Post/Author/DateTime	Post
technochris81 04-10-06, 05:36 PM	what if a sorcerer just picked a certain number of schools at the beginning of the game and could cast any spells from those schools? they wouldn't get a "spells known" list at all. just a permanent "schools known" list. sort of like a spontaneous specialist. (they'd get universal spells too i guess) this might solve the flavor issue and the underpowered issue. follow up questions: -how many schools would be a fair number? -should the DM limit them just to PHB? -is this a decent variant? -chris ps: sorry in advance for those of you that already saw this post on the other forum. i just didn't get any replies there and i'm trying to decide whether to allow this for one of my games.
kelvinaw273 04-10-06, 07:09 PM	Err, I would say one or two, and exclude everything else would be the only way of doing this one fairly. In fact, I am not sure I would do this; just pick those spells and take feats to enhance your focus in those schools. This becomes doable without messing with the class at all ... sorry, dead build.
solbergb 04-10-06, 07:52 PM	This could probably work out, but it has the "cleric" problem of getting stronger with every sourcebook you allow into the campaign, so you might do better to make a "Warmage-like" spell list of related spells than say "all abjurations and enchantments". Also not all schools are created equal. Conjuration all by itself provides mobility (teleport/dim door and mount and phantom steed), all the best battlefield control spells, and if you allow CA or SC into the game, a large assortment of direct damage spells too. Plus summoned monsters add more spells into the game. It's a little weak on defense but wall and fog spells do a lot to mitigate this. Compare this to what enchantment brings to the table - some save/die type spells, a few buff spells and that's about it. While it has good spells, it lacks the versatility of the conjuration school. (or illusion, or transmutation) Schools weren't intended to be used that way (in 3.5, they seem designed to have a few key spells in each one, so you miss them if you specialize away from them, but it is an exclusive thing, not inclusive...the schools are not designed to cover "arcanist" by themself...you're supposed to have access to most of them, but maybe only a few key spells from a few) Personally, I think the spell known mechanic plus spell focus feats work better for themed sorcerer flavor. It lets you do most of your spells in one area but not totally cripple yourself with lack of a whole category of magic (such as defense, or mobility)
technochris81 04-11-06, 12:01 PM	so you're saying just give the sorcerer the same feats a wizard gets? -chris
Seeker of Undeath 04-11-06, 01:30 PM	so you're saying just give the sorcerer the same feats a wizard gets?After reading this thread I'd like to know just where you got that idea. No one has posted anything even remotely close to that statement. Besides, doing that would make the Wizard obsolete.
clash42 04-11-06, 03:06 PM	After reading this thread I'd like to know just where you got that idea. No one has posted anything even remotely close to that statement. Besides, doing that would make the Wizard obsolete. QFT, understatement.
technochris81 04-11-06, 10:18 PM	After reading this thread I'd like to know just where you got that idea. No one has posted anything even remotely close to that statement. Besides, doing that would make the Wizard obsolete. getting on a thread and implying that someone is dumb is not very nice. but i'm sure you're never misread something in your life.
Armoured Priest 04-11-06, 11:23 PM	Actually your idea was just about the exact idea I had for an sorc two years ago (I didn't get very many replies on it's thread either ;) ). I did submit it to the Uncon class redesign contest. Basically my version was pick two schools, you get all of those spells. echew materians at 1st, and at 5, 10, 15, 20 get extra spell feat to help round out spells. (I think it was a bonus feat, but one of the choices was extra spell, which is what it was intended. My friend came up with a different variant, which he also posted. His version was at 1st level, the sorc picks a school, and gets all those spells. Then at 5th the sorc picks a 2nd school. At 10, picks a 3rd and so on. Only a straight classed sorc gets to learn new schools. So a 35th level straight class sorc would know all spells.
technochris81 04-12-06, 07:43 AM	those are both pretty interesting. as far as the 2nd one goes though, wouldn't a 1st level sorcerer be way too weak and a 20th level sorcerer be way too powerful? -chris
Armoured Priest 04-12-06, 07:33 PM	those are both pretty interesting. as far as the 2nd one goes though, wouldn't a 1st level sorcerer be way too weak and a 20th level sorcerer be way too powerful? -chris Not sure, never got a chance to play-test the 2nd one. In play, the first one worked fine though. (We also gave the sorc a slightly larger skill list, UMD and a knowledge skill based on what schools were taken and 4 skills/level). Here is a list of what Knowledege skills werer gained depending on the school. Abjuration ---------dungeoneering Conjuration--------Planes Enchantment-------history Divination----------geography Evocation----------nature Necromancy--------Religion Transmutation------Arcitecture & Engineering Illusion-------------Nobility & Royalty Also I tested our a variation on the "Extra Spell" feat. Spell levels of chosen spell * 2< base caster level. Example: Bob the sorcerer is level 12, and picks up this feat. he can chose one 6th level spell, or one 5th level spell and a 1st level spell, or two 3rd level spells, or one 2nd level spell and four 1st level spells, and so on... 0 levels count as 1 after doubling. This change was added later, and didn't get as much testing, but seemed to work alright. Those that know me, know that I think both the Extra Spell feat, and the Extra Slot feat (which would use basically the same rules, although extra slot was never tested at all so I haven't even thought about any of the complications yet) are seriously underpowered.