Post/Author/DateTime	Post
painfool 12-07-07, 11:07 PM	(I thought about putting this in the Char Op forum, but the issue isn't really for an Op build but rather just a decent standard build....) I was having a discussion about various character choices with a friend and we came upon a question... Is a cleric/scout (assuming with equal or at least near-equal levels) a viable build? I mean, of course the most important thing is whether or not the character fits the player's concept and is fun to play... But do you think the two classes benefit from multiclassing together, or just totally bring each other down? Just looking for opinions, and thanks in advance.
Salla 12-07-07, 11:28 PM	Cleric's heavy armor works against the Scout's light armor and stealth (and evasion). Increases Multiple Ability Dependency (Cleric needs STR, WIS, CHA, Scout needs DEX and INT). Offhand, I'd say 'no' ...
Lord_Zeb 12-07-07, 11:56 PM	In general there is problems with any Multi-classing of Caster classes... Practiced spellcaster feat helps though. But character-wise, having an Nature Deity Cleric/Scout is a decent character role, maybe taking Earth and Water Domains or something. A Cleric of the god of hunters should very well be a hunter himself. Or why not a Scout/Druid? Fits even better. (Not to mention that the Druid often uses Light armors as well.)
DrakaraGM 12-08-07, 01:26 AM	I like the druid/scout concept a lot -- well, after saying "I know the druid will be giving up a boatload of power by delaying the heck out of his spellcasting advancement" -- as there is a bit more synergy going on between the two classes as far as non-casting goes. Might want to get an alternate class feature instead of animal companion from the druid side, or else plan on using the companion for additional scouting power rather than a melee aid after a while. But the amusement value of skirmish damage while in animal form definitely has some potential -- nothing stops skirmish from being usable with natural attacks, and if the DM allows it, you could use a flying form and take the Flyby Attack feat... :D You might have to practise in that form a lot to justify it, and it wouldn't be that useful when in normal humanoid form, but... And there are some druid spells that work well to improve a scout's abilities in the wild, and some other scout abilities that work fine while in animal form. As far as cleric/scout goes, it has less immediate synergy, but would not be too terrible -- but compare it with straight scout, not with straight cleric. What do the lower cleric levels provide that make up for losing the higher scout levels? Spells obviously, but some domain choices can be synergistic with scout abilities. Travel domain could be good for the freedome of movement effect (dang, got caught in the spider's web! no worries, call upon the deity for a bit of slippery work...) and movement spells (fly spell and skirmish?) -- Animal domain might be useful for scouting missions where you can ask the local wildlife (or your companion) questions to help fill in the gaps in the info you managed to gather for yourself -- even Plant domain could be useful for those surprise encounters with mobile plant life or for the always useful Entangle spell for when you don't manage to hide from a gang of gnolls or something. And then there is trapsense, which can help you find the traps, some of which you could then use clerical magic to avoid in one way or another. This sort of combination is more useful when the party is small enough that it is lacking a primary function character so someone needs to be able to fill two separate rolls. The character will fill neither role as well as a dedicated type for that purpose, but it could certainly do an adequate job at two roles. But back to the druid/scout...gotta love the ability to take the form of a small or medium animal that has the skill ranks of a decent scout but which may raise few or no suspicions in the right circumstances... The gnoll tribe has a bunch of hyenas wandering around their caves as guards? Take the form of a hyena, empathize with the guard hyenas, and walk around in plain sight, taking note of traps, fortifications, numbers and types of gnolls in various caverns, find out where the loot or prisoners or whatever are kept...
The_Shaman 12-08-07, 03:06 PM	Just looking for opinions, and thanks in advance. It's like a cleric-rogue; they are quite different and won't work well without a PrC. Generally, you'll be useful in more situations, but less useful than a pure cleric. Then again, nearly anything is less useful than a pure cleric, so there you go ;)
bkdubs123 12-08-07, 07:51 PM	A single level dip in Cleric just for the Domain powers (as already mentioned) can often be a great boon to a scout. I myself actually built a Cleric/Scout with plans to enter the Swiftblade PrC. It was going to be quite effective, and had proven to be quite a unique character. As for the question of whether or not its viable, the answer is sure, why not? Salla assumes that all clerics have to wear heavy armor because they can and that all clerics want to have high strength and charisma but neither of those are at all necessary. Sure you'll have to keep your wisdom to a level where you can at least cast your spells, but scouts like to have good wisdom anyway
Redmantle 12-08-07, 08:58 PM	Look at Seeker of the Misty Isle (Complete Divine). It advances spellcasting (8/10 iirc) and gives 6 skill points per level with a very scout/nature oriented feel to it. The class abilities aren't bad either. It's very elf-centric, but the fluff can be adapted with little difficulty. I created a Ranger/Cleric of Celestian/Seeker and it worked out nicely (although this was an NPC).
Sinfire Titan 12-08-07, 11:11 PM	TRAVEL DEVOTION!!!
WackyOne 12-09-07, 09:03 AM	Sinfire Titan has it down right - it's all about the devotion. I think that over in CO, in the Swift Hunter's Handbook, there's a build based on using the Travel Devotion to activate skirmish and allow for a full attack with a bow.
Oha 12-16-07, 06:54 AM	Ok, you want Scout and Cleric and almost equal level advancement. Then you should use, what you get from your low levels. I mean the low level spells of the cleric, for example Bulls Strength or Cats Grace, Divine Favour or the like. Another funny thing is Turn Undead. But what can you do with it, if your Charisma is not so high? Travel Devotion is a good thing. The extra move action granted is very nice with your Skirmish and it works for 1 minute. There are some funny feats in Complete Warrior, which are very useful for the purpose of combat. For example Divine Vigor or Divine Might (not sure about the name) power your combat ability and cost 1 Turn attempt. I think Cleric/Scout is a funny build, which can be powerful, but there are many disadvantages. It depends on levels and situation: If you start at level 2 for example it hurts, if you have BaB 0. If you can prepare for combat, it can be very, very powerful. Another idea could be Paladin4/Scout X It provides the better combat abilitys and Turn Undead.