Any Decent Sashbuckler Builds? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Any Decent Sashbuckler Builds? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ruhl-Than Sage
12-24-05, 03:10 PM I was looking at the Swashbukler class from CW recently because it had occured to me that they might make good a combo with wizard. The fact that they both benefit from a high dexterity and intelligence seemed to make for a good combo at 1st, but upon further inspection I realized that they didn't work well with either of the Warrior/Caster PrCs in that book.

Although they have two more of the skills needed to get into the Bladesinger PrC (then Fighter or Wizard), they lose out on all the fighter bonus feats so necessary to qualify. I figured out that you could qualify for it a bit belatedly and warrior heavy with a Swashbukler 3, Fighter 2, Wizard 1 build. OK, but not so great and I'm not too keen on playing an elf anyway.

As for the Spellsword, that ends up being kind of pointless, as the point of being a spellsword is wearing heavier armor and a large weapon while still being able to cast spells.

So, I like the idea of the swashbuckler but am having trouble coming up with a decent build. Does anyone know of any decent Swashbuckler builds, that involve levels in Rouge or Wizard? Or of any PrCs that are particularly good fits for the class?
FabulousRex
12-24-05, 03:33 PM Well, the thing with the Bladesinger is that it's a Warrior with some backup Spellcasting. In no way should you try and focus too much on the Wizard aspect. That said, it can make a very good defensive fighter and backup spellcaster. The best thing about the Bladesinger is getting an extra attack via Song of Fury, and wearing light armor while still getting INT to AC. Try this for starters:

Elf: Stat importance order: Dex, Int, Con, Str, Wis, Cha
Swashbuckler3/Wizard4/Bladesinger10/Eldritch Knight3

1-Swashbuckler1-Dodge, Mobility (take -1 AC flaw)
2-Swashbuckler2
3-Wizard1-Combat Casting
4-Wizard2
5-Swashbuckler3-(INT to Damage)
6-Wizard3-W.Focus Rapier
7-Wizard4
8-Bladesinger1
9-Bladesinger2-Arcane Strike

Finish up with Elusive Target, Practiced Spellcaster, and Improved Toughness. These feats are up to you to change though, some like Improved Familiar or campaign/flavor-specific feats, and Quicken Spell is always good for a Gish-light. You get casting as an 11th level Wizard, at CL 15, so 6th level spells alongside BAB+18. Since you'll need to pump your INT sky-high, you might do well with some backup damage spells so long as they don't allow SR. The 'Orb' spells from C.Arcane work pretty well as back up damage dealers at range. Take the Elf Wizard racial sub levels if possible, they're pretty good. Stick to self-buff spells and action-enhancers. It's also very worth your while to simply fill out your entire 2nd level with Wraithstrikes.
Lotus Crane
12-24-05, 03:38 PM If you really want a multi-class Swashbuckler with spells, rogue 1/swashbuckler 3/rogue 1 into Assassin is pretty easy, and even swashbuckler 3/archivist X is viable (compared to most other multi-class gish builds that don't use PrCs).
FabulousRex
12-24-05, 03:45 PM Another good use for the Swashbuckler is the Duelist PrC from the DMG. The class is a little wonky, but still quite good if you like being a mobile defensive-type fighter. I like the Feat Rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogue) alongside the Swashbuckler as a lead-in. Plenty of feats never hurt anyone (except the monsters!).

Elf:
Swashbuckler3/Feat Rogue4/Duelist10/Champion of Corellion2/Exotic Weapon Master1

1-F.Rogue1-Dodge, Mobility
2-Swashbuckler1-(B)W.Finesse
3-F.Rogue2-Exotic Weapon Prof (Elven Thinblade)
4-Swashbuckler2
5-F.Rogue3
6-Swashbuckler3-(INT to Damage), W.Focus Thinblade
7-F.Rogue4-Mounted Combat
8-Duelist1
9-Duelist2-Combat Expertise
10-Champion of Corellion1
11-Champion of Corellion2-(DEX to Damage)
12-Exotic Weapon Master1-(Exotic Trip), Improved Trip
13-Duelist3
14-Duelist4
15-Duelist5-Elusive Target
16-Duelist6
17-Duelist7
18-Duelist8-Improved Toughness
19-Duelist9
20-Duelist10

The combination of Improved Trip, Exotic Trip, and Elusive Target is pretty powerful for a mobility-based fighter. You'll be getting +8AC against AoO's, and when they miss you can trip them, so don't even bother tumbling unless it's a very big opponent. You're also packing +2d6 damage and DEX+INT to damage. Pump both of those stats, and you get extra AC, Damage, to-hit, everything. Since you're not wearing armor, it's essential to have Rogue4, for Uncanny Dodge. This won't prevent alot of other cases of being flat-footed, but it's a damn good start.
Jherid
12-24-05, 03:58 PM The swashbuckler class would fit semi-well with an int heavy rogue. People also tend to use it as a source of bonus damage in TWF builds. Something that could be fun:

Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 2/Invisible Blade 5/Dervish 10

Int to damage and up to 5 AC. It'd be a guy who jumps around the battlefield slashing people with daggers and getting a free sneak attack feint from Invisible Blade. Granted this would've been a lot better before Invisible Blade's errata, but it's still managable.

I looked around the CO boards but couldn't find any swashbuckler guides or straight 20 builds for you, guess it's not too surprising since most people tend to just use it as a dip or short prefix.
Ruhl-Than Sage
12-24-05, 04:21 PM Thanks guys this is all very helpfull. :D
Sparrowhawk Charm
12-24-05, 07:52 PM The swashbuckler class would fit semi-well with an int heavy rogue. People also tend to use it as a source of bonus damage in TWF builds. Something that could be fun:

Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 2/Invisible Blade 5/Dervish 10

Int to damage and up to 5 AC. It'd be a guy who jumps around the battlefield slashing people with daggers and getting a free sneak attack feint from Invisible Blade. Granted this would've been a lot better before Invisible Blade's errata, but it's still managable.

I looked around the CO boards but couldn't find any swashbuckler guides or straight 20 builds for you, guess it's not too surprising since most people tend to just use it as a dip or short prefix.

What was the errata for the invisible blade?
Where might I find such that?
Thanks

Shadowhawk
Jherid
12-24-05, 09:35 PM This page (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a) contains all WotC errata.

Specifically for the invisible blade they limited his final ability, being able to feint as a free action, to a swift action, so that it can only be done once per round.
Rulebook
12-25-05, 10:19 AM ignore the bladesinger entirely. just go Swash/Wiz/spellsword/Eldritch Knight

you dont need much spellsword (if any at all) because you dont need much armor anyway, and if you can finesse some ebberon in, the Phantom Knight is a nice power upgrade to the EK, and you can use courtblades nicely with that.
Ruhl-Than Sage
12-25-05, 02:55 PM ignore the bladesinger entirely. just go Swash/Wiz/spellsword/Eldritch Knight

you dont need much spellsword (if any at all) because you dont need much armor anyway, and if you can finesse some ebberon in, the Phantom Knight is a nice power upgrade to the EK, and you can use courtblades nicely with that.

Yah, Eldaritch Knight isn't what I'm looking for really. Too few hit points and it's primarily a caster, I'm more interested in a primary warrior, secondary caster. Besides the specail abilities on the bladesinger really appeal to me despite the extreme difficulty of getting into the dam n class.
Sparrowhawk Charm
12-27-05, 01:27 AM This page (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a) contains all WotC errata.

Specifically for the invisible blade they limited his final ability, being able to feint as a free action, to a swift action, so that it can only be done once per round.

I read that. thank you.
I was hoping that there would be some errata concerning the prerequisite feats. Other threads have commented on how the pointblank shot and far shot don't readily apply to a kukri or punching dagger and that weapon finesse would be a more logical prereq. Just wondering if anyone higher up the food chain has thought the same.

Thanks again.

Sparrowhawk

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ruhl-Than Sage 12-24-05, 03:10 PM	I was looking at the Swashbukler class from CW recently because it had occured to me that they might make good a combo with wizard. The fact that they both benefit from a high dexterity and intelligence seemed to make for a good combo at 1st, but upon further inspection I realized that they didn't work well with either of the Warrior/Caster PrCs in that book. Although they have two more of the skills needed to get into the Bladesinger PrC (then Fighter or Wizard), they lose out on all the fighter bonus feats so necessary to qualify. I figured out that you could qualify for it a bit belatedly and warrior heavy with a Swashbukler 3, Fighter 2, Wizard 1 build. OK, but not so great and I'm not too keen on playing an elf anyway. As for the Spellsword, that ends up being kind of pointless, as the point of being a spellsword is wearing heavier armor and a large weapon while still being able to cast spells. So, I like the idea of the swashbuckler but am having trouble coming up with a decent build. Does anyone know of any decent Swashbuckler builds, that involve levels in Rouge or Wizard? Or of any PrCs that are particularly good fits for the class?
FabulousRex 12-24-05, 03:33 PM	Well, the thing with the Bladesinger is that it's a Warrior with some backup Spellcasting. In no way should you try and focus too much on the Wizard aspect. That said, it can make a very good defensive fighter and backup spellcaster. The best thing about the Bladesinger is getting an extra attack via Song of Fury, and wearing light armor while still getting INT to AC. Try this for starters: Elf: Stat importance order: Dex, Int, Con, Str, Wis, Cha Swashbuckler3/Wizard4/Bladesinger10/Eldritch Knight3 1-Swashbuckler1-Dodge, Mobility (take -1 AC flaw) 2-Swashbuckler2 3-Wizard1-Combat Casting 4-Wizard2 5-Swashbuckler3-(INT to Damage) 6-Wizard3-W.Focus Rapier 7-Wizard4 8-Bladesinger1 9-Bladesinger2-Arcane Strike Finish up with Elusive Target, Practiced Spellcaster, and Improved Toughness. These feats are up to you to change though, some like Improved Familiar or campaign/flavor-specific feats, and Quicken Spell is always good for a Gish-light. You get casting as an 11th level Wizard, at CL 15, so 6th level spells alongside BAB+18. Since you'll need to pump your INT sky-high, you might do well with some backup damage spells so long as they don't allow SR. The 'Orb' spells from C.Arcane work pretty well as back up damage dealers at range. Take the Elf Wizard racial sub levels if possible, they're pretty good. Stick to self-buff spells and action-enhancers. It's also very worth your while to simply fill out your entire 2nd level with Wraithstrikes.
Lotus Crane 12-24-05, 03:38 PM	If you really want a multi-class Swashbuckler with spells, rogue 1/swashbuckler 3/rogue 1 into Assassin is pretty easy, and even swashbuckler 3/archivist X is viable (compared to most other multi-class gish builds that don't use PrCs).
FabulousRex 12-24-05, 03:45 PM	Another good use for the Swashbuckler is the Duelist PrC from the DMG. The class is a little wonky, but still quite good if you like being a mobile defensive-type fighter. I like the Feat Rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogue) alongside the Swashbuckler as a lead-in. Plenty of feats never hurt anyone (except the monsters!). Elf: Swashbuckler3/Feat Rogue4/Duelist10/Champion of Corellion2/Exotic Weapon Master1 1-F.Rogue1-Dodge, Mobility 2-Swashbuckler1-(B)W.Finesse 3-F.Rogue2-Exotic Weapon Prof (Elven Thinblade) 4-Swashbuckler2 5-F.Rogue3 6-Swashbuckler3-(INT to Damage), W.Focus Thinblade 7-F.Rogue4-Mounted Combat 8-Duelist1 9-Duelist2-Combat Expertise 10-Champion of Corellion1 11-Champion of Corellion2-(DEX to Damage) 12-Exotic Weapon Master1-(Exotic Trip), Improved Trip 13-Duelist3 14-Duelist4 15-Duelist5-Elusive Target 16-Duelist6 17-Duelist7 18-Duelist8-Improved Toughness 19-Duelist9 20-Duelist10 The combination of Improved Trip, Exotic Trip, and Elusive Target is pretty powerful for a mobility-based fighter. You'll be getting +8AC against AoO's, and when they miss you can trip them, so don't even bother tumbling unless it's a very big opponent. You're also packing +2d6 damage and DEX+INT to damage. Pump both of those stats, and you get extra AC, Damage, to-hit, everything. Since you're not wearing armor, it's essential to have Rogue4, for Uncanny Dodge. This won't prevent alot of other cases of being flat-footed, but it's a damn good start.
Jherid 12-24-05, 03:58 PM	The swashbuckler class would fit semi-well with an int heavy rogue. People also tend to use it as a source of bonus damage in TWF builds. Something that could be fun: Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 2/Invisible Blade 5/Dervish 10 Int to damage and up to 5 AC. It'd be a guy who jumps around the battlefield slashing people with daggers and getting a free sneak attack feint from Invisible Blade. Granted this would've been a lot better before Invisible Blade's errata, but it's still managable. I looked around the CO boards but couldn't find any swashbuckler guides or straight 20 builds for you, guess it's not too surprising since most people tend to just use it as a dip or short prefix.
Ruhl-Than Sage 12-24-05, 04:21 PM	Thanks guys this is all very helpfull. :D
Sparrowhawk Charm 12-24-05, 07:52 PM	The swashbuckler class would fit semi-well with an int heavy rogue. People also tend to use it as a source of bonus damage in TWF builds. Something that could be fun: Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 2/Invisible Blade 5/Dervish 10 Int to damage and up to 5 AC. It'd be a guy who jumps around the battlefield slashing people with daggers and getting a free sneak attack feint from Invisible Blade. Granted this would've been a lot better before Invisible Blade's errata, but it's still managable. I looked around the CO boards but couldn't find any swashbuckler guides or straight 20 builds for you, guess it's not too surprising since most people tend to just use it as a dip or short prefix. What was the errata for the invisible blade? Where might I find such that? Thanks Shadowhawk
Jherid 12-24-05, 09:35 PM	This page (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a) contains all WotC errata. Specifically for the invisible blade they limited his final ability, being able to feint as a free action, to a swift action, so that it can only be done once per round.
Rulebook 12-25-05, 10:19 AM	ignore the bladesinger entirely. just go Swash/Wiz/spellsword/Eldritch Knight you dont need much spellsword (if any at all) because you dont need much armor anyway, and if you can finesse some ebberon in, the Phantom Knight is a nice power upgrade to the EK, and you can use courtblades nicely with that.
Ruhl-Than Sage 12-25-05, 02:55 PM	ignore the bladesinger entirely. just go Swash/Wiz/spellsword/Eldritch Knight you dont need much spellsword (if any at all) because you dont need much armor anyway, and if you can finesse some ebberon in, the Phantom Knight is a nice power upgrade to the EK, and you can use courtblades nicely with that. Yah, Eldaritch Knight isn't what I'm looking for really. Too few hit points and it's primarily a caster, I'm more interested in a primary warrior, secondary caster. Besides the specail abilities on the bladesinger really appeal to me despite the extreme difficulty of getting into the dam n class.
Sparrowhawk Charm 12-27-05, 01:27 AM	This page (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a) contains all WotC errata. Specifically for the invisible blade they limited his final ability, being able to feint as a free action, to a swift action, so that it can only be done once per round. I read that. thank you. I was hoping that there would be some errata concerning the prerequisite feats. Other threads have commented on how the pointblank shot and far shot don't readily apply to a kukri or punching dagger and that weapon finesse would be a more logical prereq. Just wondering if anyone higher up the food chain has thought the same. Thanks again. Sparrowhawk