Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ghost_warlock 05-15-06, 08:43 AM	The Ur-Priest from the Complete Divine is an alright class if you want a crash-course in divine magic at the expense of those who produce it (apparently the gods). However, the premise that one has to be evil in order to hate gods, be fed up with thier followers, or simply out to steal their power is flawed. Also, I see no reason why this class had to be a prestige class. So, here you go, a 20-level base class similar to the Ur-Priest! This class is essentially a variant form of the cleric, one that despises gods rather than serves them. However, all class abilities are printed below for ease in reference. Any ability or function present in the cleric core class but is not listed below is not a feature of the antitheist class. The Antitheist Like their fellows the Ur-Priests, antitheists despise the gods. Most see divine beings as ruthless powermongers, out to gain followers by any means neccessary while basking in the fear and awe they inspire as only a schoolyard bully can. To the antitheist, gods embody nothing so much as the phrase "might makes right" and, as such, antitheists are compelled to do something about it. Hence, antitheists are at war with the gods, drawing power from their ideology and faith, as well as stealing what they can in a method similar to that employed by the Ur-Priest. However, how they go about fighting this war varies widely from antitheist to antitheist. Some are little better than murderers, slaying clerics and faithful wherever they find them (and can get away with it). Others are more selective in the deities they actively oppose, seeking only to destroy the evil (or good) deities and those who worship them. Adventures: Ideally, an antitheist seeks to oppose other divine spellcasters and undermine religious organizations wherever they find them. Because religious faith is a fairly widespread phenomenon, most antitheists are forced to relocate frequently before drawing too much attention to themselves and facing mobs of angry villagers, inspired to "acts of evil by the divine lie" (as an antitheist might say). Running afoul of other monsters and organizations in the process, is practically a certainty and so many antitheists end up joining adventuring parties for protection and companionship, using their own powers to aid their companions in return. Whether these other adventurers know about or sympathize with an antitheist's cause varies with the piety of the group. Some antitheists find it useful to pose as members of "little known" or faiths in order to conceal their identities, while others openly declare their religious views to any who will hear them (or not). Characteristics: Somewhat paradoxically, antitheists use divine magic, which happens to be especially good at healing. Antitheists also train themselves in combat tactics, the better to oppose the faiths of the world and defend themselves against the inevitable counterattack. Alignment: Antitheists tend to be a passionate, driven lot, often seeing themselves as freedom-fighters. Some completely embrace a form of ideological zealotry they often oppose in divine beings. At the same time, however, their methods and their extremeism varies. Therefore, an antitheist may be of any alignment. Religion: Antitheists oppose religion and seek to slay the gods and those faithful to them. Background: Some antitheists come to thier "anti-faith" through philosophical paths, others experience some traumatizing event that leads them to their conclusions. Realizing the corruption within mostly good-aligned churches or witnessing the cruelty and savagery inflicted by the followers of evil deities can sometimes be all that it takes for someone to become an antitheist. Races: Humans are the most likely of the civilized races to take up the mantle of the antitheist, although any culture that embraces philosophy may produce individuals and anarchists who see the divine as oppressors. Thus, antitheists are extremely rare among the savage races. Other Classes: Antitheists tend to get along well with members of any class composed of strong-willed individualists and less so with those that tend to be ordered around. Obviously, antitheists and clerics/paladins despise each other. Antitheists are wary of druids and rangers, not always truly knowing if the source of these classes' power is truly granted by devotion to the natural world or a "gift" of a sinister deity. Role: An antitheist serves as a good replacement for a party's cleric, especially when confronting outsiders, enemy cleris, and other quasi-divine beings (such as a blackguard). However, an antitheist is much more martially-minded than some clerics and they are not quite as capable of healing their comrades since they do not have the ability to spontaneously cast cure spells. An antitheist is less helpful to a party that routinely encounters the undead, since they gain no power to turn or rebuke such creatures. Game Rule Information Antitheists have all the following game statistics. Abilities: Wisdom determines how powerful a spell an antitheist can cast, how many spells he can cast per day, and how hard those spells are to resist (see Spells, below). A character with a high Charisma will get the most mileage out of their Smite Faithful ability. The class gains proficiency in heavy armor so a high Strength score is useful in avoiding encumbrance penalties and for dealing extra damage in melee. Alignment: Any. Hit Die: d8. Starting Gold: 5d4 x 10 gp Class Skills: Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Intimidate, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (religion), Knowledge (the planes), Profession, Sense Motive, and Spellcraft. Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier (x4 at 1st level). Class Features Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Antitheists are proficient with all simple weapons and with one martial weapon of the player's choice. Antitheists are also proficient with all types of armor and with shields (except tower shields). Spells: An antitheist casts divine spells, which are drawn from the cleric spell list. An antitheist's alignment does not restrict him from casting any alignment-based spell (although casting such a spell is considered an act of that alignment; e.g., casting a summoning spell to summon an evil outsider is considered an evil act). To prepare or cast a spell, an antitheist must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level (Wis 10 for 0-level spells and so forth). The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against an antitheist's spell is 10 + the spell level + the antitheist's Wisdom modifier. Like other spellcasters, an antitheist can only cast a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table 1-2: Antitheist Spells per Day. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Wisdom score. Antitheists do not acquire their spells from books or scrolls, nor do they prepare them through study or pray for them. Instead, they simply take them or acquire them through their faith in their cause alone. An antitheist sets aside an hour per day to meditate on his cause and thus prepare which spells he will have available to cast that day. Time spent resting has no effect on whether an antitheist can prepare spells. An antitheist can prepare and cast any spell on the cleric spell list, provided that he can cast spells of that level, but he must prepare which spells during his daily meditation. Detect Divinity (Sp): At will, an antitheist can use a spell-like ability that detects the presence of creatures with divine spellcasting ability. This ability works like the detect evil spell except that it detects the auras of creatures with the ability to cast divine spells (whether or not they actually have any spells prepared or have available spell slots left for the day). An antitheist can be subject to the effects of detecting an overwhelming aura if the creature's HD are more than twice his character level. This ability does not detect items, only creatures and lingering auras. It does not distinguish between divine spellcasting gained from worshipping the gods from that gained by other means (such as devotion to nature or the spellcasting ability of an Ur-Priest). An antitheist's caster level when using this ability is equal to his antitheist level. Smite Faithful (Su): An antitheist despises the gods and their followers and, as such, learns to channel his rage into a powerful smite attack. Once per day, an antitheist can attempt to smite a creature with divine spellcasting ability. To use the smite, an antitheist adds his Charisma bonus (if any) to the attack roll and deals 1 extra point of damage per antitheist level. If the antitheist accidentally smites a creature without divine spellcasting ability, the smite has no effect, but the ability is still used up for that day. At 5th level and every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th), the antitheist can use this ability once more per day. Smite Faithful counts as a smite attack for the purposes of qualifying for feats and prestige classes. Bonus Feats: At 2nd, and again at 12th level, an antitheist gains a bonus feat. These feats need not be selected from any special list but the antitheist must meet all the prerequisites in order to take a particular feat. Divine Spell Resistance: At 9th level, an antitheist gains spell resistance equal to 10 + his antitheist level, but only against divine magic and the spell-like abilities of outsiders. Nullify Divinity (Su): At 17th level, an antitheist can project an aura around himself that prevents other divine spellcasters and creatures from utilizing their connection with the divine. This ability functions like an antimagic field except that it functions only against divine magic and the magic of outsiders. However, an antitheist's own spells and abilities continue to function while within the field. An antitheist can use this ability once per day at 17th level and three times per day at 20th level. The antitheist uses this ability as a caster of his class level. Bonus Languages: An antitheist's bonus language options include Celestial, Abyssal, and Infernal (the languages his hated foes - good, chaotic evil, lawful evil outsiders, respectively). These choices are in addition to the bonus languages available to the character because of his race. Code of Contact: An antitheist must always attempt a saving throw against a spell, spell-like ability, or supernatural ability cast or used by a divine spellcaster or outsider (even beneficial magic) unless that creature is also and antitheist or an Ur-Priest. An antitheist who does not attempt a saving throw suffers a "crisis of anti-faith" and loses his spellcasting ability for one day (he maintains full use of his other class abilities, however). There is no penalty if the antitheist attempts a saving throw and fails. Table 1-1: The Antitheist Base Attack Fort Ref Will Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Detect Divinity Smite Faithful 1/day 2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Bonus Feat 3rd +2 +3 +1 +3 4th +3 +4 +1 +4 5th +3 +4 +1 +4 Smite Faithful 2/day 6th +4 +5 +2 +5 7th +5 +5 +2 +5 8th +6/+1 +6 +2 +6 9th +6/+1 +6 +3 +6 Divine Spell Resistance 10th +7/+2 +7 +3 +7 Smite Faithful 3/day 11th +8/+3 +7 +3 +7 12th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Bonus Feat 13th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 14th +10/+5 +9 +4 +9 15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +9 Smite Faithful 4/day 16th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Nullify Divinity 1/day 18th +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Smite Faithful 5/day Nullify Divinity 3/day Tabl 1-2: Antitheist Spells per Day -------------------Spells per Day--------------- Level 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th 1st 3 1 - - - - - - - - 2nd 4 2 - - - - - - - - 3rd 4 2 1 - - - - - - - 4th 5 3 2 - - - - - - - 5th 5 3 2 1 - - - - - - 6th 5 3 3 2 - - - - - - 7th 6 4 3 2 1 - - - - - 8th 6 4 3 3 2 - - - - - 9th 6 4 4 3 3 1 - - - - 10th 6 4 4 3 3 2 - - - - 11th 6 5 4 4 3 2 1 - - - 12th 6 5 4 4 4 3 2 - - - 13th 6 5 5 4 4 3 2 1 - - 14th 6 5 5 4 4 3 3 2 - - 15th 6 5 5 5 4 4 3 2 1 - 16th 6 5 5 5 5 4 3 3 2 - 17th 6 5 5 5 5 4 4 3 2 1 18th 6 5 5 5 5 4 4 3 3 2 19th 6 5 5 5 5 5 4 4 3 3 20th 6 5 5 5 5 5 4 4 3 4 Truer words were never spoken (as far as an antitheist is concerned): "The Cleric is...boring, and logically inconsistent. The Cleric is just a stupid class..." -Haldrik
Epic Commoner 05-15-06, 09:32 AM	I think what people liked about the Ur-Priest is that it gives you 9th level spellcasting in only 10 levels, seperately but in addition to any previous spellcasting ability. Making it take 20 levels makes it less spectacular in that right.
ghost_warlock 05-15-06, 09:47 AM	The Ur-Priest relies pretty heavily upon bonus spells (if any) for its higher spell levels and has that annoying (to me) evil requirement. That's easy to house-rule, I know, but it's still frustrating. The entropomancer gets off on spheres of annihilation and is can be merely "nongood," while the Ur-priest casts only standard cleric spells and has to be evil. Why? Anyway, what I'm mostly wondering abut is does the Faith Slayer and other class abilities balance against the loss of turn/rebuke and clerical domains? Is something too powerful/weak?
jagggar 05-15-06, 02:54 PM	Faith Slayer bugs me. It's basicly if you're a divine caster who isn't an Antitheist or an Ur-Priest, you're a target. But the Antitheist hates gods and their followers, right? So why would they be dealing more damage to a cleric that doesn't worship a god? I'd suggest treating it just the same as the Ranger's Favored Enemy, except that the list the Antitheist draws from is Outsider (Chaotic, Evil, Good, or Lawful) and the list of avaliable gods in the campaign. When the Antitheist chooses a god, he gains the bonuses against all followers of that god.
Kresalak 05-15-06, 03:11 PM	Nullify Divinity needs clarification on it's caster level.
ghost_warlock 05-16-06, 09:47 AM	I've updated Nullify Divinity to include the caster level. Thanks! :) As for Faith Slayer, the ability is intended to combat a the earthly representatives of deities - those who are encountered most often on the prime material plane. Only being able to use their main class ability against outsiders would greatly reduce the power (and purpose of) the class. In my vision, the ability functions by subtly sensing the presence of divine power, which is why the description talks about spellcasting and auras, and also why the ability doesn't descriminate between casters with a deity and those who draw divine power from other sources - an antitheist CAN use Faith Slayer against other antitheists and Ur-Priests. The ability to use it against outsiders is just an side-effect that seemed to make an intuitive kind of sense - and an ability that seemed necessary if an antitheist rose to sufficient level to take the fight to other planes in order to fight the followers and deities in their homes (kind of like a lone paladin invading Hell - likely a suicidal quest but one that serves a symbolic purpose to the character). The way the ability functions probably needs more clarifying in the rules, though... With that said, I should probably make Faith Slayer a supernatural ability rather than Extraordinary and maybe create an at will class feature like detect divinity that functions like the paladin's detect evil ability but instead of sensing evil it senses the presence of divine power. Any thoughts? I thought about making Faith Slayer a smite attack but thought that the ability would be pretty weak in comparison and not really all that useful considering its limited uses per day. And I wanted to compensate the class more for the loss of Turn Undead and Clerical domains (two granted powers plus spell slots/spells known). Especially considering a character can get a smite attack from a domain granted power (Destruction & Orc; others are smite-like such as Death).
jagggar 05-16-06, 11:34 AM	As for Faith Slayer, the ability is intended to combat a the earthly representatives of deities - those who are encountered most often on the prime material plane. Only being able to use their main class ability against outsiders would greatly reduce the power (and purpose of) the class. No, I mean if you're playing with the core deities the list would look like: Antitheist's Faith Slayer selection Followers of Boccob Followers of Corellon Larethian Followers of Ehlonna Followers of Erythnul Followers of Fharlanghn Followers of Garl Glittergold Followers of Gruumsh Followers of Heironeous Followers of Hextor Followers of Kord Followers of Mordin Followers of Nerull Followers of Obad-Hai Followers of Olidammara Outsider (Chaotic) Outsider (Evil) Outsider (Good) Outsider (Lawful) Followers of Pelor Followers of St. Cuthbert Followers of Venca Followers of Wee Jas Followers of Yondalla I think making it more like that would fit better with the training themselves to fight followers of gods than just allowing a +10 damage to anything with divine spells. It seems on the powerful side as is (fairly large number of targets) and as I've pointed out before (what, at least twice now?) makes no distinction between followers of gods and other divine casters when the flavor text really does seem to imply the distniction. - an antitheist CAN use Faith Slayer against other antitheists and Ur-Priests. Ah, misread that. maybe create an at will class feature like detect divinity that functions like the paladin's detect evil ability but instead of sensing evil it senses the presence of divine power. Any thoughts? Interesting idea. Aura strength based on the caster level of the divine caster I guess? What about detecting divine magic items? That might give away anyone carrying a potion of cure light wounds. I thought about making Faith Slayer a smite attack but thought that the ability would be pretty weak in comparison and not really all that useful considering its limited uses per day. And I wanted to compensate the class more for the loss of Turn Undead and Clerical domains (two granted powers plus spell slots/spells known). Especially considering a character can get a smite attack from a domain granted power (Destruction & Orc; others are smite-like such as Death).Well, the granted powers are usually about the strength of a feat and the smites granted by domains are only once per day. I think I'd prefer a smite to the way you have Faith Slayer now.
ghost_warlock 05-16-06, 12:40 PM	Hmmm... I'm not so found of limiting Faith Slayer to individual churches, since I don't see most antitheists thinking this way. Also, the list would get outstandingly unwieldy if one was ever created, and I want the ability to be a little more useful and general than that. Depending on the campaign, unless a player and DM worked it out ahead of time, a character may never even encounter an opponent who he's marked as a Faith Slayer target (unless he chose evil outsider in a normal campaign). Still, I agree that being able to deal +10 damage at will to anything with divine spellcasting ability is a bit much. Sorry for making you point it out twice, but I'll admit to being a little dense and oblivious from time to time... ("Ya think?") :P The smite idea is starting to sound a lot better at 1/day per 5 levels (paladin progression - max 5 @ 20th w/o "extra smite" feats and the like). It's better than the 1/day thing a cleric can get from a domain but not as good as at will. A detect divinity power would help the class avoid wasting smites. As far as the problem with magic items, I don't think items give off an aura that indicates whether they are arcane or divine in nature, just how powerful the magic is and the associated spell school. But, I could always make it so that it targets creatures with divine spell slots.
ghost_warlock 05-16-06, 01:15 PM	Okay, I've added detect divinity and changed Faith Slayer to a smite (now called, Smite Faithful, however original that is! :P ) Any suggestions for dealing with the bonus feats? Should I leave them, ex them, or replace them?
ghost_warlock 05-17-06, 08:25 PM	Hoping to expand the audience with a :bump:
Verelor 05-17-06, 08:30 PM	There is no way this class can be good aligned. And don;t you think it's just really too specialized to be a base class?
FriendlyBiscuit 05-18-06, 02:11 AM	I really, really like Smite Faithful. I think I may replace the Ur-Priest's turn undead with Smite Faithful instead. Aligment: An antitheist can not be lawful but can otherwise be of any alignment other than true neutral.How about: an antitheist can be of any alignment; people can hate gods for numerous reasons. However, they tend towards neutrality, because they often see alignment as a tool that the gods use to manipulate their followers into obedience and holy wars. What do you think about my idea (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9185779&postcount=78) to make it into a 14-level class, available at 3rd level? It's against common protocol, but, well... my reasoning for it is in that thread.
ghost_warlock 05-18-06, 08:04 AM	I originally had the class available to characters of any alignment. But I got to thinking that the class is composed of extremists and really has an anarchist ideology - kind of incompatible with a true neutral or lawful alignment. But, hey, I've no problem opening the class to characters of any alignment if it could be RP'ed. Can someone play a true neutral zealot? And could a player RP an antitheist as lawful? Maybe if taking the "discipline" aspect of the alignment, but I still see it as a little odd. :) People teach their kids all kinds of things (trust me on that one - I deal with it on a daily basis at work), a hatred of the gods could certainly be a "family thing." And I still haven't heard any reasoning behind the statement that the class can't be good-aligned. If it's the "hate" component, one could make the same call about a paladin not being able to be good. I've certainly read enough stuff about a paladin's "hatred" of evil over the years. Or, hey, read the description of the Shadowbane Inquisitor or Infiltrator from Complete Adventurer - how these guys manage to be "good" is a complete mystery to me! The antitheist views religion as oppression and believes that people should be able to live their lives without fear of divine involvment or retribution. To the antitheist, mortals should not pawns to be played with in the gods' eternal game of chess. "Leave us alone, Mel Brooks!" As for the PrC suggestion, I'm actually much more in favor of the "variant class" idea. Besides, a 14-level class would really mess with spell and smite progression! ;) And, once again, we'd be getting into the 6th-level "qualifying," sacred cow issue. Using the variant class route, the character essentially gives up turn/rebuke and domain powers, spells, and spell slots in exchange for smite faithful, some bonus feats, and the anti-divine SR/nullify divinity features (both of which are more PrC-like, I'll admit - but the antitheist wouldn't be the only base class that pick up SR). But I was looking for something to give the class a unique feel.
FriendlyBiscuit 05-18-06, 12:13 PM	NM, don't know how I messed that up... And for the record, I don't force Ur-Priests to be evil, either, though the player has to have some serious justification/explaining to be Good.
Jaeron Dalur 05-18-06, 08:14 PM	First off I just want to say that I really like this class. Good job. The one thing I have an issue with (a very small one) is the name. "Anti-Theist" seems, to me, to much more clearly mean "against those who worship the gods" than "against the gods". Though I really have no clue what could be used insted. It's a small issue and doesn't detract from the class so one would notice. It just seemed odd.
Verelor 05-18-06, 08:28 PM	Paladins and other good characters hate evil because it is the scourge of the universe, never evil characters. :) Let's just be frank, an antithiest wants a holocaust of the deities. Good or evil, it does not matter to him or her. The antitheist wants them dead. If his or her idea of "oppression" is a temple to Sune or Pelor, well, ok then...
FatMonkey13 05-18-06, 09:41 PM	It does not seem too powerful or weak to me. I would allow it and I think that it should allow any alignment. I just question why the class would be effective on Druids (and some non core classes) but have nothing to stop a monk who followed a specific god? Also what about cults that worship things like Beholders, Aboleths, and Illithids? The followers obviosly have a lot of faith... How about a know religion spell that tells what gods a person venerates (similar to know alignment) Evil (any type) may just me hateful and spiteful. A evil alignment could represent a person who feels that the gods have cheated them and wants revenge or that if they have not had a connection with god then no one else should either. Neutral may believe that gods are too powerful and that they should keep to them selves and not mess with mortals. A neutral alignment may represent a person who venerates nature over gods and wishes to take back the divine power that the gods ‘stole’. Good may dislike the way that churches are run, corruption is not good, and going are killing evil creatures may be no better then killing good in their eyes. A good alignment could represent a person trying to make people not just blind followers of people who claim to have the right message. Chaotic may see gods as imposing too much on them. A chaotic alignment could represent freedom from the impositions of giant institutions (churches). Lawful may have found that gods don’t make sense (they don’t seem to follow the laws that every one else does). A lawful alignment could represent Science/Philosophy vs. Religion. I think that it is best to keep alignment open unless you can’t get the class to work mechanically with out alignment restriction (Such as it would be hard to get a neutral Paladin to make sense with out reworking the class but a Chaotic monk could represent a ascetic hermit that does not believe in society with just a few changes). An alternative is that the play would have to maintain their alignment (one or both aspects) after gaining the 1st level of the class but the dislike of clerics would make getting Atonement more difficult if alignment shifted. Say a Good lay person discovers that their ‘good’ church is spending all of the donations (and/or taxes) on funding a war in another region against followers of a different god while the peasants still suffer at home, he decides to take on the church at becomes a Antitheist and fights the church intercepting the funds and after laundering the money contributes to works that help the people in the town, but he starts to enjoy fighting and starts killing the clerics and becomes evil does it make sense for him to lose his abilities or not? So you may wish to keep alignment open
ghost_warlock 05-19-06, 11:12 AM	I think FatMonkey13 did a great job of explaining the alignment factor. To expand upon it, though, in my view the antitheist chooses how to use his/her power. They can go on a rampage, killing all the clerics they find. Or, they may restrain themselves and battle just evil clerics. Their spell list does include detect evil and there's nothing in the class restricting them from casting alignment-based spells to root out the truly corrupt. Furthermore, An antitheist can hate the good clerics just as much as the evil ones but decide that those of good alignment do just enough good in the world to warrant their presence. Just because you hate something doesn't mean that you can't (grudgingly) still find value in it. As for Jaeron Dalur's comment about the name, well, I can't think of a better one, either. I'm coming up all "deicide" and "deicider" just sounds dumb. Besides, for all practical purposes your standard antitheist will lead a (short) career in which he'll likely never gain the power to oppose the gods themselves. Likely, he'll spend his whole life fighting merely their followers. Few D&D games have the scope and longevity to build characters powerful enough to take on even one god toe-to-toe, let alone a whole pantheon. "Antitheist" can mean a number of things but for the sake of this class, it can primarily mean "one who opposes religion." To muddy the water, an antitheist is, by definition of this class, both an antiteist AND a theist - one meaning of "theist" is "one who believes in gods." :) As for oppression by traditionally good-aligned deiteis, this class would work very well in a setting like Eberron where clerics of a deity can be of any alignment and corruption in the church is rampant. An evil cleric pressing his own agenda in that system never loses spells or ability to turn undead no matter how vile he personally becomes. The Church of the Silver Flame is a good example of a church from that world that an antitheist could target - and could probably spend his entire career just rooting out evil priests from a supposedly good religion. The Shackled City Adventure Path also features evil priests from the church of a Lawful Neutral deity that are acting somewhat outside their deity's wishes but still manage just enough faith (or whatnot) to maintain their spells and powers. An antitheist would work well in that campaign as well, especially when the PCs start taking the fight to these corrupt clerics. A character of any other class could, once faced with this corruption, multiclass into antitheist or do a re-build (as described in the Player's Handbook II) to pick up antitheist powers if prevented from doing so otherwise (the character was originally a cleric; this class is effectively a variant cleric and you can't multiclass as two types of cleric). Nothing in the rules of the class prevents a character from choosing a specific deity or church that they hate - the class generalizes to all religions but it could also work with a specific hated church (granted that the character is likely to actually encounter members of that church). The best way I could logically get the Smite Faithful power to work was basing it off a solid connection to the divine - the ability to cast spells and whatnot. The connection to a divine power source allows an antitheist to deal extra damage to those who use divine magic. However, there's not really a game mechanic that would determine which deity a character worships - the presence of certain domains wouldn't necessarily do it because deities don't regularly have a stranglehold or monopoly on the domains they offer, especially when the alignment-based domains are concerned. The presence of domains at all would be a good indicator of a divine-empowered character, though. So, to keep things simple, the Smite Faithful ability functions soley off a connection to a divine power source, whether that power source comes from the gods or not. I figured that a connection to the divine would be a mechanically superior route to something like character class (especially with all the prestige classes out there). In this system a character doesn't gain any special ability to smite monks (except the sacred fist) or other non-spellcasting followers. But, at the same time, those types of characters are not as great a threat in the antitheist's eyes because they typically do not put as much faith in the deities as those granted spellcasting ability. A cleric or paladin will always be more pious and interconnected with the gods than another character class that merely worships a god and doesn't draw power from them. One issue with that, though, that I just thought of is whether an antitheist's Nullify Divinity power would sever or damage that divine connection enough so that Smite Faithful wouldn't work... I could really go either way. I guess the simplest way would be to say that Nullify Divinity doesn't sever the connection to the divine so much as it prevents a character from using it to cast spells or use other abilities. As for Verelor's comment: Paladins and other good characters hate evil because it is the scourge of the universe, never evil characters. I'm not quite sure what you mean. Are you trying to say that paladins never hate evil characters? But, yes, some antitheists what a holocaust of the deities. Some would just like the deities and their ilk to leave mortals alone, and others seek to destroy just the evil deities and their followers. That's why the class is open to all alignments - any of these could be true. BTW - there is a true neutral paladin variant published in Dragon issue #310. They're called Incarnate and they seek to maintain balance at all costs. "The incarnate is unique among the divine champions in that she does not serve a patron deity. Rather, she focuses her faith and belief in the philosophy of Balance, that the best of all possible worlds is both good and evil, both lawful and chaotic, all in equal balance. She receives her divine spells and abilities through her unwavering devotion to Balance. When one force becomes too powerful in a region, she fights to restore the balance, either by allying with the opposing force or fighting on her own. An overly lawful society that oppresses its populace is just as wrong in the incarnate's eyes as a society that collapses into anarchy and barbarism. Likewise, a creature that indiscriminately trusts everything with kindness and understanding is just as offensive as one that kills and slaughters without remorse." It's a good article, you should check it out. It details a paladin variant for each of the alignments (other than LG, which is represented by the core paladin, and the evil alignments, which follow in issue #312).
jagggar 05-19-06, 01:46 PM	Perhaps "Maltheist"? I'm not sure of the actual definition, but I've heard it used in a context before that would fit the class.