Post/Author/DateTime	Post
roll8dn 07-28-04, 08:47 PM	Walking his patrol along the castle parapet, Isaac checked the shadows ahead of him. There appeared to be nothing amiss; all of the sentries were in place in the towers. The night grew thicker about him as he walked from one torch to another, looking down at the wall to see if there was anyone attempting to gain access to the keep. He passed a shadow, and it suddenly started into motion behind him. Isaac never saw the blade that ended his life, never shouted out in warning to the other sentries. He never knew that the Ninja were come to Reasdal Keep... The Ninja are spies, fighters of the first class, stealthy shadows hinted at in popular literature but never really identified. The true Ninja could just as easily be your best friend as the assassin that ends your life. Relying more upon stealth and skill that outright force, Ninja fight in the neverending game of life. Almost all Ninja were Rogues and Fighters at some point in their life. Game Rule Information: Prerequisites: Alignment: Any nongood, nonchaotic. BAB: +5 Skills: Hide 8 ranks, Move Silently 8 ranks, Search 8 ranks, Listen 8 ranks, Spot 8 ranks, Open Lock 8 ranks, Disable Device 8 ranks. Feats: Skill Focus (Hide), Skill Focus (Move Silently), Weapon Focus (any), Dodge. Special: Sneak Attack class special ability, Evasion class special ability, Uncanny Dodge class special ability, must be chosen by a member of the Ninja to become a Ninja. Class Features: Hit Die: d8 Armor and Weapon Proficiencies: The Ninja is proficient with light armors; all simple weapons; all light and one handed martial weapons; the Guisarme, Glaive, and Ranseur; and the Kama, Nunchaku, Sai, Siangham, Ninja-To (Short Sword), Ninja Sword (Bastard Sword), Spiked Chain, and Shuriken. (Note: any armor heavier than Leather carries an Armor Check penalty to many of the Ninja's class skills.) Class Skills (and Key Ability): Balance (Dex*), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str*), Decipher Script (Int), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex*), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex*), Jump (Str*), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Cha), Sleight of Hand (Dex*), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str**), Tumble (Dex*), Use Rope (Dex). (*=ACP applies, **=double ACP applies.) Skll Points at Each Level: 6+Intelligence Modifier. Level BAB F/R/W Special 1 +1 +0/+2/+0 Ninja Attack +1d6, Ninja Weapon 2 +2 +1/+3/+1 Improved Unarmed Strike 3 +3 +1/+3/+1 Improved Uncanny Dodge 4 +4 +1/+4/+1 Ninja Attack +1d6, Nightvision 5 +5 +2/+4/+2 Stealthy 6 +6 +2/+5/+2 Hanging by Your Fingertips 7 +7 +2/+5/+2 Ninja Attack +1d6, Skill Focus: Search 8 +8 +3/+6/+3 Improved Evasion 9 +9 +3/+6/+3 Hide in Plain Sight 10 +10 +3/+7/+3 One Strike, One Kill; Sneak Attack +1d6 Ninja Attack +1d6: The Ninja is trained to strike from hiding, doing as much damage as possible in a single hit in order to bring down their target before it can raise the alarm. This class ability operates the exact same way as a Rogues Sneak Attack ability, and increases by the given amount on the chart at the given levels. Ninja Weapon: The Ninja gains the Improved Critical feat for free at first level (even if he does not meet all of the prerequisites) with any weapon listed under the class's description (above), because the Ninja train most extensively with whatever weapon suits their individual style best. Improved Unarmed Strike: The Ninja train extensively in unarmed combat, and can fight even when not in possession of a weapon. They gain the Improved Unarmed Strike feat for free at second level. Improved Uncanny Dodge (EX): At third level, a Ninja's reflexes allow her to react to danger even when she is completely unaware of it. She gains the Improved Uncanny Dodge feat for free at third level. Nightvision (EX): The Ninja spend inordinate amounts of time sneaking around in the dark. This trains their eyes to be more acute under low lighting. The Ninja gains Low Light Vision as an extraordinary ability at fourth level. (Note: this does not stack with the racial trait of the same name.) Stealthy: The Ninja prize the ability to get in and out of an area without being detected above all else. The Ninja gains the Stealthy feat for free at fifth level. Hanging by Your Fingertips (EX): The Ninja spend innumerous hours climbing up and down walls to find new places to hide and spy upon the people that they wish to. The Ninja gains a Climb speed of 15 feet when he ascends to sixth level. In addition to the ability to climb at 15 feet per round, the Ninja now retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) and does not provoke an attack of opportunity when climbing; also, he can choose to take 10 on any Climb check, even if stress or circumstance would normally prevent him from doing so. Improved Evasion (EX): At seventh level, the Ninja's reflexes become legendary. Henceforth, if a spell or effect allows a saving throw for half damage, the Ninja takes no damage on a successful save and half damage on a failed save. Hide in Plain Sight: The Ninja ability to hide where no one else can is legendary. If a Ninja of ninth level or higher is within 10 feet of a shadow (other than her own), she can use the Hide skill, even if there is no cover or she is being observed. This ability is exactly the same as the Shadowdancer ability of the same name. One Strike, One Kill: The Ninja put great store upon moving about without being detected. Unfortunately, they occasionally need to remove a person in their path before they can move on. Once a day, a Ninja gains the ability to make a Death Attack in lieu of a Sneak Attack. She must spend a total of 3 rounds studying the target of the Sneak Attack. Once she has done this, she must make a melee Sneak Attack against the target. The Ninja must use this ability within 3 rounds, and must take no other action (besides using the Hide and Move Silently skills, or moving), or she loses the attempt. Should the Sneak Attack be successful, the target must make a Fortitude Save versus a DC of the Ninja's class level plus the Ninja's Intelligence modifier plus ten. Should the target make the save, they still take Sneak Attack damage as usual. This ability is exactly the same as the Assassin's Death Attack ability. Anybody have any comments?
Steelgryphon 07-29-04, 04:05 PM	I like it. It seems pretty balanced. I was just wondering what class to make my Cohort thx for the great sneaky sneaky class lol {EDIT} Dose Ninja Strike damage stack with Sneak attk Damage? and maybe dump the Improved Unarmed Strike and gove Fast Movement 20'
Hochi-min trail 07-29-04, 04:46 PM	i don't get the: one strike, one kill. i mean, the ability is fine, but the excuse for having the ability is a little lame. if she can only make it with a sneak attack (like the original death attack), then she isn't spotted, therefor she doesn't need to use the ability, right? The Ninja put great store upon not being detected. Unfortunately, occasionally they are seen. When this occurs, it is up to the Ninja to remove the possible obstacle as quickly as possible. Once a day, a Ninja gains the ability to make a Death Attack in lieu of a Sneak Attack. and: She must spend a total of 3 rounds studying the target of the Sneak Attack. Once she has done this, she must make a melee Sneak Attack against the target. The Ninja must use this ability within 3 rounds, and must take no other action (besides using the Hide and Move Silently skills, or moving), or she loses the attempt.
roll8dn 07-29-04, 08:41 PM	Thank you for pointing out the inconsistancy with One Strike, One Kill, Hochi-Min. It is now fixed in the flavor text. Steelgryphon: as far as the sneak attack dice go, yes they do stack; I was looking for a mix of Rogue, Fighter, and Monk abilities. I have always seen the Ninja as a set of highly skilled spies and assassins (hence the nongood, nonchaotic alignment restriction) who struck from hiding only when they had to. They were (at least in my mind) able to hold their own in a fight, but it was not their primary focus. They would be able to fight with a large array of weapons, as well as unarmed (hence the Unarmed Strike). I never saw them as any faster than a normal person (at least in foot speed), Shinobi the game notwithstanding. So, it is just my opinion, so I want to keep the Unarmed Strike (without the added damage from being a Monk, because that is not their primary focus). If it suits you, feel free to add +10 or even +15 feet to the ground speed and remove the Improved Unarmed Strike. Thanks for the ideas, though.
Steelgryphon 07-30-04, 10:29 AM	True but i made a slight modification in my offline version....yes i have enought free time to copy them off... that either give Imp Unarmed Strike Or fastmove+20[' so they could go either way
heretic888 07-30-04, 10:54 AM	I have always seen the Ninja as a set of highly skilled spies and assassins (hence the nongood, nonchaotic alignment restriction) who struck from hiding only when they had to. They were (at least in my mind) able to hold their own in a fight, but it was not their primary focus. They would be able to fight with a large array of weapons, as well as unarmed (hence the Unarmed Strike). I never saw them as any faster than a normal person (at least in foot speed), Shinobi the game notwithstanding. Well, not to interrupt, but as a matter of history: 1) During the Warring States Era (Sengoku Jidai), the time for which the Ninja are most famously known for, they very rarely (if ever) acted as assassins. Historian Stephen Turnbull seems convinced that no record of a single "ninja assassination" exists. Their main purpose during this time was reconaissance (scouts) and commando warfare (guerillas). During the later Edo Period, the espionage angle of the Ninja mystique became a bit more prevalent (but still no wholesale assassinations that I'm aware of). 2) There is nothing about an assassin that necessarily precludes being "nongood". Killing face-to-face or killing via poison really amounts to the same thing. The difference is that one is safer to the excecutor. 3) As their primary purpose was commando warfare (such as night raids, ambushes, hit-and-run scatter tactics, and so forth), the Ninja were quite able to hold their own in a fight. But, they did so in a very unconventional sense (it wouldn't be a simple toe-to-toe battle). They were actually primarily used for unconventional warfare, moreso than anything else. 4) There are special running methods within Ninjutsu, but it wouldn't necessarily be something that all Ninja would have been trained in. By contrast, seeing as how taijutsu is the basis for all ninjutsu skills, I have trouble seeing a Ninja that is absolutely non-proficient in unarmed combat. Mind you, this is all according to history. Carry on. ;)
Steelgryphon 07-30-04, 06:18 PM	The Ninja sword is a Katana a masterwork bastard sword
Epic Scotsman 07-30-04, 06:26 PM	Originally posted by Steelgryphon The Ninja sword is a Katana a masterwork bastard sword NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The so called Ninja sword is in fact a Ninja-to. It's straight, crappy and cheap as hell. In D&D terms, it does 1D6 damage and has a normal sword crit. It's listed as Exotic, but I don't know why. It's also listed as having a 19-29 crit range. Aren't typos cool? Ninja DO NOT use Katana!
Maraxus 07-31-04, 08:42 AM	Damn, I wanted to sai that. :D Samurai = Katana, Do Dachi and the whole cool blades. Ninja = Everything that is easy to hide. What is the name of that combat-fan And being a ninja is about hiding and sneaking and (if they kill somebody) killing is the least honorable way. A ninja is the best example for a chaotic character. You can allow lawful ninjas, too (I would not), but forbitting them to be chaotic is definitly wrong. Hm, comparing it to a rogue... 1more hit-point <-> 2 skill points less some more abilitys <-> only 1/3 sneak attack High BAB <-> ??? You could say, that the 4 required feats are worth a lot. It's strong but all right. I still would remove the big weapons (Bastard sword, spiked chain...) from the list of proficent weapon. They are not forbitten to use those weapons but basicly they learn to use light, small weapons and the big once, they have to learn by themselves.
heretic888 07-31-04, 03:57 PM	The Ninja sword is a Katana a masterwork bastard sword Once again, as a matter of actual history, the "ninja sword" (i.e., the Togakure ryu ninja-to) is a variation on the katana. It is not a regular or "standard" katana (if such a thing actually exists). In either case, I would make neither the katana nor the ninja-to a masterwork weapon. Its silly. The so called Ninja sword is in fact a Ninja-to. It's straight, crappy and cheap as hell. Historically speaking?? Uhhhh.... no, its not. The Togakure ryu was neither straight, nor was it any "crappier" than your run-of-the-mill katana. Both would have been relatively inexpensive, however. Ninja DO NOT use Katana! Sorry, but no. Historically, the only "clan" to use the ninja-to was the Togakure ryu and possibly some of its allies. The rest would have used regular katana. As a matter of RPGs, the Ninja core class in Rokugan is proficient with the katana. So, no in both accounts. Samurai = Katana, Do Dachi and the whole cool blades. Ninja = Everything that is easy to hide. What is the name of that combat-fan Dilineation between "Ninja" and "Samurai" = stupid. And, the tessen (the war-fan) was not unique to ninjutsu ryuha. And being a ninja is about hiding and sneaking and (if they kill somebody) killing is the least honorable way. Actually, that's not what being a "ninja" is about whatsoever. A ninja is the best example for a chaotic character. You can allow lawful ninjas, too (I would not), but forbitting them to be chaotic is definitly wrong. Not at all. Ninjutsu, as well as any martial art, requires great disicpline, dedication, and training. That is the anithesis of "chaotic". Besides, family/clan loyalty kind of precludes chaotic, anyway. Laterz.
Tek 07-31-04, 03:58 PM	Originally posted by heretic888 Historian Stephen Turnbull seems convinced that no record of a single "ninja assassination" exists. Of course not, all the Ninja's are to damn cool to let their work go on paper...
heretic888 07-31-04, 04:18 PM	Of course not, all the Ninja's are to damn cool to let their work go on paper... *sighs* Ok, just think about this logically... How exactly do you keep an assassination of an official or lord of a region out of the records?? I mean, sure, its possible --- but pretty bloody unlikely. Especially, since the guy most likely has rivals that would take great pleasure in documenting his untimely demise. Murders make it into the records. Unless the vast majority were via poison (and, even then, we have nothing but speculation to base this on), then its not likely many "ninja assassinations" actually took place. The point is that there is very, very, very little historical evidence to support the notion of a "ninja assassin" image. This is only if you are concerned with history, mind you. If not, then feel free to carry on. Laterz.
Epic Scotsman 07-31-04, 04:54 PM	All right, I admit the Ninja could use whatever the hell weapon they wanted. In fact, they do. However, the so called "Ninja Sword" in the class says (Bastard Sword) next to it. The "Ninja Sword" is a Ninja-to and no, they weren't crappy as hell per say. They were just of a slightly lesser quality than a Katana as they didn't have the funding of the entire government at their disposal when making weapons. For this Ninja, proficiency with the Katana is fine but Ninja-to should also be in there as it is the actual "Ninja sword". As for the Ninja-to, they are mostly straight. Of course, most Japanese swords are slightly curved at some point and there is always variation.
Steelgryphon 07-31-04, 05:01 PM	roll8dn may i steal your inspiration and try to make a balanced starter class?
heretic888 08-02-04, 11:56 AM	However, the so called "Ninja Sword" in the class says (Bastard Sword) next to it. The "Ninja Sword" is a Ninja-to and no, they weren't crappy as hell per say. They were just of a slightly lesser quality than a Katana as they didn't have the funding of the entire government at their disposal when making weapons. Wrong again. Your average ninja-to would have been of no lesser quality than your average katana --- its just a different design, there is no major structural differenc between the two. And, no, katana were not made "at the funding of the entire government". Katana were very common during the Sengoku Jidai period, and most peasants could probably purchase one at the cost of about a week's worth of labor. Sure, some katana were masterworks of genius. But most were not. They were just swords. As for the Ninja-to, they are mostly straight. Of course, most Japanese swords are slightly curved at some point and there is always variation. No, the historical ninja-to was not straight (this is a Hollywood-inspired myth). It was identical to a regular katana, with the blade being slightly shorter (while the hilt, scabbard, and handle were all the same size and style as a standard katana). The only straight-ish "ninja" style sword I am familiar with is the shikomi-zue. And, by no means is it unique to the ninja. Laterz.
roll8dn 08-02-04, 01:33 PM	Sorry, been away for a while. Seems that you all have a pretty good debate going on here about what weapons would be applicable to a Ninja. Honestly, the only reason that I picked the weapon selection that I did was the fact that they all had an "oriental" flavor to them. Admittedly, while I know a little bit more about weapons of all sorts than the average citizen, I am by no means an expert. At least 50% of what I have picked up, I have done from unreliable sources (fiction, TV, movies, etc.). So, feel free to alter the weapon list as you see fit... Maraxus: Perhaps you are right about this being a bit overpowered. I'm thinking about dropping the skill points to 4 a level. I don't know if that would pull it closer to playability in most campaigns or not, but I usually play fairly high-powered ones. This is designed for those. Let me know what all of you think about that idea. heretic888: Thank you for the historical background on the Ninja as a subculture. I always like any sort of new info on esoteric (or at least, not well known) topic. I was just sorta putting forth what my personal view of them had always been (read: "The image I got from popular media,"). Steelgryphon: Have fun, just PM it to me when you get done; I may want to use it myself! :D
Steelgryphon 08-02-04, 05:24 PM	roll8dn i PMed you the link is also in my sig
heretic888 08-03-04, 08:57 AM	heretic888: Thank you for the historical background on the Ninja as a subculture. I always like any sort of new info on esoteric (or at least, not well known) topic. I was just sorta putting forth what my personal view of them had always been (read: "The image I got from popular media,"). You're welcome, and no worries. :D
Epic Scotsman 08-03-04, 11:43 AM	So while I guess I'm not up with my Japanese history (shame on me)... Do you agree that the Katana is not the typical "Ninja-Sword"? As far as I know it isn't, though Ninja of course used them. I would think a Ninja would stick witht he Ninja-to or something similar, since it's shorter and easier to conceal. Perhaps I missed something in another post, but that's all I ask. Either way, Ninja should supposedly be adept at nearly all weapons so I have no problem with putting a Katana in the weapon proficiencies. And yes, a sword is a sword is a sword, you're right on that one. I don't know what I was thinking. Lastly, I have one simple request. If you would put the Ninja-to in the proficiencies, that would shut me up once and for all. Ninja may not have used them exclusively, but they did use them regurlarly.
roll8dn 08-03-04, 04:28 PM	Ninja-To is now added to the list of Ninja weapons (which already had a weapon with the same stats; short sword, 1d6, 19-20/x2) specifically. If anyone has anything else that they would like to see in this class, I'd gladly hear them out.
Epic Scotsman 08-03-04, 09:06 PM	Thank you :D Actually though, the Ninja-to has an interesting extra. You can use the scabbard as though it were a club, dealing 1D6 damage. So in essence, for one easy payment, you get 2 weapons. But wait, there's no more.
heretic888 08-04-04, 09:51 AM	Do you agree that the Katana is not the typical "Ninja-Sword"? As far as I know it isn't, though Ninja of course used them. I would think a Ninja would stick witht he Ninja-to or something similar, since it's shorter and easier to conceal. Perhaps I missed something in another post, but that's all I ask. No, I don't. The famed "ninja-to" is, as far as I know, unique to Togakure ryu Ninjutsu. It is in no way some kind of standard or universal ninja sword. The few sword kata from Koto ryu Ninpo Koppojutsu, for example, are done with a katana. Either way, Ninja should supposedly be adept at nearly all weapons so I have no problem with putting a Katana in the weapon proficiencies. I personally like the weapon proficiencies list I chose for my Shinobi no Mono base class: blowgun, chain, club, dagger, kama, katana, kawanga, kusari-gama, nekode, ninja-to, quarterstaff, shikomi-zue, shortbow, shortspear, and shuriken. I think it is a good summarization of the weapons the historical ninja would have likely used. Laterz.
Grausherra The Dynast 08-21-04, 08:11 PM	I see one problem with this class. If this class is suppossed to be a realistic ninja, rather than the popular image of the ninja, then the ninja needs to have disguise abilities. Ninjas usually disguised themselves rather than just sneaking around. At the very least, diguise should be a class skill.
roll8dn 08-23-04, 03:04 PM	Originally posted by Grausherra The Dynast I see one problem with this class. If this class is suppossed to be a realistic ninja, rather than the popular image of the ninja, then the ninja needs to have disguise abilities. Ninjas usually disguised themselves rather than just sneaking around. At the very least, diguise should be a class skill. Um, disguise is a class skill already. Could be just me, but I seem to see it there, right after disable divice and before escape artist. Thanks for the suggestion, though.