being the DM....smirks Ok, so my co-DM happens to agree with me. Here's an idea I just came up with. Allow characters to get pre-advanced animals for companions. For every extra hit die the animal has, subtract 1 from the druid's level to determine extra abilities granted for being an animal companion. If they have enough to increase their size, then subtract an extra 1 from the druid's level to determine bonuses. Example: 3-HD advanced wolf would subtract 1 from the druid's level for bonus purposes, while a 4-HD (now Large size) would subtract 3.
Verity 03-29-04, 01:19 AM	Good grief already... this companion upgrade business is almost more trouble than it's worth (almost.... not quite). I'm ready for 4.0 so they can clear up all the technicalities. I still have a half finished wolf companion character sheet.. blah! (and hahaha... that tiger.. very inspiring.)
Disturbed1 03-29-04, 05:55 PM	in the MM1 under advancing a monster, it shows on a chart that at every 4th hd the animal gets an exrtra stat point, and every 3rd hd he gets a feat, and every hd gets skl pts according to his int(you always get at least 1 pt per hd). i might be wrong on this, havent looked at it in awhile, but i was lookin at 3.5, ill check again when i go ho for the evening. dis1
Auldrek 03-30-04, 11:42 PM	Good lord can this be anymore complicated? Ok so I get all the benefits of advancing the HDs EXCEPT an increase in size? and that also means I do not get the attribute adjustments such as +8 to str and -2 to dex? I only get the stat changes listed in the Players Handbook right?