Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Efim 11-09-06, 10:29 AM	Hey... i am currently playing a pure Beguiler of the 13th lvl.. and although its a nice character it seems to become strongly underpowered compared to the rest of my group.... my character specializes more in enchantements than illusions- and i fear that soon all the strong monsters will have ME which will render my character useless... do you have any ideas for a PrC to empower my char... or any other solutions to the ME problem thanks for the help
Qatharsis 11-09-06, 10:46 AM	At the danger of sounding stupid, what's ME? Also, do spells like Haste, Greater Invisibility or (Greater) Dispel ever lose their usefulness?
The_Shaman 11-09-06, 10:51 AM	ME? I think few PrC will give you more than the straight beguiler, to be honest. Eldritch Knight and Arcane Strike will give you a good bit of damage that is hard to resist, and you shouldn't worry about ASF if you have light armor and a mithral buckler (buckler because you don't need to hold it, hence the hand is free to cast with it). Invest in Shadow evocation/conjuration spells (Shades does not lose its usefulness, ever) through advanced learning, and you could possibly push towards Shadow mage (or whatever the gnome PrC in RoS was called). If you're not gnome, ask the DM to allow it as under the adaptation column, or ask for the similar version in Underdark. Both work best with Shadow spells, by the way - but those should be your breath and butter anyway. We are talking about spells that supplant entire schools. Out of curiosity, I think you may push for the feat that allows you to add one domain of divine spells to your list (Arcane Disciple in the Complete Divine). You can do it several times, and as you can cast any spell that appears on your spell list, it should be very nice - if the DM allows it, of course. The Rainbow servant is a PrC that grants you 3 domains, and at the end caps with access to all cleric spells. If you can take it and get away with it, that'd mean... you cast every divine spell... ever... :eek: :eek: :eek: Oh my god, what have I done! Aargh! ((Casts Magic Missile at the uberness. Uberness gets AoO. One less Shaman. If you find his remains, please cremate him and use his holy symbol for good only. Do not give to Cael.)) For sheer insanity, use the AD feat to get a few of the choicier domains: spell (Faerun setting, can you say Anyspell), repose (most of the necromancy you'll need) or magic (dispelling in all forms and flavors). I vote for the Spell domain - then just get the spell compendium and learn it by heart. The mystic theurges have nothing on you.
dokesa 11-09-06, 10:59 AM	Out of curiosity, I think you may push for the feat that allows you to add one domain of divine spells to your list (Arcane Disciple in the Complete Divine). You can do it several times, and as you can cast any spell that appears on your spell list, it should be very nice - if the DM allows it, of course. The Rainbow servant is a PrC that grants you 3 domains, and at the end caps with access to all cleric spells. If you can take it and get away with it, that'd mean... you cast every divine spell... ever... :eek: :eek: :eek: Wow! I have to go look up the wording for that.
Osedox 11-09-06, 10:59 AM	Unseen Seer from the Complete Mage is pretty cool, in that it gives you Sneak Attack and Full Casting, but it nerfs your Cl for non Divination spells, so it might be a bust. I have heard of some pretty wicked stuff involving a PrC called Shadowcraft Mage, but i have never seen the class, nor do I even know which book its from. Too bad the assassin has its own spellcasting, or it would be a good one.
Cainin 11-09-06, 11:08 AM	I've always thought it would be good take take Dragontouched and Draconic Heritage (from Dragom Magic). Then dip a couple of lvls in Dragonheart Mage (Racess of the Dragon). Costs 2 feats and loses one caster lvl, but gains 2 bonus feats (Draconic Breath & 1 draconic feat of choice). It would give you a breath weapon (su) that would be useful to anything that your spells couldn't deal with.
ninjarabbit 11-09-06, 11:15 AM	A level of mindbender gives you telepathy and qualifies you for the mindsight feat (Lords of Madness) I like arcane discipline for beguilers if you have a wis of 13 and a wis boosting item.
Efim 11-09-06, 11:37 AM	thatnks for the advices.. but let me clerify about my character... first of all ME - means mind effect- what i ment is that creatures will soon have mind immunity which will ruin my plan.... as for emphasis on shadow magic i though about it .. but it aint that fun.. isnt there a way to bypass the mind immunity and use enchantments?.... although i love the feat which allows to take cleric domain i stand at a meager 8 Wis so it falls out.... the books which ourDM allows us to use are as follows Complete mage/warrior/arcane/adventurer/divine/PH1-PH2/Races of -destiny/wild/stone- spell compenduim/ magic of faerun/ players guide of faerun/ champions of valor... so this is all i have to choose from... any other advices will be greatly welcomed
NineInchNall 11-09-06, 11:56 AM	The answer is simple: Shadowcraft Mage. You can qualify for it just by picking up Spell Focus (illusion). There's a link to the Shadowcraft Mage Handbook in my signature.
Harliquinn 11-09-06, 12:16 PM	The answer is simple: Shadowcraft Mage. You can qualify for it just by picking up Spell Focus (illusion). There's a link to the Shadowcraft Mage Handbook in my signature. To qualify for it at 9th level (the earliest a beguiler can get into it I believe), you will also need to take another class or PrC that increases your spellcasting before you take your 7th level of Beguiler. The reason is you need a 4th level Shadow spell to qualify for Shadowcraft Mage, and the only 2 I am aware of are Shadow Conjuraton and Shadow Well. A Beguiler doesn't get 4th level spells until 8th level and the Extended Learning ability comes at 7th level. MIndbender as mentioned is a very solid choice for that 1 level dip.
Manyfist 11-09-06, 01:47 PM	Chameleon if you're Human/Changeling, it offers very good stuff for Beguiler, Like sneak attack, etc. Also you can cast Divine Magic, as well as add to your limited spell by getting a Spellbook.
Efim 11-09-06, 02:41 PM	The answer is simple: Shadowcraft Mage. You can qualify for it just by picking up Spell Focus (illusion). There's a link to the Shadowcraft Mage Handbook in my signature. take under concideretion that a beguiler doesnt use all the benefits of the shadowcraft.. since he doesnt have the 2 highest imagis which he can turn into shadow spells... so all he is left with is the concealment +the increased shadow evocation/conjuration at lvl 5... is it worth it? as for the mindbender.. how is the telepathy helps in combat modes- i see it as another RP ability which is kinda cool but a beguiler doesnt lack in RP options and skills as for the feat which allows to take cleric domain- if i am not mistaken the dc for these spell is based on Wis so a low wis means that most spells become useless...unless i am mistaken.,,
Puca 11-09-06, 02:58 PM	Telepathy is nifty if you use a lot of spells that are language dependant, like Suggestion. It is awesome when combined with Mindsight, which was the initial suggestion on that I think. Arcane Disciple is based on Wisdom, both the DCs and the ability to cast as I recall. I also believe that you are able to cast them only once per day, even for spontaneous casters. (Not sure on that, or how it interacts with Beguilers.)
Efim 11-09-06, 03:00 PM	Telepathy is nifty if you use a lot of spells that are language dependant, like Suggestion. It is awesome when combined with Mindsight, which was the initial suggestion on that I think. i am sorry for my ignorance - but again how does mindsight help in battle? again its an awsome awsome RP feat.. and not that i am a power gamer but i am trying to find ways to make my Beguiler become a bit more than a support character
Puca 11-09-06, 03:07 PM	In addition to the aforementioned Suggestion, knowing the location of every mind within 100' radius seems like a pretty valuable tactical advantage for a caster? DO you mean actual physical participation in melee? Like with a weapon as opposed to casting?
Efim 11-09-06, 03:19 PM	no of course not.. my chars strengh is 6.. i am focusing on magic only
The_Shaman 11-09-06, 03:29 PM	take under concideretion that a beguiler doesnt use all the benefits of the shadowcraft.. since he doesnt have the 2 highest imagis which he can turn into shadow spells... so all he is left with is the concealment +the increased shadow evocation/conjuration at lvl 5... is it worth it? First of all, concealment = no precision damage. No sneak attacks, no skirmish, no insightful strike, etc. You effectively have hide in plain sight, because when you have concealment you can always hide. You get that almost all the time, flat-footed or no. Oh, and a lot of attacks, rays, touch spells etc. don't hit you. I'd say that is by itself mean enough. Look at the Shadowcrafter from Underdark, it's a 10 lvl PrC that gets half as much goodies. Also, although you already have still and silent spells, you still/silence/extend them without raising casting time or spell level. Then you get shadow illusion, when your figments do damage (some, at least). If you have programmed or persistent image, this gets down right freaky. If not, you can use major image and it will be as effective as shadow conjuration, but of a lower level. Then you get powerful shadow magic to buff this up. Plus, all illusions - silent, stilled, and extended for no extra levels & casting time. Okay, not a perfect deal, but a beguiler is powerful as it is, as far as illusions are concerned. By the way, major image is of a slot that does not coincide with other shadow spells, so you can use it freely. With the powerful shadow magic, it will do up to 40% of the actual damage if they make the save. Now, you're an intelligence-maximizer, probably, and you have spell focus (illusion), as well as bonuses if the people are flat-footed. Just what kind of a save DC are we talking here :D ? The key words: disbelieve, and if. If they don't disbelieve it, it will hurt them a lot. The problem is how much will it hurt them if they do disbelieve... and shadow power improves that as well. The problem is, would a heightened major image allow you to use a higher level spells (but still lower than its heightened level). If yes, things can get insane :) The best part - since it's only a 5 level class, you can still get 1 more advanced learning at lvl 15, for some shadow insanity or whatever else you want.
Efim 11-10-06, 03:25 AM	The problem is, would a heightened major image allow you to use a higher level spells (but still lower than its heightened level). If yes, things can get insane :) thats a good question.. if anyone can confirm this matter i would be glad
NineInchNall 11-10-06, 01:17 PM	Gah! Read the handbook before asking questions. Yes, you can Heighten silent images to mimic higher level spells. Yes, Beguilers auto-qualify for Shadowcraft Mage with Heighten Spell due to legion of sentinels. Read the handbook. All questions will be answered. ;)
The_Shaman 11-10-06, 02:10 PM	Ok, so that should settle it. With heightening spells, you don't need SE/SC, so... overall... you're being mean. You already have +2 to DC when catching enemies off-guard, and will miss on 1 advanced learning (lvl 19) and overcoming SR automatically when they're flat-footed (although SP/GSP is just as good). Overall, I think it's a very good trade. P.S.: Which handbook is that, PHB II?
NineInchNall 11-10-06, 10:34 PM	The Shadowcraft Mage handbook. The one linked to in my signature. You know, this one (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=655556).
The_Shaman 11-11-06, 04:44 AM	It's actually a bit strange... Basically, if I get the argument there right, you take 100% of the damage / feel the full effect on a failed will save, but if you make your save, you can take 150% of the damage? I must say - cool :D I only wish DMs would allow this PrC for non-gnome illusionists, especially as they will have lower spell DCs - and more creatures will make that save.