Post/Author/DateTime	Post
icnivad 04-11-07, 01:38 PM	I was creating an order in my world that is dedicated to fighting magic users. My question, then, is what kinds of classes are out there that are specifically anti-caster? I was picturing something that would negate spells used against themselves or even be able to take over and turn back another's spells. Something kind of like the spell breaker from Warcraft 3. Thanks.
The ShapeLess One 04-11-07, 01:41 PM	I believe that there is a PrC in Magic of Faerun just for this.
Yosho 04-11-07, 04:53 PM	If you don't mind home brewed stuff the Rune Knight by Stado would be right up your ally. Serch for it as I cant seam to get a link now.
glacialcat 04-11-07, 05:00 PM	The Occult Slayer from Complete Warrior is designed to give melee classes abilities to fight spellcasters. The Witch Slayer from Tome of Magic focuses on fighting things like Binders, but gets a few abilities which can function just as well on anything with supernatural abilities or spellcasting. And the Witchborn Binder from Magic of Incarnum is a meldshaper/ranger sort of prestige class that hunts down spellcasters.
Aage 04-11-07, 05:04 PM	If you don't mind home brewed stuff the Rune Knight by Stado would be right up your ally. Serch for it as I cant seam to get a link now. There is also the red mage by redkun. Both these can be found in the peach orchard (stickied post in this forum)...
Galen26 04-11-07, 05:04 PM	The occult slayer class from complete warrior is I think really cool, also theres a few feats from complete arcane, Mage Slayer, Pierce Magical Protection and Pierce Magical Concealment, the only problem with those feats is that they lower your caster level, but it makes great for a fighter type. Edit: beaten
Toxic_Shaman 04-11-07, 05:12 PM	The Occult Slayer is a good way to help take down Casters. I'd also suggest taking levels in classes that grant CHA to Saves like Hexblade or Paladin to better survive the caster's spells until you can take him down. Mobility is also very important as Casters won't stand still while you attack them. Fast movement is good at low levels, but at higher levels you'll need to be able to teleport or fly. Classes that grant movement bonuses are very useful here, as are items that grant movement abilities. Warlocks also can make decent anti-casters as they can fly or teleprot and have an invocation that can dispel magic. They may not be able to take one down by themselves, but they can hamper them while someone else takes them out.
The_Shaman 04-11-07, 05:15 PM	The Forsaker from Sword and Fist (iirc) was a hardcore anti-magical character, and actually got some powers by destroying magic items. If that's too much, the Shattered Peak Cultist (Lost Empires of Faerun) is a rogue of sorts who has a few abilities to foil or kill mages. There are a few other options (I'm thinking about a divine crusader with the magic or spell domain) and substitutions (i.e. Mystic Fire knight from Champions of Valor). Also, I believe there are a few warrior (particularly paladin) PrCs that can give a good account of themselves against mages i.e. Knight of the Weave, Triadic Knight, and possibly the Runescarred Berserker. Negating or taking over spells is best done with an incantatrix/archmage or incantatrix/Initiate of the 7-fold veil. Frankly, few things are better at fighting a mage than another mage. The MoF PrC (mageslayer, I believe) and its southern cousin, the Haalruan Magehound, can also give other spellcaster serious trouble.
egodefluo 04-11-07, 06:17 PM	The Occult Slayer is a good way to help take down Casters. I'd also suggest taking levels in classes that grant CHA to Saves like Hexblade or Paladin to better survive the caster's spells until you can take him down. Mobility is also very important as Casters won't stand still while you attack them. Fast movement is good at low levels, but at higher levels you'll need to be able to teleport or fly. Classes that grant movement bonuses are very useful here, as are items that grant movement abilities. Warlocks also can make decent anti-casters as they can fly or teleprot and have an invocation that can dispel magic. They may not be able to take one down by themselves, but they can hamper them while someone else takes them out. Oddly enough, a shapeshifting heavy druid imo would fit the bill VERY well. Lots of mobility, lots of ways of taking down flying, concealed creatures. Lots of entangling, or containment spells. Then just get in range, shapeshift into something that grapples and you've got one angry spellcaster.
Toxic_Shaman 04-11-07, 06:43 PM	Yeah, Druid is the answer to almost any question for a good class to do ____. Need a Fighter? Use a Druid Need a Healer? Use a Druid Need a Summoner? Use a Druid Need a Ranger? Use a Druid Need a jack of all trades? Use a Druid...
egodefluo 04-11-07, 06:57 PM	Yeah, Druid is the answer to almost any question for a good class to do ____. Need a Fighter? Use a Druid Need a Healer? Use a Druid Need a Summoner? Use a Druid Need a Ranger? Use a Druid Need a jack of all trades? Use a Druid... I suppose, but a druid isn't really going to be very good at any of those (including being a jack of all trades). But to get take out a spellcaster, you have to be very versatile, which a druid can do quite well.
Aminvelos 04-11-07, 07:49 PM	The Halruaan Magehound Shining South p.29 Monk Variant Complete Mage p. 35 Take the monks natural good saves, eventual SR, and ability to ability to reflect all spells that roll a 1d20 and we have ourselves a winner. (Spell reflects if they fail the roll) And almost any type of class with a shadow walk ability, that eventually gets the Tflammar Shadowlord. It's not that the lord has any anti-magic it's just that he can teleport right beside them and get a full round attack with additional sneak attack damage and kill the caster flat out. Oh and you probably want the race to be deep mountain dwarf, 0+LA 3 on saves to spells and spell like abilities.
Toxic_Shaman 04-11-07, 07:49 PM	The only really essential Druid Feat is Natural Spell, leaving a good bit of room for other Feats to fit the niche he is going for. If he wants to be a Ranger substitute, he can take Track, and do it at as well as a ranger. His high WIS helps with the survival check, and its not hard to get scent to make things even easier. The Druid has an easy time being a better melee combatant than the fighter by using Wildshape, and later Shapechange, if that's the route he wants to go. There are few classes that make better Jack-of all trades than a Druid. He can heal, scout, track, fight in melee, summon creatures to help the party do a variety of things and has a pretty good skilll list to choose from. Really the only niche he can't fill well at all is in the area of Trap-finding.
The_Shaman 04-11-07, 07:54 PM	That's where the summons come in, I believe ;) .
taski 04-11-07, 09:07 PM	I'm surprised no one has mentioned the spellthief. I know they're not an optimum class for most situations, but they are pretty damn good anti-casters. They can steal spells from up to 30 ft away, and they can use them, too. Plus, they get bonuses to saves against spells, and can absorb spells cast on them to fuel their own spells. Best of all, the whole spellthief (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050107a&page=1) class is available free on the website.
satanicway 04-11-07, 09:15 PM	Spell thief sucks. Low Fort/Refl Save, really weak SA damage, medium base, weak spell list. Fights against casters should end in 2 or 3 rounds, with either the death of the party or the death of the enemy caster. Any fight against a Caster that takes more them 3 rounds will end with death of some party members. So why to steal enemy spells lossing time, if you can just be a caster and cast the spells on them? Or be a pure rogue and kill them with 1 full attack with flank?
Acrid 04-11-07, 09:35 PM	personally for takign down spell casters, i like spellthiefs it is what they were meant to be
Archangel62 04-11-07, 09:39 PM	To be honest, Hexblades can work well too with Arcane resistance and mettle. But to be honest the ToB classes have better odds on caster classes because of many of their booster abilities and the Warblade has the best options. They still have a lot of areas to get screwed by casters but warblades work well as an example of something that could fight casters.
Faithkeep 04-11-07, 09:42 PM	Or customize your cleric and choose your domains and spells well. :dancin:
Spikes01k 04-11-07, 09:59 PM	Take Hex Blade till you get their dark companion, then go straight Rouge from there on! You get mantle and evasion, and eventually improved evasion! Well worth it, spell casters will be cursing you exsitance!
Acrid 04-11-07, 10:21 PM	Cause honestly if i am a mage, and this guy sneka up on me, and stabs me with a dagger, now the dagger does nto really do that much damage, but then i have lost a spell, energ resistanc,e and spell resistance, then the next thing i know the spell is beign cast right back at me. Honestly that would suck for a caster That is what a spellthief does
Dotac 04-11-07, 10:29 PM	There is a PrC in i think complete arcane called the Suel Arcanamach, or something similar. They are anticaster. The sad and simple truth is that the best way to take down a caster is with a caster.:mage:
Acrid 04-11-07, 10:42 PM	what abotu somethign with iniate of the seven fold veil esentialy take all fo their ranged spells down, and in ored to get in for a touch spell they have to pass htrough your veils and take a lot fo damage and possibly death
Dragonwriter 04-12-07, 01:59 AM	The ultimate anti-wizard class already exists in the core rulebooks, and you don't even have to do anything special to make it work perfectly: The Monk is almost designed to destroy arcane casters. The monk's AC Bonus means that his Armor Class, while not as high as a heavily-armored Fighter's, is high enough to protect him against most Wizard effects that require an attack role, such as ray attacks; in fact, the monk is BETTER at this than the heavily-armored fighter because ALL of his armor class bonus applies against Touch Attacks. The monk's primary style of Unarmed Strikes means that there is no armor and weapon for the wizard to deprive him of or use against him via Heat/Chill Metal or Rusting Grasp/Rust Ray The monk's increased movement speed means that he can close with a Wizard character much faster than most other combatants, effectively negating the wizard's most valuable tactic: stay in the back and fling spells. All of the movement-related skills (balance, climb, jump, and tumble) are class skills for a monk. This ties in nicely with staying in a wizard's face. Assuming he has enough ranks in them, a monk can tumble through/past the people that are between her and the wizard. A monk's increased movement speed gives hims HUGE modifiers to his jump checks (up to +24 at high levels, and that's not counting ranks in the skill, ability modifiers, or skill synergies). This means that, if the monk can't tumble through the obstacles between her and the wizard, it may be entirely possible to JUMP OVER THEM. Or, through a combination of climb, tumble, and jump, the monk may well be able to navigate through or around just about any physical obstacle that a wizard could place between them. A high-level monk gains Spell Resistance. I don't think I need to explain how useful this is against spellcasters. A monk has all good saves. Therefore, even if a Spellcaster manages to overcome the monk's Spell Resistance, he's likely to negate or lessen the effect significantly. Monk's get Evasion and Improved Evasion at an extremely low level. This, combined with his good reflex save, makes a good monk highly resistant to, and often allows him to completely avoid, nearly all of the "blow everything up" spells that scare a lot of other classes. Now the only spells that are guaranteed to affect him are those that ignore spell resistance and either don't allow saving throws or have a saving throw of "Fortitude Partial" or "Will Partial." Both of these are extremely rare entries in a spell description. A monk's Still Mind ability improves his resistance to mind-affecting spells, helping him resist enchantment spells in a similar way to the way his Evasion and Improved Evasion help him to resist Evocation spells. A monk's Wholeness of Body ability helps him last longer in case the player gets a few bad rolls and doesn't entirely dodge the first Fireball or two before he closes with the wizard. If none of the other methods of getting close to a wizard work, or if the wizard tries to teleport to another side of the battlefield, a high-level monk can (just once) follower her through use of her Abundant Step ability. Granted, it's only once, and if a wizard, say, teleports to the other side of the country then you're still kindof screwed, but it's surprisingly good if used right. Quivering Palm. What save does that use? Oh yeah, Fortitude. 'Nuff said. And, last but certainly not least, if nothing else is working, a truly prodigious-level monk can simply make herself ethereal via the Empty Body ability as needed to avoid spell effects. ... Yeah, I think I've made my point.
scienceman47 04-12-07, 02:58 AM	You forgot the bonus feats. Grappling, tripping, disarming that headband, AoOs, and a fort save stunning lockdown are all superb tactics against wizards once you get close. And monks get three feats for this, for free. Also, going first is a dealbreaker for wizards, and the monk happens to have the sneaking skills to leverage suprise rounds and the speed to win initiative. Nothings better for killing wizards than wizards, but if you can't be seen in public casting magic, than being a bald guy from a monastary is a good second.
farghal 04-12-07, 09:23 AM	You also have a shadowcaster from Tome of Magic which has some nice way's to counterspell spells as immidiate actions and you have the Noctumancer PrC from the same book who is specialized in negating others magic :)