Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Devil Gnasher 05-24-07, 01:51 AM	I've reworked some class features and included a full explantion of my Detect Evil rules. If you think that any of these class abilities are over powered please say so. After noting the Poke-mount jokes, early ability to cast spells, front loaded nature, mocking of this noble warriors with the title "Lawful Stupid" and restrictions against non-Lawfuls and multiclassing. To correct this and restore paladins to their proper glory (except Miko, she never was a paladin by my standards). As such, I give you the consecrated knight. Please note that some of the flavor text comes from the paladin flavor text of 1st and 2nd edition. Just tell me what you think, please. Also, if you are wondering about the part on races it comes from a campaign setting I'm working on. Consecrated Knight Lawfulness and good deeds are the meat and drink of a paladin. By the same token a knight benefactor would find solace and strength in benevolence and mercy bereft of social or political notions or viewpoints, while a marshal of liberty would see goodness and freedom as the foundation of all life. These are the beliefs of the consecrated knights. Throughout legend and history there are many heroes who could be called paladins: Roland and the 12 Peers of Charlemagne, Saladin, General Charles Gordon, Sir Gawain and Sir Galahad are all examples of the paladin branch of this class. There are also historical and fictional inspirations for marshals of liberty as well. These range from the Marquis de Lafayette, General von Steuben and even such pop culture characters as Shrek and Mike Mingola's Hellboy. Those of the knight benefactor persuasion are much more difficult to find. However Will Turner from the Pirates of the Caribbean could be thought of as an example of a more swashbuckling knight benefactor with some effort. Adventures: The main reasons for a consecrated knight to venture abroad are to defend the innocent, combat those who threaten one's religion, to spread righteousness and mercy through out the land and alleviate the suffering of others. This can include literally holding back the forces of Hell, the Gray Wastes or the Abyss. In some cases all three. Characteristics: Compassion, moral restraint, love of life, courage and a willingness to give your life to protect another are traits that all consecrated knights must share. Having a stick up your posterior is not one of those traits. Mostly only those who barely deserve the title of consecrated knight feature this trait. Unfortunately this is for the most part due to the relatively small number of paladins who started out as monks first. Alignment: Any Good. Lawful Goods are paladins, Neutral Goods are knight benefactors and Chaotic Goods are marshals of liberty. Religion: Whether a paladin, knight benefactor or marshal of liberty a consecrated knight is deeply religious. This does not mean, however that a consecrated knight is some sort of religious fanatic. In fact the self-righteousness and the willingness to do absolutely any thing in the name of one's god would prohibit you from being a consecrated knight. Background: Consecrated knights tend to come from either very religious families or proud military ones. It's also not uncommon for individuals who once considered the life of clergy member before leaving the seminary for a secular military life to follow this path. Races: The paladin branch of this class is found mostly among the humans of Royaume Vert and the dwarves of Felsen Haupt. At the same time the more religious officers of the gnomish militias of the Weiße Gebirgsrepublik tend to become knight benefactors. Because of their devotion to such ideals as freedom and liberty both the elves and ogres of Tir Saoirse produce the greatest number of marshals of liberty. Among other races consecrated knights are so rare that they are virtually non-existent. Other Classes: Consecrated knights tend to get along well with most other classes except those that prevent Good-aligned characters from joining their ranks as well as with non-celestial binders and sorcerers. The reason why consecrated knights mistrust sorcerers and binders is that their power requires binding and controlling others to gain arcane power. This is because of the fact the binding and sorcery often times requires either infernal pacts or force. On the other hand they tend to get along rather well with wizards whom consecrated knights view as capable arcane scientists and researchers. Abilities: Consecrated knight are leaders and commanders with holy powers to discharge such duties. Because of this consecrated knights must intelligent, wise, charismatic and able to withstand rigors of combat, military life and the wild. This means that a consecrated knight's chief abilities are Charisma, Wisdom, Intelligence and Constitution. In addition the standard armored knight reflected in this version of class would find Strength of much greater importance than Dexterity. A more nimble and swashbuckling consecrated knight would favor Dexterity instead. Hit Dice: d10. Skill Points per level: 4+int modifier. Skills: Climb, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Heal, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty, Religion, History, Geography, Architecture and Engineering, Tactics (optional)), Perform, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Swim. Weapon Proficiencies: All simple and martial weapons. Armor Proficiencies: All armor and shields. Alignment: Lawful Good for paladins, Neutral Good for knight benefactors and Chaotic Good for marshals of liberty. Base Attack Fort Ref Will Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st +1 +2 +0 +0 Aura of good, detect evil, smite evil 1/day 2nd +2 +3 +0 +0 Divine Grace, Lay on Hands 3rd +3 +3 +1 +1 Aura of Courage, Divine Health 4th +4 +4 +1 +1 Turn Undead, Defense for the Repentant 5th +5 +4 +1 +1 Smite Evil 2/day 6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +2 Remove disease 1/week, leadership or skill focus: diplomacy 7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +2 Divine balm 8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +2 9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +3 Remove disease 2/week 10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +3 Smite evil 3/day 11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +3 Woe unto the wicked 12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +4 Remove disease 2/week 13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +4 14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +4 15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +5 Remove disease 4/week, smite evil 4/day 16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +5 17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5 18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +6 Remove disease 5/week 19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +6 20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +6 Smite evil 5/day, So that Others May Live Spells The Consecrated Knight: Spells per Day Level 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 1st - - - - - 2nd - - - - - 3rd - - - - - 4th - - - - - 5th - - - - - 6th - - - - - 7th - - - - - 8th - - - - - 9th 4 1 - - - 10th 4 2 - - - 11th 4 2 1 - - 12th 4 2 2 - - 13th 4 2 2 1 - 14th 4 3 2 2 - 15th 4 3 3 2 1 16th 4 3 3 2 2 17th 4 4 3 2 2 18th 4 4 4 3 3 19th 4 4 4 4 3 20th 4 4 4 4 4 Class Features All of the following are class features of the consecrated knight. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Consecrated knights are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor (heavy, medium, and light), and with shields. The medium and heavy armor proficiency may be exchanged for the choice of one fighter bonus feat. Aura of Good (Ex): The power of a consecrated knight’s aura of good (see the detect good spell) is equal to her consecrated knight level. Detect Evil (Sp): At will, a consecrated knight can use detect evil, as the spell, except for some differences. However, this is a full round action and involves some sort of ritual decided upon by the consecrated knight. Unlike the spell the consecrated knight can discern the extent of their suspect's evil from -1 (neutral with evil tendencies) to -5 (pure evil, whether Neutral Evil or not) and whether or not they have recently committed an evil act and its magnitude. The Consecrated Knight: Detect Evil Degree Source Sensation -1 Neutral with Evil tendencies Bullies, some pick pockets, Itching finger tips. Bernard Black and common con men. -2 Evil with Neutral tendencies Muggers and loan sharks. Tiny pinpricks though out fingers. -3 Evil Brigands, thugs, murderers, Sharp and short-lived pain in the arms. most non-comsic fiends, most Dukes of Hell, Edmund Blackadder and Belkar. -4 Vile War criminals, Jonathan Short but sharp Teatime and most archfiends. throbbing pain in all extremities. -5 Pure Evil The most demented war Brief but agonizing full body pain. mongering genocidal tyrants, Carcer, Findthee Swing, the Auditors of Reality and all remaining archfiends. Smite Evil (Su): Once per day, a consecrated knight may attempt to smite evil with one normal melee attack. She adds her Charisma bonus (if any) to her attack roll and deals 1 extra point of damage per consecrated knight level. If the consecrated knight accidentally smites a creature that is not evil, the smite has no effect, but the ability is still used up for that day. At 5th level, and at every five levels thereafter, the consecrated knight may smite evil one additional time per day, as indicated on Table: The Consecrated Knight, to a maximum of five times per day at 20th level. If the target was Neutral with Evil tendencies and threatened another sentient creature the smite bonus is inflicted as non-lethal damage. If made a successful smite use against a target of Vile or worse status the additional damage is equal to the consecrated knight's class level times 1.5. Divine Grace (Su): At 2nd level, a consecrated knight gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws. Lay on Hands (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, a consecrated knight with a Charisma score of 12 or higher can heal wounds (her own or those of others) by touch. Each day she can heal a total number of hit points of damage equal to her consecrated knight level x her Charisma bonus. A consecrated knight may choose to divide her healing among multiple recipients, and she doesn’t have to use it all at once. Using lay on hands is a standard action. Alternatively, a consecrated knight can use any or all of this healing power to deal damage to undead creatures. Using lay on hands in this way requires a successful melee touch attack and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. The consecrated knight decides how many of her daily allotment of points to use as damage after successfully touching an undead creature. Aura of Courage (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, a consecrated knight is immune to fear (magical or otherwise). Each ally within 10 feet of her gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear effects. This ability functions while the consecrated knight is conscious, but not if she is unconscious or dead. Divine Health (Ex): At 3rd level, a consecrated knight gains immunity to all diseases, including supernatural and magical diseases. Turn Undead (Su): When a consecrated knight reaches 4th level, she gains the supernatural ability to turn undead. She may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier. She turns undead as a cleric of three levels lower would. Defense for the Repentant (Su): After reaching 4th level any evil doer who willingly surrenders to you, and truly repents of his or her evil acts is now subject to your divine grace as if he or she was a consecrated knight. You also automatically know when your ward is in danger. However, by the same token you are responsible for your ward's safety. This means that if you allow harm to befall this person you lose all consecrated knight powers untill you atone and attempt to repair the damage caused. The protective bond is broken if your ward commits any evil acts under your care or has been moved to safety. Holy Mount (Sp): Upon reaching 5th level, a consecrated knight may quest for a highly intelligent animal to serve as a mount. Typically this is a warhorse but other animals are allowed. While the word “quest” is used, a consecrated knight may simply meet his bonded mount on the way to greater quest or any other memorable event. Any such mount must have hit dice or Challenge Rating (DM's choice) equal to or less than that of the consecrated knight. Appropriate mounts would include awakened animals such as horses, wolves, bears or rhinoceros. This is in addition to such creatures as pegasi, unicorns (with the proper feats), griffons, some dragons (see unicorns) and flumphs. Should the consecrated knight’s mount die, the consecrated knight must wait for one whole year to obtain a new mount. If the consecrated knight’s mount was killed due to incompetence, neglect or cowardice on the part of the consecrated knight, he must wait for ten years instead. If said mount dies because of abuse or deliberate neglect on the consecrated knight’s part, she can not receive a new mount, ever. In fact this may even cause irrevocable loss of consecrated knight status. Leadership: Consecrated knights are more than warriors with minor divine gifts are, they are leaders and commanders. For this reason, consecrated knight automatically gain Leadership as a bonus feat at 6th level unless they already possess it. If they do they may take a social skill related feat or a fighter bonus feat. Remove Disease (Sp): At 6th level, a consecrated knight can produce a remove disease effect, as the spell, once per week. She can use this ability one additional time per week for every three levels after 6th (twice per week at 9th, three times at 12th, and so forth). Divine Balm (Su): Starting at 7th level, a consecrated knight is endowed with the ability to purge disease and affliction on a somewhat more frequent basis. In game terms this means that a consecrated knight can remove disease an extra number of times per week equal to his or her Charisma bonus. Spells: Beginning at 9th level, a consecrated knight gains the ability to cast a small number of divine spells, which are drawn from the cleric list with additional consecrated knight only spells. A consecrated knight need not choose and prepare her spells in advance. To prepare or cast a spell, a consecrated knight must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a consecrated knight’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the consecrated knight’s Wisdom modifier. Like other spellcasters, a consecrated knight can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Consecrated Knight. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Wisdom score. The consecrated knight does not have access to any domain spells or granted powers, as a cleric does. Through 8th level, a consecrated knight has no caster level. At 9th level and higher, her caster level is equal to her consecrated knight level minus eight. Woe Unto the Wicked (Su): At 11th level the consecrated knight or knight errant, as now called, strikes terror into the hearts of the cruelest and most depraved of transgressers. This means that of the consecrated knight succeds on any attack roll involving his or her smite Evil power, the transgresser Must pass a Will Save with a DC of 10+consecrated knight levelXmultipliers below+Cha modifier. If the target fails on his saving throw he or she is shaken. If the saving throw is failed by 10 or more the target frightened. While if the saving throw is failed by 25 or more the target is panicked. If the target has failed his or her saving throw by 40 or more they are instead cowering. Either state lasts a number rounds equal the consecrated knight's Charisma modifier+2. Severity Multiplier Crimes or attempted crimes Minor x0.5 Mild bullying and verbal abuse. Lesser x1 Bullying, physical abuse and unprovoked theft. By unprovoked theft I mean theft from the innocent. By innocent I mean those have not caused physical harm or known financial harm unless in self defense or in defending others. Moderate x1.5 Assault, battery or robbery. Harsh x2 Battery with a deadly weapon or robbery. Severe x2.5 Murder, torture, rape or mutilation. So That Others May Live (Su): In the ultimate act of willing self-sacrifice a consecrated knight may impose him or herself in between an enemy force and its intended victims. This requires four rounds in which the consecrated knight may take no offensive action, or move more than 10 feet. This ability also renders the user vulnerable to Attacks of Opportunity and flatfooted for those four rounds. While this power is in affect no enemy can pass the consecrated knight or harm any of the user’s protectees. In addition all missile attacks are resolved against the consecrated knight using this ability. So That Others May Live lasts as long as the threat persists, regardless of the consecrated knight's status. The supernatual barrier is 50 feet long and directly infront of the consecrated knight's beneficiaries. Code of Conduct: A consecrated knight must be of good alignment and loses all class abilities if she ever willingly commits an evil act. Additionally, a consecrated knight’s code requires that she act with honor (not lying and not cheating unless the life or dignity of an innocent is at stake, not using poison, and so forth), to help those in need, and punish those who harm or threaten innocents. Also a consecrated knight may flee from battle only if her charges are safely retreating themselves. She may drink alcoholic beverages and gamble if such activities are permitted by her religion, provided that she doesn’t drink or gamble to excess. A consecrated knight must also actively perform good deeds whenever the need arises. In other words fighting evil alone is not enough to be a consecrated knight. Acts of mercy and compassion are the hallmarks of a consecrated knight and she must always be ready to perform such actions. This does not mean that you have to show any pity for some one who has committed truly evil or even vile acts and does not repent. Some one like that would deserve hanging or some other capital or very harsh punishment. Just because you happen to be a warrior for cosmic or divine good doesn't mean you're a nice guy. Associates: While she may adventure with characters of any good or neutral alignment, a consecrated knight will never knowingly associate with evil characters, nor will she continue an association with someone who consistently offends her moral code. A consecrated knight may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are the same alignment. Note: straitjacketing an evilly aligned character or otherwise preventing him from causing harm out side of battle is not an association. You're not his friend, pal, buddy or partner. You're his warden. Act like it. Ex-Consecrated knights A consecrated knight who ceases to be good, who willfully commits an evil act, or who grossly violates the code of conduct loses all consecrated knight spells and abilities (including the service of the paladin’s mount, but not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies or marshal abilities and leadership). She may not progress any farther in levels as a consecrated knight. She regains her abilities and advancement potential if she atones for her violations (see the atonement spell description), as appropriate. Like a member of any other class, a consecrated knight may be a multiclass character.
Devil Gnasher 05-24-07, 04:27 PM	Would any one help me reorganize this class' tables? I'd appreciate the help.
Devil Gnasher 05-24-07, 07:06 PM	Aleady fixed the class tables. No help needed.
Vaalingrade Ashland 05-24-07, 07:47 PM	This is a massive leap above the Core Paladin if only because of the improved Detect Evil and CoC.
Devil Gnasher 05-24-07, 08:17 PM	This is a massive leap above the Core Paladin if only because of the improved Detect Evil and CoC. What do you mean exactly Ashland?
Vaalingrade Ashland 05-24-07, 10:02 PM	The Detect Evil mechanics you've given them is actually useful in sifting wrong doers from bastards and your CoC takes a lot of the wiggle room away from psychotic Paladin boosters. Good Job!
Devil Gnasher 05-25-07, 02:10 AM	The Detect Evil mechanics you've given them is actually useful in sifting wrong doers from bastards and your CoC takes a lot of the wiggle room away from psychotic Paladin boosters. Good Job! In First edition you had Detect Evil but not Smite Evil (not that I don't like Smite Evil but that's another topic). It was basically for the purpose finding out who you can or can not trust, and to keep a close watch on potential wrong doers and prevent them from causing harm. In Second edition this was mostly the same, only that there were degrees of Evil to detect. There was even a list of sensations to go along with each degree of Evil. Go to this link (http://www.fangclan.org/adnd/tsr2147---Complete-Paladin-Handbook.pdf) then go to page 11.
Devil Gnasher 05-25-07, 11:59 AM	So, what does every one else think?
Devil Gnasher 05-25-07, 08:19 PM	I added a Detect Evil Degree table if any one is interested.
OneWinged4ngel 05-25-07, 09:48 PM	So, what does every one else think? Well let's see, point by point... After noting the Poke-mount jokes, early ability to cast spells, front loaded nature, mocking of this noble warriors with the title "Lawful Stupid" and restrictions against non-Lawfuls and multiclassing. To correct this and restore paladins to their proper glory (except Miko, she never was a paladin by my standards). As such, I give you the consecrated knight. Please note that some of the flavor text comes from the paladin flavor text of 1st and 2nd edition. Just tell me what you think, please. Also, if you are wondering about the part on races it comes from a campaign setting I'm working on. Consectated Knight Lawfulness and good deeds are the meat and drink of a paladin. By the same token a knight benefactor would be sustained by benevolence and mercy bereft of social or political notions or viewpoints, while a marshal of liberty would see goodness and freedom as her staple. These are the beliefs of the consecrated knights. Throughout legend and history there are many heroes who could be called paladins: Roland and the 12 Peers of Charlemagne, Saladin, General Charles Gordon, Sir Gawain and Sir Galahad are all examples of the paladin branch of this class. There are also historical and fictional inspirations for marshals of liberty as well. These range from the Marquis de Lafayette, General von Steuben and even such pop culture characters as Shrek and Mike Mingola's Hellboy. Those of the knight benefactor persuasion are much more difficult to find however. Adventures: The main reasons for a consecrated knight to venture abroad are to defend the innocent, combat those who threaten one's religion, to spread righteousness and mercy through out the land and alleviate the suffering of others. This can include literally holding back the forces of Hell, the Gray Wastes or the Abyss. In some cases all three. Characteristics: Compassion, moral restraint, love of life, courage and a willingness to give your life to protect another are traits that all consecrated knights must share. Having a stick up your posterior is not one of those traits. Mostly only those who barely deserve the title of consecrated knight feature this trait. Unfortunately this is for the most part due to the relatively small number of paladins who started out as monks first. Alignment: Any Good. Lawful Goods are paladins, Neutral Goods are knight benefactors and Chaotic Goods are marshals of liberty. Religion: Whether a paladin, knight benefactor or marshal of liberty a consecrated knight is deeply religious. This does not mean, however that a consecrated knight is some sort of religious fanatic. In fact the self-righteousness and the willingness to do absolutely any thing in the name of one's god would prohibit you from being a consecrated knight. Background: Consecrated knights tend to come from either very religious families or proud military ones. It's also not uncommon for individuals who once considered the life of clergy member before leaving the seminary for a secular military life. Races: The paladin branch of this class is found mostly among the humans of Royaume Vert and the dwarves of Felsen Haupt. At the same time the more religious officers of the gnomish militias of the Weiße Gebirgsrepublik tend to become knight benefactors. Because of their devotion to such ideals as freedom and liberty both the elves and ogres of Tir Saoirse produce the greatest number of marshals of liberty. Among other races consecrated knights are so rare that they are virtually non-existent. Other Classes: Consecrated knights tend to get along well with most other classes except those that prevent Good-aligned characters from joining their ranks as well as with non-celestial binders and sorcerers. The reason why consecrated knights mistrust sorcerers and binders is that their power requires binding and controlling others to gain arcane power. This is because of the fact the binding and sorcery often times requires either infernal pacts or force. On the other hand they tend to get along rather well with wizards whom consecrated knights view as capable arcane scientists and researchers. Abilities: Consecrated knight are leaders and commanders with holy powers to discharge such duties. Because of this consecrated knights must intelligent, wise, charismatic and able to withstand rigors of combat, military life and the wild. This means that a consecrated knight's chief abilities are Charisma, Wisdom, Intelligence and Constitution. In addition the standard armored knight reflected in this version of class would find Strength of much greater importance than Dexterity. A more nimble and swashbuckling consecrated knight would favor Dexterity instead. All filler... doesn't actually show anything at all different from the original, and half of it looks like it's taken straight from a post on Giants in the Playground. So, onto the meat... Hit Dice: d10. Skill Points per level: 4+int modifier. Cool, four skill points. 2+int skill points is criminal for the melee classes, if you ask me. Skills: Climb, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Heal, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty, Religion, History, Geography, Architecture and Engineering, Tactics (optional)), Perform, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Swim. Not sure what Knowledge: Tactics is from, but whatever. Doesn't look like anything special's been added. Weapon Proficiencies: All simple and martial weapons. Armor Proficiencies: All armor and shields. So you gave them more proficiencies than before, huh? What made you decide to do that? Regardless, it's not like most people care about Tower Shields anyways, so there you go. Alignment: Lawful Good for paladins, Neutral Good for knight benefactors and Chaotic Good for marshals of liberty. Base Attack Fort Ref Will Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st +1 +2 +0 +0 Aura of good, detect evil, smite evil 1/day, minor auras 2nd +2 +3 +0 +0 Divine Grace, Lay on Hands 3rd +3 +3 +1 +1 Aura of Courage, Divine Health 4th +4 +4 +1 +1 Turn Undead 5th +5 +4 +1 +1 Smite Evil 2/day 6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +2 Remove disease 1/week, leadership 7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +2 8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +2 9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +3 Remove disease 2/week 10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +3 Smite evil 3/day 11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +3 12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +4 Remove disease 2/week 13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +4 14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +4 15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +5 Remove disease 4/week, smite evil 4/day 16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +5 17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5 18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +6 Remove disease 5/week 19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +6 20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +6 Smite evil 5/day Spells and Auras The Consecrated Knight: Spells per Day and Auras Level 1st 2nd 3rd 4th Minor Auras Known 1st - - - - 1 2nd - - - - 1 3rd - - - - 2 4th - - - - 2 5th - - - - 3 6th - - - - 3 7th - - - - 4 8th - - - - 4 9th 1 - - - 5 10th 2 - - - 5 11th 2 1 - - 5 12th 2 2 - - 6 13th 2 2 1 - 6 14th 3 2 2 - 6 15th 3 3 2 1 7 16th 3 3 2 2 7 17th 4 3 2 2 7 18th 4 4 3 3 8 19th 4 4 4 3 8 20th 4 4 4 4 8 So far I'm seeing the paladin with the marshal auras tacked on. So now we've got MORE of a front-loaded dip than before. Now we've got the Cha benefits of the paladin combined with one of the main reasons for marhsal dipping: Motivate Charisma. So basically it looks like you just made the paladin even more frontloaded and dippable. But let's look at what else you added. Class Features All of the following are class features of the consecrated knight. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Consecrated knights are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor (heavy, medium, and light), and with shields. Not sure why this is repeated... Aura of Good (Ex): The power of a consecrated knight’s aura of good (see the detect good spell) is equal to her consecrated knight level. Same as Paladin. Detect Evil (Sp): At will, a consecrated knight can use detect evil, as the spell, except for some differences. However, this is a full round action and involves some sort of ritual decided upon by the consecrated knight. Unlike the spell the consecrated knight can discern the extent of their suspect's evil from -1 (neutral with evil tendencies) to -5 (pure evil, whether Neutral Evil or not) and whether or not they have recently committed an evil act and its nature. The Consecrated Knight: Detect Evil Degree Source Sensation -1 Bullies, some pick pockets, Bernard Itching finger tips. Neutral Black and common con men. with Evil tendencies -2 Muggers and loan sharks. Tiny pinpricks though out Evil with fingers. Neutral tendencies -3 Brigands, thugs, murderers, most non- An acute burning sensation Evil cosmic fiends, most Dukes of Hell through out the arms. Edmund Blackadder and Belkar. -4 Serial killers, war criminals, sociopaths, Sharp throbbing Vile SS Death’s Head and most archfiends. pain in all extremities. -5 The most demented war mongering Agonizing full body pain. Pure Evil genocidal tyrants, the most blood thirsty and depraved criminals and all remaining archfiends. So you introduce a whole new detect evil system for the paladin that's completely seperate from the way alignment works in D&D for some reason. :rolleyes: You also wrote in specific flavor, instead of leaving the way Detect Evil feels to the DM. Clearly this isn't a paladin written for everyone's game, just your game. Also, the paladin now has a powerful at-will divination starting at level 1 that can disrupt a game world. Ever have a suspected criminal? The local paladin can immediately tell the exact nature of his crime for easy, roleplay/intrigue free resolution! I give this bit a big thumbs down. Minor Auras (Ex): The consecrated knight exerts an effect on allies in her vicinity. She can learn to produce different effects, or auras, over the course of her career. The consecrated knight may project one minor aura at a time. She gains auras as a marshal equal to her consecrated knight levels. The rules on marshal auras can be found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030906b). Again, just tacked on Marshal auras to the paladin to make her even more dippable. Whoopee. Smite Evil (Su): Once per day, a consecrated knight may attempt to smite evil with one normal melee attack. She adds her Charisma bonus (if any) to her attack roll and deals 1 extra point of damage per consecrated knight level. If the blessed horseman accidentally smites a creature that is not evil, the smite has no effect, but the ability is still used up for that day. At 5th level, and at every five levels thereafter, the consecrated knight may smite evil one additional time per day, as indicated on Table: The Consecrated Knight, to a maximum of five times per day at 20th level. Divine Grace (Su): At 2nd level, a consecrated knight gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws. Lay on Hands (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, a consecrated knight with a Charisma score of 12 or higher can heal wounds (her own or those of others) by touch. Each day she can heal a total number of hit points of damage equal to her consecrated knight level x her Charisma bonus. A consecrated knight may choose to divide her healing among multiple recipients, and she doesn’t have to use it all at once. Using lay on hands is a standard action. Alternatively, a consecrated knight can use any or all of this healing power to deal damage to undead creatures. Using lay on hands in this way requires a successful melee touch attack and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. The consecrated knight decides how many of her daily allotment of points to use as damage after successfully touching an undead creature. Aura of Courage (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, a consecrated knight is immune to fear (magical or otherwise). Each ally within 10 feet of her gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear effects. This ability functions while the consecrated knight is conscious, but not if she is unconscious or dead. Divine Health (Ex): At 3rd level, a consecrated knight gains immunity to all diseases, including supernatural and magical diseases. Turn Undead (Su): When a consecrated knight reaches 4th level, she gains the supernatural ability to turn undead. She may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier. She turns undead as a cleric of three levels lower would. Okay... same as paladin... no improvements or damages here. Holy Mount (Sp): Upon reaching 5th level, a consecrated knight may quest for a highly intelligent animal to serve as a mount. Typically this is a warhorse but other animals are allowed. While the word “quest” is used, a consecrated knight may simply meet his bonded mount on the way to greater quest or any other memorable event. Any such mount must have hit dice or Challenge Rating (DM's choice) equal to or less than that of the consecrated knight. Appropriate mounts would include awakened animals such as horses, wolves, bears or rhinoceros. This is in addition to such creatures as pegasi, unicorns (with the proper feats), griffons, some dragons (see unicorns) and flumphs. Should the consecrated knight’s mount die, the consecrated knight must wait for one whole year to obtain a new mount. If the consecrated knight’s mount was killed due to incompetence, neglect or cowardice on the part of the consecrated knight, he must wait for ten years instead. If said mount dies because of abuse or deliberate neglect on the consecrated knight’s part, she can not receive a new mount, ever. In fact this may even cause irrevocable loss of consecrated knight status. Why make it a class feature to be "allowed" to quest for it? When you quest for something, it's generally either a requisite for a PrC or basically... well, LOOT. Anyone can quest for a holy mount, you're just writing in a *necessary story that the DM must suddenly follow in order to give the paladin an ability* at a given metagame moment (level) as a class feature. I'm calling "Elothar Warrior of Bladereach" shenanigans here. Leadership: Consecrated knights are more than warriors with minor divine gifts are, they are leaders and commanders. For this reason, consecrated knight automatically gain Leadership as a bonus feat at 6th level unless they already possess it. If they do they may take a social skill related feat or a fighter bonus feat. Considering that this very feat is the most commonly and explicitly denoted element that requires a player to talk over with the DM to allow, because it's not right for all games, well... it just seems like a bad design choice to put it in here as a class feature. Also, again, you suddenly are forcing a storyline element on the player. "When a paladin gets to level 6, they must suddenly attain some sort of station where they gain a bunch of followers." I call Elothar shenanigans again. Remove Disease (Sp): At 6th level, a consecrated knight can produce a remove disease effect, as the spell, once per week. She can use this ability one additional time per week for every three levels after 6th (twice per week at 9th, three times at 12th, and so forth). Spells: Beginning at 9th level, a consecrated knight gains the ability to cast a small number of divine spells, which are drawn from the paladin spell list. A consecrated knight need not choose and prepare her spells in advance. To prepare or cast a spell, a consecrated knight must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a consecrated knight’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the consecrated knight’s Wisdom modifier. Like other spellcasters, a consecrated knight can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Consecrated Knight. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Wisdom score. The consecrated knight does not have access to any domain spells or granted powers, as a cleric does. Through 8th level, a consecrated knight has no caster level. At 9th level and higher, her caster level is equal to her consecrated knight level minus eight. Wow. You have -8 caster level... as if paladins didn't have enough trouble with caster level already... and THEN you don't even start getting spells until level 9, and suddenly gain a progression much faster than the normal paladin. WTF? Why would you do a change like this? You made a problem with a class worse. Code of Conduct: A consecrated knight must be of good alignment and loses all class abilities if she ever willingly commits an evil act. Additionally, a consecrated knight’s code requires that she act with honor (not lying and not cheating unless the life or dignity of an innocent is at stake, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need, and punish those who harm or threaten innocents. Also a consecrated knight may flee from battle only if her charges are safely retreating themselves. She may drink alcoholic beverages and gamble if such activities are permitted by her religion, provided that she doesn’t drink or gamble to excess. A consecrated knight must also actively perform good deeds whenever the need arises. In other words fighting evil alone is not enough to be a consecrated knight. Acts of mercy and compassion are the hallmarks of a consecrated knight and she must always be ready to perform such actions. This does not mean that you have to show any pity for some one who has committed truly evil or even vile acts and does not repent. Some one like that would deserve hanging or some other capital or very harsh punishment. Just because you happen to be a warrior for cosmic or divine good doesn't mean you're a nice guy. Associates: While she may adventure with characters of any good or neutral alignment, a consecrated knight will never knowingly associate with evil characters, nor will she continue an association with someone who consistently offends her moral code. A consecrated knight may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are the same alignment. Note: straitjacketing an evilly aligned character or otherwise preventing him from causing harm out side of battle is not an association. You're not his friend, pal, buddy or partner. You're his warden. Act like it. Ex-Consecrated knights A consecrated knight who ceases to be good, who willfully commits an evil act, or who grossly violates the code of conduct loses all consecrated knight spells and abilities (including the service of the paladin’s mount, but not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies or marshal abilities and leadership). She may not progress any farther in levels as a consecrated knight. She regains her abilities and advancement potential if she atones for her violations (see the atonement spell description), as appropriate. Like a member of any other class, a consecrated knight may be a multiclass character. It's even more problematic than the core code! Geez... I don't even want to touch that. Overall? I think you've screwed up spellcasting ("I'm level 10 and I'm getting cure light wounds a couple times a day! HURRAY!"), made the paladin even MORE dippable, you did story-write-in class abilities (:nonono:), and made changes to the CoC that are just bound to cause problems. If you wanted to make the Paladin class worse, both mechanically and in implementation in games and stories, good job! Otherwise... :thumbsdow
Devil Gnasher 05-26-07, 06:41 PM	Well let's see, point by point... All filler... doesn't actually show anything at all different from the original, and half of it looks like it's taken straight from a post on Giants in the Playground. So, onto the meat... You mean this one (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42330), the thread I started? Cool, four skill points. 2+int skill points is criminal for the melee classes, if you ask me. That's why I changed it to four per level. Not sure what Knowledge: Tactics is from, but whatever. Doesn't look like anything special's been added. I've added Knowledge history and engineering to the list as well. Consecrated knights are tacticians as much as they are leaders and warriors. Knowledge: Tactics is optional and can substituted with Knowledge: History and Knowledge: Engineering. For Knowledge: History think of General Patton's strategies, they were based off of military campaigns from Ancient Greece to the Napoleonic Wars. Knowledge Engineering would be for bypassing the defenses of a specific fortification. So you gave them more proficiencies than before, huh? What made you decide to do that? Regardless, it's not like most people care about Tower Shields anyways, so there you go. Simple, a paladin or other consecrated knight is a warrior sworn to defend others. A tower shield is a slow moving but effective way of doing just that. So far I'm seeing the paladin with the marshal auras tacked on. So now we've got MORE of a front-loaded dip than before. Now we've got the Cha benefits of the paladin combined with one of the main reasons for marshal dipping: Motivate Charisma. So basically it looks like you just made the paladin even more frontloaded and dippable. The marshal auras are for one purpose, leading troops, such as PC's into battle. Paladins and other consecrated knights are leaders and field commanders as much as they are gifted solders. But let's look at what else you added. This is going to hurt. Not sure why this is repeated... I'll remove it. Same as Paladin. Yes, I didn't find any thing much to change with that one yet. I may in the future. So you introduce a whole new detect evil system for the paladin that's completely separate from the way alignment works in D&D for some reason. :rolleyes: You mean 3rd edition D&D, right? In 1st and second edition there were three degrees of evil. They were neutrality tending towards evil, evil tending towards neutrality and plain old evil. Vile is from the supplement The Book of Vile Darkness and Pure Evil (http://dicefreaks.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2870&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15) is from Dicefreaks. You also wrote in specific flavor, instead of leaving the way Detect Evil feels to the DM. Clearly this isn't a paladin written for everyone's game, just your game. Those are just suggestions, you don't use those exact sensations in your game. Also, the paladin now has a powerful at-will divination starting at level 1 that can disrupt a game world. Ever have a suspected criminal? The local paladin can immediately tell the exact nature of his crime for easy, role-play/intrigue free resolution! It only reveals the degree of evil, not the form. Just because some one is Neutral with Tendencies towards Evil doesn't make them opportunistic pickpocket, they could just be an abusive jerk with no friends or a common bully. I give this bit a big thumbs down. I hope you understand it better now. Again, just tacked on Marshal auras to the paladin to make her even more dippable. Whoopee. As a consecrated knight your duty as a commander is to lead troops into battle, inspire them and then get them back home alive if at all possible. Hence, the marshal auras. Okay... same as paladin... no improvements or damages here. How about this idea. Those who are Neutral with tendencies towards Evil receive no damage unless they attempted to harm others and then they receive non-lethal bonus damage instead. Those who are Vile or worse 1.5 five times as much damage. Why make it a class feature to be "allowed" to quest for it? When you quest for something, it's generally either a requisite for a PrC or basically... well, LOOT. Anyone can quest for a holy mount, you're just writing in a *necessary story that the DM must suddenly follow in order to give the paladin an ability* at a given metagame moment (level) as a class feature. I'm calling "Elothar Warrior of Bladereach" shenanigans here. The "quest" could also be a seemingly chance encounter or the result of rumors about some strange animal running amuck. You could even be walking through a subterranean network of caves until you hear the sound of a small wounded creature. As find this wounded beast you realize that it is a creature know as a flumph. The flumph seeing that it is about to be saved extends its lone undamaged to your right, trusting that you'll nurse it back to health and keep it safe. That and I like PCs to have a background story as to why they have whatever animals they have. Considering that this very feat is the most commonly and explicitly denoted element that requires a player to talk over with the DM to allow, because it's not right for all games, well... it just seems like a bad design choice to put it in here as a class feature. Also, again, you suddenly are forcing a storyline element on the player. "When a paladin gets to level 6, they must suddenly attain some sort of station where they gain a bunch of followers." I call Elothar shenanigans again. It's up to the DM to decide as well. Wow. You have -8 caster level... as if paladins didn't have enough trouble with caster level already... and THEN you don't even start getting spells until level 9, and suddenly gain a progression much faster than the normal paladin. WTF? Why would you do a change like this? You made a problem with a class worse. Well here's how I see it. Classes with full spellcasting progression (up to 9th level before epic rules, if used) should start casting at first level. Classes with limited spellcasting progression (up to 6th level) should start at third, fourth or fifth level. It's even more problematic than the core code! Geez... I don't even want to touch that. If you don't want to hold your self to a higher standard in return for divine powers, play fighter. Roy from the Order of the Stick would make a much better paladin than Miko in my opinion. He holds himself to a higher standard than some one like Miko would. Lastly, how is this more problematic than the standard code? Is it because it requires you to behave in a Good manner and not merely a non-Evil one? Overall? I think you've screwed up spellcasting ("I'm level 10 and I'm getting cure light wounds a couple times a day! HURRAY!"), made the paladin even MORE dippable, you did story-write-in class abilities (:nonono:), and made changes to the CoC that are just bound to cause problems. If you wanted to make the Paladin class worse, both mechanically and in implementation in games and stories, good job! Otherwise... :thumbsdow That's your opinion and that's fine by me. Let's agree to disagree, okay.
OneWinged4ngel 05-26-07, 07:02 PM	The marshal auras are for one purpose, leading troops, such as PC's into battle. Paladins and other consecrated knights are leaders and field commanders as much as they are gifted solders. Which doesn't actually account for the real *mechanical* effect it has, which is what I was criticizing. All it does is make you more frontloaded, and cut out the need for a 1 level marshal dip ever. You mean 3rd edition D&D, right? In 1st and second edition there were three degrees of evil. They were neutrality tending towards evil, evil tending towards neutrality and plain old evil. Vile is from the supplement The Book of Vile Darkness and Pure Evil (http://dicefreaks.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2870&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15) is from Dicefreaks. This better explains it, and again it's fine if you apply it across the board instead of making it arbitrarily just for the pally, but you've still got the "you know exactly what the guy's done" thing. Those are just suggestions, you don't use those exact sensations in your game. Of course, such is always the case with anything flavorful. It's always optional, unless you use some express plot-write-in abilities (oh wait, you did! But not for Detect Evil) It only reveals the degree of evil, not the form. Just because some one is Neutral with Tendencies towards Evil doesn't make them opportunistic pickpocket, they could just be an abusive jerk with no friends or a common bully. It does reveal the form! It says it reveals the nature of their recent evil acts (of course giving no actual duration or restrictions) I hope you understand it better now. Understand it the same as when I first read it. Most of your responses kinda go without saying. As a consecrated knight your duty as a commander is to lead troops into battle, inspire them and then get them back home alive if at all possible. Hence, the marshal auras. And again, all the marshal auras are really doing is making you more frontloaded. The "quest" could also be a seemingly chance encounter or the result of rumors about some strange animal running amuck. You could even be walking through a subterranean network of caves until you hear the sound of a small wounded creature. As find this wounded beast you realize that it is a creature know as a flumph. The flumph seeing that it is about to be saved extends its lone undamaged to your right, trusting that you'll nurse it back to health and keep it safe. That and I like PCs to have a background story as to why they have whatever animals they have. And you can do the same thing without writing into the rules the NECESSITY of a quest. Plot-write-in class features are almost always a bad thing. It's up to the DM to decide as well. It's another plot-write-in ability, and it's basically making a situation where a lot of DMs are not going to want to implement your class. You're making a class that already gets a lot of flack less versatile, more restricted, and more problematic in implementation. Well here's how I see it. Classes with full spellcasting progression (up to 9th level before epic rules, if used) should start casting at first level. Classes with limited spellcasting progression (up to 6th level) should start at third, fourth or fifth level. And that's all completely arbitrary on your part. The fact of the matter is that you're not giving people llevel-appropriate abilities. If you give someone Cure Light Wounds at level 10, it's just like... "Wait, why do I care?" Not like anyone would stay in the class for mechanical reasons. You just made it an even better frontloaded class. If you don't want to hold your self to a higher standard in return for divine powers, play fighter. Roy from the Order of the Stick would make a much better paladin than Miko in my opinion. He holds himself to a higher standard than some one like Miko would. Lastly, how is this more problematic than the standard code? Is it because it requires you to behave in a Good manner and not merely a non-Evil one? It's not that your standard is high... it's that your standard is overtly opinionated as to what YOU see as the way a paladin should work, and contains parts that are erroneous or just asking to start conflicts. For example "Those people deserve xyz" is just an opinionated add-on, rather than having anything to do with the paladin's actual code. That's erroneous, and there's no reason to put it there. Overall your code is just badly worded and written. That's your opinion and that's fine by me. Let's agree to disagree, okay. If you don't want honest feedback, why post?
Devil Gnasher 05-27-07, 05:21 PM	I have one question to ask you Vaalingrade, are you being sarcastic or not? Also, if you are wondering what a flumph is the good at En World have converted it to 3.5 edition. See here (http://www.enworld.org/cc/converted/aberration/flumph.htm) and in the Order of the Stick #55 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0055.html) in the ninth panel.
Devil Gnasher 05-27-07, 07:19 PM	Should I give any extra powers to this class? I was thinking of giving consecrated knights the ability to become some sort of supernatural shield that renders their charges free of harm. Of course this would require some sort of defensive stance and render the user flat-footed for six rounds. All attack rolls would be resolved against the consecrated knight using this power. The area would be a 20 ft. diameter circle centered on the innermost protected subject or herself, depending upon where the consecrated knight is and which ever one protects the most innocents. This power lasts until the threat has past regardless of the user's condition. If the consecrated knight is in front of the collection of innocents no enemy with out divine or cosmic ranks pass at all. Otherwise they can pass, but not harm the innocent, if they succeed on a Will saving throw with a DC equal to 20+the consecrated knight's class level (plus consecrated knight related Prestige Class levels)+ Wisdom bonus of the user. Would this be a good 20th level capstone ability or not?
Devil Gnasher 06-30-07, 02:41 AM	Does any one have any more comments, ideas or suggestions?
OneWinged4ngel 06-30-07, 03:56 AM	Does any one have any more comments, ideas or suggestions? People are less inclined to give comments, ideas, and suggestions if you demonstrate that you'll flat out ignore them for no reason =P (That, and most people are likely to just scan the table, see that there's nothin' to it, and leave) I already gave my feedback. You don't accomplish any of the things you said you wanted to accomplish. It's not a better idea to take it for 20 levels now, and it's even more dippable than it used to be. This thing is just bardadin bait, because the first level gives you motivate charisma along with the usual cha-synergy stuff. The new abilities are lame (Divine Balm doesn't even matter, So That Others May Live is extremely poorly written so that you can't actually use it, etc etc), what you did to the spell progression is just awful, the marshal auras are just going to make people want to dip, and you felt the strange need to write up the Code of Conduct / Associates bits even worse than the original version. Lastly, how is this more problematic than the standard code? Cutting out the stupid, baseless sniping, this is actually a worthwhile question. For reference, here's the original material: Code of Conduct A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class abilities if she ever willingly commits an evil act. Additionally, a paladin’s code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents. Associates While she may adventure with characters of any good or neutral alignment, a paladin will never knowingly associate with evil characters, nor will she continue an association with someone who consistently offends her moral code. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good. Short and concise, to the point. It's got its problems, but you pretty much have the same code infused with personal opinions (without actually stating new rules) First thing we notice, yours are a lot longer, and a lot more bloated. Let's see what you bloated it with... Code of Conduct: A consecrated knight must be of good alignment and loses all class abilities if she ever willingly commits an evil act. Same as PHB. No improvement, but it's not worse either. Additionally, a consecrated knight’s code requires that she act with honor (not lying and not cheating unless the life or dignity of an innocent is at stake, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need, and punish those who harm or threaten innocents. Just like the old one, except "You're allowed to lie and cheat if you feel that you can justify it." You'd get away with it in the core paladin anyways, since you only fall if you *grossly* violate the code, so there's not much point to adding the qualifier. Not so bad yet, though. Also a consecrated knight may flee from battle only if her charges are safely retreating themselves. Why add this? What defines a "charge"? Isn't this already covered in the general sense of "act with honor"? This clause is unnecessary. She may drink alcoholic beverages and gamble if such activities are permitted by her religion, provided that she doesn’t drink or gamble to excess. Why add this? The original doesn't say you can't drink or gamble... so why give express permission? You could go on and list 1000 other things that a paladin is allowed to do without violating the code, but it's not actually any improvement. There's nothing evil about gambling or drinking in D&D, so why add this? It's just bloating the entry. And making the class feel even *more* dictated by arbitrary rules outside of the character, setting, etc. All you're saying is that there ISN'T a rule about it in the code of conduct. Spending a lot of time writing what ISN'T in the code of conduct is pointless. A consecrated knight must also actively perform good deeds whenever the need arises. In other words fighting evil alone is not enough to be a consecrated knight. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how this reads literally. If there is an opportunity for a good act, you must be lawful stupid. At least, that's how a lot of people are going to take that. It's also something that's generally covered by the idea of being "Good" and "acting with honor" and all that. So it's also more unnecessary bloating. Acts of mercy and compassion are the hallmarks of a consecrated knight and she must always be ready to perform such actions. This does not mean that you have to show any pity for some one who has committed truly evil or even vile acts and does not repent. Yada yada, more rambling, doesn't actually add anything new... irrelevant declaration (you don't have to pity the evil guy! Well, that's not an addition to the code. In fact, it's not even a rule. It's just saying that there's NOT a rule there)... Some one like that would deserve hanging or some other capital or very harsh punishment. This is more of you "dictating the personality of every paladin." And there's no actual reason for you to write this, since again you're not stating the rules of the code of conduct, but just ranting about your personal views of morality. You're just injecting your biased little opinion here for no particular reason. Maybe some paladins don't think that everyone would actually deserve hanging? What if they don't believe in capital punishment? Are they then a bad paladin? Just because you happen to be a warrior for cosmic or divine good doesn't mean you're a nice guy. More of this stuff that's not actually related to the CoC... it's just bloating the description with an infusion of your unrelated opinions on how that guy over there should be playing his paladin (without actually stating rules of conduct). If you want to write a CoC... write about the CoC (the actual code of honor), not "how I think morality works and what a paladin's personality should be." So... you don't actually do anything to improve the CoC here. Most of the stuff you added is either you just stating an opinion (without saying that it's a rule the paladin must follow), reiterating something that's already covered, or saying that something ISN'T covered, all of which are totally pointless. All you've done is put a lot of filler in the entry, written in a way which is tempting to misinterpret (even moreso than the core CoC) Associates: While she may adventure with characters of any good or neutral alignment, a consecrated knight will never knowingly associate with evil characters, nor will she continue an association with someone who consistently offends her moral code. A consecrated knight may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are the same alignment. Note: straitjacketing an evilly aligned character or otherwise preventing him from causing harm out side of battle is not an association. You're not his friend, pal, buddy or partner. You're his warden. Act like it. More of that dictated fluff. "You're a warden when dealing with evil characters." "Act like I tell you to, don't make up your own character's personality." You sound like the kind of guy who would grab away someone's character sheet and say "No, you'd actually do this."
Devil Gnasher 07-28-07, 01:13 AM	Two new class feats for comment and review. Heroic self-sacrifice. Requirements: Good alignment, divine grace, lay on hands and a Charisma of 15 and Wisdom of 13. Benefits: A consecrated knight can use lay on hands on others even when her daily allotment of this power has been used up. This is accomplished by transferring your hit points to a recipient on a one to one hit point ratio. Heavenly fury. Requirements: Good alignment, divine grace, smite evil 3 times per day, Wisdom, Charisma and Constitution 13. Benefits: While guarding an innocent and by invoking the holy power of one of the three great Upper Planes (Celestia, Elysium or Arborea) a consecrated knight can will him or her self into a cold rage in which they become supernaturally stronger and tougher than when out of this state. In game rules they gain a +2 sacred bonus to Strength and gain damage reduction/- equal to his or her Charisma modifier. The guarded innocent gains the consecrated knight's divine grace and a sacred AC bonus equal to the consecrated knight's Charisma modifier. Out of lack of self-concern the consecrated knight takes -2 penalty to AC and can not take any purely self-defensive actions. This requires one use of smite evil. So, what does everyone think about these feats?
OneWinged4ngel 07-28-07, 03:00 AM	Two new class feats for comment and review. Heroic self-sacrifice. Requirements: Good alignment, divine grace, lay on hands and a Charisma of 15 and Wisdom of 13. Benefits: A consecrated knight can use lay on hands on others even when her daily allotment of this power has been used up. This of course requires taking upon the beneficiary’s wounds or burden i.e. hit point damage. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/empathicTransfer.htm You may want to consider basing the wording off that. I think it's perfectly fitting for a Paladin.
Devil Gnasher 07-28-07, 02:53 PM	Two new class feats for comment and review. Heroic self-sacrifice. Requirements: Good alignment, divine grace, lay on hands and a Charisma of 15 and Wisdom of 13. Benefits: A consecrated knight can use lay on hands on others even when her daily allotment of this power has been used up. This is accomplished by transferring your hit points to a recipient on a one to one hit point ratio. How about this format?
Stormbrand 07-28-07, 08:15 PM	Does any one have any more comments, ideas or suggestions? The class needs more. Think of a logical progression from each ability. Also, don't dictate the flavour too much. Your CoC is more specific...yet you have expanded the class to Marshalls of Liberty and the like. Perhaps more advanced Detect Evil when gaining levels? Good places to look for fixes are the 'Alternate' Paladin abilities such as the Complete Warrior and Complete Champion. I typically just throw them in as bonuses. You could use them as inspiration. Spellcasting probably needs improving. Currently the spellcasting is weak enough to seem meaningless. Caster level is pretty important to keep spellcasting effective, so levels 9-14 probably have no use for the spellcasting at all. Ged rid of the Marshall Auras - they are the defining powers of another class. With respect, Marshall Auras and Leadership are very lazy ways to reflect the inspiring nature of the class. ... Thought. Spellcasting is one way for the paladin to support the party. Focus a bit more on that, and replace the Marshall Auras. If you want to be really creative, make abilities based on each of the chivalric virtues. That will take major creativity, but be worth it.
Stormbrand 07-28-07, 08:30 PM	Ideas: Make the generous nature of paladins more clear by making Lay On Hands more effective when used on others. Maybe 1 LoH point heals others 2 points, or 3, or 4, depending on the level of the paladin? Possibly alternate uses for Remove Disease? Possibly the Dragon Shaman alternate uses for Lay on Hands? Perhaps at levels 8, 13, 18, improve Aura of Courage somehow - increase the radius, improve the save vs fear, give smaller bonuses to save vs other things. Add an extra feature to Smite every 5 levels? (At 5th level, is automatically Good, at 10th, is Lawful and Good. At 15th is Cold Iron or Silver. Etc). Possibly add abilities like Consecrate (it is a consecrated knight :D ), Divine Feats (say at levels 9, 14, 19).
Devil Gnasher 07-28-07, 09:39 PM	Ideas: Make the generous nature of paladins more clear by making Lay On Hands more effective when used on others. Maybe 1 LoH point heals others 2 points, or 3, or 4, depending on the level of the paladin? Possibly alternate uses for Remove Disease? Possibly the Dragon Shaman alternate uses for Lay on Hands? Perhaps at levels 8, 13, 18, improve Aura of Courage somehow - increase the radius, improve the save vs fear, give smaller bonuses to save vs other things. Add an extra feature to Smite every 5 levels? (At 5th level, is automatically Good, at 10th, is Lawful and Good. At 15th is Cold Iron or Silver. Etc). Possibly add abilities like Consecrate (it is a consecrated knight :D ), Divine Feats (say at levels 9, 14, 19). Some of these sound like good ideas to me. I'll try to fit them in later.
Devil Gnasher 07-28-07, 09:40 PM	The class needs more. Think of a logical progression from each ability. Also, don't dictate the flavour too much. Your CoC is more specific...yet you have expanded the class to Marshalls of Liberty and the like. Perhaps more advanced Detect Evil when gaining levels? Good places to look for fixes are the 'Alternate' Paladin abilities such as the Complete Warrior and Complete Champion. I typically just throw them in as bonuses. You could use them as inspiration. Spellcasting probably needs improving. Currently the spellcasting is weak enough to seem meaningless. Caster level is pretty important to keep spellcasting effective, so levels 9-14 probably have no use for the spellcasting at all. Ged rid of the Marshall Auras - they are the defining powers of another class. With respect, Marshall Auras and Leadership are very lazy ways to reflect the inspiring nature of the class. ... Thought. Spellcasting is one way for the paladin to support the party. Focus a bit more on that, and replace the Marshall Auras. If you want to be really creative, make abilities based on each of the chivalric virtues. That will take major creativity, but be worth it. Also some very good ideas. I'll consider them as well.
Devil Gnasher 08-19-07, 08:34 PM	I added one new power gained at fourth level. That said, does any one have any ideas for the replacement of medium and heavy armor proficiency?
Stormbrand 08-20-07, 12:13 AM	The new power is actually a liability. One of the reasons people dislike paladins is the idea of his Code binding others. Allowing NPCs to make the paladin lose his powers is crippling. Why would you want replacements for armour proficiency? They are much of the point of the class.
Devil Gnasher 08-20-07, 02:30 AM	Why would you want replacements for armour proficiency? They are much of the point of the class. It’s very simple. If you’re a paladin from a culture, which lacks or doesn't use medium or heavy armor, why should you be automatically proficient in it? Would a paladin-like character from the 17th to 19th century necessarily wear chain mail or plate? Not at all. Neither should every paladin nor fighter in existence should be trained to wear medium or heavy armor. It should vary by time and place.
Stormbrand 08-20-07, 02:52 AM	It’s very simple. If you’re a paladin from a culture, which lacks or doesn't use medium or heavy armor, why should you be automatically proficient in it? Would a paladin-like character from the 17th to 19th century necessarily wear chain mail or plate? Not at all. Neither should every paladin nor fighter in existence should be trained to wear medium or heavy armor. It should vary by time and place. Then simply any combat feat of choice to replace them.
Devil Gnasher 08-20-07, 11:34 AM	Then simply any combat feat of choice to replace them. I did just that. I also modified Defense for the Repentant. I hope those help.
Devil Gnasher 09-27-07, 02:39 AM	-1. A good strong lecture is all that is needed. While untrustworthy and ignoble, the subject poses no significant harm to others. Harming the subject without just cause (such as violent or cruel behavior) is in Evil act. -2. Keep an eye on this fellow to provent him or her from causing harm to others or to discover whether or not they have committed a crime. Otherwise see above. -3. Be prepaired to kill if needed, but avoid doing so if at all possible. Make sure the subject is redeemed if feesable. -4. Bring in alive if at all possible but do not hesitate to kill if the subject threatens innocents, your self or your comrades. Do not let him or her out of your sight and do not permit them free range. -5. Kill if possible, imprision if you must. Virtually irredeemable at best. Is that pretty good?
Devil Gnasher 10-24-07, 12:16 AM	Are their any other comments?
Devil Gnasher 10-28-07, 07:16 PM	Is anyone still interested iin this class at all? If so, please respond.
Devil Gnasher 11-09-07, 10:15 PM	How about these new feats? Terror of the Unrighteous Prerequistes: Woe unto the Wicked class feature and Charisma 15. Benefit: As a standard action you may sacrifice a smite Evil use to frighten and intimidate those who harm the innocent. This means that your Woe unto the Wicked power is now a 15' foot radius effect that lasts for a number of rounds equal to half of your consecrated knight levels. The Gift of Life [Epic] Prerequistes: Lay on Hands class ability, character level of at least 21, Remove Disease 4 times per week, Heroic Self Sacrifice feat and Charisma 21. Benefit: You can now employ your Lay on Hands power to restore life to the fallen. By expending a number of Lay on Hands "points" equal the receipients hit points plus minimum number of negative hit points to cause death you can restore the subject to life as if by raise dead. This only works if the beneficary of this boon was died for no more than half the consectrated knight's class level.