Anyone Else Think "Barbarian" Is a Strange Concept for a Class? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Anyone Else Think "Barbarian" Is a Strange Concept for a Class? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dag Hammarskjold
08-17-05, 07:19 PM I've always thought it's kind of a strange idea to have a class called "Barbarian." As an example of the kind of consideration which makes me feel this way, think of this: If Grog uses his experience to learn how to be a better "Barbarian," why don't other characters have to use experience to learn how to be a better "Civilized Person"?

In other words, I would think "Barbarian" designates, not a class alongside "fighter" "monk" "wizard" and so on, but rather, simply a character background compatible with any of several other classes.

"So multi-class Barbarian with those other classes!" you might be thinking. But my point is that it seems to me it shouldn't even be possible for there to be a pure straight "Barbarian" character--that is, unless we want to allow for a pure straight "Civilized Person" character class. The latter is clearly silly, and I think this shows that the idea of a "Barbarian" class is pretty strange as well.

Here's what I'd do: Have "Barbarian" be a trait which *any* character could have, whatver their race or class. So you could be a rogue, or you could be a barbarian rogue. Similarly, you could be a sorcerer, or you could be a barbarian sorcerer. And so on.

Being a "Barbarian" variant of your class would mean something like the following:

1. You get powers similar to (and progessing similarly to) those currently granted to the Barbarian class
2. Your class powers (i.e rogue powers, sorcerer powers, or whatever) are gained as though you were one level less than you actually are. For example, a barbarian sorcerer doesn't get his first spells til level two, then gets his level two spells at level three, and so on. In game-mechanical terms, this is meant as a balancing factor. In story terms, this represents a barbarian's need to get used to the way things are done in society. Maybe he was a rogue of sorts in his own culture, but now that he's acting in the civilized world he needs to get used to, for example, how our locks work (as opposed to any he might have encountered before), how social interaction works in the game's main culture, and so on. So he's kind of on a delayed learning curve. But that's okay--he's got his Rage power to back him up! :)
3. You get the next level of die for your hitpoints--a d4 class gets d6 instead, d6 gets d8 instead, and so on.
4. You suffer from several weaknesses--illiteracy, for one thing, as well as several deficits to saving throws. This again is meant to balance the concept, and in story terms, this should represent the classic idea that Barbarians are a little afraid of magic, are on unsure footing when it comes to interacting with people, and so on.
5. A Barbarian can, over time, become civilized if he so chooses. This happens as follows. When gaining a level, he may divest himself of one Barbarian weakness and one Barbarian power. On a level progression in which he removes his final Barbarian power, even if he had weaknesses left over, he becomes fully civilized, losing all weaknesses. On the *next* level after this, he gains his class abilities as though he had gained *two* levels--"catching up" so to speak for the initial delay in class ability gains. (I haven't worked through how exactly this will work with multi-classing yet as I'm typing this on the fly but I think something should work.)

Also, there would be special rules in the case of some classes. I don't know how the following works out balance-wise, but something like it seems necessitated story-wise:

A. Barbarian Monks and Barbarian Paladins must supress their Barbarian Powers, as their powers are related to their Barbarian non-Lawful background and these two classes both require adherence to Law. If a Barbarian of either of these two classes uses a Barbarian power, he loses (some or all?) of the powers associated with that class and can no longer level up in it.
B. Barbarians can't be wizards unless they lose their illiteracy weakness (and therefore some associated Barbarian strength.)
C. The idea of a Barbarian Cleric is a little wierd, but not completely wierd. I would say a Barbarian Cleric has limits as to which domains he can focus in, the purpose of these limits being to make the Barbarian "Cleric" sort of either a Barbarian "Sage" like character or alternatively a Barbarian "Medicine Man" like character. These two concepts are, IMO, more like the concept of a "Cleric" than that of a "Druid."

Anyway, all thoughts are appreciated. Let's help them write DnD4E! :D

(Actually, I'm almost perfectly happy with 3E. I don't seriously mean to suggest revision is really needed. These are just some of my more idle thoughts on the subject.)

Also, one more thing: This idea leads me to another one. There could be various "social class" traits available at character creation, each with associated strengths and weaknesses, and each being able to be lost one step at a time if a person so chooses as his character progresses. There would be something like the following:

Barbarians
Nobility
Peasantry
Hermits
Middle Class (?)

(Don't know exactly what to call this last one--it would just be the "normal" type, no particular strengths or weaknesses. It's what adventurers become if they choose to lose the traits associated with the other four classes. All hail the Bourgeosie! (sp?))

Just an idea...

-Kris
Manyfist
08-17-05, 07:35 PM Just call them Berserker and be done with it. Rampager, Rager, Berserker all fit, I agree Barbarian is a stupid name. Then again they named Wizard/Sorcerer which are the same thing. ;) Then they have a Male Witch? :cool:
FlameLover
08-17-05, 08:04 PM 'Civilized Person'

There already is, the Aristocrat. I have no problem with the Barbarian. It shows the instincts/tactics someone would use if they were less civilized. It's odd to just 'pick up a few levels' but it's no stranger than just 'picking up a few levels' of Cleric or Wizard without some in-game rationale.
Dag Hammarskjold
08-17-05, 08:07 PM What are the stats on the Aristocrat?

Also, BTW, can you please tell me where the search function is on these boards? I can't find it, even w/ my browser's "find" feature...

-Kris
Edymnion
08-17-05, 08:25 PM What are the stats on the Aristocrat?In the DMG, they're an NPC class.
Also, BTW, can you please tell me where the search function is on these boards?The boards here are larger than just about any other board system that uses the same software. Because of that, the Search has been overwhelmed, and they have been trying to fix it. There is a thread on the metaboard all about it, check it out.

As for the Barbarian, yeah, the concept doesn't deserve to be in the PHB, its WAY too specific (much like the Paladin and the Monk). Drop the illiteracy bit, throw every last shred of flavor text from it in the trash, and remake it as a Rager/Beserker/Whatever.
FlameLover
08-17-05, 08:29 PM The Aristocrat is an NPC class in the DMG that could be taken by PCs (Dunno why you would though). The Barbarian is the opposite but is a main PC class since most D&D games have alot of fighting. If yours doesn't and has more RP the Aristocract with some adjustments would be a perfectly viable character (Maybe).

And the search feature is currently down for repairs ;)

EDIT: I was beaten! Anyway I think I'll just point out that what I'm doing is making all of the core classes have plenty of room to specialize. Like one specialist Wizard is gonna be *very* different from another specialist of a different school but Monks, Paladins, Brbs, etc. are all too specific so I'm broadening them alittle. The ways I am doing that are allwing everyone to have a 'Guardian Spirit' type thing and modifying the classes to be broader.

The Brb for example needs to choose a totem, similar to a Cleric domain that grants him abilities inplace of some of the current ones (not my idea btw so if you came up with it just say).

For the Paladin I made it a Crusader and can be a Crusader of Good or Evil (and has more specialization options).

The Monk was tricky but I decided the monk should choose at level 1 a 'style' which reflects there training (again making them different).

So the trick with some of the main classes is to make them alot free-er. Spell casters are already free enough with spell choice and pets so you just need to focus on the martial characters mainly. The Ranger has the right idea with spells, animal companion and fighting style but I feal it needs just a little more.

BTW the way I do guardian spirits is you take a Feat to get one and it then levels with you (maybe half the power of an animal companion) so it means people without a companion can feel like they have one but without being overpowered.
Moon-Lancer
08-17-05, 08:33 PM conan anyone?

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0783225768.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
Tony Vargas
08-17-05, 10:01 PM The Aristocrat is an NPC class in the DMG that could be taken by PCs (Dunno why you would though). Actually, it's not /that/ bad a class. A little weak, but it offers a nice package of bennies. You get: all armor & martial weapon proficiencies, an extensive skill list, 4 skill points, good WILL saves, and high starting wealth (if you want to play a 'knight in shinning armor' from level 1, aristocrat is about the only option). It also grants you a meaningful social status, when most PC classes don't - or even make you seem decidedly dodgy.
Nephlite
08-17-05, 10:19 PM Actually, it's not /that/ bad a class. A little weak, but it offers a nice package of bennies. You get: all armor & martial weapon proficiencies, an extensive skill list, 4 skill points, good WILL saves, and high starting wealth (if you want to play a 'knight in shinning armor' from level 1, aristocrat is about the only option). It also grants you a meaningful social status, when most PC classes don't - or even make you seem decidedly dodgy.

I find Aristocrats are better at a level higher than 1. They get double strarting gold.
So if you start at level 6 adventurer they get double level 6 wealth.

I kinda see them as a get rich quick scheme lol. They are pretty decent fighters too.

My Battlerager class is similar to a Barbarian but gets bonus to damage/hit, not Str. (I likew to advertise)

Battlerager
This is a warrior who is in tune with his animalistic side and, during combat, can achieve an ecstatic state of mind that will enable him to fight longer, harder and more savagely than any human has a right to. Battleragers tend to be barbarian-like in nature, but not always. Sometimes it is a conscious choice that a warrior in training makes. Regardless, opponents on the battlefield will be unsettled with they see the savage and inhuman elements of the Battlerager’s personality.
Battleragers
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d10.

Class Skills
The Battleragers’s skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spot (wis), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Table: The Battlerager
Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special
1st +1 +2 +0 +0 Enraged 1/day
2nd +2 +3 +0 +0
3rd +3 +3 +1 +1
4th +4 +4 +1 +1 Enraged 2/day, Uncanny dodge
5th +5 +4 +1 +1
6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +2
7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +2 Improved Uncanny Dodge
8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +2 Enraged 3/day
9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +3
10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +3 Reduced breathe, Danger Sense 1/day
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +3
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +4 Enraged 4/day
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +4
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +4 Scent, Toughness
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +5 Danger Sense 2/day
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +5 Enraged 5/day.
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +6 Enraged with no issues
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +6
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +6 Enraged 6/day

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the battlerager.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A battlerager is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, medium, and light) and shields (including tower shields).
Enraged (Ex): At level 1, a Battlerager can achieve an ecstatic state of mind that will enable him to fight longer, harder and more savagely than any human has a right. In this Enraged state, a battlerager has +3 to hit, +3 damage, and + 3 dodge bonus AC. They also have 5 + 5/2 levels in temporary hps. Temporary hps are lost first. Duration 3 rounds + Con + 1 /5 level. A Battlerager can use this once/4 levels per day (Up to 6 uses at level 20). The Battlerager at this time is immune to charm, hold, fear, level drain, maze, imprisonment, stun, and sleep. You can voluntarily end Enrage prematurely.
After a Enraged State: Becomes exhausted after enraging. While he's exhausted , he receives -6 to str/Dex. This effectively gives him -3 hit/dam and penalty of 3 to AC. Duration of this state is 1 minute + 1 minute ever 5 rounds enraged. Unlike normal exhaustion, you don’t become fatigued after it is over. Entering a enrage takes no time itself, but a Battle Rager can do it only during his action, not in response to someone else's action. You may Enrage while exhausted or fatigued possibly nullifying some of the penalties.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 4th level, a Battlerager retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. If a Battlerager already has uncanny dodge from a different class, he automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below) instead
Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 7th level and higher, a Battlerager can no longer be flanked. This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the Battlerager by flanking him, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target has Battlerager levels. If a character already has uncanny dodge (see above) from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum level a rogue must be to flank the character
Danger Sense (Ex): At level 10, a Battlerager gains the ability to have double the chance to act faster in a battle. 1/day, he may reroll initiative. This increases to 2/day at level 15.
Reduced breathe (Ex): At level 10, a Battlerager is no longer exhausted at the end of being enraged, instead they are fatigued. Duration of this state is 1 minute + 1 minute ever 5 rounds enraged. The penalties for fatigued are -2 Str, -2 Dex, no charge/run.
Scent (Ex): At level 14, a Battlerager gains scent (see page 314 Monster Manual for details)
Toughness: At level 13, as a bonus feat the Battlerager gains toughness adding +3 hps.
Enraged with no issues (Ex): At level 18, a Battlerager no longer is even fatigued after being enraged

I personally think my BattleRager is great. Enrage never gets any stronger (except in temporary hps), but the penalties do get weaker afterward.

Sure, Enrage doesn't mesh with Pa as much as Rage does but I don't want to steal Barbs role. (Usually PA and Rage are seen as Barbs role)
Edymnion
08-17-05, 10:36 PM I find Aristocrats are better at a level higher than 1. They get double strarting gold.
So if you start at level 6 adventurer they get double level 6 wealth.Pretty sure that doesn't work, as starting gold is what you get at lvl 1.
Nephlite
08-17-05, 10:50 PM Pretty sure that doesn't work, as starting gold is what you get at lvl 1.
MY DM agreed with my interpretation.

If you start at a level higher than one; than your starting gold is higher too.

That makes sense to me at least.
Kolo
08-17-05, 11:14 PM If there are two classes I feel should really have been better served as being prestige classes, it's paladin and barbarian. Seriously, the two are basically fighter variants with bells and whistles attached. Especially the paladin, but the barbarian too, 'cause no one is going to tell me that barbarians are the norm even for nomadic hunter/gatherer tribes. These guys may be champions of such tribes, but not the norm. At most, the rest are NPC warriors or really angry fighters who haven't qualified yet for Barbarian.

Not that my opinion changes anything :P
DM Zoc
08-17-05, 11:25 PM Barbarian is only silly as a class if you think about it. Classes are supposed to be archetypes, and this class fits that archetype very well.
Ribking
08-18-05, 12:02 AM It's just a title. As someone said, change the name and it fixes your "problem" with the Barbarian. Then maybe you could also adjust your suggestions and apply them to your world(s). Choose to be a "Furor" or even a "Barbarian Furor".
Yanagita Kunio
08-18-05, 12:41 AM The Barbarian build seems to meld three ideas:

--descriptions of warriors would go into a trance when fighting: the berserk being the most famous, but there's also the hwarang of Korea, the Nizaris of the Middle East, and a bunch of others.
--Conan.
--non-professional combatants from forager and pastoralist societies, where fighting is one of many activities that may be required for survival.

All of which are interesting...but not necessarily together at the same time.

The "uncivilized" aspect of the class...I just don't like the word uncivilized; it smacks of a very Victorian worldview, where low tech is equated to less intellectually developed, more insular, superstitiousness, etc., etc. All of these ideas are in the flavor text; which is why I ignore it.

I also dump the illiteracy feature because it amounts to legislating a character's social background and seems only to exist to drive home the "primitive" markers of the class.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dag Hammarskjold 08-17-05, 07:19 PM	I've always thought it's kind of a strange idea to have a class called "Barbarian." As an example of the kind of consideration which makes me feel this way, think of this: If Grog uses his experience to learn how to be a better "Barbarian," why don't other characters have to use experience to learn how to be a better "Civilized Person"? In other words, I would think "Barbarian" designates, not a class alongside "fighter" "monk" "wizard" and so on, but rather, simply a character background compatible with any of several other classes. "So multi-class Barbarian with those other classes!" you might be thinking. But my point is that it seems to me it shouldn't even be possible for there to be a pure straight "Barbarian" character--that is, unless we want to allow for a pure straight "Civilized Person" character class. The latter is clearly silly, and I think this shows that the idea of a "Barbarian" class is pretty strange as well. Here's what I'd do: Have "Barbarian" be a trait which any character could have, whatver their race or class. So you could be a rogue, or you could be a barbarian rogue. Similarly, you could be a sorcerer, or you could be a barbarian sorcerer. And so on. Being a "Barbarian" variant of your class would mean something like the following: 1. You get powers similar to (and progessing similarly to) those currently granted to the Barbarian class 2. Your class powers (i.e rogue powers, sorcerer powers, or whatever) are gained as though you were one level less than you actually are. For example, a barbarian sorcerer doesn't get his first spells til level two, then gets his level two spells at level three, and so on. In game-mechanical terms, this is meant as a balancing factor. In story terms, this represents a barbarian's need to get used to the way things are done in society. Maybe he was a rogue of sorts in his own culture, but now that he's acting in the civilized world he needs to get used to, for example, how our locks work (as opposed to any he might have encountered before), how social interaction works in the game's main culture, and so on. So he's kind of on a delayed learning curve. But that's okay--he's got his Rage power to back him up! :) 3. You get the next level of die for your hitpoints--a d4 class gets d6 instead, d6 gets d8 instead, and so on. 4. You suffer from several weaknesses--illiteracy, for one thing, as well as several deficits to saving throws. This again is meant to balance the concept, and in story terms, this should represent the classic idea that Barbarians are a little afraid of magic, are on unsure footing when it comes to interacting with people, and so on. 5. A Barbarian can, over time, become civilized if he so chooses. This happens as follows. When gaining a level, he may divest himself of one Barbarian weakness and one Barbarian power. On a level progression in which he removes his final Barbarian power, even if he had weaknesses left over, he becomes fully civilized, losing all weaknesses. On the next level after this, he gains his class abilities as though he had gained two levels--"catching up" so to speak for the initial delay in class ability gains. (I haven't worked through how exactly this will work with multi-classing yet as I'm typing this on the fly but I think something should work.) Also, there would be special rules in the case of some classes. I don't know how the following works out balance-wise, but something like it seems necessitated story-wise: A. Barbarian Monks and Barbarian Paladins must supress their Barbarian Powers, as their powers are related to their Barbarian non-Lawful background and these two classes both require adherence to Law. If a Barbarian of either of these two classes uses a Barbarian power, he loses (some or all?) of the powers associated with that class and can no longer level up in it. B. Barbarians can't be wizards unless they lose their illiteracy weakness (and therefore some associated Barbarian strength.) C. The idea of a Barbarian Cleric is a little wierd, but not completely wierd. I would say a Barbarian Cleric has limits as to which domains he can focus in, the purpose of these limits being to make the Barbarian "Cleric" sort of either a Barbarian "Sage" like character or alternatively a Barbarian "Medicine Man" like character. These two concepts are, IMO, more like the concept of a "Cleric" than that of a "Druid." Anyway, all thoughts are appreciated. Let's help them write DnD4E! :D (Actually, I'm almost perfectly happy with 3E. I don't seriously mean to suggest revision is really needed. These are just some of my more idle thoughts on the subject.) Also, one more thing: This idea leads me to another one. There could be various "social class" traits available at character creation, each with associated strengths and weaknesses, and each being able to be lost one step at a time if a person so chooses as his character progresses. There would be something like the following: Barbarians Nobility Peasantry Hermits Middle Class (?) (Don't know exactly what to call this last one--it would just be the "normal" type, no particular strengths or weaknesses. It's what adventurers become if they choose to lose the traits associated with the other four classes. All hail the Bourgeosie! (sp?)) Just an idea... -Kris
Manyfist 08-17-05, 07:35 PM	Just call them Berserker and be done with it. Rampager, Rager, Berserker all fit, I agree Barbarian is a stupid name. Then again they named Wizard/Sorcerer which are the same thing. ;) Then they have a Male Witch? :cool:
FlameLover 08-17-05, 08:04 PM	'Civilized Person' There already is, the Aristocrat. I have no problem with the Barbarian. It shows the instincts/tactics someone would use if they were less civilized. It's odd to just 'pick up a few levels' but it's no stranger than just 'picking up a few levels' of Cleric or Wizard without some in-game rationale.
Dag Hammarskjold 08-17-05, 08:07 PM	What are the stats on the Aristocrat? Also, BTW, can you please tell me where the search function is on these boards? I can't find it, even w/ my browser's "find" feature... -Kris
Edymnion 08-17-05, 08:25 PM	What are the stats on the Aristocrat?In the DMG, they're an NPC class. Also, BTW, can you please tell me where the search function is on these boards?The boards here are larger than just about any other board system that uses the same software. Because of that, the Search has been overwhelmed, and they have been trying to fix it. There is a thread on the metaboard all about it, check it out. As for the Barbarian, yeah, the concept doesn't deserve to be in the PHB, its WAY too specific (much like the Paladin and the Monk). Drop the illiteracy bit, throw every last shred of flavor text from it in the trash, and remake it as a Rager/Beserker/Whatever.
FlameLover 08-17-05, 08:29 PM	The Aristocrat is an NPC class in the DMG that could be taken by PCs (Dunno why you would though). The Barbarian is the opposite but is a main PC class since most D&D games have alot of fighting. If yours doesn't and has more RP the Aristocract with some adjustments would be a perfectly viable character (Maybe). And the search feature is currently down for repairs ;) EDIT: I was beaten! Anyway I think I'll just point out that what I'm doing is making all of the core classes have plenty of room to specialize. Like one specialist Wizard is gonna be very different from another specialist of a different school but Monks, Paladins, Brbs, etc. are all too specific so I'm broadening them alittle. The ways I am doing that are allwing everyone to have a 'Guardian Spirit' type thing and modifying the classes to be broader. The Brb for example needs to choose a totem, similar to a Cleric domain that grants him abilities inplace of some of the current ones (not my idea btw so if you came up with it just say). For the Paladin I made it a Crusader and can be a Crusader of Good or Evil (and has more specialization options). The Monk was tricky but I decided the monk should choose at level 1 a 'style' which reflects there training (again making them different). So the trick with some of the main classes is to make them alot free-er. Spell casters are already free enough with spell choice and pets so you just need to focus on the martial characters mainly. The Ranger has the right idea with spells, animal companion and fighting style but I feal it needs just a little more. BTW the way I do guardian spirits is you take a Feat to get one and it then levels with you (maybe half the power of an animal companion) so it means people without a companion can feel like they have one but without being overpowered.
Moon-Lancer 08-17-05, 08:33 PM	conan anyone? http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0783225768.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
Tony Vargas 08-17-05, 10:01 PM	The Aristocrat is an NPC class in the DMG that could be taken by PCs (Dunno why you would though). Actually, it's not /that/ bad a class. A little weak, but it offers a nice package of bennies. You get: all armor & martial weapon proficiencies, an extensive skill list, 4 skill points, good WILL saves, and high starting wealth (if you want to play a 'knight in shinning armor' from level 1, aristocrat is about the only option). It also grants you a meaningful social status, when most PC classes don't - or even make you seem decidedly dodgy.
Nephlite 08-17-05, 10:19 PM	Actually, it's not /that/ bad a class. A little weak, but it offers a nice package of bennies. You get: all armor & martial weapon proficiencies, an extensive skill list, 4 skill points, good WILL saves, and high starting wealth (if you want to play a 'knight in shinning armor' from level 1, aristocrat is about the only option). It also grants you a meaningful social status, when most PC classes don't - or even make you seem decidedly dodgy. I find Aristocrats are better at a level higher than 1. They get double strarting gold. So if you start at level 6 adventurer they get double level 6 wealth. I kinda see them as a get rich quick scheme lol. They are pretty decent fighters too. My Battlerager class is similar to a Barbarian but gets bonus to damage/hit, not Str. (I likew to advertise) Battlerager This is a warrior who is in tune with his animalistic side and, during combat, can achieve an ecstatic state of mind that will enable him to fight longer, harder and more savagely than any human has a right to. Battleragers tend to be barbarian-like in nature, but not always. Sometimes it is a conscious choice that a warrior in training makes. Regardless, opponents on the battlefield will be unsettled with they see the savage and inhuman elements of the Battlerager’s personality. Battleragers Alignment: Any. Hit Die: d10. Class Skills The Battleragers’s skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spot (wis), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str). Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier. Table: The Battlerager Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special 1st +1 +2 +0 +0 Enraged 1/day 2nd +2 +3 +0 +0 3rd +3 +3 +1 +1 4th +4 +4 +1 +1 Enraged 2/day, Uncanny dodge 5th +5 +4 +1 +1 6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +2 7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +2 Improved Uncanny Dodge 8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +2 Enraged 3/day 9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +3 10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +3 Reduced breathe, Danger Sense 1/day 11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +3 12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +4 Enraged 4/day 13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +4 14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +4 Scent, Toughness 15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +5 Danger Sense 2/day 16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +5 Enraged 5/day. 17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5 18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +6 Enraged with no issues 19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +6 20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +6 Enraged 6/day Class Features All of the following are class features of the battlerager. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A battlerager is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, medium, and light) and shields (including tower shields). Enraged (Ex): At level 1, a Battlerager can achieve an ecstatic state of mind that will enable him to fight longer, harder and more savagely than any human has a right. In this Enraged state, a battlerager has +3 to hit, +3 damage, and + 3 dodge bonus AC. They also have 5 + 5/2 levels in temporary hps. Temporary hps are lost first. Duration 3 rounds + Con + 1 /5 level. A Battlerager can use this once/4 levels per day (Up to 6 uses at level 20). The Battlerager at this time is immune to charm, hold, fear, level drain, maze, imprisonment, stun, and sleep. You can voluntarily end Enrage prematurely. After a Enraged State: Becomes exhausted after enraging. While he's exhausted , he receives -6 to str/Dex. This effectively gives him -3 hit/dam and penalty of 3 to AC. Duration of this state is 1 minute + 1 minute ever 5 rounds enraged. Unlike normal exhaustion, you don’t become fatigued after it is over. Entering a enrage takes no time itself, but a Battle Rager can do it only during his action, not in response to someone else's action. You may Enrage while exhausted or fatigued possibly nullifying some of the penalties. Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 4th level, a Battlerager retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. If a Battlerager already has uncanny dodge from a different class, he automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below) instead Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 7th level and higher, a Battlerager can no longer be flanked. This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the Battlerager by flanking him, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target has Battlerager levels. If a character already has uncanny dodge (see above) from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum level a rogue must be to flank the character Danger Sense (Ex): At level 10, a Battlerager gains the ability to have double the chance to act faster in a battle. 1/day, he may reroll initiative. This increases to 2/day at level 15. Reduced breathe (Ex): At level 10, a Battlerager is no longer exhausted at the end of being enraged, instead they are fatigued. Duration of this state is 1 minute + 1 minute ever 5 rounds enraged. The penalties for fatigued are -2 Str, -2 Dex, no charge/run. Scent (Ex): At level 14, a Battlerager gains scent (see page 314 Monster Manual for details) Toughness: At level 13, as a bonus feat the Battlerager gains toughness adding +3 hps. Enraged with no issues (Ex): At level 18, a Battlerager no longer is even fatigued after being enraged I personally think my BattleRager is great. Enrage never gets any stronger (except in temporary hps), but the penalties do get weaker afterward. Sure, Enrage doesn't mesh with Pa as much as Rage does but I don't want to steal Barbs role. (Usually PA and Rage are seen as Barbs role)
Edymnion 08-17-05, 10:36 PM	I find Aristocrats are better at a level higher than 1. They get double strarting gold. So if you start at level 6 adventurer they get double level 6 wealth.Pretty sure that doesn't work, as starting gold is what you get at lvl 1.
Nephlite 08-17-05, 10:50 PM	Pretty sure that doesn't work, as starting gold is what you get at lvl 1. MY DM agreed with my interpretation. If you start at a level higher than one; than your starting gold is higher too. That makes sense to me at least.
Kolo 08-17-05, 11:14 PM	If there are two classes I feel should really have been better served as being prestige classes, it's paladin and barbarian. Seriously, the two are basically fighter variants with bells and whistles attached. Especially the paladin, but the barbarian too, 'cause no one is going to tell me that barbarians are the norm even for nomadic hunter/gatherer tribes. These guys may be champions of such tribes, but not the norm. At most, the rest are NPC warriors or really angry fighters who haven't qualified yet for Barbarian. Not that my opinion changes anything :P
DM Zoc 08-17-05, 11:25 PM	Barbarian is only silly as a class if you think about it. Classes are supposed to be archetypes, and this class fits that archetype very well.
Ribking 08-18-05, 12:02 AM	It's just a title. As someone said, change the name and it fixes your "problem" with the Barbarian. Then maybe you could also adjust your suggestions and apply them to your world(s). Choose to be a "Furor" or even a "Barbarian Furor".
Yanagita Kunio 08-18-05, 12:41 AM	The Barbarian build seems to meld three ideas: --descriptions of warriors would go into a trance when fighting: the berserk being the most famous, but there's also the hwarang of Korea, the Nizaris of the Middle East, and a bunch of others. --Conan. --non-professional combatants from forager and pastoralist societies, where fighting is one of many activities that may be required for survival. All of which are interesting...but not necessarily together at the same time. The "uncivilized" aspect of the class...I just don't like the word uncivilized; it smacks of a very Victorian worldview, where low tech is equated to less intellectually developed, more insular, superstitiousness, etc., etc. All of these ideas are in the flavor text; which is why I ignore it. I also dump the illiteracy feature because it amounts to legislating a character's social background and seems only to exist to drive home the "primitive" markers of the class.