Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Transient 01-04-06, 08:42 PM	OK i am not sure exactly what the rules are with warlocks (i don't currently have access to the book, but it is in the complete arcane) but when i was reading the description of imbue item special ability along with one of the lower level abilities (I think decieve item?), it will allow the warlock to cast any arcane spell when he has reached 12th level. Here's how? Am I missing something? assuming the warlock in question has the create item feat for wands, and ability modifier of 14 for use magic item. with imbue item it allows you to create a magic wand of what ever spell and if you are not able to caste the spell or even do not know it you roll a skill check use magic item dc 15+level of spell. the other special ability allows the warlock to "take 10" when making use magic item checks. So our 12th level warlock while resting for the day, decides to create a wand of wishes. I am unsure as to how the feat works but assuming he is able to make the wand will he be able to charge it? when he is charging it can he just "take 10" and charge it full of ninth level spell, not necessarily wish? Am i missing something or is this just incredibly broken?
Arkonth 01-04-06, 08:46 PM	I'm afraid you may have some gaps in your knowledge of how item creation works. First off it takes a long time. And it costs xp. And a warlock has to have a caster level high enough that if they did cast spells, they could cast the necessary ones. And there's no "charging" wands. Wands are made with 50 charges and once gone, those charges stay gone. Check out the rules here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm
Transient 01-04-06, 09:07 PM	ok i thought that seemed too good to be true when i was reading that
Hariman 01-04-06, 10:22 PM	Just so you know, Decieve Item only allows a warlock to take 10 when using spell trigger items. To Imbue an item, the UMD check to fake the spell must be rolled. This prevents UMD abuse for crafting items. Sorry kiddies, no insta-spell ability for you!!! Also, the Warlock must still take the necessary crafting feat to craft the item. (And you can only craft fourth level wands, at best.) Thus a Warlock will likely only have one Item crafting feat. Maybe two if you take Craft Wondrous Item at sixth or ninth level to craft a "Chasuble of fell power" (It adds +2d6 to all of your warlock's Eldritch Blasts) It lets a Warlock act as a crafter with spells that are only semi-reliable. A warlock might miss a UMD check to make a commissioned item and not be able to try the check again till the next level. (potentially months away, in game time) Just remember: The Warlock must have the necessary feat to craft an item and the warlock cannot take 10 on an imbue item check. Those are the biggies.
Seeker of Undeath 01-04-06, 11:22 PM	While it's been said that the two abilities weren't meant to work together, until there's errata there will be some worry. Now about all those issues... 1) As mentioned crafting any item requires resources (measured in gold), XP, and time. Specifically it'll take your crafter-lock 1 day for every 1,000 gold of the market price for the item. Your typical high-end wand costs something like 10,500. However, that's if they're created at 7th caster level (the minimum for a 4th-level spell). The formula for wand market price is 375x<caster level>x<spell level>. You pay half that much in resources (gold) and 1/25th that much in XP just to make your item. 2) You can't make a wand of Wish. Wish is a 9th-level spell. Wands cannot hold beyond a 4th-level spell. However, one could craft a staff of Wish. What's worse is that a staff can have multiple spells within it. Thankfully the cost is [(375*<caster level>*<level of the highest spell>)+(281.25*<caster level>*<2nd highest spell>)+(187.5*<caster level>*<3rd or lower spell>)]. That last portion of the equation is repeated for each additional spell. So you can imagine that the market value explodes quickly. 3) As mentioned the warlock must have a caster level high enough to make the item(s). 4) The warlock also has the worst skill point progression in the game, so keeping UMD maxed (the only way it stays useful) requires significant focus. So it's not as easy as it sounds unless your DM lets it be so.
Hariman 01-05-06, 01:00 AM	Human with 12 for Intelligence. 4 skill points per level. Just enough to take the major skills. You only need 5 in Knowledge Arcana and Spellcraft, Concentration and UMD get maxed and the rest get split between Bluff, Intimidate and perhaps a Craft skill. This works for fighter too.
Seeker of Undeath 01-05-06, 01:59 AM	Human with 12 for Intelligence. 4 skill points per level. Just enough to take the major skills. You only need 5 in Knowledge Arcana and Spellcraft, Concentration and UMD get maxed and the rest get split between Bluff, Intimidate and perhaps a Craft skill. This works for fighter too.If you get 4 skill points per level (x4 @ 1st), you'll have enough points to keep 4 skills at maximum rank and no points left over. Where are you getting the "rest" to throw into anything beyond Know(Arcana), Concentration, Spellcraft, and UMD?
Oliver D'Argent 01-05-06, 07:23 AM	While this is not in the official errata, it comes from Rich Baker who designed the Warlock class and, at very least, shows what he intended. Q: Is the warlock still able to make use of the "Take 10" option when crafting magic items? A: No, I wanted Deceive Item to make the warlock the master of using spell trigger items.
Dracspero 01-05-06, 12:27 PM	If you get 4 skill points per level (x4 @ 1st), you'll have enough points to keep 4 skills at maximum rank and no points left over. Where are you getting the "rest" to throw into anything beyond Know(Arcana), Concentration, Spellcraft, and UMD? He indicated only 5 ranks in Kn:Arcana, so after second level you'll have 1 skill point per level to throw into other skills. That's not really anything to write home about, but better than nothing.
Hariman 01-05-06, 01:49 PM	He indicated only 5 ranks in Kn:Arcana, so after second level you'll have 1 skill point per level to throw into other skills. That's not really anything to write home about, but better than nothing. And if you combine those few ranks with Beguiling Influence you've got a backup party face. Leaps & Bounds is also good for help with skills, especially if you multiclass into a Rogue/Warlock. Generally, you'd want to keep bluff or intimidate as high as possible, depending on the campaign and how you play the character. Keeping certain "Iconic" skills maxed can actually hinder a character. I've also never had to use concentration to Blast anyone. Typically, I moved away or used Hideous Blow while my warlock still had it.
Dracspero 01-05-06, 11:24 PM	I've also never had to use concentration to Blast anyone. Typically, I moved away or used Hideous Blow while my warlock still had it. Understood...though I believe "officially" HB provokes AoO. Also, high Concentration can be usefull with the use of scrolls, not to mention other invocations (such as Flee the Scene if you find yourself in an uncomfortable position).
Mirikon 01-06-06, 01:34 AM	A major problem with the OP's plan, besides the CL and other such requirements, is that Wands cannot hold spells over 3rd level. Now, if you really want your guy to have any spell on the books, Scribe Scroll or Magic Tatoo (Races of Faerun) is the way to go. Granted, they are one shot deals, but hey, the right spell at the right time means one shot is all you need. Scribe scroll's drawbacks are that it is a spell-completion item, and the DCs are higher. Even with Decieve Item, you have to have a really good UMD bonus to make the 20+caster level DC, until you get to high levels. Also, only yourself or other casters can use them. Magic Tattoo, on the other hand, takes up a magic item slot (unless you make it slotless, in which case it costs double, as with any other worn item). Activating a Tatoo is done by touching the tatoo, which is a standard action that doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. It isn't spell completion or command word activated. Tatoos disappear once used, and can be affected by the Erase spell, as magic writing. Failing to erase the tatoo does not trigger the spell, however. Cost for a magic tatoo is Spell Level x Caster Level x 50gp. Creating one takes one hour's work, and costs Spell level x Caster level x 25gp and spell level x caster level x 2xp. And they can be placed upon and used by others without them needing to make UMD checks. At least until the late levels, when you've got lots of magic items, this is clearly the better choice. Especially for a warlock, since you can draw from any spell list arcane or divine.
Hariman 01-06-06, 09:13 PM	Hideous Blow is one of the most disputed aspects of the warlock. I got lucky and my DM says no AoO for HB. It stopped being useful when I decided I wanted to stay out of melee. Craft Tattoo seems good, but it's expensive and limits your funds much more than Scribe Scroll. (Wand is limited to 4th level, Potions stop at 3rd level) For a slotless tattoo you pay FOUR TIMES the cost of a scroll. Also, putting at least 5 ranks each in Spellcraft and Knowledge: Arcana gets you +4 to UMD for scrolls. That means that at Fourth level, with a 16 cha and 7 ranks in UMD, Spellcraft and Knowledge: Arcana, a warlock can use base second level scrolls without a problem. You'll keep pace with the wizard in your group quite easily. Take skill Focus UMD at Level 3 and you are well ahead of the casters in your party. You can actually boost your UMD check to a level that lets you use scrolls well beyond what you can afford!!! I actually did that, my character is 4th level and has a + 17 for scrolls. I can't even afford scrolls that are fourth level but I can use the ones we find!
Oliver D'Argent 01-07-06, 08:15 AM	A major problem with the OP's plan, besides the CL and other such requirements, is that Wands cannot hold spells over 3rd level. Wands can hold up to 4th level spells. That still doesn't give you access to the most powerful spells, but it does make several more spells available that are useful. The one thing that I am unsure about, when it comes to Warlocks using UMD to fake spells needed for item creation, is this: does he only have to make the UMD check once or does he have to make the check each day he works on the item?