another short monk question [Archive] - Wizards Community

another short monk question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
(TD)Faber
08-23-07, 03:12 PM A monk has stun attack and the knockdown feat.
He attacks his opponent and deals more then 10 damage, he also stuns his opponent.
Because he dealt more then 10 damage he may trip his opponent as a free action. Is this trip an automatic succes because the opponent is stunned?
goawayugh
08-23-07, 03:31 PM stunned (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_stunned&alpha=)

A stunned creature drops everything held, can't take actions, takes a -2 penalty to AC, and loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any).
Source: PHB, DMG

So, no, it is not automatic. They just lose their Dex to AC and also have a -2. They "can't take actions", not they can't react.
(TD)Faber
08-23-07, 03:35 PM So they would be able to resist the trip, but not try to trip the monk back ofcourse.
But then again, if the stunned opponent cant even hold his own weapons, he shouldn't be able to resist an trip attempt, right?
goawayugh
08-23-07, 03:49 PM Making checks to resist/lessen an effect is not as logical as it may seem. For example, even though it may sound silly at first, a person who is paralyzed still gets a Reflex save against an area effect (like fireball). The check/save to resist an effect does not necessarily represent what you can do physically to avoid it, it also incorporates in luck and any other factors that may be out of your control.

So in response to your question: I don't think he would get a chance to try to trip you too (because he can't take actions), but at the same time, he still gets the check to avoid being tripped.
(TD)Faber
08-23-07, 03:55 PM Is this stated somewhere in the dmg or the phb?
goawayugh
08-23-07, 04:22 PM It is not a matter of where it says that you do still get a save, it doesn't say that you don't. There are a few things that mention specifically about how they affect saves. Example: Otto's Irresistable Dance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/irresistibleDance.htm).

Look at the defination of paralyzed (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_paralyzed&alpha=)

paralyzed

Frozen in place and unable to move or act, such as by the hold person spell. A paralyzed character has effective Dexterity and Strength scores of 0 and is helpless, but can take purely mental actions. A winged creature flying in the air at the time that it becomes paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls. A paralyzed swimmer can't swim and may drown. A creature can move through a space occupied by a paralyzed creature -- ally or not. Each square occupied by a paralyzed creature, however, counts as 2 squares.

As an extraordinary or supernatural ability, this special attack renders the victim immobile. Paralysis works on the body, and a character can usually resist it with a Fortitude saving throw (the DC is given in the creature's description). Unlike hold person and similar effects, a paralysis effect does not allow a new save each round.
Source: PHB, DMG, MM

No where in there does it say that you automatically fail Reflex saves. Your Dex is treated as 0, so your Mod would be -5, but you still get the save. In the example of a fireball, if you made the save, it would represent a spot in the flames where it wasn't so hot...you got lucky.

Any thing that affects your saves will specifically mention it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
(TD)Faber 08-23-07, 03:12 PM	A monk has stun attack and the knockdown feat. He attacks his opponent and deals more then 10 damage, he also stuns his opponent. Because he dealt more then 10 damage he may trip his opponent as a free action. Is this trip an automatic succes because the opponent is stunned?
goawayugh 08-23-07, 03:31 PM	stunned (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_stunned&alpha=) A stunned creature drops everything held, can't take actions, takes a -2 penalty to AC, and loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any). Source: PHB, DMG So, no, it is not automatic. They just lose their Dex to AC and also have a -2. They "can't take actions", not they can't react.
(TD)Faber 08-23-07, 03:35 PM	So they would be able to resist the trip, but not try to trip the monk back ofcourse. But then again, if the stunned opponent cant even hold his own weapons, he shouldn't be able to resist an trip attempt, right?
goawayugh 08-23-07, 03:49 PM	Making checks to resist/lessen an effect is not as logical as it may seem. For example, even though it may sound silly at first, a person who is paralyzed still gets a Reflex save against an area effect (like fireball). The check/save to resist an effect does not necessarily represent what you can do physically to avoid it, it also incorporates in luck and any other factors that may be out of your control. So in response to your question: I don't think he would get a chance to try to trip you too (because he can't take actions), but at the same time, he still gets the check to avoid being tripped.
(TD)Faber 08-23-07, 03:55 PM	Is this stated somewhere in the dmg or the phb?
goawayugh 08-23-07, 04:22 PM	It is not a matter of where it says that you do still get a save, it doesn't say that you don't. There are a few things that mention specifically about how they affect saves. Example: Otto's Irresistable Dance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/irresistibleDance.htm). Look at the defination of paralyzed (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_paralyzed&alpha=) paralyzed Frozen in place and unable to move or act, such as by the hold person spell. A paralyzed character has effective Dexterity and Strength scores of 0 and is helpless, but can take purely mental actions. A winged creature flying in the air at the time that it becomes paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls. A paralyzed swimmer can't swim and may drown. A creature can move through a space occupied by a paralyzed creature -- ally or not. Each square occupied by a paralyzed creature, however, counts as 2 squares. As an extraordinary or supernatural ability, this special attack renders the victim immobile. Paralysis works on the body, and a character can usually resist it with a Fortitude saving throw (the DC is given in the creature's description). Unlike hold person and similar effects, a paralysis effect does not allow a new save each round. Source: PHB, DMG, MM No where in there does it say that you automatically fail Reflex saves. Your Dex is treated as 0, so your Mod would be -5, but you still get the save. In the example of a fireball, if you made the save, it would represent a spot in the flames where it wasn't so hot...you got lucky. Any thing that affects your saves will specifically mention it.