Another Sorcerer Fix (P.E.M.D.A.S. or P.E.A.C.H.) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Another Sorcerer Fix (P.E.M.D.A.S. or P.E.A.C.H.) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
guru7892
05-17-06, 11:13 PM [update!] Near the bottom of this thread there are some changes suggested by me.

short intro:
we all know the sorcerer in the PHB is weak. Some people don't like the away the spell caster has become a dragons *****. Well a while ago I made a sorcerer fix and I have let it ferment on my computer. Now I think It's ready to see the world. I also plan on using this sorcerer in a campagin where it will be a symbol of the old way of magic.
Original intro
I’m not trying to fix it with feats or some such, I’m trying to help it gain an identity as a arcane spell caster that, instead of knowing all spells, has access to only a few, but knows them well. This is kind of a step away from sorcerers being related to dragons but I have heard people meet that idea with animosity. So I have been making some class features that I thought would work well, but I don’t want this to get overpowered (which I feel it might be).
SORCERER
lvl BAB ref frt will spells
0th 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Enhanced casting+1
Sorcerer material componants 3+3r 1+1r — — — — — — — —
2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 4+4r 2+2r — — — — — — — —
3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 4+4r 2+2r 1+1r — — — — — — —
4th +2 +1 +1 +4 4+4r 3+3r 2+2r — — — — — — —
5th +2 +1 +1 +4 Enhanced casting+2 4+4r 3+3r 2+2r 1+1r — — — — — —
6th +3 +2 +2 +5 4+4r 3+3r 3+3r 2+2r — — — — — —
7th +3 +2 +2 +5 4+4r 4+4r 3+3r 2+2r 1+1r — — — — —
8th +4 +2 +2 +6 Augmented casting 1st4+4r 4+4r 3+3r 3+3r 2+2r — — — — —
9th +4 +3 +3 +6 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 3+3r 2+2r 1+1r — — — —
10th +5 +3 +3 +7 Enhanced casting+3 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 3+3r 3+3r 2+2r — — — —
11th +5 +3 +3 +7 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 3+3r 2+2r 1+1r — — —
12th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 Augmented casting 2nd 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 3+3r 3+3r 2+2r — — —
13th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 4+4r 4+4r 4+4 4+4r 4+4r 3+3r 2+2r 1+1r — —
14th +7/+2 +4 +4 +9 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 3+3r 3+3r 2+2r — —
15th +7/+2 +5 +5 +9 Enhanced casting+4 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 3+3r 2+2r 1+1r —
16th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 Anti-magic casting,
Augmented casting 3rd 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 3+3r 3+3r 2+2r —
17th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 3+3r 2+2r 1+1r
18th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 3+3r 3+3r 2+2r
19th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 3+3r 3+3r
20th +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Enhanced casting+5
Augmented casting 4th 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r

*note 4r means 4 rystic spells of the givin level

GRI
abilities: charisma. dex and con arn't bad either for obvious reasons.
alignment: any, predesposition to chaos
HD:d4
skills: bluff(cha),concentration(con),proffessio n(wis),craft,spellcraft,knowlege arcana(int).
(2+int)x4
2+inteligence

class features

weapon and armor prof:
simple weapons only, armor may disrupt spells

spells
They must have cha equal to 10 = spell level to learn or cast, DC vs spells is 10+spelllevel+cha mod.

The sorcerer doesn't need to prepare spells.Sorcerers also do not need material components for their spells as long as they cost less than their level x 25 gp

sorcerer spells known (as table 3-17 pg 54 PHB, tables are hard to make...)
A sorcerer can only know several spells at a time and learns new spells at a given rate see table). Although, that doesn’t mean they cannot learn spells outside this rate. If a new spell is wished to be learned outside the given rate the spell level x50 exp and the spell’s level d4 days (2d4 for second, 6d4 for 6th) may be expended to add the spell to the list of spells known. Another spell must become ‘forgotten’ in order to do this. Spells forgotten can be recalled to be swapped with another spell with the expenditure of the spells level x5 exp and the spells levels in days minus the sorcerer’s charisma modifier to a minimum of 1 day. You can only change one spell per day/days.

Enhanced casting
first, fifth and every 5 levels after cast spell as if +1 caster level for spell effects& SR (not for class features or feats ect.)
Augmented casting
8th level can extend the ‘caps’ of a (non-rystic) spell by 1 degree (allowing the sorcerer’s caster level for extra effects past the normal amount (like 6 magic missiles)). Can’t be used with meta-magic. The sorcerer gets to extend the ‘caps’ by another degree every 4 levels after the eight. This can be done once per day for one spell cast for every 3 levels of sorcerer.
Rystic spells
‘rystic’ cast spells dont use up spell (can only be used once per class alloted spell slot) per day (no extra spells due to high ability scores), but can be dispelled by only an opposed check and no loss of spell .they last half as long, or deal half damage or allow of half hd of creatures ect. but these reductions never lessen anything to less then 1(DM may arbitrate). range, increases/decreases, or the spell save dc are unaffected. These spells can’t be used with meta-magic. Rystic spells have a -5 to checks for passing spell resistance.
Anti-magic casting
At 16th level a sorcerer my cast a spell in an anti-magic area although the spell's effect is lessened to that of a rystic spell. for example, casting a fireball spell in an antimagic area would result in a rystic fireball that did half damage. The casting of the said fireball would result in the loss of a normal fireball spell for the day, as if it were cast normaly.
guru7892
05-18-06, 08:42 PM c'mon, you can at least say there is nothing to see here!
:bump:
remember, you need to tell me things suck because i can find that out on my own.
somethings90
05-18-06, 09:01 PM first post: Do the rystic spells have half saving through dc's?
guru7892
05-18-06, 09:23 PM no, it's limited to only the effect of the spells (otherwise rystic spells would be useless for anything other than buffs).

thank you, i had completly overlooked that.
somethings90
05-19-06, 12:20 PM how about giving them umd as a class skill, changing the antimagic casting so that only rystic spells work, take out the sorcerer materal components and give it escew materals and give it some improvized materals ability(I'll try to make one).
somethings90
05-19-06, 12:22 PM double post
Bladegeek
05-19-06, 03:32 PM You have made some good points.......but at this point anything you come up with is better then what WoTC has done in the PH or the PHII for Sorcerers.
guru7892
05-20-06, 12:48 AM how about giving them umd as a class skill, changing the antimagic casting so that only rystic spells work, take out the sorcerer materal components and give it escew materals and give it some improvized materals ability (I'll try to make one).

UMD?
United Militia Defactors?
Unwanted Meat Drainers?
Uranium Marketing Device?
I'm pullin a blank for UMD...

rystic spells are supposed to be less effective than regular spells. but I think I can clarify some things in the anti-magic casting area.

I'm not sure about how to pull off an imporvised material comonant ability... I'm not even sure where to start.
danielinthewolvesden
05-20-06, 02:47 AM [i]short intro:
we all know the sorcerer in the PHB is weak. Some people don't like the away the spell caster has become a dragons *****. .

It isn't weak. It's in the top third in power of all classes. It's just that it's #12 (of 30) and Wizard is #2 (more or less tied with Cleric). It's Wizard that's too powerful, not Sorc too weak.

What I have suggested is one (count 'em, 1) bonus feat @ 1st level. Dragonic Heritage, Eschew materials, one of the Bloodline feats from the Dragon, whatever. But something that gives your Sorc his "bloodline" or his personalization, your choice. That's it. If someone said "Well, and how about adding in your choice of any one more class skill?" (which is what I suggest for Fighter), I could go for that, too I guess.

But if you boost Sorc to the Power level of Wizard, you're only contributing to Power Creep. :mad: :weep:
somethings90
05-20-06, 05:01 PM UMD?
United Militia Defactors?
Unwanted Meat Drainers?
Uranium Marketing Device?
I'm pullin a blank for UMD....
UMD=use magical device. sorry
rystic spells are supposed to be less effective than regular spells. but I think I can clarify some things in the anti-magic casting area.
you would have less spells to use in an anti-magic field but you should make it how you like.
I'm not sure about how to pull off an imporvised material comonant ability... I'm not even sure where to start.
I will try to make one. I am not good at it but it might give you an idea.
Improvized Material Component:
You have the ability to use spells with cheeper components.
At first level you can decrese the cost by 10% but gain an arcane spell failure of 5%. Every 5 levele this increases the by cost decrease 10% and spell failure by 5% max of 50% decrease and 25% spell failure at level 20. You can ues any of these incraments. This stacks with spell failure from armor.

Sorry. I am not good at this but this is just an idea. Make your class how you want it.

By the way what is pedmas?
guru7892
05-21-06, 03:23 AM UMD=use magical device. sorry
...I would rather not because then a sorcerer could load up on wands at high levels.
you would have less spells to use in an anti-magic field but you should make it how you like. yeah, I want to keep an antimagic feild effective vs. casters.

I will try to make one. I am not good at it but it might give you an idea.
Improvized Material Component:
You have the ability to use spells with cheeper components.
At first level you can decrese the cost by 10% but gain an arcane spell failure of 5%. Every 5 levele this increases the by cost decrease 10% and spell failure by 5% max of 50% decrease and 25% spell failure at level 20. You can ues any of these incraments. This stacks with spell failure from armor.
The problem I see is that it decreses by percent. This means you need a calculater at the table for certain material commonants. I just see it being complex.

They system right now, upon further examination, are overpowered. (see animate dead and wish)
By the way what is pedmas?
parenthesis, exponants, divide/multiply,add/subtract... OoO (order of operataions)
Maraxus
05-21-06, 07:46 AM short intro:
we all know the sorcerer in the PHB is weak. Some people don't like the away the spell caster has become a dragons *****. Well a while ago I made a sorcerer fix and I have let it ferment on my computer. Now I think It's ready to see the world. I also plan on using this sorcerer in a campagin where it will be a symbol of the old way of magic.

Original intro
I’m not trying to fix it with feats or some such, I’m trying to help it gain an identity as a arcane spell caster that, instead of knowing all spells, has access to only a few, but knows them well. This is kind of a step away from sorcerers being related to dragons but I have heard people meet that idea with animosity. So I have been making some class features that I thought would work well, but I don’t want this to get overpowered (which I feel it might be).

Okay, if you like it that way, there is nothing we can or need to do about it. But for the sake of those playing with you: Don't use it in a real game!
You sound like a dm and then you should know, that as NPCs, sorcerers are allready much stronger more dangerous than wizards. Never run out of allways the right spells. And if you want to be real evil use arcane preparation + quicken spell or some "Swift Action" Spells.
So as an NPC your "fix" is unnecessary and mean (since the players have a toughter enemy without getting more reward).

Or do you really want to give it to a player? Sure, he will be happy, but hopefully he is the only arcane caster, because this one will overpower any other. The wizard needs that "new spell-levels one level earlier", to compete with the sorcerer (well, except for level 3 but the game can't be ballanced on every single level, right? ;) ).
(And since arcane casters are allready the strongest you can get -level 10 and up- the other jobs won't be that happy with another boost, too.)

Damn, right from the start, WotC should have printed two sorcerers, the "Original" sorcerer, as we know him, and the "Boo-woo, I want to play a sorcerer but I'm to dumb to build/play him correctly"-Sorcerer that is totally overpowered; to countervail bad players trying to use this advanced class.
:devil:

PS: My Sorcerer-Fix, should I ever use one: 4 Skill-Points. Done!
guru7892
05-21-06, 06:05 PM Okay, if you like it that way, there is nothing we can or need to do about it. But for the sake of those playing with you: Don't use it in a real game!
You sound like a dm and then you should know, that as NPCs, sorcerers are allready much stronger more dangerous than wizards. Never run out of allways the right spells. And if you want to be real evil use arcane preparation + quicken spell or some "Swift Action" Spells.
So as an NPC your "fix" is unnecessary and mean (since the players have a toughter enemy without getting more reward).
ook, this class is being a little over blown here. Remember that the rystic casting is much lower in power and cant use meta-magic feats; as well as the augmented casting.

Or do you really want to give it to a player? Sure, he will be happy, but hopefully he is the only arcane caster, because this one will overpower any other. The wizard needs that "new spell-levels one level earlier", to compete with the sorcerer (well, except for level 3 but the game can't be ballanced on every single level, right? ;) ).
(And since arcane casters are allready the strongest you can get -level 10 and up- the other jobs won't be that happy with another boost, too.)
your forgetting that sorcerers cant change their spell setup as willy nilly and wizards. wizards can much more easily adapt to situations where certain opponants are resistent to emmental types, or when other players need 'buff' spells to damage or suvive encounters.

Damn, right from the start, WotC should have printed two sorcerers, the "Original" sorcerer, as we know him, and the "Boo-woo, I want to play a sorcerer but I'm to dumb to build/play him correctly"-Sorcerer that is totally overpowered; to countervail bad players trying to use this advanced class.
Players shouldn't be totaly forced into certain play styles or min/maxamizing builds to stay effective. I do not see this class as getting min/maxed till kingdom come because several of its abilities dont allow metamagic feats.

a munchkin could break this class; but otherwise I think its pretty solid. If you really want to make me scrap this class; show me numbers (pemdas)

PS: My Sorcerer-Fix, should I ever use one: 4 Skill-Points. Done!
you think sorcerers are fine, yet you've never used one. I had a feeling this class was overpowered but your not really helping.

If you people want me to change things; show me numbers or a solution please, they are very helpful. If you point out a problem and have no data or ideas; it doesn't change anything. Now you don't need to have the answers to ALL problems, but at least don't attack.

Maraxus, you may not have been attacking, (you may have just been over zealous). but I felt a little bit attacked. I'm ok though, because I took a nap. I still dont know what to change based on your post.
guru7892
05-30-06, 11:11 PM :bump:
also, should I scrap the whole rystic casting thing? (and possibly restore the regular casting chart of a sorcerer?)
guru7892
06-05-06, 10:02 PM :bump:
also, should I scrap the whole rystic casting thing? (and possibly restore the regular casting chart of a sorcerer?)
due to the overwhelming feed back...

c'mon people! I need to know.

I also have looked at the ultimate wizard done by...umm...somone, but it doesnt really fit as there is way to much emphasis on dragon blood and stuff. This sorcerer is supposed to be more of an impressionist artist with magic; where a wizard is an architech of magic.
guru7892
06-24-06, 04:26 AM I would like feedback on the suggestion of eliminating the rystic casting and restoring the original sorcerers casting. I have also made some other changes.

IF that was done the class features would look kinda like this (everything else would remain unchanged):

Note: No fammiliar
spell learning/remembering
a sorcerer can choose to learn a new spell, but they do remember spells they did have(but cannot cast them). If a new spell is wished to be learned outside the given rate, the spell level x50 exp and the spell’s level d4 days (2d4 for second, 6d4 for 6th) may be expended to add the spell to the list of spells known. Another spell must become ‘forgotten’ in order to do this. Spells forgotten can be recalled to be swapped with another spell with the expenditure of the spells level x5 exp and the spells levels in days minus the sorcerer’s charisma modifier to a minimum of 1 day. You can only change one spell per day/days.
Enhanced casting
first, fifth and every 5 levels after cast spell as if +1 caster level for spell effects& SR (not for class features or feats ect.)

Augmented casting
8th level can extend the ‘caps’ of a spell by 1 degree (allowing the sorcerer’s caster level for extra effects past the normal amount (like 6 magic missiles)). If used with meta magic, the spell level increases by 2. The sorcerer gets to extend the ‘caps’ by another degree every 4 levels after the eight. every extensions after he first raise the spell level by 1.

Anti-magic casting
At 16th level a sorcerer my cast a spell in an anti-magic area as if it's spell level was 3 levels higher.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
guru7892 05-17-06, 11:13 PM	[update!] Near the bottom of this thread there are some changes suggested by me. short intro: we all know the sorcerer in the PHB is weak. Some people don't like the away the spell caster has become a dragons ****. Well a while ago I made a sorcerer fix and I have let it ferment on my computer. Now I think It's ready to see the world. I also plan on using this sorcerer in a campagin where it will be a symbol of the old way of magic. Original intro I’m not trying to fix it with feats or some such, I’m trying to help it gain an identity as a arcane spell caster that, instead of knowing all spells, has access to only a few, but knows them well. This is kind of a step away from sorcerers being related to dragons but I have heard people meet that idea with animosity. So I have been making some class features that I thought would work well, but I don’t want this to get overpowered (which I feel it might be). SORCERER lvl BAB ref frt will spells 0th 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th 1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Enhanced casting+1 Sorcerer material componants 3+3r 1+1r — — — — — — — — 2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 4+4r 2+2r — — — — — — — — 3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 4+4r 2+2r 1+1r — — — — — — — 4th +2 +1 +1 +4 4+4r 3+3r 2+2r — — — — — — — 5th +2 +1 +1 +4 Enhanced casting+2 4+4r 3+3r 2+2r 1+1r — — — — — — 6th +3 +2 +2 +5 4+4r 3+3r 3+3r 2+2r — — — — — — 7th +3 +2 +2 +5 4+4r 4+4r 3+3r 2+2r 1+1r — — — — — 8th +4 +2 +2 +6 Augmented casting 1st4+4r 4+4r 3+3r 3+3r 2+2r — — — — — 9th +4 +3 +3 +6 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 3+3r 2+2r 1+1r — — — — 10th +5 +3 +3 +7 Enhanced casting+3 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 3+3r 3+3r 2+2r — — — — 11th +5 +3 +3 +7 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 3+3r 2+2r 1+1r — — — 12th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 Augmented casting 2nd 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 3+3r 3+3r 2+2r — — — 13th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 4+4r 4+4r 4+4 4+4r 4+4r 3+3r 2+2r 1+1r — — 14th +7/+2 +4 +4 +9 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 3+3r 3+3r 2+2r — — 15th +7/+2 +5 +5 +9 Enhanced casting+4 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 3+3r 2+2r 1+1r — 16th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 Anti-magic casting, Augmented casting 3rd 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 3+3r 3+3r 2+2r — 17th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 3+3r 2+2r 1+1r 18th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 3+3r 3+3r 2+2r 19th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 3+3r 3+3r 20th +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Enhanced casting+5 Augmented casting 4th 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r 4+4r note 4r means 4 rystic spells of the givin level GRI abilities: charisma. dex and con arn't bad either for obvious reasons. alignment: any, predesposition to chaos HD:d4 skills: bluff(cha),concentration(con),proffessio n(wis),craft,spellcraft,knowlege arcana(int). (2+int)x4 2+inteligence class features weapon and armor prof: simple weapons only, armor may disrupt spells spells They must have cha equal to 10 = spell level to learn or cast, DC vs spells is 10+spelllevel+cha mod. The sorcerer doesn't need to prepare spells.Sorcerers also do not need material components for their spells as long as they cost less than their level x 25 gp sorcerer spells known (as table 3-17 pg 54 PHB, tables are hard to make...) A sorcerer can only know several spells at a time and learns new spells at a given rate see table). Although, that doesn’t mean they cannot learn spells outside this rate. If a new spell is wished to be learned outside the given rate the spell level x50 exp and the spell’s level d4 days (2d4 for second, 6d4 for 6th) may be expended to add the spell to the list of spells known. Another spell must become ‘forgotten’ in order to do this. Spells forgotten can be recalled to be swapped with another spell with the expenditure of the spells level x5 exp and the spells levels in days minus the sorcerer’s charisma modifier to a minimum of 1 day. You can only change one spell per day/days. Enhanced casting first, fifth and every 5 levels after cast spell as if +1 caster level for spell effects& SR (not for class features or feats ect.) Augmented casting 8th level can extend the ‘caps’ of a (non-rystic) spell by 1 degree (allowing the sorcerer’s caster level for extra effects past the normal amount (like 6 magic missiles)). Can’t be used with meta-magic. The sorcerer gets to extend the ‘caps’ by another degree every 4 levels after the eight. This can be done once per day for one spell cast for every 3 levels of sorcerer. Rystic spells ‘rystic’ cast spells dont use up spell (can only be used once per class alloted spell slot) per day (no extra spells due to high ability scores), but can be dispelled by only an opposed check and no loss of spell .they last half as long, or deal half damage or allow of half hd of creatures ect. but these reductions never lessen anything to less then 1(DM may arbitrate). range, increases/decreases, or the spell save dc are unaffected. These spells can’t be used with meta-magic. Rystic spells have a -5 to checks for passing spell resistance. Anti-magic casting At 16th level a sorcerer my cast a spell in an anti-magic area although the spell's effect is lessened to that of a rystic spell. for example, casting a fireball spell in an antimagic area would result in a rystic fireball that did half damage. The casting of the said fireball would result in the loss of a normal fireball spell for the day, as if it were cast normaly.
guru7892 05-18-06, 08:42 PM	c'mon, you can at least say there is nothing to see here! :bump: remember, you need to tell me things suck because i can find that out on my own.
somethings90 05-18-06, 09:01 PM	first post: Do the rystic spells have half saving through dc's?
guru7892 05-18-06, 09:23 PM	no, it's limited to only the effect of the spells (otherwise rystic spells would be useless for anything other than buffs). thank you, i had completly overlooked that.
somethings90 05-19-06, 12:20 PM	how about giving them umd as a class skill, changing the antimagic casting so that only rystic spells work, take out the sorcerer materal components and give it escew materals and give it some improvized materals ability(I'll try to make one).
somethings90 05-19-06, 12:22 PM	double post
Bladegeek 05-19-06, 03:32 PM	You have made some good points.......but at this point anything you come up with is better then what WoTC has done in the PH or the PHII for Sorcerers.
guru7892 05-20-06, 12:48 AM	how about giving them umd as a class skill, changing the antimagic casting so that only rystic spells work, take out the sorcerer materal components and give it escew materals and give it some improvized materals ability (I'll try to make one). UMD? United Militia Defactors? Unwanted Meat Drainers? Uranium Marketing Device? I'm pullin a blank for UMD... rystic spells are supposed to be less effective than regular spells. but I think I can clarify some things in the anti-magic casting area. I'm not sure about how to pull off an imporvised material comonant ability... I'm not even sure where to start.
danielinthewolvesden 05-20-06, 02:47 AM	[i]short intro: we all know the sorcerer in the PHB is weak. Some people don't like the away the spell caster has become a dragons *****. . It isn't weak. It's in the top third in power of all classes. It's just that it's #12 (of 30) and Wizard is #2 (more or less tied with Cleric). It's Wizard that's too powerful, not Sorc too weak. What I have suggested is one (count 'em, 1) bonus feat @ 1st level. Dragonic Heritage, Eschew materials, one of the Bloodline feats from the Dragon, whatever. But something that gives your Sorc his "bloodline" or his personalization, your choice. That's it. If someone said "Well, and how about adding in your choice of any one more class skill?" (which is what I suggest for Fighter), I could go for that, too I guess. But if you boost Sorc to the Power level of Wizard, you're only contributing to Power Creep. :mad: :weep:
somethings90 05-20-06, 05:01 PM	UMD? United Militia Defactors? Unwanted Meat Drainers? Uranium Marketing Device? I'm pullin a blank for UMD.... UMD=use magical device. sorry rystic spells are supposed to be less effective than regular spells. but I think I can clarify some things in the anti-magic casting area. you would have less spells to use in an anti-magic field but you should make it how you like. I'm not sure about how to pull off an imporvised material comonant ability... I'm not even sure where to start. I will try to make one. I am not good at it but it might give you an idea. Improvized Material Component: You have the ability to use spells with cheeper components. At first level you can decrese the cost by 10% but gain an arcane spell failure of 5%. Every 5 levele this increases the by cost decrease 10% and spell failure by 5% max of 50% decrease and 25% spell failure at level 20. You can ues any of these incraments. This stacks with spell failure from armor. Sorry. I am not good at this but this is just an idea. Make your class how you want it. By the way what is pedmas?
guru7892 05-21-06, 03:23 AM	UMD=use magical device. sorry ...I would rather not because then a sorcerer could load up on wands at high levels. you would have less spells to use in an anti-magic field but you should make it how you like. yeah, I want to keep an antimagic feild effective vs. casters. I will try to make one. I am not good at it but it might give you an idea. Improvized Material Component: You have the ability to use spells with cheeper components. At first level you can decrese the cost by 10% but gain an arcane spell failure of 5%. Every 5 levele this increases the by cost decrease 10% and spell failure by 5% max of 50% decrease and 25% spell failure at level 20. You can ues any of these incraments. This stacks with spell failure from armor. The problem I see is that it decreses by percent. This means you need a calculater at the table for certain material commonants. I just see it being complex. They system right now, upon further examination, are overpowered. (see animate dead and wish) By the way what is pedmas? parenthesis, exponants, divide/multiply,add/subtract... OoO (order of operataions)
Maraxus 05-21-06, 07:46 AM	short intro: we all know the sorcerer in the PHB is weak. Some people don't like the away the spell caster has become a dragons *****. Well a while ago I made a sorcerer fix and I have let it ferment on my computer. Now I think It's ready to see the world. I also plan on using this sorcerer in a campagin where it will be a symbol of the old way of magic. Original intro I’m not trying to fix it with feats or some such, I’m trying to help it gain an identity as a arcane spell caster that, instead of knowing all spells, has access to only a few, but knows them well. This is kind of a step away from sorcerers being related to dragons but I have heard people meet that idea with animosity. So I have been making some class features that I thought would work well, but I don’t want this to get overpowered (which I feel it might be). Okay, if you like it that way, there is nothing we can or need to do about it. But for the sake of those playing with you: Don't use it in a real game! You sound like a dm and then you should know, that as NPCs, sorcerers are allready much stronger more dangerous than wizards. Never run out of allways the right spells. And if you want to be real evil use arcane preparation + quicken spell or some "Swift Action" Spells. So as an NPC your "fix" is unnecessary and mean (since the players have a toughter enemy without getting more reward). Or do you really want to give it to a player? Sure, he will be happy, but hopefully he is the only arcane caster, because this one will overpower any other. The wizard needs that "new spell-levels one level earlier", to compete with the sorcerer (well, except for level 3 but the game can't be ballanced on every single level, right? ;) ). (And since arcane casters are allready the strongest you can get -level 10 and up- the other jobs won't be that happy with another boost, too.) Damn, right from the start, WotC should have printed two sorcerers, the "Original" sorcerer, as we know him, and the "Boo-woo, I want to play a sorcerer but I'm to dumb to build/play him correctly"-Sorcerer that is totally overpowered; to countervail bad players trying to use this advanced class. :devil: PS: My Sorcerer-Fix, should I ever use one: 4 Skill-Points. Done!
guru7892 05-21-06, 06:05 PM	Okay, if you like it that way, there is nothing we can or need to do about it. But for the sake of those playing with you: Don't use it in a real game! You sound like a dm and then you should know, that as NPCs, sorcerers are allready much stronger more dangerous than wizards. Never run out of allways the right spells. And if you want to be real evil use arcane preparation + quicken spell or some "Swift Action" Spells. So as an NPC your "fix" is unnecessary and mean (since the players have a toughter enemy without getting more reward). ook, this class is being a little over blown here. Remember that the rystic casting is much lower in power and cant use meta-magic feats; as well as the augmented casting. Or do you really want to give it to a player? Sure, he will be happy, but hopefully he is the only arcane caster, because this one will overpower any other. The wizard needs that "new spell-levels one level earlier", to compete with the sorcerer (well, except for level 3 but the game can't be ballanced on every single level, right? ;) ). (And since arcane casters are allready the strongest you can get -level 10 and up- the other jobs won't be that happy with another boost, too.) your forgetting that sorcerers cant change their spell setup as willy nilly and wizards. wizards can much more easily adapt to situations where certain opponants are resistent to emmental types, or when other players need 'buff' spells to damage or suvive encounters. Damn, right from the start, WotC should have printed two sorcerers, the "Original" sorcerer, as we know him, and the "Boo-woo, I want to play a sorcerer but I'm to dumb to build/play him correctly"-Sorcerer that is totally overpowered; to countervail bad players trying to use this advanced class. Players shouldn't be totaly forced into certain play styles or min/maxamizing builds to stay effective. I do not see this class as getting min/maxed till kingdom come because several of its abilities dont allow metamagic feats. a munchkin could break this class; but otherwise I think its pretty solid. If you really want to make me scrap this class; show me numbers (pemdas) PS: My Sorcerer-Fix, should I ever use one: 4 Skill-Points. Done! you think sorcerers are fine, yet you've never used one. I had a feeling this class was overpowered but your not really helping. If you people want me to change things; show me numbers or a solution please, they are very helpful. If you point out a problem and have no data or ideas; it doesn't change anything. Now you don't need to have the answers to ALL problems, but at least don't attack. Maraxus, you may not have been attacking, (you may have just been over zealous). but I felt a little bit attacked. I'm ok though, because I took a nap. I still dont know what to change based on your post.
guru7892 05-30-06, 11:11 PM	:bump: also, should I scrap the whole rystic casting thing? (and possibly restore the regular casting chart of a sorcerer?)
guru7892 06-05-06, 10:02 PM	:bump: also, should I scrap the whole rystic casting thing? (and possibly restore the regular casting chart of a sorcerer?) due to the overwhelming feed back... c'mon people! I need to know. I also have looked at the ultimate wizard done by...umm...somone, but it doesnt really fit as there is way to much emphasis on dragon blood and stuff. This sorcerer is supposed to be more of an impressionist artist with magic; where a wizard is an architech of magic.
guru7892 06-24-06, 04:26 AM	I would like feedback on the suggestion of eliminating the rystic casting and restoring the original sorcerers casting. I have also made some other changes. IF that was done the class features would look kinda like this (everything else would remain unchanged): Note: No fammiliar spell learning/remembering a sorcerer can choose to learn a new spell, but they do remember spells they did have(but cannot cast them). If a new spell is wished to be learned outside the given rate, the spell level x50 exp and the spell’s level d4 days (2d4 for second, 6d4 for 6th) may be expended to add the spell to the list of spells known. Another spell must become ‘forgotten’ in order to do this. Spells forgotten can be recalled to be swapped with another spell with the expenditure of the spells level x5 exp and the spells levels in days minus the sorcerer’s charisma modifier to a minimum of 1 day. You can only change one spell per day/days. Enhanced casting first, fifth and every 5 levels after cast spell as if +1 caster level for spell effects& SR (not for class features or feats ect.) Augmented casting 8th level can extend the ‘caps’ of a spell by 1 degree (allowing the sorcerer’s caster level for extra effects past the normal amount (like 6 magic missiles)). If used with meta magic, the spell level increases by 2. The sorcerer gets to extend the ‘caps’ by another degree every 4 levels after the eight. every extensions after he first raise the spell level by 1. Anti-magic casting At 16th level a sorcerer my cast a spell in an anti-magic area as if it's spell level was 3 levels higher.