Anybody know a non-spellcasting 3.5 ranger varient? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Anybody know a non-spellcasting 3.5 ranger varient? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ogiwan
10-01-05, 06:07 PM Greetings all. I'm playing an Elven ranger in a Dragonlance game, and at this point in time, there is no divine spellcasting. So, we decided to use a varient ranger, with no spellcasting; the one we used was from complete warrior. However, i think it's kinda....meh. Anybody know a better 3.5 ranger varient, with no spellcasting?

edit: Already looked at Complete Warrior; that's the meh varient.
Particle_Man
10-01-05, 08:10 PM Try the Scout from Complete Adventurer.
Kadasbrass
10-01-05, 09:38 PM The Complete Warrior has a non spellcasting varient for the Ranger and Paladin. Its in the back of the chapter with the new core classes.
Tenreo
10-01-05, 09:58 PM Reply. Yup. Complete Warrior. It's in there.

I find the nonspellcasting ranger less powerful than the standard ranger, but not woefully underpowered.
Ogiwan
10-01-05, 10:42 PM I already looked at the Complete Warrior varient, and i also thought it was rather meh. Which is why i'm asking for others.
caeruleus
10-02-05, 12:45 AM I also dislike the CW non-spellcasting ranger, mainly because replacing spells with spell-like abilities defeats the purpose.

So I came up with my own variant. I posted this on the Unearthed Arcana boards not long ago, got a bit of feedback, and modified what I had. Here's what I have now:

Get rid of spellcasting (obviously ;)), and add the following abilities:

4th level: Fast movement (as barbarian)
8th level: Trackless step (as druid)
12th level: Improved evasion (as monk)
16th level: Supreme combat style*
20th level: Combat style perfection**

*Improved Two-Weapon Defense or Improved Rapid Shot (both of these are feats in CW)

**Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting or Combat Archery (both of these are epic feats in CW--I figure epic feats are okay at 20th level, and besides, the Order of the Bow Initiate in CW gets Combat Archery, even though it doesn't go by that name)

Of course, if you want to replace any of these with other abilities, have fun and be creative. I avoided giving any supernatural abilities. They're not as bad as spell-like abilities (remember, we're trying to make a spell-less ranger), but only having extraordinary abilities fits the flavor best.

And while we're on the subject of a variant on the ranger, let me also say that I would recommend having the ranger's effective druid level for purposes of his animal companion be (ranger level - 3) rather than (ranger level / 2).

Peace, and happy gaming.
Gilean
10-02-05, 05:59 AM Yes (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=169174&page=1&pp=50), the Ultimate Ranger.
Shadowfax7
10-02-05, 10:11 AM IMO, replacing the Ranger's spell-levels w/feats and/or extraordinary abilities is the way to go.

However, I would limit it to 1 feat or extraordinary ability/spell lvel, thus 4.

I use a variant spell-less Ranger in my campaign which has the following:

1st level Nature Sense (as the Druid)
2nd level Wild Healing (as the Scout from Warcraft RPG, but any equivalent healing ability will do)
4th level Trackless Step (as the Druid, but a Ranger of higher level can track a Ranger of lower level at -10)
6th level Sylvan Grace (as the Ranger from EQ RPG, it halves the penalties to Hide and Move Silently while moving more than half-speed in natural surroundings)

Note that the levels indicated for the replacement abilities at 1st and 2nd level are dependant on those abilities being at those particular levels, but the levels in which the abilities at 4th and 6th are gained can be changed.

I feel that Fast Movement infringes on the Barbarian's abilities too much and Improved Evasion does the same to the Rogue's abilities.
Maraxus
10-02-05, 11:23 AM I think the CW variants are okay. They might be less powerful then a ranger with all his spells, but if you are playing with low building points and want good pysical stats, you might want to leave wisdom about 10 or 12 anyway and then that non-spellcasting version is good for you.
caeruleus
10-02-05, 12:12 PM 1st level Nature Sense (as the Druid)
2nd level Wild Healing (as the Scout from Warcraft RPG, but any equivalent healing ability will do)
4th level Trackless Step (as the Druid, but a Ranger of higher level can track a Ranger of lower level at -10)
6th level Sylvan Grace (as the Ranger from EQ RPG, it halves the penalties to Hide and Move Silently while moving more than half-speed in natural surroundings)

I don't think I like the idea of giving them abilities at lower levels, when spells come at later levels.

I feel that Fast Movement infringes on the Barbarian's abilities too much and Improved Evasion does the same to the Rogue's abilities.

Those are hardly the primary abilities of those classes. Would you say that the monk (who has improved evasion) infringes on the rogue's abilities? It's kinda like saying a ranger's good BAB infringes on the fighter.

Unearthed Arcana offers many suggestions for switching around the class abilities of different classes, giving you things like barbarians who cannot rage, but have the ranger's favored enemy and archery combat style. Or clerics without the ability to turn undead, but who can smite evil (or good), and have an aura of courage.
Shadowfax7
10-02-05, 02:05 PM I don't think I like the idea of giving them abilities at lower levels, when spells come at later levels.
I don't necessarily disagree. I do like your placement of where replacement abilities should go for a variant spell-less Ranger.

This was an example of what I use for my campaign for the OP. It fits fine in my campaign due to changes I have made w/the classes, but might not fit in other's campaigns.

Also I noted in my post that the abilities at 1st and 2nd level shouldn't be pushed to later levels due to their mechanics, but the abilities at 4th and 6th could easily.

Would you say that the monk (who has improved evasion) infringes on the rogue's abilities?
No, but I would say that the Rogue's ability to choose Improved Evasion at 10th level infringes on the Monk's Improved Evasion. However, IMO it is much more acceptable than providing the ranger w/Improved Evasion.

Please note that the fact that I wouldn't want the Ranger to gain Fast Movement or Improved Evasion is mostly a matter of preference, as those abilities I feel belong soley to other classes.
DarknessEternal
10-02-05, 02:43 PM There is always divine spellcasting in Dragonlance. Sometimes there are no gods, which meant there were no agents of said gods, but there was always divine spellcasters. They were just pretty uncommon and unexplained.

Also, Ranger spells don't have to be viewed as spells at all, thematically. What kind of magic is it for a Ranger to use Cure Light Wounds or Lion's Charge? None really, he just rubs some plant on a wound or moves faster than expected.
cloud5975
10-02-05, 07:58 PM Community 3E has a really good non-spellcasting ranger variant.

click here:http://www.community3e.com/dn/class/RANGER-variant.DOC-Microsoft Internet Exp
caeruleus
10-02-05, 11:39 PM This was an example of what I use for my campaign for the OP. It fits fine in my campaign due to changes I have made w/the classes, but might not fit in other's campaigns.

Even though I often find myself saying that balance is relative to a campaign, I sometimes forget it myself. Thanks for the reminder. :)

Please note that the fact that I wouldn't want the Ranger to gain Fast Movement or Improved Evasion is mostly a matter of preference, as those abilities I feel belong soley to other classes.

Fair enough. My being okay with giving those abilities to the ranger is also a matter of preference. (In fact, I just discovered today that the preferences of two of the people I play with is that they don't like my variant at all. Fine with me, I wasn't DMing today, and I rarely feel the need to ask a DM for reasons why s/he won't allow something.)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ogiwan 10-01-05, 06:07 PM	Greetings all. I'm playing an Elven ranger in a Dragonlance game, and at this point in time, there is no divine spellcasting. So, we decided to use a varient ranger, with no spellcasting; the one we used was from complete warrior. However, i think it's kinda....meh. Anybody know a better 3.5 ranger varient, with no spellcasting? edit: Already looked at Complete Warrior; that's the meh varient.
Particle_Man 10-01-05, 08:10 PM	Try the Scout from Complete Adventurer.
Kadasbrass 10-01-05, 09:38 PM	The Complete Warrior has a non spellcasting varient for the Ranger and Paladin. Its in the back of the chapter with the new core classes.
Tenreo 10-01-05, 09:58 PM	Reply. Yup. Complete Warrior. It's in there. I find the nonspellcasting ranger less powerful than the standard ranger, but not woefully underpowered.
Ogiwan 10-01-05, 10:42 PM	I already looked at the Complete Warrior varient, and i also thought it was rather meh. Which is why i'm asking for others.
caeruleus 10-02-05, 12:45 AM	I also dislike the CW non-spellcasting ranger, mainly because replacing spells with spell-like abilities defeats the purpose. So I came up with my own variant. I posted this on the Unearthed Arcana boards not long ago, got a bit of feedback, and modified what I had. Here's what I have now: Get rid of spellcasting (obviously ;)), and add the following abilities: 4th level: Fast movement (as barbarian) 8th level: Trackless step (as druid) 12th level: Improved evasion (as monk) 16th level: Supreme combat style* 20th level: Combat style perfection** Improved Two-Weapon Defense or Improved Rapid Shot (both of these are feats in CW) *Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting or Combat Archery (both of these are epic feats in CW--I figure epic feats are okay at 20th level, and besides, the Order of the Bow Initiate in CW gets Combat Archery, even though it doesn't go by that name) Of course, if you want to replace any of these with other abilities, have fun and be creative. I avoided giving any supernatural abilities. They're not as bad as spell-like abilities (remember, we're trying to make a spell-less ranger), but only having extraordinary abilities fits the flavor best. And while we're on the subject of a variant on the ranger, let me also say that I would recommend having the ranger's effective druid level for purposes of his animal companion be (ranger level - 3) rather than (ranger level / 2). Peace, and happy gaming.
Gilean 10-02-05, 05:59 AM	Yes (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=169174&page=1&pp=50), the Ultimate Ranger.
Shadowfax7 10-02-05, 10:11 AM	IMO, replacing the Ranger's spell-levels w/feats and/or extraordinary abilities is the way to go. However, I would limit it to 1 feat or extraordinary ability/spell lvel, thus 4. I use a variant spell-less Ranger in my campaign which has the following: 1st level Nature Sense (as the Druid) 2nd level Wild Healing (as the Scout from Warcraft RPG, but any equivalent healing ability will do) 4th level Trackless Step (as the Druid, but a Ranger of higher level can track a Ranger of lower level at -10) 6th level Sylvan Grace (as the Ranger from EQ RPG, it halves the penalties to Hide and Move Silently while moving more than half-speed in natural surroundings) Note that the levels indicated for the replacement abilities at 1st and 2nd level are dependant on those abilities being at those particular levels, but the levels in which the abilities at 4th and 6th are gained can be changed. I feel that Fast Movement infringes on the Barbarian's abilities too much and Improved Evasion does the same to the Rogue's abilities.
Maraxus 10-02-05, 11:23 AM	I think the CW variants are okay. They might be less powerful then a ranger with all his spells, but if you are playing with low building points and want good pysical stats, you might want to leave wisdom about 10 or 12 anyway and then that non-spellcasting version is good for you.
caeruleus 10-02-05, 12:12 PM	1st level Nature Sense (as the Druid) 2nd level Wild Healing (as the Scout from Warcraft RPG, but any equivalent healing ability will do) 4th level Trackless Step (as the Druid, but a Ranger of higher level can track a Ranger of lower level at -10) 6th level Sylvan Grace (as the Ranger from EQ RPG, it halves the penalties to Hide and Move Silently while moving more than half-speed in natural surroundings) I don't think I like the idea of giving them abilities at lower levels, when spells come at later levels. I feel that Fast Movement infringes on the Barbarian's abilities too much and Improved Evasion does the same to the Rogue's abilities. Those are hardly the primary abilities of those classes. Would you say that the monk (who has improved evasion) infringes on the rogue's abilities? It's kinda like saying a ranger's good BAB infringes on the fighter. Unearthed Arcana offers many suggestions for switching around the class abilities of different classes, giving you things like barbarians who cannot rage, but have the ranger's favored enemy and archery combat style. Or clerics without the ability to turn undead, but who can smite evil (or good), and have an aura of courage.
Shadowfax7 10-02-05, 02:05 PM	I don't think I like the idea of giving them abilities at lower levels, when spells come at later levels. I don't necessarily disagree. I do like your placement of where replacement abilities should go for a variant spell-less Ranger. This was an example of what I use for my campaign for the OP. It fits fine in my campaign due to changes I have made w/the classes, but might not fit in other's campaigns. Also I noted in my post that the abilities at 1st and 2nd level shouldn't be pushed to later levels due to their mechanics, but the abilities at 4th and 6th could easily. Would you say that the monk (who has improved evasion) infringes on the rogue's abilities? No, but I would say that the Rogue's ability to choose Improved Evasion at 10th level infringes on the Monk's Improved Evasion. However, IMO it is much more acceptable than providing the ranger w/Improved Evasion. Please note that the fact that I wouldn't want the Ranger to gain Fast Movement or Improved Evasion is mostly a matter of preference, as those abilities I feel belong soley to other classes.
DarknessEternal 10-02-05, 02:43 PM	There is always divine spellcasting in Dragonlance. Sometimes there are no gods, which meant there were no agents of said gods, but there was always divine spellcasters. They were just pretty uncommon and unexplained. Also, Ranger spells don't have to be viewed as spells at all, thematically. What kind of magic is it for a Ranger to use Cure Light Wounds or Lion's Charge? None really, he just rubs some plant on a wound or moves faster than expected.
cloud5975 10-02-05, 07:58 PM	Community 3E has a really good non-spellcasting ranger variant. click here:http://www.community3e.com/dn/class/RANGER-variant.DOC-Microsoft Internet Exp
caeruleus 10-02-05, 11:39 PM	This was an example of what I use for my campaign for the OP. It fits fine in my campaign due to changes I have made w/the classes, but might not fit in other's campaigns. Even though I often find myself saying that balance is relative to a campaign, I sometimes forget it myself. Thanks for the reminder. :) Please note that the fact that I wouldn't want the Ranger to gain Fast Movement or Improved Evasion is mostly a matter of preference, as those abilities I feel belong soley to other classes. Fair enough. My being okay with giving those abilities to the ranger is also a matter of preference. (In fact, I just discovered today that the preferences of two of the people I play with is that they don't like my variant at all. Fine with me, I wasn't DMing today, and I rarely feel the need to ask a DM for reasons why s/he won't allow something.)