Animal companions slowing down my game [Archive] - Wizards Community

Animal companions slowing down my game [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ao
06-28-04, 10:12 PM The DMG suggests eliminating the leadership feat and thus eliminating cohorts if theoretically adding another character would slow the pace of the game. But... what about animal companions, familiars and special mounts? Please give me some suggestions for alternate special abilities so I can speed up my game again.
BlaineTog
06-28-04, 10:19 PM Leadership: This requires special DM approval to even take it. There's nothing to ban since its not really part of the rules to begin with.

Animal Companions: Be sure to give the ranger and druid something back in return (as we all know how precarios the balance of the druid is :rolleyes: ). Although considering that these generally only have simple actions (ie "attack, move" etc), I woudln't worry about it a whole lot.

Familiars: These virtually never take actions IMX. I wouldn't bother.

Special Mounts: The Paladin's mount moves with the Paladin, generally. Leave it.
Ao
06-28-04, 10:34 PM First of all... I know the leadership feat is optional. I was simply stating that there is provision given for excess characters slowing the pace of the game. Animal companions, familiars, and special mounts (at least in my game) do take actions. They are instructed by their Masters' to attact, to track and a number of things throughout the course of play. I have a large party of players, all of which agree with me about this problem. I have suggested that they split their party but they would rather stay together and are even willing to give up their animal companions, etc. I need suggestions on what to replace these abilities with.
necrosnoop110
06-28-04, 10:48 PM Out of curiosity how many players we talking about here?
Ithilorien
06-28-04, 10:57 PM My last DM ruled no animal companions, cohorts, familiars, mounts, pets, mascots, stuffed animals, logs &c. allowed in our last game and I don't think any D&D decision has ever made me happier. In general all tehy do is become irritating plot points and slow down battles to a crawl.

We didn't notice any particular detriment to the characters deprived of their respective underlings.
Ao
06-28-04, 10:58 PM 8 players, 1 special mount, 2 animal companions, 1 cohort and 2 familiars. It's almost too much to take... with these heavy role-players of mine, we can usually move through about 2 encounters in an 8 hour playing session.
BlaineTog
06-28-04, 11:14 PM Originally posted by Ao
8 players,Right there's your problem. I realize that they don't want to split, but since they number twice the standard party size, its probably for the best. I've played in groups like that, and we moved at a snails pace. We didn't even have subsidiary characters (animal companion, familar, etc.).

It's almost too much to take... with these heavy role-players of mine, we can usually move through about 2 encounters in an 8 hour playing session.I've said it before and I'll say it again: if you guys don't like combat, don't do it.
Moonstonedragon
06-28-04, 11:56 PM Do they control the companions or do you?
I as a player control mine and it doesnt seem to take longer then I would without one.
Bulabase
06-29-04, 12:07 PM Unearthed Arcana has some alternate rules for stuff like this. You could probably find something that would work.

On another note, I could not imagine running a group with that many players. If you can't split the group, you might want to consider finding an assistant DM. With a group of six combat can often come to a grinding halt. Eight is simply too much for one person to handle IMHO.
Bulabase
06-29-04, 12:11 PM Unearthed Arcana has some alternate rules for stuff like this. You could probably find something that would work. I don't see how a special mount could cause a problem. Assuming it is a paladin's special mount, either the paladin rides it, or it isn't there.

On another note, I could not imagine running a group with that many players. If you can't split the group, you might want to consider finding an assistant DM. With a group of six combat can often come to a grinding halt. Eight is simply too much for one person to handle IMHO.
Himo
06-29-04, 01:17 PM I agree, 8 players are simply too many.
In our group we peaked at 6 and we already thought it was the maximum we could tolerate.
I don't think that the slow pace should be blamed on the pets, 8 players are simply too many, it is going to go slow no matter what you do.

Some suggestions:

- Let the paladin keep the mount if he already has mounted feats.
- Suggest them to exchange their familiar, companion, mount for 1 extra spell at their highest level they can cast. Although it could sound too much at first glance, it is really not that much. What you are giving them in exchange of a pet is a little better than an upgradeable pearl of power. It is a power that they can buy with money and is not that expensive.
IMO companions and mounts are better than familiars. So maybe you could grant the following exchanges:
Wizards/Sorcerers: One extra spell at max level they can cast.
Druids, Ranger: One extra spell at max level, and another one at one level less
Paladins: Two extra spells at max level and another one at one level less.

- Try to make combats more dynamic and fast. One tool I use to achieve this is letting them just 6 seconds to decide their action, if they haven't decided by theen, they lose 5 to their initiative and you move to the next.

- Give some responsibility/book keeping to your players. One of the best tools we've come up in my group is writing numbers from 1 to 30 on the side of the map and cut some cardboard squares with each character name and some more for the bad guys. When you roll initiative you place the names on the numbers and the DM can move from player to player with just a glance. Changing initiatives (slow decisions, ready actions, etc) just moves your name in the table.

- Let your players keep track of the non important foes HPs. That will reduce your work. We do that by placing a number by each of the figures and write a table in a piece of paper, one of the players is in charge of keeping track of the grunts’ HP every combat.

- Encourage your players to keep conversations in-game. Reward the best 2 or 3 players at that by an extra XP per session (50 at first level, 100, second, 150 at third level, and so on and so forth)

- Try to solve any buying/selling activities between sessions.

- If the players don't want to break the party... don't.
Big Dawg
06-29-04, 01:28 PM animal companions can be a pain more so if the player who has one refuses to release it when he goes into terrain it is unfit for.

It's freaking lame. It's a god damn animal companion get over it and realease it. you can get a new one in 24 hours. and you can get the old one back again 24 hours after that.
ninjarabbit
06-29-04, 06:01 PM I say a bonus feat to replace them would work.
Himo
06-29-04, 06:26 PM Originally posted by ninjarabbit
I say a bonus feat to replace them would work.
Yep, that is a better idea.
I would make a small change though. Since mounts and Druid's animal companions are much better than the rest I would grant 1 extra feat for sorcerers, wizards and rangers and 2 for druids and paladins.
Also, I would grant them at level 5 (and 10 for the second one) instead of level 1 to avoid multiclass abuse.
Bulabase
06-29-04, 08:02 PM A familiar is worth allertness and a skill focus just to replace the bonuses it grants.
ninjarabbit
06-29-04, 08:16 PM Originally posted by Bulabase
A familiar is worth allertness and a skill focus just to replace the bonuses it grants.

True, but choice of any feat is worth more than two so-so feats imo.
Ao
06-29-04, 09:22 PM Thanks for the ideas... if you have any more info I'd appreciate it. By the way, my new campaign has only 3 players. Ahhhhhh.:)
yebvas
06-29-04, 11:58 PM We have 7 players and go through 4-10 or more encounters a session. We roleplay, we do our quests. And have none of the problems stated before. (Our encounters being 30-50 enemies each)

I wouldn't get rid of my Raven familiar- ever. He is the best scout you could have. He see's enemy, I tell group, we ambush said enemy. Well, until the nasty shaman summons an eagle to eat the raven. But thats another story.

We dont allow druids though, and we have no paladin, so I guess we dont have all the same issues, but I would hardly think a wolf and horse would be that much worse.
Bulabase
06-30-04, 12:10 AM Originally posted by yebvas
We have 7 players and go through 4-10 or more encounters a session. We roleplay, we do our quests. And have none of the problems stated before. (Our encounters being 30-50 enemies each)

How do you do this? It seems rather fast to me. I would love to get things moving like this in the games I run and those in which I play.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ao 06-28-04, 10:12 PM	The DMG suggests eliminating the leadership feat and thus eliminating cohorts if theoretically adding another character would slow the pace of the game. But... what about animal companions, familiars and special mounts? Please give me some suggestions for alternate special abilities so I can speed up my game again.
BlaineTog 06-28-04, 10:19 PM	Leadership: This requires special DM approval to even take it. There's nothing to ban since its not really part of the rules to begin with. Animal Companions: Be sure to give the ranger and druid something back in return (as we all know how precarios the balance of the druid is :rolleyes: ). Although considering that these generally only have simple actions (ie "attack, move" etc), I woudln't worry about it a whole lot. Familiars: These virtually never take actions IMX. I wouldn't bother. Special Mounts: The Paladin's mount moves with the Paladin, generally. Leave it.
Ao 06-28-04, 10:34 PM	First of all... I know the leadership feat is optional. I was simply stating that there is provision given for excess characters slowing the pace of the game. Animal companions, familiars, and special mounts (at least in my game) do take actions. They are instructed by their Masters' to attact, to track and a number of things throughout the course of play. I have a large party of players, all of which agree with me about this problem. I have suggested that they split their party but they would rather stay together and are even willing to give up their animal companions, etc. I need suggestions on what to replace these abilities with.
necrosnoop110 06-28-04, 10:48 PM	Out of curiosity how many players we talking about here?
Ithilorien 06-28-04, 10:57 PM	My last DM ruled no animal companions, cohorts, familiars, mounts, pets, mascots, stuffed animals, logs &c. allowed in our last game and I don't think any D&D decision has ever made me happier. In general all tehy do is become irritating plot points and slow down battles to a crawl. We didn't notice any particular detriment to the characters deprived of their respective underlings.
Ao 06-28-04, 10:58 PM	8 players, 1 special mount, 2 animal companions, 1 cohort and 2 familiars. It's almost too much to take... with these heavy role-players of mine, we can usually move through about 2 encounters in an 8 hour playing session.
BlaineTog 06-28-04, 11:14 PM	Originally posted by Ao 8 players,Right there's your problem. I realize that they don't want to split, but since they number twice the standard party size, its probably for the best. I've played in groups like that, and we moved at a snails pace. We didn't even have subsidiary characters (animal companion, familar, etc.). It's almost too much to take... with these heavy role-players of mine, we can usually move through about 2 encounters in an 8 hour playing session.I've said it before and I'll say it again: if you guys don't like combat, don't do it.
Moonstonedragon 06-28-04, 11:56 PM	Do they control the companions or do you? I as a player control mine and it doesnt seem to take longer then I would without one.
Bulabase 06-29-04, 12:07 PM	Unearthed Arcana has some alternate rules for stuff like this. You could probably find something that would work. On another note, I could not imagine running a group with that many players. If you can't split the group, you might want to consider finding an assistant DM. With a group of six combat can often come to a grinding halt. Eight is simply too much for one person to handle IMHO.
Bulabase 06-29-04, 12:11 PM	Unearthed Arcana has some alternate rules for stuff like this. You could probably find something that would work. I don't see how a special mount could cause a problem. Assuming it is a paladin's special mount, either the paladin rides it, or it isn't there. On another note, I could not imagine running a group with that many players. If you can't split the group, you might want to consider finding an assistant DM. With a group of six combat can often come to a grinding halt. Eight is simply too much for one person to handle IMHO.
Himo 06-29-04, 01:17 PM	I agree, 8 players are simply too many. In our group we peaked at 6 and we already thought it was the maximum we could tolerate. I don't think that the slow pace should be blamed on the pets, 8 players are simply too many, it is going to go slow no matter what you do. Some suggestions: - Let the paladin keep the mount if he already has mounted feats. - Suggest them to exchange their familiar, companion, mount for 1 extra spell at their highest level they can cast. Although it could sound too much at first glance, it is really not that much. What you are giving them in exchange of a pet is a little better than an upgradeable pearl of power. It is a power that they can buy with money and is not that expensive. IMO companions and mounts are better than familiars. So maybe you could grant the following exchanges: Wizards/Sorcerers: One extra spell at max level they can cast. Druids, Ranger: One extra spell at max level, and another one at one level less Paladins: Two extra spells at max level and another one at one level less. - Try to make combats more dynamic and fast. One tool I use to achieve this is letting them just 6 seconds to decide their action, if they haven't decided by theen, they lose 5 to their initiative and you move to the next. - Give some responsibility/book keeping to your players. One of the best tools we've come up in my group is writing numbers from 1 to 30 on the side of the map and cut some cardboard squares with each character name and some more for the bad guys. When you roll initiative you place the names on the numbers and the DM can move from player to player with just a glance. Changing initiatives (slow decisions, ready actions, etc) just moves your name in the table. - Let your players keep track of the non important foes HPs. That will reduce your work. We do that by placing a number by each of the figures and write a table in a piece of paper, one of the players is in charge of keeping track of the grunts’ HP every combat. - Encourage your players to keep conversations in-game. Reward the best 2 or 3 players at that by an extra XP per session (50 at first level, 100, second, 150 at third level, and so on and so forth) - Try to solve any buying/selling activities between sessions. - If the players don't want to break the party... don't.
Big Dawg 06-29-04, 01:28 PM	animal companions can be a pain more so if the player who has one refuses to release it when he goes into terrain it is unfit for. It's freaking lame. It's a god damn animal companion get over it and realease it. you can get a new one in 24 hours. and you can get the old one back again 24 hours after that.
ninjarabbit 06-29-04, 06:01 PM	I say a bonus feat to replace them would work.
Himo 06-29-04, 06:26 PM	Originally posted by ninjarabbit I say a bonus feat to replace them would work. Yep, that is a better idea. I would make a small change though. Since mounts and Druid's animal companions are much better than the rest I would grant 1 extra feat for sorcerers, wizards and rangers and 2 for druids and paladins. Also, I would grant them at level 5 (and 10 for the second one) instead of level 1 to avoid multiclass abuse.
Bulabase 06-29-04, 08:02 PM	A familiar is worth allertness and a skill focus just to replace the bonuses it grants.
ninjarabbit 06-29-04, 08:16 PM	Originally posted by Bulabase A familiar is worth allertness and a skill focus just to replace the bonuses it grants. True, but choice of any feat is worth more than two so-so feats imo.
Ao 06-29-04, 09:22 PM	Thanks for the ideas... if you have any more info I'd appreciate it. By the way, my new campaign has only 3 players. Ahhhhhh.:)
yebvas 06-29-04, 11:58 PM	We have 7 players and go through 4-10 or more encounters a session. We roleplay, we do our quests. And have none of the problems stated before. (Our encounters being 30-50 enemies each) I wouldn't get rid of my Raven familiar- ever. He is the best scout you could have. He see's enemy, I tell group, we ambush said enemy. Well, until the nasty shaman summons an eagle to eat the raven. But thats another story. We dont allow druids though, and we have no paladin, so I guess we dont have all the same issues, but I would hardly think a wolf and horse would be that much worse.
Bulabase 06-30-04, 12:10 AM	Originally posted by yebvas We have 7 players and go through 4-10 or more encounters a session. We roleplay, we do our quests. And have none of the problems stated before. (Our encounters being 30-50 enemies each) How do you do this? It seems rather fast to me. I would love to get things moving like this in the games I run and those in which I play.